most recent 30 from http://paleohacks.com 2013-06-19T08:05:44Z http://paleohacks.com/feeds/question/2561 http://www.creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/2.5/rdf http://paleohacks.com/questions/2561/been-eating-paleo-for-1-month-still-feel-like-garbage Ryan 2010-03-24T01:07:51Z 2010-04-13T19:39:38Z

<p>-Hi, Ive been eating Paleo for 1 month now and I have days (mostly half days) where I feel fantastic, almost euphoric and days like today where I feel no different than before I started Paleo. My "symptoms" are that I wake up groggy and very stiff with low mental energy. I can remain groggy with low mental energy until late afternoon and the stiffness subsides around noon but last in shoulders and back all day. I still get some foggy headed symptoms but not as bad as before. My body composition has improved but not radically. Im "medically healthy" meaning that conventional med tests say Im okay. Its not psychosomatic as these problems run in my dad's side of the family.</p> <p><strong>Quick Stats;</strong></p> <p>30 yr old male</p> <p>6'1</p> <p>195ish lb</p> <p>Some body fat, cant see abs but look "fit" in a t-shirt</p> <p><strong>Food:</strong> Been no cow dairy, no grain, no legumes, under 100 carbs for 30 days </p> <p>3/12 dropped goats milk and goats yogurt</p> <p>3/16 went under 50 carbs per day</p> <p>3/17 dropped whey protein</p> <p>**Meat is <em>not</em> grass fed. Just bought some grass fed beef last night</p> <p>-Kept track of food and noticed that I was eating right around 2,400 calories per day. Some days were as high as 3,300 but others as low as 1,900. I seem naturally to default to 2,400 though</p> <p><strong>Food added</strong></p> <p>3/14 added 1 gram of fish oil/10 lbs body weight per Robb Wolf directions (temporary until I feel better)</p> <p>3/17 added egg white protein powder (have been eating eggs all along)</p> <p><strong>Gym</strong></p> <p>Compound weights M, W, Fr (edit)</p> <p>Walks, 1-3 times a week</p> <p><strong>Sleep;</strong> Been sleeping more than ever. Used to sleep 9 hrs a night now sleeping 9.5 to 10.5. Go to bed around midnight and get up around 9-10:30 (I was laid off from my finance job about 6 months ago, I know I sound depressed and I may be a little but depression runs in my family, hence I always have bouts of depression).</p> <p><strong>Supplements</strong> (all are gluten free);</p> <p>1 gram/10 lb body weight of fish oil</p> <p>Multi-vitamin</p> <p>Vitamin D3, 5,000 IUs</p> <p>B Complex</p> <p>SAM-E, 600 mg </p> <p>Phosphatidylserine, 300-400 mg/day</p> <p>Digestive enzymes - when I eat alot of beef (not needed, I do it for experiment)</p> <p><strong>Supplements New</strong></p> <p>Added Magnesium last night, 500 mg before bed</p> <p>-I guess all I have left is to drop eggs and nuts as well. Robb Wolf mentioned that those can also be inflammatory to the gut. Its going to be really hard to get in 190 grams of protein per day (per Robb Wolf, body weight, not lean mass) without whey, eggs,goats yogurt, goats milk or nuts. Guess its meat all day all the time</p> <p>Thank you so much for your help and/or any insight you can provide</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/2561/been-eating-paleo-for-1-month-still-feel-like-garbage/2563#2563 Glenn 2010-03-24T01:22:25Z 2010-03-24T01:22:25Z

<p>Ryan (this is the same Ryan that posted before but had to re-register?) Hang in there buddy. Your body is adjusting to some pretty radical changes. I had the same thing. I do some pretty intense workouts, and my training turned to sh-t for several weeks, but it came back. Stay on track.<br> Don't obsess. Eat real food, relax, sleep, exercise. Repeat. Let us know how you are doing in a few weeks.</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/2561/been-eating-paleo-for-1-month-still-feel-like-garbage/2564#2564 HealthRediscovery 2010-03-24T01:44:38Z 2010-03-24T03:28:56Z

