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Inflammation, vegetables, and neolithic foods.

by (268)
Updated about 18 hours ago
Created April 29, 2012 at 6:53 PM

Hello Paleohacks!

So last night I was kinda in a funk and decided what the hell, i'm going to order a pizza. Ended up going with my favorite (it's been yearsssss since i've touched wheat and such "evil" processed food (really). Went with my old favorite - sausage/pep/green peppers/red onions. Ate the whole damn thing in one sitting and all I can say is WOW - I felt amazing and looked great. Like seriously great. Better than I do day to day eating my "perfect" diet. Basically ate a huge load of neolithic carbs, vegetable/meat O-6, and run of the mill dairy.

Now this certainly gave me a real WTF moment and I have come to a bit of a crossroad and not sure where to turn.

Please help me out!

My day to day diet is 2 large meals consisting of the following: Small portion white rice/potatoes, a significant portion of various vegetables, very gelatinous bone broth (with very broken down soft bones that I also eat for calcium), beef/lamb/goat/pork (100% grass fed or pastured in the case of pork), shellfish (mussels and oysters normally) and tallow/lard/avocado/olive oils. Now this diet seems from what I can gather about traditional diet pretty darn healthy and similar to my traditional European roots.

I also have found that I can't function well without at least some starch (500+ cal). If I don't have starch I find I can't focus, have little motivation and my work suffers.

Now here's the weird part..

Vegetables in any significant quantity cause me some pretty clear inflammation. I think any soluble/cellulose fiber in general gives me inflammation. I used to suffer my acne however I can eliminate it fully by consuming liver/oysters and enough starch. Vegetables alone don't cause acne but it causes my skin to become quite blotchy and sensitive.. however if I consume dairy and vegetables - dairy (raw milk) will cause my skin to become slightly oily and combine that with the inflammation - that's the recipe for acne.

If I avoid vegetables I notice a stark drop in inflammation - however it feels like a double edged sword as I'm not sure if I meet my calcium needs (every other nutrient is in excess). I currently eat softened stew bones (from a very very hiquality source) but I dont know how bio-available it would be.

Little more information:

I don't do well on fruits as a source of carbs - not inflammatory but not the same boost of energy and motivation that I get from starch.

Sweet potatoes seem to be an atomic bomb of inflammation.

I find I need a fair amount of protein I usually get around 100-120g per day from animal source.

I'm not missing any nutrients so that's certainly not the issue.

Probiotics don't help and depending on my vegetable intake make things worse.

====================================================================

TL; DR;

Has anyone else had a similar experience with vegetables intake and inflammation?

Eating neolithic poison made me feel and look good.

Are bones good enough for calcium?

Does anyone else eat a diet primarily of starch and animal products?

EDIT:

Should I avoid vegetables if they don't make me feel/look good?

EDIT 2:

Do you think some people work better on a high starch diet (1000+ cals). I don't do a great deal of exercise but I do a lot of mental work every day. At least 10hr of complex thought/learning.

Ede167512744dbbeb0869761759474e7
5 · March 29, 2014 at 11:46 PM

I know this post is really old, but would you mind giving an update? I feel like I'm going through the same thing - going to my parents' house and eating their food always leaves me feeling much better than my usual paleo diet. Do you think it's the additional calories or some micronutrient you got with the pizza that had you feeling so much better? Thanks!

19ff515e8ec02d95e8f2cf68c3ec1373
1187 · August 10, 2012 at 3:02 AM

Nettle tea as a source of calcium?

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645
4413 · August 10, 2012 at 2:12 AM

I don't think Gluten and Casein contain opiates as much as when a person has a Leaky Gut and these molecules get into the blood stream they can cross the blood brain barrier and at that point are similar in structure to opiates.... People without a totally healthy gut and ability to digest food can handle these substances and do not have a problem with with.I am NOT saying that gluten is healthy or should be eaten. It used to cause me a lot of problems and it doens't anymore, although I rarely if ever eat it.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645
4413 · August 10, 2012 at 2:08 AM

I agree.. I think a lot of the people answering here need HCL/Betaine and or digestive enzymes and also need to look at healing there Leaky Gut.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645
4413 · August 10, 2012 at 2:05 AM

perhaps you want to look into digestive enzymes and/or HCL curing what may be a Leaky Gut

59d367d77f4082717bade07508624db8
1198 · May 08, 2012 at 11:52 PM

It's been a couple weeks since you posted this, how is the the new eating going?

