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Lethargic after eating fatty meats or fats

by (5)
Updated about 11 hours ago
Created August 06, 2014 at 1:22 PM

I was in a Paleo VLC keto diet for 7 weeks. It didn???t worked. After each meal I would feel lethargic. ironically I felt great while fasting. One day I did fasting for 24 hours and I had a lot of energy, but after eating 6oz of beef liver meat and 1\2 cup of broccoli and butter I started feeling lethargic.

I even tried to rise a bit my carbs with safe starches . I noticed some improvements in my sleep and mood (just before eating), but the lethargic feeling still persisted after meals. I thought it was because of too many protein, so I lowered them and increased fats, but it still persisted. I tried digestive enzymes, it didn???t worked either. After 10 weeks I gave up, and now I started a high-carbs and low protein diet, but just with safe starches. After eating I don???t have sleepiness anymore, but my mood is dysphoric and am unmotivated, I feel hungry just after 2 hours of eating, right now I am in a deep depression.

I took all my blood tests, everything is alright. Thyroid, glucose, insulin, etc. I just have my eosinophils high. My doctor says its an allergy or a parasite. I think its an allergy to some vegetables, but even when removing vegetables, I would feel lethargic after eating any kind of fatty meats. My blood tests say that I dont have any infections, and fungi don???t cause high eosinophils.

After reading the metabolic typing diet (Dr. George Watson) I think I am a slow oxidizer, I don???t understand the scientific explanation but its the only explanation about my lethargic feelings after eating protein and fats, its so sad for me after reading the books grain brain, Perfect health diet, potato not Prozac and a lot of articles about Palo diet, I have depression since my teen years, dysphoric depression, apathy, just dysphoric, unmotivated and low energy.

I can???t understand why not paleo works, fats make me feel lethargic, I have 27 years, I weight 118 lbs, 168 cm, very skinny, its hard for me to me wake up in the mornings, I tried a lot of psychiatric meds and none of them worked, only desvenlafaxine, just after suspending it my depression lifted for 3 days. I think an ultra low dose was in my blood, surprisingly the days when my depression was lifted my sleep was perfect, easy to fall asleep and easy to wake up in the morning, with the paleo diet just for 2 days I woke up easily in the morning with good mood, my depression lifted but after eating breakfast the lethargic feeling brought my depression back.

Since two days ago I am in a high carb diet 70% carbs, 25% protein, 5% fats, I don???t get the lethargic feeling after eating but my mood is very, very dysphoric, even I have a deep depression right now, I don???t feel a lot of energy like when I was fasting in the paleo diet, right now i am using paleo safe starches to make the slow oxidizer diet.

This one example of my breakfast that lifted my depression:

1 tbspoon of coconut oil 37g of fried plantains 3 boiled eggs 85g of cabbage 85g of cucumbers

I feel a lot of energy with this breakfast and my depression lifted but after 2 hours I ate 45g of walnuts and the lethargic feeling brings my depression back, I tried to reproduce my breakfast other days and it didn???t work.

What do you think about slow oxidizer hypothesis? Why do I get lethargy after eating fats? I have tried everything. I have searched and investigated a lot but nothing seems to help, I am taking probiotics , supplements, I research a lot, slow oxidizer is the only answer for now.

 

UPDATE (august 30): i am still eating paleo with safe starches (high carb, moderate protein, low fat), i am still tired or lethargic after eating my low fat meals (then fatty meats or fats wasnt the issue?) , i have been trying since a lot of days eating with 3 capsules of digestive enzymes plus ox bile in each meal without improvements (then low stomach acid or underactive gallbladder wasnt the issue?), right now I am with paleo carb diet. I am the same old guy like in my teenyears, i am lazy, unmotivated, poor appetite, dysphoric, and i am lethargic after eating but its too hard for me to eat right now, i force myself to eat, its hard to me wake up in the mornings, i have poor apetite since i was a child, doctors said to my parents that i dont have any disease, all my exams are ok, i will take a glucose tolerance test next monday but i know i will be ok, i am frustrated, Undermethylation can cause my symptoms? i am reading right now about MTHFR gene, thanks for your help.

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5 · August 30, 2014 at 5:03 PM

UPDATE: i have more of two weeks in a paleo safe starches diet, lethargic after eating is still a issue, the monday i will take a glucose tolerance test, MTHFR undermethylation can cause lethargic feeling after eating? i tried even eating with 3 capsules of digestive enzymes with oxbile and didnt work.

