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WHY is gluten considered so bad for you?

by (20)
Updated about 21 hours ago
Created May 25, 2013 at 6:05 AM

Okay, so I have a really big question about gluten that I can't seem to find an answer for. I'm not following the Paleo diet but I happened to stumble upon this site a few days ago and I've been refreshing the "questions" page every chance I get-- you guys discuss some very interesting things! So one thing I started hearing about lately is how bad gluten is, and I know some people can't have it, but other than that there's not much I know about it. I consume quite a bit of whole wheat bread (specifically pita, since I'm Arab and you can't eat a lot of Arabic foods without pita, especially hummus). I've become pretty anal about what I eat since I gained the freedom to buy what'd I like (something I didn't have at my parents house), and I'm really interested to learn about why gluten is bad for you. I looked up threads on this site, and I did some search on google, but the articles just talk about what gluten is in and of itself and how some people are sensitive to it.

I'd really love some educated answers about why it's bad, studies, links, books-- anything! Thanks so much :)

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10176 · November 18, 2013 at 5:40 PM

+1 for the constructive N=1 experience.

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1097 · November 18, 2013 at 5:18 AM

Hey there. PHD is the Perfect health diet! Mostly we eat about 150-200 g carbs and include rice 3-4x a week. There are some other differences, but check out http://perfecthealthdiet.com/

Some people react poorly to traditional Paleo because so much different than their SAD habits, and their bodies go through a healing process that is often uncomfortable and they're not willing to push through. So it's not permanent, but damn the change can make you feel like crap at first!

And thank you.

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1005 · November 18, 2013 at 1:29 AM

The key word there is 'like' an opiate. The opioid peptides form during digestion.

"Gluten exorphin A5 stimulated the postprandial insulin release after the oral administration in rats and the effect was reversed by co-administration of naloxone."

(Naloxone is what you give someone if they've overdosed on heroin.)

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0 · November 17, 2013 at 10:26 AM

@O Siodhachain

This sounds like it would be very useful to friends -- could you elaborate on what doing "much more PHD" looks like, or what typical foods in a day/week are?

"I think lots of people who do that who react poorly to traditional paleo would find it less shocking to the system." sounds potentially useful and very interesting. Why do some people react poorly to traditional Paleo?

The second point is a well written and well-made point.

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459 · November 17, 2013 at 5:28 AM

I like Dr. Attia's approach, he is quite scientific and methodical about matters of diet and nutrition. He gets it.

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690 · November 16, 2013 at 9:12 PM

That makes sense... people are different. What some can eat w/o a problem, can be a problem for others. Nutrition is much more complicated than people think. Interesting, switching away from wheat & wheat products...going towards paleo stopped my heartburn & acid reflux. Here's a long post about how the issue of sugar & sugar in food is much more nuanced than simple slogans, like "Sugar is toxic". http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/is-sugar-toxic I'm sure wheat is the same

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690 · November 16, 2013 at 9:05 PM

I didn't go paleo "cold turkey". Gradually over about 6 months I eliminated more & more refined carbs from my diet. I first dropped wheat & wheat products, grains, sugar & dairy... 4 Hour Body diet mods. Then Primal Blueprint & finally arrived at paleo. Check this guy out... engineer, MD, nutritional researcher

http://eatingacademy.com/dr-peter-attia

http://eatingacademy.com/start-here

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690 · November 16, 2013 at 9:00 PM

You might consider reading this blog post and all of its referenced links. Gluten is one of the issues with wheat but not the only one.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-problems-with-modern-wheat/#axzz2kqLhdpmh http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20664999?dopt=Abstract

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690 · November 16, 2013 at 8:12 PM

Ahhh.. gluten is a protein. More gluten means more protein. Since protein is prized in the marketplace, higher gluten (protein) wheat commands a higher price. Follow the money... it simplifies the analysis.

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10176 · November 16, 2013 at 8:06 PM

The bigger question is how much metabolic syndrome there was 20,000 years ago, not in 1963.

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10176 · November 16, 2013 at 8:02 PM

When Paleos start acting like paleos - walking everywhere and eating anything they can digest to keep from starving - let me know.

