Paleo isn't working yet; it's been 33 days - Petite woman, 27, please help! - PaleoHacks.com

Paleo isn't working yet; it's been 33 days - Petite woman, 27, please help!

2011-10-12T01:12:09Z

Ok, I hate being another person asking how on earth to succeed on Paleo - read: drop weight, look fantastic. However, I'm 33 days in, and somehow larger than before (my diet was moderate carb, lots of veggies, not much protein). I'm a very petite woman, aged 27, and don't own a scale. I measure my weight by how my clothes fit - they don't. The scale at the gym has given me some insight, I've put on about 16 lbs, and needed about 5. My BMR is just under 1200. I have migraines, and was on Topamax - worked beautifully- but I felt it was time to get off daily medicine. I stopped taking it according to the doctor's plan. I gained the weight in the past year, just after stopping the medicine.
My aunt went paleo about 1.5-2 years ago, and is also petite and has done beautifully on paleo. I also read a ketogenic diet would mimic the Topamax (since a ketogenic diet helps control epileptic seizures, and I was on low dose for Topamax- an anti-seizure medicine). Now, for 33 days, I've paleo-ed. I've kept carbs under 20g (minus a couple of days where I just didn't quite realize what foods had how many carbs - I haven't been over 35g/day), PROTEIN at 25-30% and FAT around 60%. The first two weeks I was eating WAY too much - around 1400-1800 cals a day! I read more about BMR and have kept my calories between 700-1250 for two weeks now. I also added coconut oil 3 weeks ago, and have been taking 1-3 tablespoons daily. I do NOT count these calories. My %s of carb/protein/fat have stayed the same. I have no more swelling in my joints, which is great. But,my "skinny fat" (just a little extra all over, a little flabby for lack of a better term) has turned very solid, and my clothes are much tighter, some won't go on, even in the past 2 weeks, I've gained weight (no scale though). I am uncomfortable in my own body. I have absolutely no energy, am upset and getting depressed and very frustrated. I've had 4 migraines, more than usual. Every time I try to exercise, I get a migraine, thus I haven't wanted to exercise much at all. Some light walking and that's it. I have caffeine only 2-4 times weekly - an espresso with 3T of cream (yum!). I drink only water or herbal tea otherwise. What can I change? What have I done wrong. This diet seems to work for absolutely everyone. I must be getting too much of something, or a bad combo of nutrients, or something. I'd really appreciate some advice from any of you who can help me drop the weight, and keep the migraines at bay. Please.

Answer by Farmer's Daughter for Paleo isn't working yet; it's been 33 days - Petite woman, 27, please help!

2011-10-12T01:56:03Z

My friend was on Topamax for epilepsy and was very slim. When she went off of it, she gained a ton of weight. Perhaps this is one of the ways that the body responds to going off of this particular medication? I know this is probably not what you wanted to hear, but it is a situation I've seen before.

That being said, I would eat way more fat and cut down on your protein a bit, like Happy Now was saying.

Also, are you sleeping? How are your stress levels? Robb Wolf and Mark Sisson have both noted that you can be doing EVERYTHING right nutritionally, but if you don't have your sleep and stress dialed in, your body is going to hold onto weight like crazy.

Answer by Breanna for Paleo isn't working yet; it's been 33 days - Petite woman, 27, please help!

2011-10-12T02:05:33Z

Too much protein can increase your insulin as well. I agree with the previous person's assessment. Aim for 25-30% calories from protein, 5-10% carbs if you're doing low carb, and the rest from fat. You only need .7-1.0 grams of protein per pound of lean body mass, so I'd adjust accordingly. I hope that helps!

Answer by Nemesis for Paleo isn't working yet; it's been 33 days - Petite woman, 27, please help!

2011-10-12T02:06:46Z

Like the others have said--

Eat some more carbs. Experiment with your macros a bit. Go for 30% protein and 60% fat, and let the rest be carbs. You always want to eat more fat than protein, otherwise you'll feel like crap (which you do).

Answer by Sizzle for Paleo isn't working yet; it's been 33 days - Petite woman, 27, please help!

2011-10-12T02:07:06Z

OOPS! fat is about 60-70%, protein about 25-30%! moderate stress - I'm an attorney, always tired, married a month ago, and sleeping well. I've been off the meds for about a year and a half now, if that helps. very low dose, but after a few months of coming off it, the hunger crept back in and food actually tasted good.

Answer by Sizzle for Paleo isn't working yet; it's been 33 days - Petite woman, 27, please help!