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5 · August 11, 2014 at 1:11 AM

but with VLC diet I don't had morning woods, only after introducing safe starches carbs I had its, maybe low calories was the problem? Or too low carbs? I am reconsidering seriously the slow oxidizer hypothesis, today I read that slow oxidizers have low bile production and since yesterday the coconut oil is giving to me drowsiness, I dont understand why now the coconut oil is giving to me drowsiness or lethargic feeling, fats cause this, maybe oils slow down the digestion process, I dont know and I don't know what to do. I am waiting my "now foods super enzymes" that contain ox bile.

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17136 · August 11, 2014 at 12:57 AM

Morning wood is a good sign of health.

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5 · August 08, 2014 at 4:22 PM

I will buy the enzymes with oxbile, I will back to my low carb paleo and I will try it again, thank you so much for your advices.

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17136 · August 08, 2014 at 3:41 PM

Does your heart rate (beats/minute) go up about 30mins after eating? If so that's a good sign of a food intolerance. See:

http://blog.bioticsresearch.com/2012/03/05/testing...

and

http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0201hyglibcat/0201...

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17136 · August 08, 2014 at 3:39 PM

You feel lethargic because the blood goes to your stomach to digest and your stomach is probably not capable of proper digestion at this time, then if you eat carbs, your insulin spikes a bit making you feel sleepier on top of that. The more I read your comments, the more I think you're too low in bile or stomach acid. Try some digestive enzymes, maybe 2-3 pills before each meal. Now Super Enzyme capsules work for me and are inexpensive. Try those if you can, if not something with oxbile and betaine-hcl.

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17136 · August 08, 2014 at 3:35 PM

Maybe you're too used to undereating and your digestive system adapted to that level, so even though you undereat, it feels normal and you fill up. Try to slowly increase your intake. I normally don't like recommending counting calories, but you need to at least eat 1.2x your BMR requirements (higher if you do endurance sports or other high intensity workouts.) If you plan on going higher fat, maybe try a digestive enzyme that has oxbile in it.

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480 · August 08, 2014 at 3:19 PM

Your grandmother....is a he?

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5 · August 08, 2014 at 3:03 PM

All my life I felt with low energy, apathy and dysphoric, I was thinking in hypoglycemia, you don't need to be overweight to have reactive hypoglycemia? My grandmother is hypoglycemic and his father diabetic.

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5 · August 08, 2014 at 3:00 PM

I am afraid of the lethargic feeling after eating, even I felt better fasting than eating, I need cook the rice with the 6 tbsp of fat? Recently I drink 1 tablespoon of coconut oil and I felt a lot of energy, but I drink two tablespoons more and I felt nausea and lethargic, so I think too much fat is the issue

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5 · August 08, 2014 at 2:53 PM

9 days ago my fasting insulin blood test was fine, 3.3, I didn't test my cortisol levels.

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5 · August 08, 2014 at 2:49 PM

I am not convinced, is the only explanation right now why I felt lethargic after eating fatty meats or fats, even dr mercola talks about the nutrition typing , I am veggie type, but ironically I have allergy or intolerance to some vegetables like lettuce, tomatoes, cucumbers and peppers

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5 · August 08, 2014 at 2:45 PM

You need feel energetic after eating, lethargic is a allergic reactions, drowsy isn't lethargic, if you feel drowsy you can sleep, but with lethargic feeling you can't sleep, I started eating a lettuce salad with tomatoes and cucumbers just before eating my fatty meats, I felt lethargic instantaneously, I have hidden food allergies to vegetables, sometimes I felt rhinitis just after eating a meal.

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5 · August 08, 2014 at 2:39 PM

my blood test of 9 days ago was ok, only high eosinophiles (parasite or food allergy, since several months my eosinophiles are high), t3 and t4 was ok, I don't test my rt3 because the test wasn't available.

I noticed that now I have mornings erections since I started my high carb diet like 3 days ago, when I was in ketogenic diet I didn't had it, my poop now is fine.

This my daily journal

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary/majinboox

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5 · August 08, 2014 at 2:37 PM

I noticed some floating poops or poop balls when I drink too much coconut oil, my appetite is low in a high carb diet (I felt too full with little food), I never enjoy the food in my regular carb diet.

with the keto diet I enjoyed the food and my appetite was better, my mood even was better sometimes and some days my depression lifted (before the breakfast), but the lethargic feeling after eating depres me, 3 day ago I started my regular diet (high carb) and I am having headaches, my mood is very disphoric (apathy), is hard to me woke up in the mornings (with keto too but now is even more hard

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41471 · August 08, 2014 at 1:58 PM

3) Diabetics? They're probably overweight, you're not overweight, you've got other problems (unless you're T1D and don't know it). You can eat carbs with an issue. Just do it.

