1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f
12

(Breast) Milksharing for another infant, should I be increasing my micronutrients? by how much?

by (10919)
Updated September 13, 2011 at 8:57 PM
Created September 13, 2011 at 4:50 PM

So I am currently nursing my 9 month old baby boy and about 2 weeks ago I started pumping for an aquaintence's newborn. He's a super lazy nurser and her supply is dwindling by the week, despite pumping constantly and trying to nurse. Anyway, at the moment I'm getting about 10 oz to her a day, which is, I suppose about half her child's needs per day since he's about 4 weeks old. I'm trying to increase my supply to get more to her.

My question is, I'm already eating a primal (grain-free/ mostly dairy free except raw cheese) modified version of the WAPF diet for nursing mothers. Should I be increasing my servings of liver, coconut oil, and stuff like oysters since I'm now feeding one and a half babies or do you think that I'm probably already getting enough? I'd love to hear from any Paleo/nursing mothers of twins if they exist on this forum. What about stuff like magnesium supplements? Cod liver oil? D?

6229cd9a7ca9882590259fae022e2647
0 · September 14, 2011 at 6:21 PM

And as far as Paleo behaviour goes, this is probably VERY Paleo. I imagine our Paleo ancestors did this kind of thing all the time!

6229cd9a7ca9882590259fae022e2647
0 · September 14, 2011 at 6:20 PM

I just stumbled upon this recipe. Check these cookies out. http://paleoparents.com/2011/video-blog-ep4-breastfeeding-qa-and-grain-free-lactation-cookies/

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab
0 · September 14, 2011 at 3:12 AM

Ideally,(IMO) you are getting around 10,000 IUs/day average and no more than 20,0000 IUs of pre-formed retinol per day average from ALL sources. How much A is in your cod liver oil? If it's Green Pastures, they can't tell you. Ultimately, YOU are the expert on your body. Because I work with pregnant moms, I am hyper aware of Vitamin A toxicity as a possibility with a Primal/WAP diet + supplements.

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f
0 · September 14, 2011 at 1:58 AM

I love my cod liver oil. I thought that as long as the A, D, and K2 are balanced and from animal sources (not beta carotene or D2) that it's relatively safe as long as you don't go eating artic seal livers. No?

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f
0 · September 14, 2011 at 1:47 AM

About 4 months ago I tested at 65.1 for D levels and I've continued taking about 4000iu daily since then since I don't get much sun. (I live in new England and babies have this annoying habit of naturally napping between the hours for Noon and 3ish). I'm getting another blood test this week and I'll know the results in 2 weeks.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab
0 · September 13, 2011 at 11:27 PM

For sure, that's why I always recommend that my clients get tested every 6 months.

Thumbnail avatar
0 · September 13, 2011 at 10:38 PM

That's an excellent find and you're right, it appears to be tightly regulated even when therapeutic doses are ingested. I guess my concern would be the same as it is for people who dose with 10K IU for a while and end up over 100 ng/ml like this guy: http://paleohacks.com/questions/49308/stopping-vitamin-d#axzz1Xo8JdZ79 If a mother reached that level, I think it could be harmful to the baby as well. We have mechanisms for breaking down excess vitamin D in the skin, but we do not appear to for dietary vitamin D.

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f
0 · September 13, 2011 at 10:29 PM

OK I just re-read what you said and I didn't realize you meant putting MY baby on her. What an ingenious idea! I wonder if my son would go for it. Thanks!

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f
0 · September 13, 2011 at 10:17 PM

I tried wet nursing him last night. He was already kind of frustrated though from an unsuccessful latch on his momma so he wasn't having it. We'll probably try again in a day or two when he's more calm. I have no mental issues with it. I've nursed another baby once before. He's just a tough little cookie to crack. It's also tough because you don't want to take the baby too soon and not give the momma enough of a chance to try. tough situation.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab
0 · September 13, 2011 at 9:46 PM

Obviously they were working with D-deficient moms, but it doesn't appear that "high" doses of maternal D supplementation spilled over into the breast milk.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab
0 · September 13, 2011 at 9:45 PM

Travis~ You may find this study interesting: http://www.jacn.org/content/27/6/690.full "When lactating mothers received 6400 IU/day vitamin D3 for 6 months, their mean milk vitamin D activity increased from 82 to 873 IU/L (Fig. 1). This increase in vitamin D supply to the infant achieved infant vitamin D status equal to that observed with direct infant supplementation of 300 IU/day (46 ng/ml versus 43 ng/ml, respectively) (Fig. 2). In addition, mothers demonstrated significant improvement in vitamin D status."