2011-10-12T03:06:08Z

i was taking in 1400-1800 a day. Now I have coconut oil added, and without those calories I'm at 700-1250 cals a day. Average over 2 weeks has been 950

Answer by Sizzle for Paleo isn't working yet; it's been 33 days - Petite woman, 27, please help!

2011-10-12T11:47:38Z

Oh, and if this helps, I have 30% body fat. I used to be 19%

Answer by Sizzle for Paleo isn't working yet; it's been 33 days - Petite woman, 27, please help!

2011-10-12T15:13:01Z

Thanks, everyone. It's really kind of you to take the time to help me. On the "eat more" front, should I be going over by BMR? I only started to track the calories on fitday.com because i wanted to see how much and what exactly I was eating, and how the %s worked out. I'm surprised that I have actually gotten larger, and have been doing most everything correctly. I am starting to not be hungry, although eating less. As for dairy, mo more than 2 oz hard cheese daily, and a few times a week, heavy cream. This has been very hard. Sweets, bread etc were relatively easy to give up, but dairy is my absolute favorite. Doing well on that though. but why no positive results?

Answer by Armi Legge for Paleo isn't working yet; it's been 33 days - Petite woman, 27, please help!

2011-10-12T17:00:15Z

Hey Sizzle,

Congrats on making the change, but I have some ideas. As the others have pointed out, make sure stress, sleep, and other variables are in check. If they are...

Calories do count, and it's not a bad thing to track them if you are having trouble gaining weight. Here's what I would do:

Stop eating dairy for at least 4 weeks. I know it's tough, but it can be very inflammatory if your gut was just being punished with grains, as was the case with you.
Increase protein. You need a minimum of .7 grams per pound of body weight, but more protein helps with satiety, glucose control, and ensures no muscle wasting. Get at least 1 gram per pound of body weight, or more.
Increasing carbs might be a good idea, but you'll have to play around with what suits you.
You could also try eating around 800 calories a few days a week, and eating slightly over your caloric needs the other several days. This helps keep your metabolism from adjusting and is beneficial psychologically.

I know you said you get migraines, but weight training is the best way to treat being skinny fat. Even 20 min twice a week would be great.

In all honesty, the best version of the paleo diet I've found yet is here:

http://www.bulletproofexec.com/the-complete-illustrated-one-page-bulletproof-diet/

It takes into account a lot of things most people don't such as denatured casein proteins, mycotoxins, and other details that can cause inflammation.

Hope this helps!

Answer by rsc_usmc for Paleo isn't working yet; it's been 33 days - Petite woman, 27, please help!

2011-10-12T23:27:28Z

My (newbie) Two Cents:

I think we're missing a few key pieces of information here that would really assist in the community helping you out, Sizzle.

So far there have been suggestions to change macro-nutrient ratios, drop dairy/sweeteners/salt, supplement more, be less stressed, sleep more, and more...but we're making suggestions without necessary information.

We need a current weight. You say you don't own a scale, but that you've used the gym scale and it says you've put on 16 pounds. Give us the "before" weight AND when you last actually weighed that much according to a scale and give us your current weight. Its impossible to tell if your BMR calcs are correct without accurate data to plug in.
Don't be so quick to trust an online BMR calculator...or any BMR calculation. You have to realize that, for the most part, the calculations developed for BMR are meant to hit the "average" person and certain population segments. It doesn't take into account differences in muscle mass, ethnicity, extremes in height/weight, and so on. They CAN be a useful tool in the toolbox...but they are not the best tool for every job.
We have no idea WHAT you're eating, WHEN you're eating it, and HOW much of it you consume. Consuming 700-1250 calories per day is a nice number...but I'd be much more interested (and its more informative) to know the aforementioned things. There's a big difference between someone who eats 1200 calories spread out over the day...and someone who gets 100-200 at breakfast and lunch then pounds back 900+ at dinner.
Coconut oil is not a health supplement...its a food/calorie source. IF you're counting calories, count it. Period.
You say you were previously 19% body fat and now you're 30%. When were you at 19%? When were you at 30% Weights at both measures? How did you get the body fat %? These are valuable data points.
How long (years/months) have you been off the seizure meds?
How is your stress level? You're an attorney, a newly wed, and frustrated by your weight gain...I'm guessing you're stress level is pretty jacked up most of the week.
When you have your espresso with heavy cream 2-4 times per week, do you feel a "buzz" or higher energy level afterwards? Given the ability for heavy cream (lipids) to aid in the transport/absorption of caffeine into the body, if you're not getting a buzz off of it you might be looking at some adrenal fatigue...especially if you're stressed out a lot.
Supplementation: What kind of/how much of/When do you take magnesium? When/how much/why do you take Melatonin at night?
Exercise: What exercises were you doing before going paleo, and how much of it (frequency)? What are you doing now? When? Intensity and volume of said exercise? Why only 5 pound weights?
Sleep: How much do you get? When do you go to bed? Wake up? Dark room?
Last blood profile? Family history of thyroid issues?
Your 33 days: You say that you've been paleo for 33 days. 2 weeks of which you said were at 1400-1800 calories and 2-3 weeks at 700-1250. You say that you've gotten larger the entire time. Its only a guess, but I'd be willing to wager that you'd have started dropping a bit of fat with the 1400-1800 and had better energy with it if you had stuck to it instead of dropping down. We're all well aware of the potential for the "Paleo Flu" for the first 1-3 weeks for some people, you have to ride it out at least for a full month without changing things or tinkering to know how your body is actually responding.
Have you tested to see if you're running in ketosis?