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10176 · November 16, 2013 at 7:59 PM

gastronomer, gluten is just another difficult-to-digest protein, like casein. Most people can handle it just fine, or they wouldn't be getting fat overeating gluten-containing foods.

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10176 · November 16, 2013 at 7:54 PM

paleot if gluten is an opiate it IS straightforward. But it isn't an opiate. It's a protein. Saying it's a narcotic is hyperbolic exaggeration. Expect the vegans to counter by saying that the protein in meat is an opiate.

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10176 · November 16, 2013 at 7:24 PM

You are not a moron. I like paleo for the emphasis on ancestral eating and hunt-and-gather ancestral behavior. Most Paleos miss this and lead with their ass. Instead of doing the right thing and getting out of their car, they drive around looking for supplements and perfect foods. And ripping on people that aren't as perfect as they are. They cite Darwin but they are really Neo Calvinists.

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459 · November 16, 2013 at 2:39 PM

"Personal inability to maintain body weight due to gluttony" you say? I'm 5'10" and I weight 144 lbs which puts my BMI at 20. I IF nearly everyday and stay under 50g net carbs, and you're calling me a glutton? Seriously you're a fucking joke kid, btw this is paleohacks, if you want to cram bread into your mouth like a fatass, you should GTFO and reconsider WTF you're doing here on this website, besides trolling that is.

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0 · November 15, 2013 at 10:33 PM

seems my o button is a hard moterfucker

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0 · November 15, 2013 at 10:27 PM

Why is it most people I know eat bread and most of them are lean people? Could you maybe be looking to blame a whole food group and use it as a scapegoat for your personal inability to maintain weight and body fat levels due to gluttony?

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1097 · November 15, 2013 at 10:13 PM

Yeah, exactly. And people wonder why I politely decline a piece of their cinnabun, lol!

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459 · November 15, 2013 at 10:06 PM

Then yes, I would stay away as far as possible from it. Good God I remember those days I would eat a HeartHealthyWholeGrain sub with chicken and veggies for lunch and then feel like I was going to pass out and die from a stroke 30 minutes later, not to mention the mental fogginess.

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1097 · November 15, 2013 at 10:01 PM

Are we only talking about weight gain? My issue with gluten is the digestive distress and malabsorption = mental haze and incredible laziness.

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459 · November 15, 2013 at 10:01 PM

Are you one of those WAPF trolls? Or a John McDougall worshipper? Either way, enjoy that bread, heck you might as well enjoy it because you'll pay for it sooner or later. Say hi to the visceral fat for me.

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459 · November 15, 2013 at 9:53 PM

I actually agree. Gluten is a protein. When it comes to flour, less Gluten = more starch (carbs), clearly not a good thing for "lazy fat people". The other side effects of Gluten, like malabsorption and digestive distress pose different problems, but the weight gain per se is more attributable to the high starch content than to the gluten protein content.

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459 · November 15, 2013 at 5:20 PM

So you are saying fat people and unhealthy people for that matter (metabolic syndrome) didn't exist before 1963? Wow, Einstein was right after all.

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.” ― Albert Einstein

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0 · November 15, 2013 at 5:01 PM

good job what you say is provable…. Oh wait.

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519 · November 15, 2013 at 4:23 PM

You are a moron im sorry... "Broscience" get over yourself. I'm also sorry but 37,000 a year in California for 3 adults is below the poverty line.

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519 · November 15, 2013 at 4:20 PM

You are full of shit... Hey guess what cigarettes aren't bad for you either until you develop COPD, Emphysema, and or Cancer. I will no longer eat grains period as I want to live a long and healthy life.

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0 · November 15, 2013 at 4:07 PM

yup. gotta love the gluten free fad. five years from now it'll be something different, but equally stupid.

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0 · November 15, 2013 at 12:18 AM

thats wealthy, for most people in the world, that is hella well off. Also, millionaire and wealthy enough to worry about non-existent problems are two different things.

Unless you are gluten intolerant, gluten is not bad. All the broscience and kelly starett marketing in the world won't make bullshit fact.

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10 · November 14, 2013 at 9:34 PM

You'd be alot more credible if you actually did some research before posting things like this and contradicting without evidence. Robb Wolf's "Paleo Solution" describes in detail how leaky gut occurs. It's gross.

