full muscle glycogen + low liver glycogen = ketosis - PaleoHacks.com

full muscle glycogen + low liver glycogen = ketosis

2012-04-04T14:45:40Z

my question is concerning muscle glycogen, liver glycogen and ketosis.

If your following a targeted ketogenic approach where you consume carbohydrate pre workout and possibly post workout without interrupting ketosis because you are not impacting on liver glycogen much at all would that consistent state of ketosis be harmful for the organs the liver is responsible for fueling or would it not matter from a health standpoint?

in other words: does a constant state of ketosis while efficient for fat burning and insulin management be detrimental long term due to the catabolic nature of ketosis and

the fact it seems unnatural any hunter gatherers would have preferentially ate only starch and only replenished muscle glycogen while keeping liver low at all times.

such a diet does allows for the best of both worlds: to spare muscle, keep muscle glycogen full and burn fat constantly but then I think of hunter gatherers and nature and the whole design seems to fall apart: omitting consumption of the omnipresent fruit and the implication of it resulting in full liver glycogen at most times and thus being out of ketosis seems detrimental to hunter gatherers.

i guess this question could also be basically asking if ketosis is even natural or beneficial to the human body (i need ketosis to basically function it is a godsend to me) but i am just a skeptic because i want to make certain i am doing what is optimal and feel i must be fair in assessing that the reality of this beneficial situation may merely be a relfection of my western diet induced deranged carb metabolism and not a reflection of what is optimal for the human body.

Answer by Rob for full muscle glycogen + low liver glycogen = ketosis

2012-04-04T15:43:45Z

Hunter/gatherers didn't necessarily have carb heavy diets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit_diet

Answer by Dave S. for full muscle glycogen + low liver glycogen = ketosis

2012-04-04T16:52:41Z

I can't imagine a state where liver glycogen is low and muscle glycogen is high. If you eat starch, it will replenish liver glycogen. If you don't eat starch (or sugar), the liver will still replenish glycogen from protein (gluconeogenesis), catablizing muscle tissue, if necessary. The liver must have it's glycogen to keep the brain alive.

Maybe I'm wrong. And please feel free to jump all over me if I am.

But the liver is always going to have some glycogen, and when levels drop it will do what it has to do to get them back up.

Whether or not long term low carb/ketosis is healthy or not is another question for which I have no answer. But personally, I feel better with a few carbs.

Answer by August for full muscle glycogen + low liver glycogen = ketosis

2012-04-04T17:05:55Z

The liver is going to keep it's glycogen stores steady. It is the emergency supply for the body, especially the brain. Meanwhile, your muscle glycogen gets used locally in whatever muscle you exercise. So your plan isn't going keep liver glycogen low- liver glycogen will stay where the liver thinks it needs to be, whether you are in ketosis or not. In fact, this is why ketogenic diets are good for a host of blood sugar related problems- the liver keeps the blood sugar at a low but constant level.

If you are talking paleo levels of carbohydrate, then you shall replenish both your muscle and liver glycogen without pushing your blood sugar into dangerous territory, assuming you aren't metabolically deranged. The best time for carbs, in my humble opinion, is after heavy physical labor.

I don't know what, specifically your goal is, nor do I understand this idea that you can somehow achieve low liver glycogen while keeping your muscles full of the stuff. If ketosis is helping you, I suggest you stick with it. If you want to add carbs in order to gain more muscle, I suggest you stay in the 100-200g range. You don't have to go overboard- you probably don't want to eat more than 50g at any one time either. It is possible to have some carbs, and a little ketosis too. MCTs get turned into ketones regardless of carbs, and when we sleep at night it is possible to move into fat burning assuming you haven't overdone the carbs.