4dda29dc4fbada49bd68a6fbd76bf40c
268 · May 01, 2012 at 10:13 PM

You may not have any noticeable issues. You can always do a simple test with HCL. Take a tablet with a meal.. if you notice burning, that's not your issue.

59d367d77f4082717bade07508624db8
1198 · May 01, 2012 at 4:27 AM

Hmm, when I saw Kresser he suggested HCI, but I've never had any digestive issues, at all, ever. It's kind of weird, and kind of confounding when trying to figure out what's going on with my body.

59d367d77f4082717bade07508624db8
1198 · May 01, 2012 at 4:27 AM

Hmm, I've never had any digestive issues, almost ever. When I saw Kresser he suggested HCI, but I've never had any digestive issues, at all, ever. It's kind of weird, and kind of confounding when trying to figure out what's going on with my body.

4dda29dc4fbada49bd68a6fbd76bf40c
268 · May 01, 2012 at 4:03 AM

Good luck :) Let me know how it works out.

E68bdbd83e45fd5be130e393ace9c9a9
2048 · May 01, 2012 at 3:10 AM

I agree betaine HCl is important... I didn't buy more when I ran out a month ago, but I just started taking it again last week after my digestion was the worst it's ever been. I'm going to do a few weeks of bone broth, canned pumpkin, gelatin, squash, rice, yams, liver - just stuff that's really easy to digest. We'll see how it goes.

4dda29dc4fbada49bd68a6fbd76bf40c
268 · May 01, 2012 at 2:42 AM

To tide yourself over while you get everything sorted you might want to give betaine HCl w/pepsin (stomach acid) supplementation a go. I notice relief when I take it and I take less as my carb intake increases.

E68bdbd83e45fd5be130e393ace9c9a9
2048 · May 01, 2012 at 2:37 AM

@Nikolas, I didn't know stomach acid production was linked to thyroid...very interesting. Glad the potatoes helped. @StreakofLean, why do you feel you need non-food Vitamin A? I just eat liver.... Sorry to hear you had panic attacks but glad I'm not the only one!

4dda29dc4fbada49bd68a6fbd76bf40c
268 · May 01, 2012 at 2:21 AM

Part 2: I just finished my dinner.. decided to take a chance and include a moderate amount of vegetables but include 2 pounds of peeled white potatoes with my meal.. and all I can say is it made a huge difference - not 100% but 90% better than normal. The thyroid (as well as vitamin D) has a direct influence on the release of stomach acid ( which prevents fermentation in the stomach) -- and stomach acid triggers the pancreas to dish out digestive enzymes to break that food down.. So for whatever reason I need a lot more glucose to complete that operation than others..

4dda29dc4fbada49bd68a6fbd76bf40c
268 · May 01, 2012 at 2:17 AM

There is definitely a connection with the thyroid and the gut. I find my metabolism is directly correlated with the amount of glucose. Which makes sense because thyroid hormones NEED glucose to be activated.

59d367d77f4082717bade07508624db8
1198 · May 01, 2012 at 12:24 AM

Yes, the panic attacks, I nearly forgot. My friends said it was just painful to see me cling to this thing. I'm going to buy some rice, potatoes, fruit, liver, and mussels today. I'm a little skeptical to take a lot of non-food vitamin A though.

E68bdbd83e45fd5be130e393ace9c9a9
2048 · April 30, 2012 at 11:57 PM

Also, after 2 months of eating meat and vegetables to the point where I was uncomfortable, I had people telling me I looked too thin... I seem to tolerate Japanese sweet potatoes... I'm going to add rice back in this week. Please update, both of you! We're in the same boat.

E68bdbd83e45fd5be130e393ace9c9a9
2048 · April 30, 2012 at 11:55 PM

I am getting into this territory myself... 2 months on meat and vegetables and I looked awful and started having panic attacks! I'm eating sugar now and feeling better. Nothing bad has happened yet but it's still too early to say what needs to happen. My instinct is that my damaged gut cannot digest vegetables, and I also think the thyroid is involved somehow.

