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supplemental B12 and Folate (bulletproof-exec recs)

by 0 · June 30, 2014 at 10:08 PM

i know dave asprey is not paleo & that supplements are a big thing over at bulletproof exec,

but would be interested on some feedback on their/his recs for folate and b12,

the recs are "Dose: >5mg of methylcobalamin or hydroxycobalamin and >800mcg of folate (5-MTHF or folinic acid, NOT folic acid)" Source

[ these seem to be quite (very?) high doses (to me) ]

+1 for anyone that spares their time to answer (spammers et al excluded). thanks for any/all answers

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560 · June 30, 2014 at 04:33 AM

personally based on nutrient tracking I find that I get plenty (if not excessive) b12 from dietary sources on a paleo diet (sources like fish and beef). Getting enough folate is a little more variable.

Given the various issues with synthetic folate (folic acid) I would either increase dietary intake (things like asparagus, avocado, mango, chicken liver, and cruciferous veggies) or if you must, use a natural supplement like "Doctor's Best" Folate.

Speaking of Nootropic B vitamins though, I'm a big fan of sulbutiamine. Its basically a form of B1 that more readily crosses the blood-brain barrier. I believe it's fat soluble so can be taken with meals.

Choline is great too if you don't eat enough egg yolks and liver.

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4328 · June 19, 2014 at 11:32 PM

i just did a bit of digging on folinic acid (as i had not really heard much/any about that form)...

calcium folinate is a form of folinic acid (aka 5-formyltetrahydrofolate?) found in some supps...from what i can tell this is an 'older' supplemental form, the newest form being 5-methyltetrahydrofolate (aka L-5-MTHF, Metafolin, Methylfolate).

I found some blurb here,

"Calcium folinate is inadequate for those with homozygous MTHFR C677T. You must take methylfolate. This is because the body processes folic acid through multiple variations until it finally reaches methylfolate. Calcium folinate = 5-formyltetrahydrofolate. This is three steps above methylfolate. It is not until the final step in the folic acid metabolism that methylfolate finally gets made. The MTHFR enzyme is found between 5,10 methylenetetrahyrofolate and 5-methyltetrahydrofolate (L-5-MTHF or Metafolin or Methylfolate – alias)"

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10920 · June 30, 2014 at 03:14 AM

To get your vitamins from whole foods is my recommendation. As for his recommendation, I think it's a load of crock.

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982 · June 19, 2014 at 05:54 AM

It's probably worth testing your genetics if you're looking into supplementing that combo. Things like MTHFR / MTR / MTRR and a homocysteine blood test. I wouldn't advise blindly taking high dose supplements.

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30 · June 30, 2014 at 10:08 PM

I'm personally wary of high dose folate/folic acid supplementation without a good reason (e.g. pregnancy). Some clinical studies have suggested folic acid may increase cancer risk. Personally I'm not convinced this was due to the "synthetic folic acid" as some claim since several cancer drugs block the normal metabolism of folate. Also, a small trial found 560 mcg's of "natural" folate (5-mthf) alongside vitamins B6 and B12 increased the risk of death:

"Effects of B vitamins and omega 3 fatty acids on cardiovascular diseases: a randomised placebo controlled trial"

This is one of the only studies I'm aware of that looked at the long term health effects of a supplement containing a natural folate.

So in my opinion you should avoid taking super high doses of folate unless you have some reason to suspect such a need.

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225 · June 19, 2014 at 03:03 AM

If I was to give him the benefit of the doubt I would say that since B vitamins are water soluble most is not absorbed. (around %1 of cyano I believe, I think methyl kickes it up a few %)

Based on what I know about bulletproofexec, it seems asprey, like many nootropics users are fans of the supplement, supplement more, then supplement some more philosophy. ( for better or worse ) He is seeking ideal as he sees it, not 'good enough' or 'sufficient'.

I'm not educated enough to know if he's right or wrong, but his recommendations seem excessive if you're not in a deficient state.

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