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b
0 · September 13, 2011 at 9:39 PM

The mama I gave milk to had the same issue with a weak nurser. We could never quite get over the mental hurdle ourselves for some reason, but we did talk on occasion about "switching babies" for a nursing session, to get her some extra milk stimulation, and to get her baby used to more milk flow. We never did, didn't know if the babies would go for it either, but ever since I have wondered if that could have prolonged the other mother's milk supply. I know some tribes sometimes co-nurse like that, but the footage I've seen the kids involved don't look too pleased. Just a weird thought.

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f
0 · September 13, 2011 at 9:00 PM

They've tried all that. He has a weird form Of tongue tie, not the usual bottom Frenulum or upper lip. It'll require surgery with an ENT in Another state because no doctors will Do the surgery in rhode island, meanwhile he's getting more And more frustrated at breast and she's losing supply. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

Thumbnail avatar
0 · September 13, 2011 at 8:29 PM

I'm sure we're likely splitting hairs here, but because it's fat soluble, there *may* be a possibility of it spilling over to a greater than optimal extent in breast milk, though I think most of the D in breast milk is actually water soluble vitamin D sulphate. The OP seems pretty on top of things, so I don't think we'd be choosing between her taking it at all vs. spaced out.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab
0 · September 13, 2011 at 8:21 PM

Sure, but it's not very practical for most moms to remember to supplement spaced regularly over the day. If I can get my clietns to remember to take their D in the monring and Magnesium at night, I consider myself lucky! More important to make sure her level is adequate, regardless of means, IMO. I don't agree that just because we weren't used to eating that much D at once that it is really an issue. I just don't think that spacing it out is as important as you seem to think. Our bodies are pretty adaptable and used to "feast" or "famine".

Thumbnail avatar
0 · September 13, 2011 at 8:06 PM

I agree that she should be at least at 60ng/ml, however, I think taking 10000IU with breakfast is outside of anything her ancestors likely *ate* and it's therefore *possibly* safer to have a preference for endogenous production in the skin first and then later supplement in a way that is spaced out.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab
0 · September 13, 2011 at 7:52 PM

I agree except regarding your Vitamin D suggestions. I believe there is sufficient evidence to support supplementing for pregnancy & lactation. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18689394 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15585800 Due to the increased prevalence of rickets in the Western world, I am pretty passionate about this topic! http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17600035 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20974417

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab
0 · September 13, 2011 at 7:33 PM

Travis~ If a woman is eating a Primal/Paleo/WAP diet with liver weekly, it is unlikely that she will suffer from a retinol deficiency. We aren't talking about a woman on a SAD diet here, otherwise, I would agree with you!

Thumbnail avatar
0 · September 13, 2011 at 7:24 PM

I think a greater concern for most people is a lack of retinol, that can then lead to poor eyesight, allergies etc.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b
0 · September 13, 2011 at 7:03 PM

Way to go mama! I did that a few years ago, and just felt like I needed to eat a little more in general, but I didn't focus on any particular micronutrients (though in retrospect I probably should have). It certainly couldn't hurt to make sure you are getting enough iron, I ended up a bit anemic afterwards. The little ones also suckle the omega-3's right outta ya, so some cod liver oil or fish oil would probably be good too.

F074daf8ee19a4c101c533b7fdab708a
0 · September 13, 2011 at 6:57 PM

Good work Mama! Hope you get some good answers, cause you are doing a great job!

8d454fc50d6d58643d6f8b0d1e7ea8ea
0 · September 13, 2011 at 5:33 PM

I have no advice, but just want to applaud both you and your acquaintance for being open to sharing breastmilk. I also had a lazy nurser and was told to supplement with formula - I refused, instead pumping to supplement w/a bottle. It was so hard, and I so wished I had an open-minded mama friend to share milk with my baby. Kudos.