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1097 · November 14, 2013 at 9:28 PM

When 3 adults living off of 37k a year is wealthy, please let me know. Thanks.

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5 · November 14, 2013 at 3:45 PM

Read The Paleolithic Solution by Robb Wolf while you're at it.

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5 · November 14, 2013 at 3:05 PM

Also read Grain Brain by Dr. Perlmutter

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198 · September 13, 2013 at 9:30 PM

My wife had not been able to eat eggs without severe stomach issues since childhood. When I went Paleo, she followed along and gave up wheat, etc. She then decided to try eating small portions of eggs and she can now eat 3-4 eggs at a time with zero issues. Grains and gluten were absolutely causing irritations or inflammation that made egg protein hard to digest. Not sure if that is leaky gut, but it is a provable fact in this family.

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598 · September 13, 2013 at 8:53 PM

I'm pretty sure I'm not celiac but somehow wheat and gluten seriously disturb my digestion. I do okay with other fast carb sources like white rice and potatoes but I've learned to limit them for other reasons. Wheat, in particular, makes me irritable, gassy, constipated, lethargic, and generally feel less good. I didn't realize this until I experimented with cutting it out entirely for a few weeks. Then I went back on it. I've tried going back and fourth a few more times just to make sure I'm not fooling myself but now I know: gluten/wheat is definitely not for me.

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10176 · September 06, 2013 at 12:18 PM

I've yet to find any scientific evidence for the so-called leaky gut. It's an urban diet legend, lumped in with cleanses and herbal supplements. It has nothing to do with how our ancestors lived, and everything to do with modern quacks.

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10176 · September 06, 2013 at 12:14 PM

This is terrible advice. Give us the why. Otherwise this is just pimping some guys book.

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7292 · September 06, 2013 at 3:39 AM

You are an idiot moron troll.

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1005 · May 25, 2013 at 8:27 PM

(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1247588/ this kinda stuff)

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1005 · May 25, 2013 at 8:22 PM

(I think there is a slight connection between the GM foods that don't carry labels, the HFCS and gluten that are in everything, and the massive profits to be made in several sectors.)

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1005 · May 25, 2013 at 8:12 PM

Well, sugar is subsidized in America.

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1005 · May 25, 2013 at 8:12 PM

Well, sugar is subsidized in American.

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10176 · May 25, 2013 at 2:32 PM

I understand your contentions, but I consider them trivial for anyone who is not celiac. The problem with grains is that they digest easily and are overeaten.

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10176 · May 25, 2013 at 2:24 PM

I don't think lazy fat populations have ANYTHING to do with gluten content. High gluten flours are used to make stretchy French bread, low gluten flours are used to make cakes and pies. The worst flours for fat lazy people are ones which are gluten free.

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10994 · May 25, 2013 at 12:04 PM

No, that is not too much protein.

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1005 · May 25, 2013 at 10:00 AM

For whatever reason, I guess the more productive plants had more gluten. (Kind of like how more productive corn and cotton has more BT toxin, or more productive chickens eat more corn / soy and stay indoors.) It's about quantity for sale rather than preserving the genetics or way of life. They benefit directly by having better looking disease-free crops, higher yields, and more money for their company and investors. (And indirectly, a lazy fat population that needs a lifetime of healthcare and drugs is a goldmine.)

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1005 · May 25, 2013 at 9:58 AM

For whatever reason, I guess the more productive plants had more gluten. (Kind of like how more productive corn and cotton has more BT toxin, or more productive chickens eat more corn / soy and stay indoors.) It's about quantity for sale rather than preserving the genetics or way of life. They benefit directly by not having better looking disease-free crops, higher yields, and more money for their companies and investors.

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20 · May 25, 2013 at 9:48 AM

By the way, I hope it's all right to ask this as a side question; is one can of sardines a day in olive oil too much meat/protein for someone who seldom eats meat? Thanks :)

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20 · May 25, 2013 at 9:45 AM

Yes, definitely! The absolute last thing I want to do is follow something blindly, which is why I've been researching my target diet so feverently. I found such an interesting (and very, very long) post on one of the best documentaries I've watched (Forks Over Knives). It made me realize that a strict Vegan diet not including any meat is absurd, and that fish is one of the best forms of meat you can add :D So, fish every week for me (and probably a big reduction in my grain consumption. http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/09/22/forks-over-knives-is-the-science-legit-a-review-and-critique/

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20 · May 25, 2013 at 9:39 AM

That's interesting; why did the agriculture business do that? Exactly what benefit do they reap from having more gluten in the grains?

