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supplemental B12 and Folate (bulletproof-exec recs)

by (-1)
Updated about 4 hours ago
Created June 19, 2014 at 2:40 AM

i know dave asprey is not paleo & that supplements are a big thing over at bulletproof exec,

but would be interested on some feedback on their/his recs for folate and b12,

the recs are "Dose: >5mg of methylcobalamin or hydroxycobalamin and >800mcg of folate (5-MTHF or folinic acid, NOT folic acid)" Source

[ these seem to be quite (very?) high doses (to me) ]

+1 for anyone that spares their time to answer (spammers et al excluded). thanks for any/all answers

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41544 · June 30, 2014 at 10:08 PM

@Mscott1 I gave you a new password on Mscott, check your email and try logging in.

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30 · June 30, 2014 at 6:10 PM

Ok well I do get emails about phacks stuff on my mscott1 email so even though it's not validated (which is odd) that would probably work. See what you can do, mod-man!

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41544 · June 30, 2014 at 3:52 AM

I can try to change your email on Mscott to the email on @Mscott1 (which, by the way, says email not validated). (Just playing around with what I can see as a mod, I don't know if it will work or not!)

Medium avatar
10214 · June 30, 2014 at 3:14 AM

Semantics...It's a load or a crock of shit, but not a load of crock...

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30 · June 30, 2014 at 1:59 AM

Yeah an email reset would be cool, let me know what ya need to do that.

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41544 · June 29, 2014 at 7:09 PM

@Mscott1 Can you not log onto the Mscott account? Need a password or email reset? I might be able to get that sorted.

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41544 · June 20, 2014 at 11:17 AM

I'm so cool, yet I have no clue how to do this. David would be the person with the superpowers to do this.

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4458 · June 20, 2014 at 6:22 AM

see if they can merge your two accounts (was possible in the past)

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30 · June 20, 2014 at 5:37 AM

Aight, I'll get ahold of one them, maybe Matt so I can tell him how cool I think he is.

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10994 · June 19, 2014 at 7:03 PM

Mscott, please contact @CDone, @Matt 11 , @DavidSinick or @raydawg to restore your account. Foreveryoung just recently had the same problem as you and @CDone was able to resolve this issue. I hate to see original members lose all their points.

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1005 · June 19, 2014 at 5:35 PM

With B vitamins, I'm seeing the major cardiovascular events at -7 vs placebo, non-fatal infarctions at -4 vs placebo, all coronary events at -6 vs placebo, stroke at -15 vs placebo, with +13 cerebrovascular events, +2 revascularisations, and +12 "other events" vs b vitamin group, for a total of 5 fewer events with B vitamins.

Yet, total deaths is higher on the b vitamin side, split around +/- 14 guys for which group one might fall into. It's hard to draw conclusions from such a small sample size, given that you had to have had a major cardiovascular event in the past to be in the study.

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30 · June 19, 2014 at 7:53 AM

Death from cardiovascular causes was actually near significantly higher in the B vitamin group. So maybe that group was having less strokes, but they were dying more from the infarctions they did have.

I'll read up on the methyl folate trap hypothesis so I know better what you're referring to.

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1005 · June 19, 2014 at 5:14 AM

On the plus side, homocysteine was lowered by 19% compared with placebo, and the cardiovascular chart doesn't look bad.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC299304...

Their view was that a standard american diet, supplemented with more PUFA and b vitamins on top failed to prevent cardiovascular disease in people with a history of cardiovascular disease when supplements were taken after the acute phase of the initial event.

20mcg of b12 seems a bit low when attempting to study b vitamins, especially when given 500+mcg of methylated folate. (eg. methyl folate trap hypothesis.)

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6 Answers

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598 · June 30, 2014 at 4:32 AM

personally based on nutrient tracking I find that I get plenty (if not excessive) b12 from dietary sources on a paleo diet (sources like fish and beef). Getting enough folate is a little more variable.