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268 · April 30, 2012 at 7:23 PM

I also agree about the extra cals. I also have been consuming around 2500-3000cal's and although that seems like enough I was able to put away 2500+ on that pizza alone (which was one meal) so maybe I need to eat more. I think i'm going to eat 2-3lb's of potatoes every day cut back my vegetables to a very minimum and keep everything else the same. Will report back

4dda29dc4fbada49bd68a6fbd76bf40c
268 · April 30, 2012 at 7:21 PM

Yea, I believe it is the extra carbs/fat cals. I also have been consuming around 2500-3000cal's and although that seems like enough I was able to put away 2500+ on that pizza alone (which was one meal) so maybe I need to eat more. I think i'm going to eat 2-3lb's of potatoes every day cut back my vegetables to a very minimum and keep everything else the same. Will report back.

4dda29dc4fbada49bd68a6fbd76bf40c
268 · April 30, 2012 at 7:08 PM

Yes I am - you have good deduction skills ;) Any reason why you ask? Tried eating vegetables alone... I dont think my body is even taking note of them - they are just sitting in my stomach doing nothing. Normally I can feel the digestive process go but not much is happening. Starting to get a little inflammed too. I steemed cabbage, brocolli and bokchoy.

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15400 · April 30, 2012 at 6:24 PM

Thanks for the feedback. If you do not mind me asking... you are in your 20s, right?

59d367d77f4082717bade07508624db8
1198 · April 30, 2012 at 6:21 PM

I like Paul's idea, maybe throwing caution to the wind and bingeing is simply allowing us to eat enough calories for once. Although I already eat so much! People are amazed at how much I put away, and that's before they see the ice cream every night (lately).

35a8b223ae5d863f17a8c9e3a8eed5eb
571 · April 30, 2012 at 12:23 PM

This thread is very interesting! I came to similar conclusions like you and Nikolas. What's very important for looks is to eat ENOUGH. It's easier with food like pizza and calorie bombs like ice cream.

35a8b223ae5d863f17a8c9e3a8eed5eb
571 · April 30, 2012 at 12:21 PM

haha, welcome to the dark side! You can join us at 180degreehealth.com

35a8b223ae5d863f17a8c9e3a8eed5eb
571 · April 30, 2012 at 12:15 PM

haha, welcome to the dark side! You can us at 180degreehealth.com

4dda29dc4fbada49bd68a6fbd76bf40c
268 · April 30, 2012 at 8:21 AM

Nope, Pastured raw butter and ghee don't seem to have any negative effects. Milk and cheese however seem to cause oily skin - perhaps through my gut bacteria breaking the bound estrogen for re-absorption. If I were to make a purely judgement call on why your diet "messed up" i'd say it's the sweet potatoes.

4dda29dc4fbada49bd68a6fbd76bf40c
268 · April 30, 2012 at 8:13 AM

It's nice to know at least one person is in the same situation. I think I will go with the no veg diet and see where I fall and include some fruits for piece of mind. It's pretty ironic that we search out health, find answers, follow the advice and still end up in the same position. In regard to both our issues - I think the common ground between pizza and ice-cream would be glucose. Icecream may be mostly sucrose but through my studies I highly (very highly) doubt fructose is the toxin people make it out to be considering how prevalent it is in nature.

59d367d77f4082717bade07508624db8
1198 · April 30, 2012 at 5:59 AM

Do you react to ghee like other dairy? Not that it's a source of calcium (it isn't), just curious.

4dda29dc4fbada49bd68a6fbd76bf40c
268 · April 30, 2012 at 12:06 AM

I understand the opiode receptor connection and that crossed my mind but to but I get the feel good/look good feeling when I consume paleo foods - it just seems that vegetables are inhibiting that - perhaps inhibiting digestion so i'm not getting a super surge of nutrients to uplift me.

4dda29dc4fbada49bd68a6fbd76bf40c
268 · April 30, 2012 at 12:03 AM

Can't say i've had a crash - so far atleast. I have tried eating vegetables alone (well with fats but I dont know if that's what you mean) but I dont feel like i've eaten anything and the inflammation occurs. However it's been awhile - and I will try it again and report back.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790
15400 · April 29, 2012 at 9:44 PM

Thank you for the link, but I found a couple of discrepancies. For example, one article states "Where the least fruits could be found (Northern Europe), humans best adapted to consuming cow’s milk". What? Northern Europe has more berries (more variety and more nutritious) than the rest of the world!!! I wonder how many more facts are wrong there.