Total Views
904

Recent Activity
0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

Last Activity
27D AGO

Followers
0

Get Free Paleo Recipes Instantly

7 Answers

Medium avatar
4
39821 · September 13, 2011 at 7:18 PM

Firstly, I want to say that what you're doing is quite generous and truly admirable. Regarding nutrition, I would say that your best bet would be to really focus on eating organ meats frequently (as I stated before, it's my belief that a few mouthfuls eaten frequently is probably a better way to extract the greatest % of nutrients from it). You would also want to focus on eating a lot of pastured egg yolks, given that they are great sources of cholesterol and essential fatty acids that these babies need for brain development. I eat 4 a day myself that are hard-boiled so that there is as little degradation as possible. You should probably drink a lot of mineral water to replace the calcium and magnesium that are being leached out of your bones. The K2 from the organs and egg yolks will aid in remineralization.

This is a case where I'd actually be hesitant to recommend supplements because though the mineral content of breast milk is tightly regulated and not necessarily influenced day-to-day by diet, therapeutic doses of vitamins or minerals outside of the bounds of our evolutionary history may actually be dangerous for these kids. Now, when you stop breast feeding eventually, you'll be less restricted and can more aggressively replete those minerals. The generally accepted post-natal vitamins are probably fine though. I think it might be safer to get vitamin D from the sun for as long as possible and then supplement with small amounts (500-1000iu) spread out over the course of the day just in case.

Cod liver oil shouldn't be necessary if you're eating enough pastured egg yolks, but if you were able to find a DHA supplement that is tested for heavy metals and so on, that may be a worthwhile thing to consume.

This is a case where I'd say that you'd want to be eating a lot of grass-fed animal fat and of course I would say you shouldn't really dip below 200g of carbohydrates.

Regarding oysters, unless you can be certain that you've sourced them from pristine waters (on another planet?) I would avoid them. I'm a lot more conservative about these sorts of things when we're talking about an infant.

Good luck.

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f
0 · September 14, 2011 at 1:47 AM

About 4 months ago I tested at 65.1 for D levels and I've continued taking about 4000iu daily since then since I don't get much sun. (I live in new England and babies have this annoying habit of naturally napping between the hours for Noon and 3ish). I'm getting another blood test this week and I'll know the results in 2 weeks.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab
0 · September 13, 2011 at 11:27 PM

For sure, that's why I always recommend that my clients get tested every 6 months.

Thumbnail avatar
0 · September 13, 2011 at 10:38 PM

That's an excellent find and you're right, it appears to be tightly regulated even when therapeutic doses are ingested. I guess my concern would be the same as it is for people who dose with 10K IU for a while and end up over 100 ng/ml like this guy: http://paleohacks.com/questions/49308/stopping-vitamin-d#axzz1Xo8JdZ79 If a mother reached that level, I think it could be harmful to the baby as well. We have mechanisms for breaking down excess vitamin D in the skin, but we do not appear to for dietary vitamin D.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab
0 · September 13, 2011 at 9:46 PM

Obviously they were working with D-deficient moms, but it doesn't appear that "high" doses of maternal D supplementation spilled over into the breast milk.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab
0 · September 13, 2011 at 9:45 PM

Travis~ You may find this study interesting: http://www.jacn.org/content/27/6/690.full "When lactating mothers received 6400 IU/day vitamin D3 for 6 months, their mean milk vitamin D activity increased from 82 to 873 IU/L (Fig. 1). This increase in vitamin D supply to the infant achieved infant vitamin D status equal to that observed with direct infant supplementation of 300 IU/day (46 ng/ml versus 43 ng/ml, respectively) (Fig. 2). In addition, mothers demonstrated significant improvement in vitamin D status."

Thumbnail avatar
0 · September 13, 2011 at 8:29 PM

I'm sure we're likely splitting hairs here, but because it's fat soluble, there *may* be a possibility of it spilling over to a greater than optimal extent in breast milk, though I think most of the D in breast milk is actually water soluble vitamin D sulphate. The OP seems pretty on top of things, so I don't think we'd be choosing between her taking it at all vs. spaced out.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab
0 · September 13, 2011 at 8:21 PM

Sure, but it's not very practical for most moms to remember to supplement spaced regularly over the day. If I can get my clietns to remember to take their D in the monring and Magnesium at night, I consider myself lucky! More important to make sure her level is adequate, regardless of means, IMO. I don't agree that just because we weren't used to eating that much D at once that it is really an issue. I just don't think that spacing it out is as important as you seem to think. Our bodies are pretty adaptable and used to "feast" or "famine".