4) And there's likely a mental aspect that's holding you back. You sound like you're "afraid" of the fatty meats and fats in your diet.

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41471 · August 08, 2014 at 1:57 PM

So you're woefully undereating, and have done so for most of your life.

1) You can eat more than 550 calories in a meal. I mean, that's not hard. Starch + fat, it's a tasty, calorific combo. Half a pound of potatoes, couple cups of rice with 4-6 tbsp of fat. 1200 calories right there. And if you're lactose tolerant… a gallon of whole milk = 2400 calories.

2) Ditch the cardio daily. Run a 5K once a week, to keep general cardio fitness up.

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480 · August 08, 2014 at 1:55 PM

Yeah it probably is a myth, like I said, who knows why we get drowsy after eating a big meal with a lot of fatty meat, it just happens. It would be nice to have some actual, conclusive scientific data on why we get drowsy after eating, that would be interesting to read, especially since at work I hate getting that drowsy feeling even after eating just a can of sardines, lol. Hard to concentrate on much when one is drowsy.

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41471 · August 08, 2014 at 1:49 PM

The tryptophan thing is a myth: http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/features/the-truth-about-tryptophan (Yes, I linked WebMD.)

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480 · August 08, 2014 at 1:28 PM

Some amino-acids like tryptophan apparently cause drowsiness, which is probably why we get so sleepy after eating certain meats, so maybe it's that or not, who knows. Either way if the OP is eating fatty meats alone, I doubt that's going to spike insulin too high, fatty meat is certainly not the best for that....

The allergy thing is a bit of an exaggeration on my part but in reality if it was an allergic reaction, there would be specific allergy symptoms, not just lethargy.

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281 · August 08, 2014 at 1:06 PM

Thanks, I was trying to remember the Thyroid part and stomach acid/bile but didn't trust my memory enough to add it to my answer.

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17136 · August 08, 2014 at 12:15 PM

He's already eating too little. IF will make it worse.

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17136 · August 08, 2014 at 12:14 PM

Yeah, there is a genetic basis for slow metabolizers but it's of drugs and things like caffeine (I'm one of those), but it has zero to do with how fast we digest food. :) Sounds like total BS to me, much like the blood type diet.

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17136 · August 08, 2014 at 12:13 PM

Right, but chronically undereating carbs can switch the thyroid to making reverse hormones instead, slowing down his overall metabolism, and if he's not eating enough fats, he won't make enough bile, and if he can't absorb minerals, he won't make enough stomach acid, so in a way, he'll slow down his digestion too, so the symptoms he attributes to "slow oxidation" are still seen, just that the cause isn't genetic. It's self induced through poor diet.

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17136 · August 08, 2014 at 11:13 AM

It's not perfectly normal, it's a sign of what insulin does. It might be perfectly normal in a SAD context, but not in terms of health. Either he's eating too many carbs and insulin drives his sugar low, or there's something wrong related to his insulin response. It can be an allergic reaction, though those usually raise the heart rate. There are different types of allergies, and they don't all involve rashes or being dead. See: IgG vs igA.

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281 · August 08, 2014 at 10:01 AM

Sounds like you're pretty convinced about this "slow oxidizer" thing. It has no basis in science though. The author of the book made up something that made sense to him. It's not tested, proven, or real.

If that's what's working for you though then, okay.

The only other suggestions I have are to eat your safe starches, fruits, veggies first and your meats and fats last. It helps some people who don't have a gall bladder. You could also try to only eat your fatty, heavy meals at night.

Undereating can also cause lethargy after eating foods that require more energy to digest.

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4393 · August 08, 2014 at 4:20 AM

i wonder if the whole slow/fast oxidizer thing actually relates to a methylation issue (mthfr gene mutation) ie. undermethylation/overmethylation

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41471 · August 08, 2014 at 1:49 AM

Except slow oxidizer isn't a thing.

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5 · August 08, 2014 at 12:39 AM

1) since I was a child I have problems with food, low appetite, I don't know why, chronically undereating is possible, but that dont explain the lethargic feeling "only" after eating fatty meats or a lot of fats (oils etc..)

2) ok, maybe a big mistake doing cardio.

3) Sorry, you wrong here, something in the puzzle don't fit, slow oxidizer makes a lot of sense about the lethargic feeling with high protein/fats meals, just read the comments of the link that you send me.

Thank you for your advices.