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1005 · May 25, 2013 at 7:42 AM

(Also interesting is that grains didn't used to have so much gluten. They have been selectively bred this way by the companies that own the agriculture business. Same thing with cows that have been bred to have more A1 beta-casein.)

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1005 · May 25, 2013 at 7:40 AM

(Also interesting is that grains didn't used to have so much gluten. They have been selectively breed this way by the companies that own the agriculture business. Same thing with cows that have been breed to have more A1 beta-casein.)

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1005 · May 25, 2013 at 7:21 AM

(You'll find similar problems with Soy. Difficult to even find eggs that don't carry the soy proteins.)

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1005 · May 25, 2013 at 7:19 AM

It can also mess with your skin (dermatitis herpetiformis). It's a pretty non-ideal food that's suddenly in everything and being fed to everything.

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1005 · May 25, 2013 at 7:14 AM

Sort of. The pharmacology isn't as straight forward (it's not like you can get a buzz on gluten.) More so a drug in that it can cross the blood barrier and get into your brain and muck with your system binding to immunomodulating opioid receptors in cells that would be better off without it.

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3150 · May 25, 2013 at 6:57 AM

Well, this is what you will find over the net if you do a search, I haven't reviewed all the scientific literature about this but I think it's not a proven fact that grains can be that bad, it's something you should experiment with and see how it works for you, many people eat them on a regular basis and seems to not be affected at all. Question everything you read, think that if you're going to get rid of grains this will impact a lot on your eating habits/options when you go out socially, etc. You better do it for a reason!. For me, I really think it's better to stay away but that's just me.

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20 · May 25, 2013 at 6:51 AM

Thank you for the answer! Gluten is like a drug? Like caffeine, then?

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20 · May 25, 2013 at 6:47 AM

Thank you for the answer! I didn't know gluten could hurt your stomach so much. Gas is a bit of an issue with me, I wonder if limiting my bread will help. I might just try it.

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197651282ddd8d675b974ee811d2269e
2
1826 · May 25, 2013 at 5:23 PM

Read the book Wheat Belly by William Davis, M.D.

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5 · November 14, 2013 at 3:45 PM

Read The Paleolithic Solution by Robb Wolf while you're at it.

46f7fc24a213b038ab3f0a97c73a5441
5 · November 14, 2013 at 3:05 PM

Also read Grain Brain by Dr. Perlmutter

Medium avatar
10176 · September 06, 2013 at 12:14 PM

This is terrible advice. Give us the why. Otherwise this is just pimping some guys book.

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3150 · May 25, 2013 at 6:24 AM

This is a complex topic but to sum it up, there are two principal concerns with gluten (and grains and legumes in general):

  • They are highly glycemic carbohydrate foods that will easily spike your blood sugar and make a heavy insulin response. This works pretty bad from a weight management view point and it's something you would want to limit for optimal health. This could be limited with moderate amounts of it so it's not the biggest deal with grains but is something to consider. If you get too much (as in typical SAD diet) you start getting constant blood sugar spikes = fat storing ability = obesity = metabolic syndrome = most modern disease causes from today, depending on how bad you go into this destruction spiral you can get to CVD and diabetes as the worst issues.

  • The real deal: Gluten and in general some other particles present in grains (lectins) seem to hurt the gut lining very badly which will lead you to a leaky gut. Once you develop it you start not being able to digest food as well as before and if things get very bad you can start leaking some proteins to the body that could lead to an immune reaction which will cause nasty effects as food sensitivities and overall body inflammation. You can start experiencing stomach issues like gas, bloating, cramps, etc. This will depend a lot on how tolerant you are with it, how much of the amylase digesting enzyme you have, etc. that's why some people like celiacs cannot stand gluten but some other can to some extent, but it seems that in the end most of us would benefit from getting rid of it.