<p>Some thoughts, none specific to low-energy.</p> <p>Low carb: You don't have to go very-low carb or low carb at all. Some people consider potatoes to be paleo. Do whatever makes <em>you</em> feel the best. When you feel good, then experiment more. Adapting to low-carb can be difficult and take a lot of time.</p> <p>Vitamins/supplements: Multi-vitamins are generally considered bad here and elsewhere. Try and figure out what you actually need from it. B-complex and some of the other supplements may not be necessary either.</p> <p>Egg white protein powder: Protein powder is a protein-rich junk food (nutrients have been processed out of it). Egg <a href="http://paleohacks.com/questions/2206/egg-whites-throw-them-out" rel="nofollow">whites don't have many nutrients either, the yolk is where it is at</a>.</p> <p>Dairy: Try letting your milk ferment if it is raw milk. Try not consuming dairy.</p> <p>Gut health: Try eating more fermented foods.</p> <hr> <p>Update from question clarifications:</p> <p>Do you enjoy your lifting a lot? Think about doing a sport that you think is really fun. Peforming <em>just</em> the big compound movements can create a lot of tension (and possibly muscle imbalances). Make sure to get rid of tension with opposing exercises, cool-down, stretches, etc.</p> <p>It is great to see you have been improving. Keep it up! If pure paleo can't get you the rest of the way there, try something else.</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/2561/been-eating-paleo-for-1-month-still-feel-like-garbage/2565#2565 Bread-Eating Beelzebub 2010-03-24T02:16:44Z 2010-03-24T02:16:44Z

<p>If your body is healing I think the last thing you need to do is stress it with excessive protein. Here is my "healing paleo" shopping list:</p> <ul> <li>lacto-fermented (that means traditionally prepared) pickles and/or sauerkraut, kombucha, and/or a good probiotic from the refrigerated section of the health food store. Fish oil should also be from that section. </li> <li>coconut oil, cream, milk, and water. Young thai coconuts are perfect for this.</li> <li>a crock pot</li> <li><a href="http://huntgatherlove.com/content/nyc-paleo-skillshare-i" rel="nofollow">bone-in meats (lamb shanks are a great choice), bone marrow, and use the bones to make bone broth. Bone broth should also be made with apple cider vinegar, kombu, which is a seaweed that can help heal the gut and provides valuable iodine</a> </li> <li>FATTY fatty meats. I particularly like pastured pork belly, this REALLY helped my depression. I also think chicken thighs are great. </li> <li>Pumpkin puree, which can be mixed with broth to make a gut healing soup</li> <li><a href="http://recipes.chef2chef.net/recipe-archive/30/164123.shtml" rel="nofollow">Hijiki or arame for salads</a></li> </ul> <p>Once you are eating grass fed you can ditch the fish oil I think. That stuff can suppress the immune system and much of it is of dubious quality. L-lysine might also help you. </p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/2561/been-eating-paleo-for-1-month-still-feel-like-garbage/2567#2567 Dexter 2010-03-24T02:37:13Z 2010-03-24T02:37:13Z

<p>Ryan, I think your body doesn't know what to do with all the real food you are now eating. It will take some time for your system to keto adapt.</p> <p>Have some chicken livers fried in bacon fat along with fried onions. Have some beef heart slice thin and pan fried med rare in coconut oil along with a little thyme and basil.</p> <p>I mention organs because they are loaded with vitamins. Eat real eggs fried in coconut oil or butter or medium chain fatty acid oil. Ditch the whey protein.</p> <p>Eat real food. Eat your veggies slathered in butter so you will absorb the nutrients better. And microwave a small yam until soft, slice lengthwise and slather with butter. Eat with your meat and fat.</p> <p>Go for a walk for 30 min everyday day barefooted on real grass. Connecting with the earth does wonders for depression. Do not participate in depression. It serves no purpose. Barefoot on grass is like a massage. Take time to enjoy the experience everyday.</p> <p>You hang in tough. </p> <p>This community of paleos all have been in your shoes to one degree or another and we all made it and so will you. Patience and perserverance to power on. </p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/2561/been-eating-paleo-for-1-month-still-feel-like-garbage/2569#2569 Quik77 2010-03-24T03:08:23Z 2010-03-24T03:15:50Z

