most recent 30 from http://paleohacks.com 2013-05-20T03:59:10Z http://paleohacks.com/feeds/question/145223 http://www.creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/2.5/rdf http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology Susan 2012-08-26T06:11:40Z 2012-12-28T21:41:16Z

<p>I am looking into opening a Dunkin' Donuts franchise (or similar chain) along with a few partners as an investment, but I'm having difficulty rationalizing the thought that I would be contributing to the crap-food SAD and be part of the reason that Americans are so unhealthy.</p> <p>What would you do? </p> <p>My daughter and I would not be eating anything we serve, but it's a moral/ethical dilemma for me to prey on/profit off of the ignorance/weakness/addiction of my customers, while simultaneously living the Paleo American dream. I don't want to go to Paleo hell of course - there will probably be a dunkin' donuts waiting for me, right past the main gate!</p> <p>[background]: I'm not sure what feedback I'm expecting, but I'm curious to hear what people think about this. Like anyone else in the world, my primary goals in life are to support my family (currently just my daughter) and live a long and happy life with her. Material wealth is not the goal but financial stability certainly is. I'm an officer in the military with a decent paycheck, but with certain zones of the world in question, I'm not sure my job is meeting my "long life" requirement. The market research has shown that financial success with this endeavor is almost a slam-dunk, we just need to get in asap before a competitor does...</p> <hr> <p>ETA: Thank you for all of the responses, it's been an interesting read. Just wanted to state that I asked, "what would you do?" Not, "what example am I setting for my daughter." While I appreciate the candor, understand that I'm a hormonal lactating Paleo mama who has made a crapload of sacrifices for her daughter in the name of health and love and questioning what I do with regard to her is turning on an instinct for which I am trying very hard to repress, were I to lose my cool I believe the mods would end up needing to delete my thread. </p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology/145224#145224 Paleomofo 2012-08-26T06:16:51Z 2012-08-26T06:16:51Z

<p>Do what you must do, financial stability for your family comes first. I would do it. It's not my fault people like Dunkin Donuts. There will be other opportunities to choose better jobs, but not for now. You need to support your family.</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology/145226#145226 Michael 2012-08-26T06:25:20Z 2012-08-26T06:25:20Z

<p>Seeing the people getting doughnuts all the time might horrify you and you might feel guilty but then again, the system is geared towards such establishments popping up, and whether or not you're part of it might be inconsequential. We all contribute to various extents to the functioning of the current capitalist/whatever system, with all its dysfucntion, but the question is to what degree. How does the academy/phd student feel in compairson to the compensation lawyer? O Different people will have different answers and prioriies, and feel differently about what they do. </p> <p>You are also coming from the military and probably contributing to the 'system' and the state's organistion of violence there, although that's problably a unhelpful, and possibly flawed analogy. Does note using teh self-service at teh supermarket subvert the system of labour cutting etc? I don't know.</p> <p>It's a tough question. There are arguemnts each way but in the end it might come down to your intuition/what you really want within youself. I hope you're happy whatever you choose, I appreciate your priorities in life.</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology/145230#145230 CICO Suave 2012-08-26T06:58:08Z 2012-08-26T06:58:08Z

<p>I would pose this question over at Livin' La Vida Low Carb. Jimmy know all about these sorts of Faustian bargains.</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology/145232#145232 Eric 2012-08-26T06:59:21Z 2012-08-26T06:59:21Z

<p>In our area Krispy Kreme donuts are not doing so well... I am not sure about Dunkin Donuts though...</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology/145241#145241 Tanya 2012-08-26T08:20:32Z 2012-08-26T08:20:32Z

<p>Well, in a case like this, the best thing to do is to trust your gut. Dunkin Donuts is more progressive in nutrition than other establishments. I do remember being impressed with their turkey sausage/egg white breakfast sandwiches in my pre-paleo days. Who knows if Dunkin Donuts is going to embrace gluten-free in the next few years; they just might. Also, the experience and investment returns of this opportunity may open doors in the future for something more your style.</p> <p>Dunkin Donuts also has excellent coffee, so even now, if I lived near one I would definitely visit it. I remember once being shocked to see Robb Wolf in a local breakfast place known for their quiches, pastries and sandwiches. I asked him what he ate here, and he said the coffee! </p> <p>I would be more concerned with who will be your partners. Partnerships are like marriages, except worse. Get your own legal counsel to review your agreements. Also, talk to other franchisees to find out the real scoop on corporate. I have seen more than a few business owners loose their life-savings after buying into problem franchisers like Quiznos or Cold-Stone Creamery.</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology/145256#145256 Luke 2012-08-26T10:39:09Z 2012-08-26T10:39:09Z