Thumbnail avatar
0 · September 13, 2011 at 8:06 PM

I agree that she should be at least at 60ng/ml, however, I think taking 10000IU with breakfast is outside of anything her ancestors likely *ate* and it's therefore *possibly* safer to have a preference for endogenous production in the skin first and then later supplement in a way that is spaced out.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab
0 · September 13, 2011 at 7:52 PM

I agree except regarding your Vitamin D suggestions. I believe there is sufficient evidence to support supplementing for pregnancy & lactation. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18689394 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15585800 Due to the increased prevalence of rickets in the Western world, I am pretty passionate about this topic! http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17600035 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20974417

6229cd9a7ca9882590259fae022e2647
4
3219 · September 13, 2011 at 5:00 PM

I've read here on the forums that increasing your saturated fats such as with coconut oil will boost your milk supply. Wonderful of you to give to your friend's newborn.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
3
16131 · September 13, 2011 at 5:05 PM

I know Travis will be here soon to talk about this subject, but think about zinc and foods high in zinc - the oysters. I nursed too - did pump a lot as well and I think my zinc tanked. It is said that nursing and pregnancy really take a tole on a woman's stores of this mineral.

1a0976c846702f549ee4df0d811098be
2
972 · September 13, 2011 at 8:57 PM

I nursed twins, but I wasn't paleo when I did. I did notice, though, that my supply was very directly affected by how much fat I ate and how much water I drank. The increased need for fat while pregnant/breastfeeding is part of what helped me discover paleo. Also, water was a very time-sensitive need. I had to make sure I drank water right before/during nursing or pumping. I would often chug a water bottle while both my boys were latched on. Kind of like a weird water to milk conversion machine.

F1b82cc7e6d90384ad30007dd6c1b9e3
0
1187 · September 13, 2011 at 8:53 PM

chiropractic adjustments for the baby, it may be a structural problem limiting jaw, tongue motion, and/or neck motion

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f
0 · September 13, 2011 at 9:00 PM

They've tried all that. He has a weird form Of tongue tie, not the usual bottom Frenulum or upper lip. It'll require surgery with an ENT in Another state because no doctors will Do the surgery in rhode island, meanwhile he's getting more And more frustrated at breast and she's losing supply. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab
0
32518 · September 13, 2011 at 7:07 PM

Do you know your D level? If your Vitamin D level isn't above 40-50 ng/ml, your breastmilk will not contain much, if any D.

Be careful of supplementing cod liver oil and eating liver. Too easy to get excessive Vitamin A.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab
0 · September 14, 2011 at 3:12 AM

Ideally,(IMO) you are getting around 10,000 IUs/day average and no more than 20,0000 IUs of pre-formed retinol per day average from ALL sources. How much A is in your cod liver oil? If it's Green Pastures, they can't tell you. Ultimately, YOU are the expert on your body. Because I work with pregnant moms, I am hyper aware of Vitamin A toxicity as a possibility with a Primal/WAP diet + supplements.

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f
0 · September 14, 2011 at 1:58 AM

I love my cod liver oil. I thought that as long as the A, D, and K2 are balanced and from animal sources (not beta carotene or D2) that it's relatively safe as long as you don't go eating artic seal livers. No?

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab
0 · September 13, 2011 at 7:33 PM

Travis~ If a woman is eating a Primal/Paleo/WAP diet with liver weekly, it is unlikely that she will suffer from a retinol deficiency. We aren't talking about a woman on a SAD diet here, otherwise, I would agree with you!

Thumbnail avatar
0 · September 13, 2011 at 7:24 PM

I think a greater concern for most people is a lack of retinol, that can then lead to poor eyesight, allergies etc.

F46d472ee4e097afd7e0081ed6f6ab21
0
745 · September 13, 2011 at 4:59 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_raspberry_leaf

Some raspberry leaf tea may help.

Answer Question

Login to Your PaleoHacks Account