<p>I think part of the issue may be over-training for your current diet.</p> <p>I know some people who won't train deadlifts more than once a week and the same for squats, but again the other parts of the equations are your goals and your diet intake</p> <p>If you are trying to recover/build muscle, you'd need to up your calories at least 1000 a day, or add more carbs on weight training days (only in the morning and right arround when you train) if you don't want to feel so out of it, it that is the issue, but than it depends on your specific situation how much you are doing and whats affecting your progress.</p> <p>Which kind of training are you on? If you are doing something like the Colorado experiment/Tim Ferris/ Body by Science stuff (lift 90% or > of your 1RM 1-6 times per lift 1x-2x per week 5 seconds up 5 seconds down) you should be able to hack it with enough recovery.</p> <p>If you are doing Olympic lifts, fast cross fit stuff or large amounts of lower weight, than you are going to need carbs. (5x5, 5-3-1, 20 zillion reps of lower weight etc)</p> <p>also, foam rolling/stretching/yoga/ anything with the lifting?</p> <p>Maybe post a diet log /training log at sherdog.net forums in the training section, lots of lifters, and lots of low carb/paleo combat athletes there they may be able to point you on the right path more than I can. Only other things aside from the below links I could suggest are check your deficiencies (MG, K, D, ZMA + D helps me a ton with recovery, I see you are taking D and MG, taking them together can help their absorbency, while MG and calcium can block each other apparently).</p> <p>Oh and hows your water intake? lots of lifters I know of try for 1 gallon or more of water a day, it can also help a ton with recovery.</p> <p>but yeah like the above posters, more real food, more fat, you don't really need as much fish oil as robb wolf goes for but the athlete studies had it at about 3-4g of combined EPA/DHA per day I think, other things to check are for molecularly distilled fish oil (removes PCB/mercury etc which can be and issue in low quality ones, also fish oils like all PUFA can go bad so keep it in your fridge and bite into one to make sure its not rancid (which can be dangerous!) once in a while, yes this can be a vile experiance)</p> <p>I also think marks daily apple posted on over-training a while back yup found it, hope some of this helps and good luck!</p> <p><a href="http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-to-deal-with-overtraining/" rel="nofollow">How to deal with over-training</a></p> <p><a href="http://www.marksdailyapple.com/overtraining/" rel="nofollow">8 signs you are over-training</a></p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/2561/been-eating-paleo-for-1-month-still-feel-like-garbage/2572#2572 Louisa 2010-03-24T10:22:51Z 2010-03-24T13:02:56Z

<p>I am just going to add something about sleep, as it seems most of the nutrition and exercise elements have been covered by the above answers.</p> <p>You say: </p> <blockquote> <p>Been sleeping more than ever. Used to sleep 9 hrs a night now sleeping 9.5 to 10.5. Go to bed around midnight and get up around 9-10:30 (I was laid off from my finance job about 6 months ago, I know I sound depressed and I may be a little but depression runs in my family, hence I always have bouts of depression).</p> </blockquote> <p>I think in addition to trying the diet and exercise changes above, you should try to go to bed when it gets dark and wake up naturally with the dawn, then get up when you first wake up (do not lie in bed once you are awake). Just try it for a week, that's all, and see how it changes the groggy feeling you have. If you have nothing to do in the morning, try some tai chi or yoga perhaps or spend time making a good protein and fat rich breakfast (don't cut out the eggs!).</p> <p>Sleep in a <em>completely</em> dark room all night and this may help 're-set' your circadian rhythms. If you need to get up in the night, use a candle to see by (or very low lighting)....sounds kinda 'caveman like' doesn't it?</p> <p>To keep in balance with this, get plenty of sunshine during the day...this may help remedy the bouts of depression you sometimes get.</p> <p>You say you are waking up stiff, this maybe because you body is still de-toxing from your SAD diet, which can leave the muscles stiff upon waking. If you have a stiff neck you may also have candida (paleo is a natural anti-candida diet but <a href="http://editor.nourishedmagazine.com.au/articles/how-to-overcome-candida-part-2" rel="nofollow">see here</a> for more details of tried and tested anti-candida foods/remedies). In addition, your muscles may be stiff because they are releasing heavy metals into your system, again from your recent diet improvements - <a href="http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcl-156.shtml" rel="nofollow">here</a> are some protocols for heavy metal detox.</p> <p>Remember, it has only been a month; 'be gentle to yourself' is probably the best advice you can hear right now. Time is a great healer.</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/2561/been-eating-paleo-for-1-month-still-feel-like-garbage/2573#2573 Marc 2010-03-24T10:48:09Z 2010-03-24T10:48:09Z