<p>I personally would not, as I would end up thinking negative thoughts about my customers, which would probably affect my customer service. It's not that I bear anyone any personal ill-will, I mean it really could just be a 'sometimes' thing for them, I just get frustrated with the lack of healthy fast-food progress being made.</p> <p>A KFC just opened in the train station I walk through every day (until then, the food choices there were pretty good), and since opening they've been PACKED... it's hard to watch.</p> <p>That being said, you don't seem to have my problem, and think this is a great opportunity, so stuff what anyone might say, it's your choice - you don't need to stress about what people on the internet might say about you. Who knows, you might make enough to open your own healthy joint.</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology/145262#145262 Maria 2012-08-26T11:15:18Z 2012-08-26T11:15:18Z

<p>This might be just me being pessimistic or cynical or something, but:</p> <p>It might be wrong. But it doesn't matter. Our entire culture/system is completely fucked up in so many ways that your individual participation in it isn't going to cause any noticeable impact either way. You probably also buy things made by 10-year-old slaves in China but don't feel guilty about it every time you look at your computer or your cell phone. I think it's very admirable to do good for individual people (e.g. your daughter) but there's absolutely no point trying to change the system because megacorporations >>>> you. That also means it's pointless to feel guilty about <em>not</em> changing the system. You and your family want a reasonable degree of social/financial security; realistically, you're going to have to participate in the system that surrounds you in order to get that. It's not your fault the system is corrupt.</p> <p>So basically, it might be morally wrong, but if you wanted live 100% ethically in modern America, you'd have to give up all non-renewable energy use, most consumer goods and, depending on your economic philosophy, potentially all participation in economic exchange (and if you did this, you'd necessarily have to live on a farm and grow all your own food, sew your own clothes, etc - try doing that without gas-powered farming tools!). And just by owning land here you'd still be indirectly benefiting from genocide unless you're of Native American ancestry. You live in an unjust society, so there's no point blaming yourself for trying to do the best by your family with the options available to you.</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology/145265#145265 HuntingBears 2012-08-26T11:40:36Z 2012-08-26T11:40:36Z

<p>If you don't do it someone else will</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology/145266#145266 ThinnerStrength 2012-08-26T11:45:54Z 2012-08-26T11:45:54Z

<p>Why not open a chipotle or other such franchise that better suits your values?</p> <p>And no business venture is a slam dunk. Especially for folks without a business background. Talk to people who are not paid by you buying this franchise, but are independent professionals. </p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology/145267#145267 Mike T 2012-08-26T11:46:55Z 2012-08-26T11:46:55Z

<p>There are many, many franchise opportunities out there. I am about to start one, and I chose one where I love the food (both delicious and paleo-friendly). I think it's much easier to be successful in a business where you believe in the product. It makes quality control much more effective if the owner is tasting the food regularly. It makes it much easier to connect with the customers, do marketing, do PR, etc. So I would say, even if the decision is based solely on financial success, you'll do much better picking a franchise with food you like.</p> <p>Not to mention that any job (including business ownership) is much more satisfying/fulfilling when you believe in what you're doing.</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology/145268#145268 mM 2012-08-26T11:49:26Z 2012-08-26T11:49:26Z

<p>It's funny how much paleos are like vegans, so many of these questions are like straight from a vegan board - ethical dilemma, can I invest into a shop which sells animal products etc.</p> <p>Paleo is just a template, when it starts to turn into your life, when you start to take it into your identity etc. then I would seriously stop, and think if basically a diet should have so much effect on you.</p> <p>I know that sisson and people like that are trying to turn the whole grok thing and stuff like that into a "paleo identity", but that's just clever marketing for people who need to "belong", the same way vegans turn into tribes, because they need to have something from outside themselves that polices their lives.</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology/145279#145279 Marie 2012-08-26T12:50:52Z 2012-08-26T12:50:52Z

<p>There are better long term investments than DD, especially if you plan to have time for your family. I'd suggest real estate (mid market rentals) as interest rates are set to increase in about a year and that puts upward pressure on rents. (I used be a retail real estate strategist for some big brands...and then made a lot of money investing at the top of the market. Yes, you read that correctly - I beat the market by targeting an under-served segment.)</p> <p>Plus VA loans can be very helpful when it comes to getting started in real estate :) </p> <p>Do some research into "Post War Economics" to see what economic trends we'll be facing in the next 20 years.</p> <p>And if you do decide to go the DD route, be very careful about the location you choose. Retail IS all about real estate and you'll need to look at the demographic trends in that area with a microscope. </p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology/145286#145286 Dragonfly 2012-08-26T13:23:42Z 2012-08-26T13:23:42Z

