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Schrödinger's Carbs?

by (5356)
Updated about 22 hours ago
Created July 22, 2013 at 9:38 AM

I???ve been using Stevia and trying to pick the one I like the most and I recently picked up one called Truvia...I was a little under whelmed by it at first, but after reading some of the info seemingly behind it, one particular aspect of it caught my eye which says...

???contains erythritol, which is a naturally occurring sugar alcohol. Erythritol does contribute 3 grams of carbohydrate on the food label. However, erythritol passes through the body without being broken down for calories. As a result, it also has no effect on blood sugar???

I found this interesting for two reasons, one being, that it's interesting and I wonder what other naturally occurring substances work in the same way, simply passing on by? My second thought???should I be counting the carbs related to the Stevia/ Truvia at all? Or am I interpreting this passage incorrectly.

Truth.

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17103 · July 24, 2013 at 10:41 AM

There's a simple way to find out - try it on yourself and you'll get n=1 answers for yourself. Use a glucometer for before/after results. As you might imagine, I haven't the money to run studies to answer for what percentage of paleo dieters does X work. My answer wasn't a set of questions to you, but rather an answer from my own experience/knowledge.

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5356 · July 23, 2013 at 1:21 PM

@raydawg - I answered you below, much more room!

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3217 · July 22, 2013 at 12:33 PM

I'll admit it. +1 for your title. ;)

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1227 · July 22, 2013 at 11:50 AM

Serious answer. I think wood cellulose is also used in a lemonade beverage that used to be available from a machine where I worked. I'm glad I didn't drink. I worry about drinking the cool-aid sometimes while following High Fat Low Carb way of eating/living. It is not an article of faith with me. It works!

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1227 · July 22, 2013 at 11:44 AM

Good Answser from a thinker.

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1227 · July 22, 2013 at 11:44 AM

How timely. Today there is an article in the NYT that references Schrodingers Cats and the Uncertainty Principle. I live for these synchronicities. It makes me think I'm on the right path. Paleo/Primal is that path! I don't have an answer to your question. I just like it.

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3 Answers

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1193 · July 22, 2013 at 11:13 AM

Truvia didn't have any erythritol until you observed it. Once you did, though, the universe collapsed into a state in which it did. That's not to say, for example, that you shouldn't read labels in the hopes that whole wheat bread doesn't contain wheat. Rather, read the labels and make the most of what meets the eye. If, as in this case, something doesn't seem to add up, your options are to exercise caution by avoiding it or to try it out and adjust based on experimental results.

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1227 · July 22, 2013 at 11:44 AM

Good Answser from a thinker.

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5356 · July 23, 2013 at 6:34 AM

???You shouldn't be counting calories at all; yes, on some level they matter, but if you eat proper paleo foods, your appetite control will work, and they won't be an issue.???

In this instance, the counting of calories has nothing to do with weight loss, the number is about me making sure I hit at least 1500 calories for the day, because I can easily sit at about a thousand and feel ???fine??? but I don???t enough subcutaneous fat to make up the difference, because eating Paleo IS so satiating, I fall into the not eating enough unless I???m paying attention category.

???Another scenario, if you do bulletproof coffee in the morning while otherwise fasted, like I do, but then you sweetened it with stevia. Your blood sugar is nice and low, and you've just consumed what is essentially a high fat meal. The sweet taste now triggers insulin, which signals all macros in your blood to be stored in fat, muscle, and liver. ???

Is this an absolute in everyone, or is this part of your most people scenario???and what percent of most people does this happen too?

???Congrats! You've just cleared out the little blood sugar you've had in your blood meant as fuel for red blood cells and your brain - so you're going hypoglycemic, and also signaled all the fat you've just consumed to be stored too. So now you get very hungry instead of being able to last even a few minutes and hunger will hit you like a ton of bricks and you won't last for 5 minutes.???

I???m not sure if this applies to me, I know the hunger bricks doesn???t apply and I do a type of BPC ??? Coffee, Cream and now Honey, I threw out the Truvia after doing some additional research!

???Do those nearly zero carbs count when the effect on the total meal is to store it? Should it be called highly glycemic on a glycemic load/index scale when there's no glucose in it, but the net effect is macronutriet storage - just like eating a cup of sugar? I don't know, but I do know it's not an effect I'd want if I'm trying to burn off fat rather than gain it. (If you're not trying to lose fat, why even bother counting calories in the first place?)???

I???m having a hard time answering this because I???m not sure if it applies to me or if this is a possible scenario as you noted above. I am always making sure my fat is in check, but again, some of the things you described above I don???t THINK happen to me personally.