4dda29dc4fbada49bd68a6fbd76bf40c
268 · April 29, 2012 at 8:02 PM

That sounds like what I am aiming towards - a little beat inspired if you will. As for the neolithic foods making me feel good - I think I would chalk up to the high amount of carbs/fats.. Don't get me wrong - the last thing I think are healthy are those foods.. just wanted to draw a comparison between "healthy" veg and neolithic foods.

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8 Answers

59d367d77f4082717bade07508624db8
5
1198 · April 30, 2012 at 5:58 AM

Your post is kind of a revelation to me. I have a crush on a coworker, and it's getting to the point now where I need to eat at least a pint of ice cream before I see her. I'm glowing after eating it. I look like garbage most of the time eating paleo. I know exactly what you mean by just general splotchy inflammation, ugh, where every blemish on my face is in this flushed stark relief to my skin.

When I was cloistered in the world of lonely super strict paleo, mostly vegetables and meat (organs, broth, too), I never looked worse in my life, but it had become unthinkable for me to eat something like ice cream. The option wasn't even on the table. I thought the world would explode if I ate a pizza. Every new pimple was just baffling to me. But then, like you, I was in such a major funk, a funk that an unhealthy relationship to food seems to conjure up, and I binged on take-out for a few weeks, and I looked, eh, a little better if anything. According to the principles I had been eating under for the last 6 months, you'd think I'd have turned into Freddy Kruger. Whenever I visit home, my mom has a ton of vegetables in the fridge and over the course of a week, even with adequate starch, I just look worse and worse.

So do we eat what we know by our ad-hoc internet-informed principles is healthiest for us, or do we eat what makes us look best? The "worse" I eat, it seems, the more comments I get about how healthy I look, consistently, although gluten is the exception an doesn't do me much good. I'm at a loss as well. Maybe you were starved of something in the pizza you ate, I just can't think of what.

But anyways, I think you've answered your own question. Maybe lay off the vegetables, pretend that bones/broth are enough calcium, shore up on some nutrients with occasional fruit (since they seem at worst neutral for you) and go from there. You could try grinding bones, or maybe including bone-in small fish. I looked best eating liver/shellfish, some meat, starch, a few root vegetables, and ghee, but it lasted only a few weeks before I somehow screwed it up. Maybe it was sweet potatoes, never suspected them before.

I think I'll be trying a diet similar to this too. Korion is having success with this Peat-inspired stuff as well.

59d367d77f4082717bade07508624db8
1198 · April 30, 2012 at 6:21 PM

I like Paul's idea, maybe throwing caution to the wind and bingeing is simply allowing us to eat enough calories for once. Although I already eat so much! People are amazed at how much I put away, and that's before they see the ice cream every night (lately).

4dda29dc4fbada49bd68a6fbd76bf40c
268 · April 30, 2012 at 8:13 AM

It's nice to know at least one person is in the same situation. I think I will go with the no veg diet and see where I fall and include some fruits for piece of mind. It's pretty ironic that we search out health, find answers, follow the advice and still end up in the same position. In regard to both our issues - I think the common ground between pizza and ice-cream would be glucose. Icecream may be mostly sucrose but through my studies I highly (very highly) doubt fructose is the toxin people make it out to be considering how prevalent it is in nature.

35a8b223ae5d863f17a8c9e3a8eed5eb
571 · April 30, 2012 at 12:23 PM

This thread is very interesting! I came to similar conclusions like you and Nikolas. What's very important for looks is to eat ENOUGH. It's easier with food like pizza and calorie bombs like ice cream.

4dda29dc4fbada49bd68a6fbd76bf40c
268 · April 30, 2012 at 7:21 PM

Yea, I believe it is the extra carbs/fat cals. I also have been consuming around 2500-3000cal's and although that seems like enough I was able to put away 2500+ on that pizza alone (which was one meal) so maybe I need to eat more. I think i'm going to eat 2-3lb's of potatoes every day cut back my vegetables to a very minimum and keep everything else the same. Will report back.

4dda29dc4fbada49bd68a6fbd76bf40c
268 · April 30, 2012 at 7:23 PM

I also agree about the extra cals. I also have been consuming around 2500-3000cal's and although that seems like enough I was able to put away 2500+ on that pizza alone (which was one meal) so maybe I need to eat more. I think i'm going to eat 2-3lb's of potatoes every day cut back my vegetables to a very minimum and keep everything else the same. Will report back

E68bdbd83e45fd5be130e393ace9c9a9
2048 · April 30, 2012 at 11:57 PM

Also, after 2 months of eating meat and vegetables to the point where I was uncomfortable, I had people telling me I looked too thin... I seem to tolerate Japanese sweet potatoes... I'm going to add rice back in this week. Please update, both of you! We're in the same boat.