<p>Personally, I think it's a matter of integrity, rather than a moral dilemma.</p> <p>What example are you setting for your daughter if you insist on avoiding wheat/sugar/plant oils because of your health &amp; then make your living selling the stuff to others?</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology/145288#145288 borofergie 2012-08-26T13:32:58Z 2012-08-26T13:32:58Z

<p>All the good money is in exploitation (when presented with the choice of an "ethical fund" for my pension, I asked if might be able to invest in an "unethical" fund instead for this reason).</p> <p>Eating Donuts is not illegal, if the suckers want to feed their carb addiction, I say you take their cash.</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology/145289#145289 meta 2012-08-26T13:36:31Z 2012-08-26T13:36:31Z

<p>Awesome question. Apologies for the paternalistic advice that follows. </p> <p>If you speak to, or learn about people that have been very successful commercially you will find that one thing they have in common is that they love what they do. Unless you're sociopathic (and don't take offence, there's a great many people that are but manage to live decent lives) you may find that knowing you're selling what is, in effect, a metabolic poison may impede your chances of running a successful business. </p> <p>My advice would be to consider an alternative. </p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology/145495#145495 Michael 2012-08-27T05:53:59Z 2012-08-27T05:53:59Z

<p>Your behavior matters. If you open an establishment with crap food, that's more crap food that ignorant parents will give to their victimized children. If you open an estabishment with quality food, that's more quality food that ignorant parents will give to their lucky children.</p> <p>Your daughter will go to college if she wants. She might have to take out loans, but it'll be okay. Do you really want her to know that she was able to attend college without having to wash dishes in the cafeteria on the backs of some kids that were that entered adulthood closer to diabetes than they otherwise would have been if you hadn't served them donuts three times per week?</p> <p>I'm not going to say don't do it, especially if you don't have a decent choice. I'm just saying to make sure you've examined other alternatives very well. You might convince yourself to go ahead now, but are you sure you won't be regretting this decision later?</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology/145503#145503 Mark 2012-08-27T07:07:30Z 2012-08-27T07:07:30Z

<p>Perhaps you should take this opportunity to educate the dunkin donut eating community. While I agree with Michael, if its something you must do than perhaps think about using the profits to develop an educational program to teach children and their parents of the benefits of eating healthy. Maybe even a paleo pamphlet next to the cash register? Even better try an introduce a paleo-donut, one made of pure unadulterated meat cooked in saturated animal fat with a nice crunchy nut coating; hmmm id buy that. </p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology/145640#145640 surfin' on a rocket 2012-08-27T23:00:19Z 2012-08-27T23:00:19Z

<p>Easy Alternative: Apple stock :)</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology/145682#145682 Allie 2012-08-28T01:59:30Z 2012-08-28T01:59:30Z

<p>While financial security is something to be concerned about, especially with a child to support, I think there are a few things to consider:</p> <p>Is this the kind of example you'd like to set for your daughter? Aren't you sending the message that it is 'okay' to willingly support a food industry that literally poisons people? That she should stay paleo because it's 'good for her' but it's 'okay' to be apart of a business encouraging (and making a profit from, no less) people to eat in a manner that is not good for them? </p> <p>I see the other side of this too. You are trying to support your family, this venture is profitable. Our economy is getting worse and worse ...</p> <p>But, if you see the Paleo lifestyle as a means to live a healthier, happier, and more fulfilling life (what we eat both impacts us physically, as well as, mentally)-- and want that of your daughter--wouldn't you want that for your friends, family, and your community? Don't you want to encourage an environment of health? of holding firm to your beliefs? Don't you want to instill in your daughter a sense of care for not only herself but of her community? (Starting up a sugar-and-wheat-cancer-causing drive-thru doesn't seem like it'd send that message....)</p> <p>Personally, I wouldn't do it. But, it's your call, you know what's best for you and your family; I laud you for considering the ethical implications before jumping into it.</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology/145701#145701 Eugenia 2012-08-28T04:46:48Z 2012-08-28T04:46:48Z