Medium avatar
598 · September 13, 2013 at 8:53 PM

I'm pretty sure I'm not celiac but somehow wheat and gluten seriously disturb my digestion. I do okay with other fast carb sources like white rice and potatoes but I've learned to limit them for other reasons. Wheat, in particular, makes me irritable, gassy, constipated, lethargic, and generally feel less good. I didn't realize this until I experimented with cutting it out entirely for a few weeks. Then I went back on it. I've tried going back and fourth a few more times just to make sure I'm not fooling myself but now I know: gluten/wheat is definitely not for me.

Medium avatar
10176 · May 25, 2013 at 2:32 PM

I understand your contentions, but I consider them trivial for anyone who is not celiac. The problem with grains is that they digest easily and are overeaten.

64596377105f22e55f3064896ce2a6bb
20 · May 25, 2013 at 9:45 AM

Yes, definitely! The absolute last thing I want to do is follow something blindly, which is why I've been researching my target diet so feverently. I found such an interesting (and very, very long) post on one of the best documentaries I've watched (Forks Over Knives). It made me realize that a strict Vegan diet not including any meat is absurd, and that fish is one of the best forms of meat you can add :D So, fish every week for me (and probably a big reduction in my grain consumption. http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/09/22/forks-over-knives-is-the-science-legit-a-review-and-critique/

048dd52752c45129c1212bfffb37ca72
3150 · May 25, 2013 at 6:57 AM

Well, this is what you will find over the net if you do a search, I haven't reviewed all the scientific literature about this but I think it's not a proven fact that grains can be that bad, it's something you should experiment with and see how it works for you, many people eat them on a regular basis and seems to not be affected at all. Question everything you read, think that if you're going to get rid of grains this will impact a lot on your eating habits/options when you go out socially, etc. You better do it for a reason!. For me, I really think it's better to stay away but that's just me.

64596377105f22e55f3064896ce2a6bb
20 · May 25, 2013 at 6:47 AM

Thank you for the answer! I didn't know gluten could hurt your stomach so much. Gas is a bit of an issue with me, I wonder if limiting my bread will help. I might just try it.

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10176 · May 25, 2013 at 2:13 PM

Gluten is considered bad in a Paleo sense because it comes from grain. Grain wasn't a dietary staple until about 30,000 years ago. If you accept this line of reasoning you avoid grain-containing foods.

In a more positivist sense, some foods are better for your health than others. If you slant your diet towards fresh vegetables, fruit and meats/seafood you displace the grain foods.

Edit 11/18/13: The opioid argument against gluten can be applied to animal proteins like albumin. You'll get a bigger rush from an egg than from a piece of toast. Here's a reference on opioid peptide sources:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12769741/

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1005 · May 25, 2013 at 6:38 AM

Gluten is psychoactive like an opiate (think heroin.) So at the heart of it, you're taking something that's going to make you fatigued. The grains that contain gluten contain lectin. This fucks with your insulin / metabolism, so you're going to be unable to use your energy correctly.. making you weak / fatigued / tired. Then, there's phytates which fuck with your ability to use / absorb nutrients, so you're going to deteriorate. It's like fat-fatigue in food form.

Now, consider the food it's in and imagine eating that with every meal, every day and the meat you eat being fed that with every meal, every day. There are consequences (easy to google) that most of us here like to avoid / correct.

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1005 · May 25, 2013 at 8:27 PM

(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1247588/ this kinda stuff)

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1005 · May 25, 2013 at 8:22 PM

(I think there is a slight connection between the GM foods that don't carry labels, the HFCS and gluten that are in everything, and the massive profits to be made in several sectors.)

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1005 · May 25, 2013 at 8:12 PM

Well, sugar is subsidized in America.

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1005 · May 25, 2013 at 8:12 PM

Well, sugar is subsidized in American.

Medium avatar
10176 · May 25, 2013 at 2:24 PM

I don't think lazy fat populations have ANYTHING to do with gluten content. High gluten flours are used to make stretchy French bread, low gluten flours are used to make cakes and pies. The worst flours for fat lazy people are ones which are gluten free.