Given the various issues with synthetic folate (folic acid) I would either increase dietary intake (things like asparagus, avocado, mango, chicken liver, and cruciferous veggies) or if you must, use a natural supplement like "Doctor's Best" Folate.

Speaking of Nootropic B vitamins though, I'm a big fan of sulbutiamine. Its basically a form of B1 that more readily crosses the blood-brain barrier. I believe it's fat soluble so can be taken with meals.

Choline is great too if you don't eat enough egg yolks and liver.

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4458 · June 19, 2014 at 11:32 PM

i just did a bit of digging on folinic acid (as i had not really heard much/any about that form)...

calcium folinate is a form of folinic acid (aka 5-formyltetrahydrofolate?) found in some supps...from what i can tell this is an 'older' supplemental form, the newest form being 5-methyltetrahydrofolate (aka L-5-MTHF, Metafolin, Methylfolate).

I found some blurb here,

"Calcium folinate is inadequate for those with homozygous MTHFR C677T. You must take methylfolate. This is because the body processes folic acid through multiple variations until it finally reaches methylfolate. Calcium folinate = 5-formyltetrahydrofolate. This is three steps above methylfolate. It is not until the final step in the folic acid metabolism that methylfolate finally gets made. The MTHFR enzyme is found between 5,10 methylenetetrahyrofolate and 5-methyltetrahydrofolate (L-5-MTHF or Metafolin or Methylfolate – alias)"

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10994 · June 19, 2014 at 7:04 PM

To get your vitamins from whole foods is my recommendation. As for his recommendation, I think it's a load of crock.

Medium avatar
10214 · June 30, 2014 at 3:14 AM

Semantics...It's a load or a crock of shit, but not a load of crock...

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1005 · June 19, 2014 at 5:20 AM

It's probably worth testing your genetics if you're looking into supplementing that combo. Things like MTHFR / MTR / MTRR and a homocysteine blood test. I wouldn't advise blindly taking high dose supplements.

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30 · June 19, 2014 at 3:31 AM

I'm personally wary of high dose folate/folic acid supplementation without a good reason (e.g. pregnancy). Some clinical studies have suggested folic acid may increase cancer risk. Personally I'm not convinced this was due to the "synthetic folic acid" as some claim since several cancer drugs block the normal metabolism of folate. Also, a small trial found 560 mcg's of "natural" folate (5-mthf) alongside vitamins B6 and B12 increased the risk of death:

"Effects of B vitamins and omega 3 fatty acids on cardiovascular diseases: a randomised placebo controlled trial"

This is one of the only studies I'm aware of that looked at the long term health effects of a supplement containing a natural folate.

So in my opinion you should avoid taking super high doses of folate unless you have some reason to suspect such a need.

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1005 · June 19, 2014 at 5:14 AM

On the plus side, homocysteine was lowered by 19% compared with placebo, and the cardiovascular chart doesn't look bad.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC299304...

Their view was that a standard american diet, supplemented with more PUFA and b vitamins on top failed to prevent cardiovascular disease in people with a history of cardiovascular disease when supplements were taken after the acute phase of the initial event.

20mcg of b12 seems a bit low when attempting to study b vitamins, especially when given 500+mcg of methylated folate. (eg. methyl folate trap hypothesis.)

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10994 · June 19, 2014 at 7:03 PM

Mscott, please contact @CDone, @Matt 11 , @DavidSinick or @raydawg to restore your account. Foreveryoung just recently had the same problem as you and @CDone was able to resolve this issue. I hate to see original members lose all their points.

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245 · June 19, 2014 at 3:03 AM

If I was to give him the benefit of the doubt I would say that since B vitamins are water soluble most is not absorbed. (around %1 of cyano I believe, I think methyl kickes it up a few %)

Based on what I know about bulletproofexec, it seems asprey, like many nootropics users are fans of the supplement, supplement more, then supplement some more philosophy. ( for better or worse ) He is seeking ideal as he sees it, not 'good enough' or 'sufficient'.

I'm not educated enough to know if he's right or wrong, but his recommendations seem excessive if you're not in a deficient state.

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