???Plus, if you're trying to get rid of sugar cravings so as to be fat adapted, do you really think it would help to continue consuming very sweet foods????

I can???t speak to this, I don???t have sugar cravings are eat very sweet foods..I mean, if left to myself with a jar of raw honey???it wouldn???t be pretty, but I don???t go out of my way to over indulge on it, and I???ve read that you can go as high as 200 calories and still be considered in a fasted state, so with that in mind, I???ve added honey to my coffee this morning, but I wouldn???t mind trying real Stevia (though I thought I was eating it) at this point to get away from sugar altogether in my coffee.

???Ok, sure, the fibers in some foods are undigestable, some even by gut flora, so that would be another, that's why we don't count the carbs in leafy greens or broccoli.???

I was thinking more along these lines, not so much a Franken SUPER food ???

Thanks for your answers!

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17103 · July 24, 2013 at 10:41 AM

There's a simple way to find out - try it on yourself and you'll get n=1 answers for yourself. Use a glucometer for before/after results. As you might imagine, I haven't the money to run studies to answer for what percentage of paleo dieters does X work. My answer wasn't a set of questions to you, but rather an answer from my own experience/knowledge.

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17103 · July 22, 2013 at 10:27 AM

You shouldn't be counting calories at all; yes, on some level they matter, but if you eat proper paleo foods, your appetite control will work, and they won't be an issue.

It turns out that all sweeteners, stevia included (which Truvia has very little of), cause an insulin response in most people. The food/drink enters your mouth, taste receptors sense sweet, insulin is triggered in expectation of lots of carbs coming in. But no actual carbs come in, so this messes up our internal sense of how many calories we've just eaten, and we get hungrier and eat more food. This is why diet sodas cause people to gain more fat.

Another scenario, if you do bulletproof coffee in the morning while otherwise fasted, like I do, but then you sweetened it with stevia. Your blood sugar is nice and low, and you've just consumed what is essentially a high fat meal. The sweet taste now triggers insulin, which signals all macros in your blood to be stored in fat, muscle, and liver.

Congrats! You've just cleared out the little blood sugar you've had in your blood meant as fuel for red blood cells and your brain - so you're going hypoglycemic, and also signaled all the fat you've just consumed to be stored too. So now you get very hungry instead of being able to last even a few minutes and hunger will hit you like a ton of bricks and you won't last for 5 minutes.

Do those nearly zero carbs count when the effect on the total meal is to store it? Should it be called highly glycemic on a glycemic load/index scale when there's no glucose in it, but the net effect is macronutriet storage - just like eating a cup of sugar? I don't know, but I do know it's not an effect I'd want if I'm trying to burn off fat rather than gain it. (If you're not trying to lose fat, why even bother counting calories in the first place?)

Plus, if you're trying to get rid of sugar cravings so as to be fat adapted, do you really think it would help to continue consuming very sweet foods?

Now, Stevia is good stuff, I'd say the best of the non-carb sweeteners. You might safely add a very tiny amount to a carb and protein containing meal without many problems - if you don't wish to lose fat and don't care to go very low carb. But if you look closely, as you have, Truvia isn't pure stevia, it's yet another crap-in-a-bag-product designed to be hyper palatable. There's very little stevia in it, it's made in a factory, etc. Are you sure you'd want to use it? The best you can say about it is that it's not as detrimental to your health as aspartame or the other nasty artificial sweeteners.

If you get pure stevia extract, you'll find it's not like sugar at all, it's very bitter in most things and you can taste that bitterness, and you need something like a tiny knife-tip to sweeten a lot of food in a way that maybe several tablespoons of sugar would... It also has a positive (or negative effect for some) in that it can lower your blood pressure.

In terms of what other substances you'd naturally consume that flow through you, the food industry just came up with one: wood pulp. They started adding cellulose to certain foods to bulk them up so you'd feel full, but they didn't do it for your benefit, they did it because it's a cheap way to increase the weight for the food and the benefit they advertise is really a monetary benefit for them.

Ok, sure, the fibers in some foods are undigestable, some even by gut flora, so that would be another, that's why we don't count the carbs in leafy greens or broccoli.

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5356 · July 23, 2013 at 1:21 PM

@raydawg - I answered you below, much more room!

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1227 · July 22, 2013 at 11:50 AM

Serious answer. I think wood cellulose is also used in a lemonade beverage that used to be available from a machine where I worked. I'm glad I didn't drink. I worry about drinking the cool-aid sometimes while following High Fat Low Carb way of eating/living. It is not an article of faith with me. It works!

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