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1005 · May 25, 2013 at 10:00 AM

For whatever reason, I guess the more productive plants had more gluten. (Kind of like how more productive corn and cotton has more BT toxin, or more productive chickens eat more corn / soy and stay indoors.) It's about quantity for sale rather than preserving the genetics or way of life. They benefit directly by having better looking disease-free crops, higher yields, and more money for their company and investors. (And indirectly, a lazy fat population that needs a lifetime of healthcare and drugs is a goldmine.)

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1005 · May 25, 2013 at 9:58 AM

For whatever reason, I guess the more productive plants had more gluten. (Kind of like how more productive corn and cotton has more BT toxin, or more productive chickens eat more corn / soy and stay indoors.) It's about quantity for sale rather than preserving the genetics or way of life. They benefit directly by not having better looking disease-free crops, higher yields, and more money for their companies and investors.

64596377105f22e55f3064896ce2a6bb
20 · May 25, 2013 at 9:39 AM

That's interesting; why did the agriculture business do that? Exactly what benefit do they reap from having more gluten in the grains?

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57
1005 · May 25, 2013 at 7:42 AM

(Also interesting is that grains didn't used to have so much gluten. They have been selectively bred this way by the companies that own the agriculture business. Same thing with cows that have been bred to have more A1 beta-casein.)

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57
1005 · May 25, 2013 at 7:40 AM

(Also interesting is that grains didn't used to have so much gluten. They have been selectively breed this way by the companies that own the agriculture business. Same thing with cows that have been breed to have more A1 beta-casein.)

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57
1005 · May 25, 2013 at 7:21 AM

(You'll find similar problems with Soy. Difficult to even find eggs that don't carry the soy proteins.)

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1005 · May 25, 2013 at 7:19 AM

It can also mess with your skin (dermatitis herpetiformis). It's a pretty non-ideal food that's suddenly in everything and being fed to everything.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57
1005 · May 25, 2013 at 7:14 AM

Sort of. The pharmacology isn't as straight forward (it's not like you can get a buzz on gluten.) More so a drug in that it can cross the blood barrier and get into your brain and muck with your system binding to immunomodulating opioid receptors in cells that would be better off without it.

64596377105f22e55f3064896ce2a6bb
20 · May 25, 2013 at 6:51 AM

Thank you for the answer! Gluten is like a drug? Like caffeine, then?

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0 · November 16, 2013 at 5:24 AM

Personally, I am 100% gluten free 75% of the time. Most of my indiscretions are from eating out sushi/Chinese/Thai a couple of time a week and the occasional beer. But I did go hardcore paleo for 3 months (no gluten, no grains of any kind, no dairy, no soy, no fruit) and I never felt better but it's just too hard for me to maintain on a day to day basis. But I also agree with Robb Wolf's belief that you can't really obtain full benefits of paleo until you do a 30 day elimination diet.

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1097 · November 16, 2013 at 3:16 AM

@GrapestreetCrip88 Everyone's different. My thing with paleo (in whatever form you choose. There are so many options) is that you don't have to do the traditional to feel awesome. We do much more PHD and I think lots of people who do that who react poorly to traditional paleo would find it less shocking to the system. Anyway, when we need flour we have rice flour and tapioca. No issue there. :) And we have baked goods 1 or 2 times a month, and we don't feel deprived.

My other issue is that lots of people's bodies can handle it when they're younger and then they hit *insert middle age here* and then it all goes to sh*t. And wouldn't it make more sense to just prevent that? I'd rather not find out at 40 that I've been doing something abusive for so long.

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0 · November 17, 2013 at 10:26 AM

@O Siodhachain

This sounds like it would be very useful to friends -- could you elaborate on what doing "much more PHD" looks like, or what typical foods in a day/week are?

"I think lots of people who do that who react poorly to traditional paleo would find it less shocking to the system." sounds potentially useful and very interesting. Why do some people react poorly to traditional Paleo?

The second point is a well written and well-made point.

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0 · November 16, 2013 at 2:26 AM

when i say cornflour I'm speaking of the generic brands like the mexican one I get, it has corn as the main ingredient but had a bunch of other stuff like white flour, cane sugar and otter grain and additives in.

Though you could just add bread with the meals I guess, or add plain flour as a thickener.