<p>All good points. Someone once told me 'it's impossible to be depressed if you are moving forward" it's as simple as emptying the dishwasher, polishing your shoes, or clearing out your attic. Since you are unemployed for now, make sure your are doing something every day. if the house is clean enough...volunteer somewhere. But keep moving forward.</p> <p>And like Art Devany has stressed so often (as did the last commenter)...be patient, be gentle and let it come...it will in time.</p> <p>Good luck stay strong and keep us posted.</p> <p>Marc</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/2561/been-eating-paleo-for-1-month-still-feel-like-garbage/2574#2574 Fearsclave 2010-03-24T11:37:04Z 2010-03-24T11:37:04Z

<p>I'm inclined to think overtraining and adaptation to a normal diet might be issues here, as well as treating the Paleo diet like a typical American fad diet with calorie counting, wacky supplements, weigh-ins, angst, and unbalanced food choices, etc.</p> <p>It's a diet in the sense of stuff you eat. Think of it as simply eating the foods you evolved to eat, when you feel hungry, drinking when you're thirsty, getting some fun exercise, and letting your body self-regulate without micromanagement, not a diet in terms of a calorie deprivation-driven controlled starvation regime. It's about eating like a human being, not anorexia lite or some unnatural purpose-specific bodybuilding nutritional regime. </p> <p>As you can probably tell, my personal experience eating Paleo has been that just eating real food (i.e. Paleo foods) to sate your hunger, without messing around counting calories or supplementing, works just fine. By way of an N=1 experiment, how about taking a week or two break from the weight training, stop taking the supplements, replace your fish oil with actual fish, hide the scales and calorie charts, eat enough Paleo food to sate you when you're hungry, drink when you're thirsty, sleep when you feel like it, and check back in and let us know how you're doing?</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/2561/been-eating-paleo-for-1-month-still-feel-like-garbage/2591#2591 Kat 2010-03-24T15:08:48Z 2010-03-24T15:08:48Z

<p>Fats, definitely fats. Based on my experience I get those symptoms only when I don't eat enough fats the day before. If you're cutting out dairy and eggs you'll need to start looking at cooking with and eating more animal fats. Lard, tallow, and eating the fatty cuts of meat are best. I would suggest butter or ghee even if you are cutting most dairy products. Also don't only have the premium meat cuts, go for the organ meats too which have a lot more nutrients. Try fish, shellfish and if you're eating chicken make sure to eat the skin. Stay patient too, let yourself rest and adapt to this new diet.</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/2561/been-eating-paleo-for-1-month-still-feel-like-garbage/2597#2597 Patrik 2010-03-24T17:00:34Z 2010-03-24T17:00:34Z

<p>@Ryan</p> <p>You might have a thyroid issue. Search here on PaleoHack for thyroid, also check out Diana Hsieh's blog and her experience with thyroid and iodine. </p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/2561/been-eating-paleo-for-1-month-still-feel-like-garbage/2600#2600 Aaron Griffin 2010-03-24T17:47:18Z 2010-03-24T17:47:18Z