My suggestions: (take with a grain of salt...making assumptions based off incomplete data)

Ditch the caffeine, dairy, sweeteners, and herbal tea for at least two weeks.

Dial your calories back up into the 1600-1800 range.

Tweak your macro-nutrients back towards a 20-30% Protein, 40-50% Fat, and 30-40% Carb ratio. You're running at 60% fat and still putting on weight and feeling low energy...that looks like a possible issue of not enough calories or your body having issues converting protein/fat into ketone bodies. Up the carbs and calories a bit to get a nice steady base line of energy levels and weight gain/loss/maintenance and THEN start dialing down the carbs and dialing up the fat. Without any evidence of severe metabolic derangement, the extra carbs (from good sources, mind you) won't harm you at all.

Write back with answers to the questions I've posed here and I'm sure the community can give you a more defined and accurate response.

P.S. I fully agree with Violet's suggestion of the link to Berardi's calculator as a better tool than most basic BMR calc's you'll find out there.

Answer by grace for Paleo isn't working yet; it's been 33 days - Petite woman, 27, please help!

2011-10-13T01:07:48Z

Sizzle,

I'd concur with a lot of the great suggestions above! Going VLC (very low carb < 20g/day) requires more minerals (read Drs. Mary and Mike Eades, Proteinpower) so perhaps the migraines are secondary to a loss of magnesium? Do you think you may be experiencing reactive hypoglycemia (headaches, migraines, fatigue)? Additionally you listed a bunch of life stressors like being 'an attorney, always tired, married a month ago'. Having 4 migraines is debilitating. Did you move too? WOW. You probably handle stress well but these are significant life stressors and being fatigued is a chronic downer.

Consider being evaluated by an integrative practitioner for adrenal insufficiency -- a lot of the things you are saying are consistent to me. I have it on/off and for me VLC exacerbates it when other stressors are going on (excessive exercise, mental stress, jet lag, etc). When I don't have adrenal issues, I can fast or do VLC with no problems and get easily fat reduction.

However, when I have adrenal fatigue, weight gain occurs with stressors. What I do is up the salt, fish oil, egg yolks, sleep more, exercise less, more yoga, eat small frequent meals that contain carbs (80-120 g/day), fat and protein (no skipping or fasting!!) and some supps which really help me. My paleo friend Christian Wernstedt does these type of consults via long distance: http://blog.vitalobjectives.com/search/label/Cortisol

Topiramate like other pharmaceuticals can mess with cortisol (glucocorticoid) and therefore adrenal-hypothalamus-gut functioning. Scientists haven't even elucidated out the mechanism of action of Topiramate (Topamax) for seizures or migraine prevention. Drugs are potent, synthetic chemicals which can alter many hormone cascades and negative/positive feedback loops. That's my sad clinical and personal experience as well. http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v29/n2/full/1300331a.html

Personally I think once adrenal function is assessed and improved to more optimal functioning, you will have effortless weight loss, feel super energetic and migraine control. Fertility hinges on a lot of factors but adequate progesterone for fertility depends on adequate adrenal function for a lot gals. It sounds like the current strategy is somehow adding to some internal hormone stress, hence the weight gain. (I've been through this myself and took a long time to realize).

Consider this book in conjunction with a knowledgable practitioner --Natasha Turner 'Hormone Diet' (just ignore the 'whole grain' stuff!) she is really s*xxxy and fun and addresses fat maps, adrenal/thyroid and female hormones. She cured her own PCOS, improved her thyroid and adrenal insufficiency.

Good luck!

Answer by Moonablaze for Paleo isn't working yet; it's been 33 days - Petite woman, 27, please help!