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5 · August 06, 2014 at 2:56 PM

Since my teen years I dont feel so much hungry between meals, my sister is very skinny too, I can't eat more of 550 calories per meal, I felt too full , I am only eating 3 main meals and 1 snack per day, is hard to me eat more of 1700 calories per day, I make elliptical machine 1 hour daily and light weights 3 times a week

My family is full of diabetics, what I can eat between meals that not cause insulin spikes if fats put me on lethargic state?, the lethargic state go away after 1 or 2 hours after eating but the dysphoric mood don't, walnuts and almonds give me the lethargic feeling.

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5 · August 06, 2014 at 2:30 PM

Sleepy is not my problem, is the lethargic feeling, you can't sleep lethargic , I feel something rare behind my eyes, tired, without energy, even depressed, someone who experience a lethargic feeling will understand me, sleepy is very different.

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17136 · August 08, 2014 at 12:09 PM

As everyone's said, you're undereating. This causes several problems including that your thyroid will produce more rT3, rT4 than T3 and T4 which will screw up your metabolism and energy levels further.

This in turn will cause adrenal signalling to release cortisol, in order to create more glucose via glucogenesis. It also raises your stress. Cortisol and insulin are related and dysfunction in cortisol may cause insulin reactivity issue.

Generally fatigue after eating is either a sign of too low blood sugar due to insulin spikes or adrenal fatigue.

Since you're not eating enough, you may also not be creating enough stomach acid - especially if you find that eating meat causes it to just sit there in your stomach. Since stomach acid is also a trigger for bile, this may prevent enough bile release, so fats don't get digested (you might see floating poops). If you don't have enough stomach acid, and enough bile, this can look to you as a "slow oxidizer". You can get around this issue by using digestive enzymes that contain oxbile and Betaine HCL until you produce enough acid and bile.

tl;dr if you choose to do a diet that includes Intermittent Fasting, or VLC, you'll need to eat the same amount of food as you would normally if you ate 3 meals a day for a person your size and your activity levels. If you decide to remove calories from carbs, you need to add them back into fats a little more to proteins.

It's very easy to feel full on a VLC or IF diet to the point of eating far less than what your Basal Metabolic Rate requires, in which case, you'll start catabolizing muscle and causing all sorts of unwanted problems.

I've been doing IF for too long myself and it's very easy to miss the signs. Just took a blood test recently and I find I have very high cortisol in the morning (time of the test), as well as high fasting blood glucose (caused by the cortisol), and higher rT3, rT4 than T3 and T4. That's a classic pattern caused by eating too little food. Though I'm not used to it, I started adding in breakfast and raising carbs.

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281 · August 08, 2014 at 1:06 PM

Thanks, I was trying to remember the Thyroid part and stomach acid/bile but didn't trust my memory enough to add it to my answer.

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5 · August 08, 2014 at 2:39 PM

my blood test of 9 days ago was ok, only high eosinophiles (parasite or food allergy, since several months my eosinophiles are high), t3 and t4 was ok, I don't test my rt3 because the test wasn't available.

I noticed that now I have mornings erections since I started my high carb diet like 3 days ago, when I was in ketogenic diet I didn't had it, my poop now is fine.

This my daily journal

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary/majinboox

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5 · August 08, 2014 at 2:53 PM

9 days ago my fasting insulin blood test was fine, 3.3, I didn't test my cortisol levels.

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5 · August 08, 2014 at 2:37 PM

I noticed some floating poops or poop balls when I drink too much coconut oil, my appetite is low in a high carb diet (I felt too full with little food), I never enjoy the food in my regular carb diet.

with the keto diet I enjoyed the food and my appetite was better, my mood even was better sometimes and some days my depression lifted (before the breakfast), but the lethargic feeling after eating depres me, 3 day ago I started my regular diet (high carb) and I am having headaches, my mood is very disphoric (apathy), is hard to me woke up in the mornings (with keto too but now is even more hard

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5 · August 30, 2014 at 5:30 PM

oxbile and Betaine HCL didnt work, i tried even 3 capsules of now food super enzymes with each meal, the next monday i will take a tolerance glucose test, i am tired after each meal, sometimes the lethargic feeling go away after 1 hour or sometimes not, i am lazy all the time, i have poor apetite, i felt too full easy, i dont enjoy the food or life, i dont know what to do.

Even i remember 2 years ago i take a fasting and post pandrial glucose test and all test results was ok, these day i just eat a pancake with orange juice, after minutes of eating i was tired and very lethargic, the feeling go away after 1 hour but the dysphoria and laziness still in me, the post pandrial blood test was ok, i dont know what to think now.

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83 · September 01, 2014 at 2:36 PM

What amount did you raise your carbs to? I recently went from VLC to eating more carbs myself & i've been wondering if i should start eating breakfast (and if that should include carbs) to try & maintain lean mass. I'm at about 100g carbs a day and struggle to fit in more as i don't eat fruit and only have potatoes with dinner, i do think my energy is better when i get up to about 200g.