4dda29dc4fbada49bd68a6fbd76bf40c
268 · May 01, 2012 at 2:17 AM

There is definitely a connection with the thyroid and the gut. I find my metabolism is directly correlated with the amount of glucose. Which makes sense because thyroid hormones NEED glucose to be activated.

E68bdbd83e45fd5be130e393ace9c9a9
2048 · May 01, 2012 at 2:37 AM

@Nikolas, I didn't know stomach acid production was linked to thyroid...very interesting. Glad the potatoes helped. @StreakofLean, why do you feel you need non-food Vitamin A? I just eat liver.... Sorry to hear you had panic attacks but glad I'm not the only one!

59d367d77f4082717bade07508624db8
1198 · May 01, 2012 at 4:27 AM

Hmm, I've never had any digestive issues, almost ever. When I saw Kresser he suggested HCI, but I've never had any digestive issues, at all, ever. It's kind of weird, and kind of confounding when trying to figure out what's going on with my body.

E68bdbd83e45fd5be130e393ace9c9a9
2048 · May 01, 2012 at 3:10 AM

I agree betaine HCl is important... I didn't buy more when I ran out a month ago, but I just started taking it again last week after my digestion was the worst it's ever been. I'm going to do a few weeks of bone broth, canned pumpkin, gelatin, squash, rice, yams, liver - just stuff that's really easy to digest. We'll see how it goes.

4dda29dc4fbada49bd68a6fbd76bf40c
268 · May 01, 2012 at 2:42 AM

To tide yourself over while you get everything sorted you might want to give betaine HCl w/pepsin (stomach acid) supplementation a go. I notice relief when I take it and I take less as my carb intake increases.

E68bdbd83e45fd5be130e393ace9c9a9
2048 · April 30, 2012 at 11:55 PM

I am getting into this territory myself... 2 months on meat and vegetables and I looked awful and started having panic attacks! I'm eating sugar now and feeling better. Nothing bad has happened yet but it's still too early to say what needs to happen. My instinct is that my damaged gut cannot digest vegetables, and I also think the thyroid is involved somehow.

4dda29dc4fbada49bd68a6fbd76bf40c
268 · May 01, 2012 at 2:21 AM

Part 2: I just finished my dinner.. decided to take a chance and include a moderate amount of vegetables but include 2 pounds of peeled white potatoes with my meal.. and all I can say is it made a huge difference - not 100% but 90% better than normal. The thyroid (as well as vitamin D) has a direct influence on the release of stomach acid ( which prevents fermentation in the stomach) -- and stomach acid triggers the pancreas to dish out digestive enzymes to break that food down.. So for whatever reason I need a lot more glucose to complete that operation than others..

59d367d77f4082717bade07508624db8
1198 · May 01, 2012 at 12:24 AM

Yes, the panic attacks, I nearly forgot. My friends said it was just painful to see me cling to this thing. I'm going to buy some rice, potatoes, fruit, liver, and mussels today. I'm a little skeptical to take a lot of non-food vitamin A though.

4dda29dc4fbada49bd68a6fbd76bf40c
268 · May 01, 2012 at 4:03 AM

Good luck :) Let me know how it works out.

59d367d77f4082717bade07508624db8
1198 · May 01, 2012 at 4:27 AM

Hmm, when I saw Kresser he suggested HCI, but I've never had any digestive issues, at all, ever. It's kind of weird, and kind of confounding when trying to figure out what's going on with my body.

4dda29dc4fbada49bd68a6fbd76bf40c
268 · May 01, 2012 at 10:13 PM

You may not have any noticeable issues. You can always do a simple test with HCL. Take a tablet with a meal.. if you notice burning, that's not your issue.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645
4413 · August 10, 2012 at 2:08 AM

I agree.. I think a lot of the people answering here need HCL/Betaine and or digestive enzymes and also need to look at healing there Leaky Gut.

