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Methylation and Vit/Minerals, Possible Leaky Gut, Help Needed

by (88)
Updated about 24 hours ago
Created September 04, 2013 at 7:25 PM

EDITS: I am understanding more and more how Methylation contributes to overall health, and a lot of the health problems I've been having are seemingly linked to it.. What I didn't know was how sulfur in the diet affects this. I eat a lot of sulfur containing foods, sauerkraut, cruciferous veggies, eggs(2-3 daily), onions, garlic, spinach, etc. What would be the benefit of going on a low sulfur diet for a period of a month or so? (by the way, I also have high mercury, and low B-12, which apparently are signs of having problems with methylation due to sulfur intake... or something like that, all I know is that they're related.. anyone with info on this, I would really appreciate it! thanks!)

Hey all-

I got my Vit/Min absorbtion results back today, and I am good in all areas, except my B-6, B-12 (these were in the critical, red zone for low levels) and the ones that showed as the mid-range, bordering on low were: B-1, B-2, B-3, and B-9. So for some reason my B-vitamins seem to be low...

At the same time, my first half of this testing showed that I have a slight overgrowth of Enterobacter Cloacae, (but all my other gut bacteria levels, the healthy ones, are really high, so that at least is good) and that I am not digesting a small portion of the plant matter I eat 100% well.

Also I had to take an antibiotic to battle an infection in a wound I got on my leg working out(High box jump accident)

Also, I fear my gut may be not happy right now, given all the strain it's been forced to endure recently, so I'm wondering, aside from eating a lot more shellfish and organ meat(which I intend to do) what can I do to remedy the B-vitamin issues, and what should I do in regards to my diet as it relates to helping to heal my gut?

I fear I have minor Leaky Gut syndrome, as I do have mucus discharge(gross, I know) sometimes, especially in the shower in the morning, but I don't ever have indigestion or any of the other symptoms usually associated with leaky gut. Is it necessary for me to take a GAPS protocol and eliminate nightshades/spicy food and things like that, or do the signs I've reported not show much?

Also, I'm going to be taking oil of oregano, uva ursi, peppermint oil, and neem to get rid of the enterobacter cloacae, is there any advice regarding those herbal remedies I should read up on?

Thanks! any help is appreciated

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4393 · December 04, 2013 at 3:50 AM

sorry, in Australia, & the test cost me nothing...

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3280 · December 04, 2013 at 2:20 AM

Are you in the USA? Where did you get a blood histamine test? I've been looking for one but didn't have much luck. _Mike

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4393 · December 04, 2013 at 2:06 AM

no probs. i was tested with high blood histamine myself.

if you try any of the supplement recommendations, monitor your reactions closely, your body may respond differently. & try one thing at a time so you know

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3280 · December 04, 2013 at 1:45 AM

As an MTHFR person with high histamine issues, thanks for posting that link: histadelia/high histamine/undermethylated

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3280 · October 02, 2013 at 1:53 AM

And one more thing: since I seem to run into problems after changing my diet, and eating the same type of stuff breakfast, lunch & dinner until I reach some tipping point, I'm going to try this. Alternate meals with high potassium, then meals with higher sodium. I think I've run into problems when I have salty foods meal after meal, without getting enough potassium. I'm hopeful this might be good.

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3280 · October 02, 2013 at 12:39 AM

For my "food changes" , I wanted to remove the suspect item/class of foods for a week, then have lots of it breakfast, lunch & dinner, trying to provoke a reaction to help identify it. This is exactly opposite to a rotation diet approach which I didn't pursue because I wanted to understand exactly what I was reacting to. For example, if you didn't fully understand histamines, you might have left-overs on monday, avocado tuesday, very ripe banana wednesday, and be miserable all the time. It isn't till you understand that's all histamine, that you can make sensible decisions.

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3280 · October 02, 2013 at 12:35 AM

One lesson I learned is even if you rule out something that seems like it makes sense, it's good to double back and re-try. For example, I really thought I ruled out the potassium/sodium thing but I now think maybe I didn't reach the right conclusion. Also, don't get too emotionally invested in a particular hypothesis. Each time I had a hypothesis, I was convinced that was the root of all my problems. I told everyone, and looked like a nut job when I had to move onto my next theory.