<p>I would not personally partake in such business. It's exactly the reason why the world is so sick as it is today with all the selected wheat and super-gluten, sick animals and what not: financial opportunity. By actively opening such a business you make a lot of people sick without them knowing it (since 7/10 are gluten intolerant without knowing it, according to recent research). It's not about what they know though, because <em>you</em> know that what you do does not help the world. I'd steer clear from this, open a Paleo restaurant instead.</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology/145703#145703 Heather 2012-08-28T05:09:19Z 2012-08-28T05:09:19Z

<p>I think this is a great question. For me, it is easy to answer though. No. I would not invest. I believe there is an abundance of opportunities for investment. I am a huge believer in kharma. The money you put out affects the world which comes back to you. I have no judgement for you, if what you put out is that this is good for your daughter, than this is what you will get back....what is good for your daughter. Excellent sentiment. Good parenting.</p> <p>I suggest also considering that you put out health for yourself and those around you. You're not negligent if you don't, but it's something to think about. I'm sure I know happy people who eat donuts and that sounds lovely to me. </p> <p>My choice would be to act on my truth/beliefs <em>insofar as I have the option</em>. My options are waaaaay more limited than I would like to admit. I have no idea what they are for you, so think, feel, and do what your gut says after that.</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology/145867#145867 CaveMan_Mike 2012-08-28T22:08:09Z 2012-08-28T22:08:09Z

<p>I could not own a bar in good conscience. </p> <p>Just say'n.</p> <p>Mike</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology/146385#146385 Michael 2012-08-31T06:37:46Z 2012-08-31T06:37:46Z

<p>I know I've answered already, what about the cigarette analogy? Would you feel comfortable being a cigarette franchiser?</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology/163428#163428 james 2012-11-21T07:39:18Z 2012-11-21T07:39:18Z

<p>It's free will, not addiction, ignorance or weakness. I eat a few donuts occasionally and I don't consider myself ignorant, weak or addicted. Be real, no one who eats donuts is thinking they are consuming health food. So unless you're claiming you're donuts are superfoods that will melt of the pounds and leave you nourished and healthy then you're not doing anything wrong.</p> <p>I can guarantee you're decision on whether or not to buy a donut franchise or not will have no bearing on the health crisis this nation is facing.</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology/163437#163437 polynesian_metal 2012-11-21T08:35:12Z 2012-11-21T08:35:12Z

<p>I hope you don't feel that Paleo is somehow "morally superior" to other ways of eating. It may be working for you, but a donut really works for someone else and they shouldn't be denied. As a Paleo, you know how we face denial of our desired foodstuffs daily, just read the ingredients on most food and it has canola oil, soy or wheat even if it is touted as healthy. Everybody loves coffee. Do it for the love of coffee.</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology/169560#169560 Scratch 2012-12-28T18:52:00Z 2012-12-28T18:52:00Z

<p>I don't think I could do it. I won't even hand out candy to trick-or-treaters, even though candy is what they are after, because I feel guilty about passively condoning garbage food.</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology/169585#169585 blackappy 2012-12-28T21:19:18Z 2012-12-28T21:19:18Z

<p>Seriously, why is this a dilemma? I hate to sound crass, but grow a sack and don't continue to pollute our streets and bodies with junk stores and junk food.</p> <p>And, one more thing: Why do you need our approval (or disapproval) in order to come to a decision?</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology/169588#169588 ginasantari 2012-12-28T21:34:45Z 2012-12-28T21:34:45Z

<p>Interesting set of responses. I suspect the reason you posted the question on a public forum is that your conscience is telling you not to go into this. It would be one thing if your livelihood depended on it, but you said it doesn't. If you feel bad already, is it really going to get better? I wouldn't just be worried for the good of the community (people are responsible for themselves), but for your own good. That guilt is a big stressor to have on your shoulders. Think of your own happiness and sense of peace. There are plenty of ways to make money. </p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/145223/moral-dilemma-would-you-weigh-financial-opportunity-over-personal-paleo-ideology/169590#169590 Daniel 2012-12-28T21:41:16Z 2012-12-28T21:41:16Z

<p>Make money. Do it on whatever terms that will still let you look yourself in the mirror. A well funded bank roll will provide for you and your family, and a well run franchise could provide generations of economic stability to you and yours. </p> <p>Just because donuts aren't health food doesn't mean that shouldn't exist. People are free to make their own choices and you are not the gatekeeper of moral eating.</p> <p>My 2 cents. :)</p> <p>EDIT :</p> <p>Having said that, some of the best businesses fill a gap in the market and cater towards a niche - maybe you can think of a model that will let you monetize the healthy lifestyle you love while sharing it with others. </p>