E0c56419c0a8335fe33415b4e6f6b5bb
2
20 · August 10, 2012 at 1:56 AM

I have been trying to get clear skin for so long now and I couldn't understand why the healthier I ate the worse my skin looked. I have stopped eating raw vegetables and wouldn't you know it, my skin is finally clearing up. I think it is definitely the raw cruciferous vegetables that can cause some people to break out due to not being able to digest them properly. I no longer have distinguishable items in my fecal matter, (sorry I know too much information). I eat lots of animal products, dairy and cooked or fermented vegetables, I know that dairy is not paleo, but I really like the raw milk and cheeses. I had cut them out at one time thinking that my skin would do better but it actually seemed to get worse. I do not eat grains. I have read articles linking low thyroid to acne, so the cruciferous vegetables could also be effecting the thyroid but honestly I think that it is a digestion issue. I don't have a problem with fruit so I don't think it is fructose that I have trouble digesting but I believe it is the raffinose sugar that is found in vegetables like broccoli and brussel sprouts etc. I used to eat huge salads made from romaine lettuce, carrots, and broccoli and my skin looked awful. I hope this helps!

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645
4413 · August 10, 2012 at 2:05 AM

perhaps you want to look into digestive enzymes and/or HCL curing what may be a Leaky Gut

45eaf1688c1baf31d687a382b78f451f
2
502 · April 29, 2012 at 8:41 PM

Hmmm...both gluten (in the pizza crust) and casein (in the ice cream that VB feels good on) contain opiates...you may have become extra-sensitive to the effects of these opiates after an extended period of not consuming gluten / casein? Just a thought...

There's also research (not sure how legit) that shows some people are naturally more sensitive to the opiates in wheat or casein than others.

http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/home/eng/peptide.asp http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/04/wheat-is-an-opiate/

http://www.13.waisays.com/zombie.htm (including this one because it's entitled "Zombie-food"...funny...no mention of eating brains) http://www.nutramed.com/eatingdisorders/addictivefoods.htm

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790
15400 · April 29, 2012 at 9:44 PM

Thank you for the link, but I found a couple of discrepancies. For example, one article states "Where the least fruits could be found (Northern Europe), humans best adapted to consuming cow’s milk". What? Northern Europe has more berries (more variety and more nutritious) than the rest of the world!!! I wonder how many more facts are wrong there.

4dda29dc4fbada49bd68a6fbd76bf40c
268 · April 30, 2012 at 12:06 AM

I understand the opiode receptor connection and that crossed my mind but to but I get the feel good/look good feeling when I consume paleo foods - it just seems that vegetables are inhibiting that - perhaps inhibiting digestion so i'm not getting a super surge of nutrients to uplift me.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645
4413 · August 10, 2012 at 2:12 AM

I don't think Gluten and Casein contain opiates as much as when a person has a Leaky Gut and these molecules get into the blood stream they can cross the blood brain barrier and at that point are similar in structure to opiates.... People without a totally healthy gut and ability to digest food can handle these substances and do not have a problem with with.I am NOT saying that gluten is healthy or should be eaten. It used to cause me a lot of problems and it doens't anymore, although I rarely if ever eat it.

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4620 · April 29, 2012 at 7:25 PM

I've actually found that raw and lightly cooked veggies are some of the worst digesting foods for me. I look, feel, and perform best on a digestively simple diet, which for me looks like: beef, broth, shellfish, egg yolks, ripe fruits (oranges and black-spotted bananas), well-cooked white potatoes and white rice. I do add some non-cruciferous veggies to my broth and cook them very well.

I think calcium is underrated in the paleosphere, so I take about 400mg worth of calcium a day from finely ground egg shells to make up for my poor dietary calcium intake (I have this suspicion that even the best bone broth isn't that great of a calcium source). I'd say you're probably good for calcium with the stew bones.

For the neolithic poison making you feel good part, maybe you're just not getting enough calories and the pizza calorie bolus calmed down some stress hormones? Plus pizza is delicious. Delicious things usually make people happy. Happiness = look and feel good! I'm grasping at straws here :P

Anyway, just my $0.02!

4dda29dc4fbada49bd68a6fbd76bf40c
268 · April 29, 2012 at 8:02 PM

That sounds like what I am aiming towards - a little beat inspired if you will. As for the neolithic foods making me feel good - I think I would chalk up to the high amount of carbs/fats.. Don't get me wrong - the last thing I think are healthy are those foods.. just wanted to draw a comparison between "healthy" veg and neolithic foods.

