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Homocysteine and collagen

by (15226)
Updated about 17 hours ago
Created September 05, 2011 at 12:04 AM

Hi, what is the relationship between homocysteine levels and collagen synthesis? Dr Emily Deans wrote about it in her blog and it made me wanna know more. This first paper seems to support her idea that it causes a reduction in collagen while the other one seems to say the opposite. Maybe I don't know enough biochem to know the difference in types of collagen though. Thanks

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC302517/pdf/jcinvest00185-0193.pdf

http://atvb.ahajournals.org/content/17/10/2074.full

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661
15226 · September 27, 2012 at 12:05 AM

or the same thing that causes high homocysteine may be also doing something else to cause CVD

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661
15226 · September 27, 2012 at 12:04 AM

It may be associated with and not causative

27361737e33ba2f73ab3c25d2699ad61
1880 · December 07, 2011 at 6:43 PM

Uh, since when is what most people believe persuasive. After all, most people believe that heaps of whole grains and very low fat diets are the Holy Grail against cvd. McCully is correct that homocysteine can be lowered by gobbling odd amounts of b vites. He was and remains incorrect that lowereing homocysteine in this way prevents cvd. Maybe homocysteine is a marker of some underlying condition but not the cause. But I think it's mostly just a red herring.

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5132 · December 07, 2011 at 4:53 PM

Actually most people regard McCully's theory in positive light nowadays. What's accepted is that homocysteine, along with Lpa are independent risk factors for CVD. U can still pick out people with higher CVD risk this way. If it's a marker, it makes sense that trying to disguise that marker without changing the underlying condition won't affect elevated CVD risk. The same way some think LP(a) reduction may not actually reduce CVD risk.

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3280 · December 05, 2011 at 1:28 AM

Agree with too much testing = anxiety = health risk...!

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5132 · December 05, 2011 at 12:17 AM

What's in unfiltered coffee (e.g., instant coffee) that could raise homocysteine? And why wouldn't lowering chronically high homocysteine reduce CVD risk?

2b2c2e4aa87e9aa4c99cae48e980f70d
1059 · October 23, 2011 at 8:53 PM

Doc, English, por favor?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094
78422 · September 25, 2011 at 6:38 PM

Quilt, that depends I guess.... B12 can be supplemented as methylcoabalamin, cyanocobalamin etc...

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
25467 · September 05, 2011 at 2:14 AM

B vitamins do cause HC to drop. And collagen is very affected by methyl transfers.....of which vitamin B do a ton.

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661
15226 · September 05, 2011 at 2:02 AM

Well I think she was saying the levels can be lowered but there is no reduction in heart disease risk with the B-vitamin lowered levels.

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6 Answers

27361737e33ba2f73ab3c25d2699ad61
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1880 · December 04, 2011 at 11:05 PM

Unfiltered coffee raises homocysteine levels. Stress can raise homocysteine levels. Some studies have shown that women's homocysteine levels fluctuate throughout the menstrual cycle. Anxiety before the blood draw is enough to make the level higher than it normally would be. Any so-called high or higher than ideal homocysteine level should be rechecked before a person starts gobbling downs copious amounts of pills to lower it. If it is chronically high, lowering it with bs will not reduce your risk of heart attack. I'm beginning to think too much blood testing and the resultant anxiety may be a risk factor for heart attack...

Fb67dc30cead043d1d13ea503a3044dc
3280 · December 05, 2011 at 1:28 AM

Agree with too much testing = anxiety = health risk...!

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8
5132 · December 05, 2011 at 12:17 AM

What's in unfiltered coffee (e.g., instant coffee) that could raise homocysteine? And why wouldn't lowering chronically high homocysteine reduce CVD risk?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094
2
78422 · September 25, 2011 at 6:37 PM

It probably reduces collagen levels because homocisteine is elevated in inflammation which destroys collagen as collateral damage. B vitamins are typically used with CVD patients to reduce level of HC. If you wish to improve collagen strength, your best bet for now is vitamin C and lysine.