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281 · August 06, 2014 at 4:01 PM

I can see a couple of problems right away.

1.) You are on the low end for BMI and it sounds like you may be chronically under eating. If you can't get more calories into regular meals or snacks then you're going to have to find ways to get them in liquid. Smoothies, protein shakes.

2.) Less cardio, heavier weights. VLC and under eating is not going to do you any favors with your daily hour on the elliptical. Chronic cardio is unhealthy to begin with. High fat/moderate protein/moderate to low carb is great for some heavy weights though and you might feel hungrier. If you can't give up the cardio, you're going to want more carbs and calories. Here is a good article: Paleo For The Active Person

3.) Just because someone throws out some science-y words and some half done studies, doesn't make them right. Always do your research. Metabolic Typing isn't Good Science

I could tell you that you should swallow a tapeworm because studies show it will make you thinner. And, I would be right but, that doesn't mean it's good for you or that you shouldn't research more before going out and buying a tapeworm.

Other things can cause what you describe like having your gall bladder removed, having low stomach acid, not enough good gut bacteria.

I wish you much luck on your journey and hope the articles help you. Feel better

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5 · August 08, 2014 at 12:39 AM

1) since I was a child I have problems with food, low appetite, I don't know why, chronically undereating is possible, but that dont explain the lethargic feeling "only" after eating fatty meats or a lot of fats (oils etc..)

2) ok, maybe a big mistake doing cardio.

3) Sorry, you wrong here, something in the puzzle don't fit, slow oxidizer makes a lot of sense about the lethargic feeling with high protein/fats meals, just read the comments of the link that you send me.

Thank you for your advices.

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83 · August 06, 2014 at 2:56 PM

I feel quite lethargic after eating much of anything early during the day so tend to have most of my calories in the late afternoon/evening, even if i snack at work during the day I feel like my energy dips while i'm digesting the food so usually fast right through til dinner, at most i'll have some nuts or fish to stop my belly rumbling.

I'd suggest trying out intermittent fasting, eating all your calories in an 8 or 6 hour window towards the end of the day, just make sure you're getting all your calories in that window.

I also find if I workout before my evening meal I can actually feel quite energized after eating and often feel like going for a stroll, even if I've just eaten 3,000kcal in one meal.

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17136 · August 08, 2014 at 12:15 PM

He's already eating too little. IF will make it worse.

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41471 · August 06, 2014 at 2:29 PM

118 pounds, 168 cm… you've got a BMI of 19, which is the very low end of normal, and for a guy, it's particularly low. Your lack of energy probably stems from chronic undereating. Eat 30-40% carbohydrate… eat about 3000 calories a day. See where that gets you.

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5 · August 06, 2014 at 2:56 PM

Since my teen years I dont feel so much hungry between meals, my sister is very skinny too, I can't eat more of 550 calories per meal, I felt too full , I am only eating 3 main meals and 1 snack per day, is hard to me eat more of 1700 calories per day, I make elliptical machine 1 hour daily and light weights 3 times a week

My family is full of diabetics, what I can eat between meals that not cause insulin spikes if fats put me on lethargic state?, the lethargic state go away after 1 or 2 hours after eating but the dysphoric mood don't, walnuts and almonds give me the lethargic feeling.

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480 · August 06, 2014 at 2:17 PM

I feel lethargic too after eating a lot of anything, specially fatty meat, it's what makes thanksgiving dinner so great. Nothing like eating a whole bunch of turkey and then falling asleep on the couch while watching the game.

"My doctor says it's an allergy or a parasite." - that's ridiculous! You get sleepy and tired after eating a heavy meal, this is perfectly normal! What allergy? You'd be breaking out in rashes or be nearly dead if it was an allergy. Just take a nap after you eat a heavy meal or drink some coffee if you need to stay awake. Problem solved.

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5 · August 06, 2014 at 2:30 PM

Sleepy is not my problem, is the lethargic feeling, you can't sleep lethargic , I feel something rare behind my eyes, tired, without energy, even depressed, someone who experience a lethargic feeling will understand me, sleepy is very different.

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17136 · August 08, 2014 at 11:13 AM

It's not perfectly normal, it's a sign of what insulin does. It might be perfectly normal in a SAD context, but not in terms of health. Either he's eating too many carbs and insulin drives his sugar low, or there's something wrong related to his insulin response. It can be an allergic reaction, though those usually raise the heart rate. There are different types of allergies, and they don't all involve rashes or being dead. See: IgG vs igA.

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