2011-10-13T01:13:14Z

Topamax has been used off-label as a weight loss drug for over a decade (it was in clinical trials to be approved for that use but I don't know what became of that). I was put on it as an adolescent and dropped 30 lbs in 2 months without trying, because I wasn't eating. I would feel overstuffed, like after thanksgiving dinner, after eating a 6 ounce cup of yogurt.

It seems likely that you regained an appetite once you went off the Topamax. I agree with those who suggest eating more real food (meat, organs, veggies and fruit), and cutting out processed foods like splenda and sugar-free jello. for me, even a little of that stuff throws me way out of wack.

Answer by Linda for Paleo isn't working yet; it's been 33 days - Petite woman, 27, please help!

2011-10-13T11:27:39Z

I was afraid to put my weight, because I don't want to be attacked. I'm small - I don't have anorexia or any other eating disorder. 5'0" currently 98 lbs I think. Lowest weight 2.5 years ago was 81 lbs. It was too small and I looked feeble. Best weight, happiest was around 86-88 lbs.

At 5' and 98lb, that gives you a BMI of 19.

At 5' and 88lb, that gives you a BMI of 17.

Both are under weight, a weight of around 110lb would be right for your height, but you need to put it on slowly and lift some weights to build muscle.

Also you might look in the mirror and see fat, but others might see a healthy girl, get a second opinion from someone your trust.

Answer by Sizzle for Paleo isn't working yet; it's been 33 days - Petite woman, 27, please help!

2011-10-21T02:26:01Z

Still no results. less hungry every day, and had one day full of energy (yesterday - same eating patterns). Bloodwork was very good. AST and ALT levels a little high, but expected with under 45 days of Paleo. Heard about leptin reset - BAB (will be 4 eggs, 2 bacon slices, 3T cream in coffee), and sticking with the same foods for dinner and lunch - leafy greens mostly for veg and steak, fish, bison, venison, eggs as meat/protein. ALSO, cortisol was "moderately elevated" - which means after fasting all night (7pm-9:30 am) i was at 25.5 cortisol. Evidently the high range of "normal" is 20. I can't do much about stress (new old house, new life, new marriage, stressful job, weight gain, etc) Many of you said eat more, when i did eat more, i was gaining weight. when i ate less (now) i am gaining. Body Fat measured again, went up 30.6%. i have little to no energy to work out. I sort of miss running, but the thought of it now makes me tired. Will get some 15 lb weights to start out. Any ideas? I'm still frustrated.

Answer by Bread-Eating Beelzebub for Paleo isn't working yet; it's been 33 days - Petite woman, 27, please help!

2011-10-21T03:34:15Z

I have absolutely no energy, am upset and getting depressed and very frustrated

I realize you are having physical problems, but you are describing some psychological issues here. Body and mind are intimately connected and problems with one often cause problems with the other. Some of your problems sound quite serious. Are you seeing a psychologist or a psychiatrist?

You say you are small boned, but you should talk to a doctor who can determine whether or not you are really at a healthy weight. There is nothing wrong with buying new clothes. You say you are at 30% body fat but that seems literally impossible. Was that measured by a physician? Because those scales they have at the gym are NOT accurate.

Answer by Wcc Kamal Stabby fan for Paleo isn't working yet; it's been 33 days - Petite woman, 27, please help!

2011-10-21T04:03:53Z

I recommend adding some fermented foods to your diet, such as homemade sauerkraut, kim-chi, kefir, or kombucha. Fermented foods are a great way to get your dietary probiotics. Improving your gut flora will help your body digest food better and absorb more nutrients from the foods that you are eating.

Answer by cliff for Paleo isn't working yet; it's been 33 days - Petite woman, 27, please help!

2011-10-21T04:39:45Z

You need to eat more carbs. Low liver glycogen means your body can't deal with stress. For you too much stress shows up as a migraine. You exercise and get a migraine because you are taxing your already low liver glycogen.

Fruit is the best because fructose catalyzes glucose so it can oxidize more efficiently.

When you don't eat enough carbs your t3 will be low unless you take/eat thyroid(like the eskimos) which will push you hypothyroid and cause you to gain weight.

Answer by Eric for Paleo isn't working yet; it's been 33 days - Petite woman, 27, please help!

2011-10-21T05:07:13Z

You may need to add some weight lifting to your routine. Just a very little bit of it to gain weight. Start slow.

Answer by grace for Paleo isn't working yet; it's been 33 days - Petite woman, 27, please help!

2011-10-23T13:01:11Z

Sizzle!!

Thanxxxs for the updates! New kitten and husband are fantastic! But not nearly enough to negate the other life stressors!!