452d03a20a028363bf4a4e093740581b
2
20 · September 11, 2011 at 4:35 PM

Homocysteine can be really reduced by B vitamins. Homocysteine is converted to metionine by folate. To folate work there B12 is needed. For homocysteine to be converted to cystatione and cystatione degraded B6 is needed. Some enzymes there also need B2. When you give B vitamins these enzymes= molecular macchines start to work more. This is the point.

27361737e33ba2f73ab3c25d2699ad61
1
1880 · December 07, 2011 at 4:10 PM

@ Namby Pamby,

Re: coffee -- google it -- many theories abound. It's a your mileage may vary thing as for how you respond to coffee in general and unfiltered coffee specifically. I hope my unfiltered coffee comment doesn't get people trading in their walnut Halloween costumes (fear of omega-6) for espresso cup Halloween costumes (fear of terpenes). That wasn't my intention and all of this coffee talk has me jonesing for a double espresso. Re: why lowering homocysteine via gobbling gargantuan amounts of b vites doesn't lower cvd? -- maybe because homocysteine quite possibly has nothing to do with cvd and McCully's theory was/is wrong. Maybe so called elevated homocysteine means different things in different people and/or in people of different sexes and/or in people undergoing various stress. Association is not causation and the idea that owering homocysteine via b vites would lower cvd did not pan out. Don't believe me -- google it. I would blame chronic stress as a big factor in cvd and would recommend those worried about cvd invest in practicing daily meditation instead of worrying about how to lower homocysteine levels. That's it, I am going for that double espresso...

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8
5132 · December 07, 2011 at 4:53 PM

Actually most people regard McCully's theory in positive light nowadays. What's accepted is that homocysteine, along with Lpa are independent risk factors for CVD. U can still pick out people with higher CVD risk this way. If it's a marker, it makes sense that trying to disguise that marker without changing the underlying condition won't affect elevated CVD risk. The same way some think LP(a) reduction may not actually reduce CVD risk.

27361737e33ba2f73ab3c25d2699ad61
1880 · December 07, 2011 at 6:43 PM

Uh, since when is what most people believe persuasive. After all, most people believe that heaps of whole grains and very low fat diets are the Holy Grail against cvd. McCully is correct that homocysteine can be lowered by gobbling odd amounts of b vites. He was and remains incorrect that lowereing homocysteine in this way prevents cvd. Maybe homocysteine is a marker of some underlying condition but not the cause. But I think it's mostly just a red herring.

531b053b68e92ac509fc1544f88dc103
0
1200 · September 26, 2012 at 11:25 PM

If lowering homocysteine with B vitamins doesn't reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease, then how the hell does higher homocysteine levels cause heart disease? That doesn't make any sense.

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661
15226 · September 27, 2012 at 12:05 AM

or the same thing that causes high homocysteine may be also doing something else to cause CVD

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661
15226 · September 27, 2012 at 12:04 AM

It may be associated with and not causative

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8
0
5132 · September 05, 2011 at 1:52 AM

I read that blog too. What I don't understand is her claim that homocysteine levels can be lowered by taking B vitamins. My understanding is that that's not the case.

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661
15226 · September 05, 2011 at 2:02 AM

Well I think she was saying the levels can be lowered but there is no reduction in heart disease risk with the B-vitamin lowered levels.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
25467 · September 05, 2011 at 2:14 AM

B vitamins do cause HC to drop. And collagen is very affected by methyl transfers.....of which vitamin B do a ton.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094
78422 · September 25, 2011 at 6:38 PM

Quilt, that depends I guess.... B12 can be supplemented as methylcoabalamin, cyanocobalamin etc...

2b2c2e4aa87e9aa4c99cae48e980f70d
1059 · October 23, 2011 at 8:53 PM

Doc, English, por favor?

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