<p>I don't agree that your body is healing. Extended ketosis is known to cause "mental fog" for some people, especially if doing a lot of endurance related activities. Definitely up your fruit consumption. Also, switching to goat's milk isn't good enough. I recommend dropping <em>all</em> dairy completely.</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/2561/been-eating-paleo-for-1-month-still-feel-like-garbage/2606#2606 rht 2010-03-24T20:46:12Z 2010-03-24T20:46:12Z

<p>Congrats on ditching the milk. You could try ghee to see if casein is an issue.</p> <p>Are you certain you tolerate eggs? Be sure to check the whites and yolks separately.</p> <p>overtraining is a definite possibility. love the dark room for sleeping idea.</p> <p>You're taking D, but have you had your levels checked? </p> <p>Epsom salt baths and/or magnesium supplements (bone broth idea is best for this)</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/2561/been-eating-paleo-for-1-month-still-feel-like-garbage/2615#2615 Meng Weng Wong 2010-03-25T03:32:19Z 2010-03-25T03:32:19Z

<p>I might be completely wrong about this, but I'm picking up a very faint signal of mild manic-depressiveness; this is normal in young people who didn't grow up in a family/culture that is psychologically aware, and exacerbated by the SAD of sugar highs and lows.</p> <p>If you were a sous vide cooker run by a PID controller, I would suggest that the mood swings look a lot like too high a derivative (D) setting -- a lot of overshoot in either direction. Diet can help damp those oscillations, but so can a bit of cognitive-behavioural self-therapy.</p> <p>Have you tried meditation?</p> <p>To those suffering from depression I can recommend</p> <p><a href="http://rads.stackoverflow.com/amzn/click/0684854678" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Noonday-Demon-Atlas-Depression/dp/0684854678/</a></p> <p><a href="http://rads.stackoverflow.com/amzn/click/0385483708" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Breaking-Patterns-Depression-Michael-Yapko/dp/0385483708/</a></p> <p><a href="http://rads.stackoverflow.com/amzn/click/0671019112" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Learned-Optimism-Change-Your-Mind/dp/0671019112/</a></p> <p>Good luck, and remember: happiness = reality – expectations</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/2561/been-eating-paleo-for-1-month-still-feel-like-garbage/2707#2707 pjnoir 2010-03-27T02:53:34Z 2010-03-27T02:53:34Z

<p>How are you doing now? I would add FAT FAT FAT. Coconut Butter is good. I still use some dairy- cheeses, Greek Yogurt for the Fat and Protein. Get sleep and allow your body detox. Let us know how you are doing. I'm diabetioc and a Primal/Paleo diet with Low carg High fat has been the best thing Ive done for myself.</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/2561/been-eating-paleo-for-1-month-still-feel-like-garbage/3344#3344 Matt 2010-04-13T18:22:02Z 2010-04-13T18:22:02Z

<p>I realise that when you become interested in a diet and lifestyle like paleo it is tempting to view everything healthwise as related to it. While it is true they is very important, particularly for mordern western health problems, it is far from the only influence on your health. I am not saying don't change things in an attempt to feel better but be cautious and remember that diet is not the only cause of health problems and so it cannot cure everything.</p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/2561/been-eating-paleo-for-1-month-still-feel-like-garbage/3347#3347 Kim 2010-04-13T19:36:58Z 2010-04-13T19:36:58Z

<p>What you describe sounds almost precisely like me before my multiple food allergies were diagnosed (lucky for me, mine are wheat, corn and soy, so paleo is a perfect fit!). You've got most of the major allergens gone already. If I were you, I would ditch the eggs for 2 weeks to a month, then re-introduce. If that doesn't help anything, maybe try the nuts. I am also allergic to nuts, but it is an anaphylactic-type reaction, so for me, it wouldn't produce those symptoms. I don't know if it might in others though! </p>

http://paleohacks.com/questions/2561/been-eating-paleo-for-1-month-still-feel-like-garbage/3348#3348 NoGluten 2010-04-13T19:39:38Z 2010-04-13T19:39:38Z

<p>update, please?</p> <p>still sleeping a ton?</p>