For the wedding, did you diet? This can cause some insulin resistance if calorically deprived excessively. Plus stressful!

Buying a new house is stressful! On top of a wedding (planning, dealing w/mom/MILs/etc, executing, enjoying)!!

Have you seen this case study? http://www.metametrix.com/learning-center/case-studies/2002/adrenal-stress-biotin-pattern

The diff is your cortisol is peaked AM not noon but otherwise I suspect you are like this case

--high cortisol in the daytime

--low cortisol when you are feeling 'drained' perhaps mid afternoon? pm?

--high cortisol midnight for '2nd wind' or difficulty with full, maximal sleep

--leaky gut (do you have bloating after meals? you have leaky gut, if yes)

--vitamin deficiencies/hormonal dysregulation

Consider ways to address the above which are all REVERSIBLE (!!):

(a) leptin/adrenal reset -- follow Quilt as you mentioned. Keep carbs 25 grams in the morning (2/3 cup any combo organic berries, rice, potato, etc) and some at lunch and dinner to help keep cortisol in ck. Don't skip meals. You are doing great on protein and fats! Keep up the strong work.

(b) lower cortisol by yoga, meditation mixing up mornings and bedtime timing

-- adaptogens (see Quilt -- any and all are fantastic -- I also like Gaia's Adrenal which Whole Foods carries or iherb.com -- this totally chills me out yet I get energy)

-- Relora (iherb.com)

-- magnesium (which helps migraine prevention as well) and mineral rich food (bone broths, extra sea salt, grassfed organs/meats)

-- omega-3 (high quality, best brand you can afford) 3 to 6 grams daily -- this burns fat, lowers cortisol in studies and improves brain function and brain inflammation

-- vitamin D in the morning -- have you had blood testing?

(d) consider for leaky gut

-- activated B vitamins and 5-HTP (to replace what your gut microbes are aren't making) -- these add'l help with cravings and energy until your gut and adrenals work properly again. Cortisol promotes permeability of the gut directly.

-- digestive enzymes 1-3 caps per meal (Robb Wolf likes NOW Super enzymes and I also like both NOW platinum and pancreatic enzymes; iherb.com) these breakdown food which may be fermenting in leaky gut and malabsorbing instead of being fully 100% digested

--bone broths w/marrow, fermented foods (raw sauerkraut + juice, etc)

Hang in there... I've done all the above myself and all made a huge difference for me for functioning and body recomp. It is not overnight we deplete our essential reserves (in fact we ran ourselves ragged). It's ok to slow down. OR A LOT!!!! Find your joy -- it's worth your time...

Please let us know your progress and all your excellent questions!

Answer by grace for Paleo isn't working yet; it's been 33 days - Petite woman, 27, please help!

2011-10-27T09:08:53Z

Sizzle,

For adrenal stuff you have to go to resources where they've conquered it successfully... Mark Sisson is/was an elite athlete and qualified for Olympic marathon running. Like Quilty, he's a pro at all things hormonal, supplements and optimal health. Ck out his post below!

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/cortisol/

Other great resources that are paleo/primal:

You are doing AWESOMELY!!!

Answer by anon for Paleo isn't working yet; it's been 33 days - Petite woman, 27, please help!

2011-10-27T19:31:19Z

My best advice is to switch to blood type and get more specific about your food. If you happen to be blood type A, for example, that means you remove the meat and eat more fish and eggs. Refine & finesse-- that is what you need to do. Also take a look at your genotype. Peter D'Adamo has written several totally fascinating books about blood type/genetics. I, for example, am a Hunter genotype. So paleo is my diet 100% more or less and yes works quite beautifully. I've found though I don't have to constantly go radical against carbs to be skinny--- just not my genetics. I have to eat the right carbs and limit the wrong ones.

Once you get that info look at intermittent fasting. Eat Stop Eat, Fast 5, Warrior Diet etc.

Also compare notes off of Mark's Daily Apple for even more tips.

If you are an O paleo should work for you. You just tweak it a little, maybe exercise more or eat a little less or more carbs. But it sounds like it isn't working so you need to dig a little deeper.

Yes, I am a genius. :--) No, I just have many years of experience with this.

Answer by Sizzle for Paleo isn't working yet; it's been 33 days - Petite woman, 27, please help!

2011-10-28T14:29:57Z

47 days into Paleo, and bigger than when i started. frustrated. migraine yesterday and today, no different eating/sleep patterns. Can't track why. I have gained more FAT - more cellulite, more quishy in my clothes, the few pairs of jeans that would zip now won't. I need help. Please.