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3280 · October 02, 2013 at 12:33 AM

In my case, I didn't have a column for how much salt and how much potassium, and I now think that was really relevant. Also, I thought I only had one problem, and all my symptoms must be related. I now think that high histamine foods can indeed make you sneeze, but that doesn't mean that low potassium doesn't cause cramping and headaches. One mistake I keep making is changing too many variables at once.

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3280 · October 02, 2013 at 12:30 AM

Here's what I did which lead me to this point (although in retrospect, it wasn't very efficient). Having discovered that a strict elimination diet resolved my symptoms, I concluded it was something I was ingesting. One by one, I eliminated each of the top most common allergens. Then I use the failsafe protocol to eliminate things like MSG, amines, sulfites, salicylates, etc. I posted lots & lots of questions here asking about electrolytes, and tried different supplements. Here's an important tip:If you are going to use a food diary, you need to track everything! - CONTINUED

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88 · October 01, 2013 at 3:17 AM

What type of protocol did you have to go on? Can you give me any advice?

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88 · September 30, 2013 at 5:40 PM

I thought cruciferous veggies and things like eggs WERE highly sulfuric.. I found a list of "high sulfur foods", which listed those as ones to eliminate

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88 · September 30, 2013 at 5:36 PM

I just put in my samples for the genetic tests at 23andme, I'm wating for the results to come back at the moment

I haven't ever noticed bad reactions with eggs, except when I used an egg white protein powder which gave me terrible gut issues, so I assumed the whites were problematic for me in large amounts.. I tend to eat around 3 eggs a day, and sometimes only just the yolks

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41422 · September 30, 2013 at 2:53 AM

The "sulfurous" foods you describe don't have more sulfur in them than most others. The sulfur they do contain isn't used as amino-acid-based sulfur is.

I was referring to methionine, B12 and folate containing foods - that's animal products, that's cystiene and methionine.

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88 · September 29, 2013 at 11:53 PM

What do you mean "that's not low sulfur either?" Do you mean I don't need to avoid sulfur rich foods, or that what I listed wasn't low sulfur, because I was listing my current diet of foods which have a LOT of sulfur in them

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3280 · September 30, 2013 at 8:18 PM

I am delighted to see a post here on methylation!!! I was just diagnosed with MTHFR 1298 (homo: +/+) and am hopeful this might tie everything together for me.

During the last 3 years of keeping a food diary, I eventually figured out that I am sensitive to high-histamine foods (stereo typical sneezing fits). The confusing this is that histamine can also be related to headaches & muscle cramps/twitting, brain fog and several other problems I was having as well. In researching MTHFR, I found plenty of references to MTHFR folks having elevated histamine - it felt so validating!

I also found references to methylation and low potassium. I've posted many times here investigating whether electrolytes might be the root cause of my muscle cramps and headaches. I have many, many instances in my food diary where I had problems when consuming relatively small amounts of salt. My current hypothesis (which I'm day 2 into) is that potassium and sodium and antagonists. If my potassium is low-ish, having satly foods drives it lower, and eventually there might be a tipping point. I'm going try lots of high potassium fruits & veggies while keeping salt low.

If you are MTHFR, it's REALLY REALLY IMPORTANT for you to take mehtyl-B12 (and not regular B12), and L-Methyl-Folate and not regular/synthetic folic acid.

For the last several weeks, I've been taking 3.75mg of each (as a single combo sublingual from www.methyl-life.com ). BTW, I really like the video on their home page by the company's owner who describes her personal health journey and how it related to MTHFR.

I read something last night which suggested that perhaps mega doses of B12 & folate might drive down potassium even further, so I might switch to their 1.75mg folate/2.5mg B12, while concentrating on potassium rich foods, and keeping salt down