19ff515e8ec02d95e8f2cf68c3ec1373
1187 · August 10, 2012 at 3:02 AM

Nettle tea as a source of calcium?

576dc803ed0dfa3616509e20f515d070
1
75 · July 03, 2013 at 5:46 PM

Sorry if i shouldn't but just replying for my own reference.

i have also noticed the same kind of thing.

ie:

The "better" i eat the worse i feel [physiologically anyway].

Just look at the diet of all the centenarians - they really aren't that great - not that it means anything yes i know.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790
1
15400 · April 29, 2012 at 8:10 PM

After going gluten-free I have discovered that I thrive on vegetables. Especially spinach and cabbage family. I even grew to like (ok, maybe tolerate) broccoli. I never get sick or anything of that matter when I am eating vegetables.

I also tolerate fruit well except for... eating fruit makes me hungrier and gives me sugar/fruit cravings. Also sometimes I get an uncomfortable feeling in my stomach after eating blueberries, apples or bananas, but my gut is so screwed up, I feel uncomfortable after eating almost anything... except for veggies.

By the way, have you tried eating ONLY vegetables (non-starchy) for one meal? I have - I actually became a "temporary" vegetarian (I had no access to any protein source for one full weak) and I did great!!! I was craving protein, but I felt fabulous!

How do I explain your feel-good after eating pizza?

I do not buy it that pizza is delicious - I never actually liked either pizza or pasta. Even when we went to pizzeria, I would always order something else. So... we all have different comfort foods, I guess.

However, here is something to consider. Every time I eat gluten-free junk food (like ice-cream) I feel wonderful afterwards. I have been puzzled about it for a long long time. I am not a doctor, not a nutritionist and not a scientist, but this is my guess (so you can take it with a grain of salt).

When I eat healthy home-cooked meals full of wonderful nutritious vegetables and high quality protein, my liver does not have much to work on. However, as soon as I eat some "junk" full of fat and sugar, my liver gets stimulated and it starts working in overdrive.

Now it would be interesting for me to know how you will feel tonight or tomorrow. Will you crash? I would love to hear an update!

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268 · April 30, 2012 at 12:03 AM

Can't say i've had a crash - so far atleast. I have tried eating vegetables alone (well with fats but I dont know if that's what you mean) but I dont feel like i've eaten anything and the inflammation occurs. However it's been awhile - and I will try it again and report back.

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15400 · April 30, 2012 at 6:24 PM

Thanks for the feedback. If you do not mind me asking... you are in your 20s, right?

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268 · April 30, 2012 at 7:08 PM

Yes I am - you have good deduction skills ;) Any reason why you ask? Tried eating vegetables alone... I dont think my body is even taking note of them - they are just sitting in my stomach doing nothing. Normally I can feel the digestive process go but not much is happening. Starting to get a little inflammed too. I steemed cabbage, brocolli and bokchoy.

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1631 · August 10, 2012 at 3:04 AM

I AGREE!! I used to be strict low-carb and my diet was very heavy in the proteins and fats.. Ughh.. So sluggish. I Felt less than optimal, GAINED FAT, YES GAINED FAT and had no sex drive.. I have lowered my fat ( still keep it as a healthy source of calories though ) Upped my fruit big time. I drink alot of green smoothies with 3-4 bananas, a few peaches and a large amount of greens. My metabolism is getting healthy again and I'm shedding fat and feel great. I also don't eat any chicken anymore. My diet is lots of fruit, some white rice, potatoes ( sweet also ), Lots of free-range eggs and beef. That's about it. Digestion is good. I have to avoid all dairy and raw cruciferous veggies in order to feel good. I also LIVE LIFE everyonce in a while. I don't do well with dairy but HECH with it. I gotta have some ice cream and pizza every now and then. Oh I drink ALOT of Oj too. Life is good, I'm more toward a " Real foods " diet now.

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4413 · August 10, 2012 at 2:17 AM

I think you experienced an increase in dopamine (and other Nts) from the "thrill and excitement" of eating something so off limits and "forbidden". That's my thought.

The other thing that is striking to me in the answers here is all the people having issues with digestion.
Its my impression that healthy GI systems can and should be able to digest any vegetable.
I personally would look at figuring out what might be going on in the digestion of food that is causing inflammation. I just doesn't make sense.

I suspect its an issue of dysbiosis and increased GI permeability (aka Leaky Gut).

Good Luck to you.

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