The $99 dollar 23andme.com DNA test was a life changing event for my family. Once I learned of my MTHFR status, I let my brother know. He had been suffering from what now is obviously B12 deficiency symptoms for years (dizziness, anxiety, nerve pain, and he was beginning to stumble). After just 1 week on the methyl-B12, the dizziness had resolved 90%, and he had that for 3 years!) . His anxiety level which had always been "at level 9" where 10 is max, dropped to 1 after 1 week. He discontinued his anti-anxiety drugs. He had been seen by multiple doctors (and a neurologist), and had a complete workup, but no one detected his B12. It turns out that 8 years ago, he had a relatively low B12 (300 score). BTW, a growing school of thought is that the lower # in the lab range is too low, and that people start to experience neurological symptoms below 450 or 500. The current lab range is like 200-1100. BTW, Japan just increased their lower # to 600 or 650. Back to my brother: he doesn't take vitamins, eats a terrible SAD diet, and takes Nexium (acid suppressor) which impairs your ability to "digest"/break down B12. It also turns out both his daughters appear to be suffering from early signs of B12 deficiency. We are waiting on the DNA test results to confirm their status. I was really shocked when I was reading up on MTHFR that is was specifically linked to OCD (exactly what his daughter is suffering terribly with). BTW, she was on several drugs which deplete B12 & folate (birth control pills, anti-acid drug, and anti-depressant).

BTW, I really like the book: "Could it be B12" : (http://www.amazon.com/Could-It-Be-B12-Misdiagnoses/dp/1884995691/ref=tmm_pap_title_0) It's shocking how pervasive B12 deficiency is, and how it and maskarade as a variety of different problems.

Regards,

Mike

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3280 · October 02, 2013 at 12:30 AM

Here's what I did which lead me to this point (although in retrospect, it wasn't very efficient). Having discovered that a strict elimination diet resolved my symptoms, I concluded it was something I was ingesting. One by one, I eliminated each of the top most common allergens. Then I use the failsafe protocol to eliminate things like MSG, amines, sulfites, salicylates, etc. I posted lots & lots of questions here asking about electrolytes, and tried different supplements. Here's an important tip:If you are going to use a food diary, you need to track everything! - CONTINUED

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88 · October 01, 2013 at 3:17 AM

What type of protocol did you have to go on? Can you give me any advice?

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529 · September 30, 2013 at 6:38 AM

Regarding leaky gut, you might try supplementing with DGL (deglycerrhyzinated licorice root) with no additives(promotes regrowth of intestinal lining), and L-glutamine ("food currency" of the intestines -- ensure adequate hydration, and be careful of dosing too high or starting at too high a dose).

Of course, if you desire, you could also test for leaky gut through antibodies (though unsure how accurate this is).

More bone broths & grass-fed gelatin & connective tissues & marrow, and clean seafood, never hurt a diet.

Have you done any genetic testing for methylation / MTHFR issues?

Seems like a genetic issue, potentially -- and one that has not necessarily damaged the gut significantly.

You could try targeted B-vitamin supplements, especially if you determine the cause/structure of the low B-vitamin dysfunction a bit better.

GAPS/autoimmune elimination-testing can't really hurt, either; though most gut-lining/overgrowth issues (part of the domain of GAPS) can be potentially be tested for fairly easily if you have the means(& have not already).

Nightshade/histamine/various other sensitivities or intolerances can be very important knowledge. And, reactions to something in your foodstuffs such as eggs, nightshades, oxalates (spinach), histamine.... are quite common.

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88 · September 30, 2013 at 5:36 PM

I just put in my samples for the genetic tests at 23andme, I'm wating for the results to come back at the moment

I haven't ever noticed bad reactions with eggs, except when I used an egg white protein powder which gave me terrible gut issues, so I assumed the whites were problematic for me in large amounts.. I tend to eat around 3 eggs a day, and sometimes only just the yolks

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4393 · September 30, 2013 at 3:16 AM

Histamine levels 'hook in' to the methylation subject as well & could be a factor/symptom (high or low).

Here are a few related links that may be of use (all from the same site),

histadelia/high histamine/undermethylated

histapenia/low histamine/overmethylated

pyroluria

... may be see if any of your symptoms closely match any of these three disorders*

* I don't think any mainstream doctors recognise any of these as illnesses or disorders as such

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3280 · December 04, 2013 at 1:45 AM

As an MTHFR person with high histamine issues, thanks for posting that link: histadelia/high histamine/undermethylated

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41422 · September 29, 2013 at 8:56 PM

Did you get homocysteine levels checked? I think that's a better measure of methylation status than anything. Methionine-containing foods, B12, folate... all things you need to be consuming. That's not low sulfur either.

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88 · September 29, 2013 at 11:53 PM

What do you mean "that's not low sulfur either?" Do you mean I don't need to avoid sulfur rich foods, or that what I listed wasn't low sulfur, because I was listing my current diet of foods which have a LOT of sulfur in them

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