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0 · November 16, 2013 at 2:22 AM

Jeez, you guys got the short end of the stick with the genetics lottery. My father is the same and to a degree me too. I can eat a couple pizzas every night and feel good and not get too big even from sustained eating but my brothers on my mothers side can drink 10 beers a night, eat junk all day everyday with no exercise and still have these crazy yoked physiques.

Funnily engh when my father tried the pale diet he had to stop due to it giving him heartburn and digestion problems, thats why I don't like the dogma on any side, some people thrive without gluten some react to pale

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690 · November 16, 2013 at 9:12 PM

That makes sense... people are different. What some can eat w/o a problem, can be a problem for others. Nutrition is much more complicated than people think. Interesting, switching away from wheat & wheat products...going towards paleo stopped my heartburn & acid reflux. Here's a long post about how the issue of sugar & sugar in food is much more nuanced than simple slogans, like "Sugar is toxic". http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/is-sugar-toxic I'm sure wheat is the same

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1097 · November 16, 2013 at 2:16 AM

@GrapestreetCrip88 Well, these are my married-in family I'm talking about. So, no genetic relation to them. Also, why corn? Corn's gluten free and corn gluten isn't the same as wheat gluten.

I have a wife who wasn't into eating anything and who suffers from bipolar. Dropping the gluten means less extreme swings and greater energy (and general feeling like crap was a big trigger for her anyway). She's reacted to unknown corn in the past... though of course, that's gluten-free. She reacts mentally to pretty much everything but white rice. Her food uptake has also dramatically increased, because she has more drive to cut and chew that she didn't have during her gluten days. We took gluten out first and she started feeling better immediately; less insomnia, less anxiety, more concentration. We didn't take out beans or dairy until later, and she's wary of me introducing fruits and veggies so that's been slow and thus there wasn't a big change in nutrition.

My father-in-law has had intermittent heart burn/cramping/diarrhea issues his entire life. It would put him in bed sometimes. At 62 he had pretty strong arthritis and his chronic depression was incredible. He didn't want anything to do with this diet. He fought, and gnawed, and complained, and demanded, but I make the food, so... there you go. The thing he got the first time he 'rebelled' and ate a couple of brownies from our favorite bakery was spend that night in the bathroom with horrible stomach pains among other things. But, he stopped doing that and I tells everyone at work about his gluten-free diet and how amazing he feels. In fact, I can't get him to be quiet, since, you know. I get it, lol.

I just know I'm gluten intolerant, I really just don't need to get into it. I have a classic case that's near celiac except that it doesn't quite put me in bed. Just the bathroom.

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0 · November 16, 2013 at 1:56 AM

@O Siodhachain

Yeah it sounds like you could have a gluten issue as well as those in your immediate family.

Have you considered the food addiction/emotional hazards when it comes to your loved ones and food?

My mother will eat healthily, all veg and seafood and fruit and feel great and then one night she will eat cake and feel terrible, however I think this is a lethargy deal, where she has emotional ties to food and once she gives in and eats crap she goes into a junk food coma and feels crappy.

However she did the same thing in the past when she was far less emotionally tied to food and did not get those same after affects because she simply didn't worry and starve her self of junk in the past, so when she ate it she didn't feel like she had failed and become depressed. Again obviously we have different perspectives on things and you are in a better position to judge than me as I am not there and thus can't give any helpful diagnosis other than speculation.

I would just say the mind is a powerful thing and food is something extremely powerful when it comes to how our body feels. Cycles of addiction can lead to very real physical symptoms that could correlate with those of gluten sensitivity. A simple test to see if gluten is the culprit is to add in corn flour to a stew or a curry and see if they have any adverse reaction. If not then it is most likely eating shitty food that is making them feel shitty or a mental reaction to the depression and trauma of mental addiction. If they feel fine ingesting the unknown corn flour then you can easily rule out Gluten and thus expand your culinary adventures to involve yummy baked goods.

Best of luck.

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1097 · November 15, 2013 at 10:45 PM

@GrapestreetCrip88 Well, thank you for saying I seem like a nice person. I seriously appreciate that kind of thing in internet disagreements.

I'm not wasting the money on an official diagnosis, but I have three people in my family who can eat healthy all week, have a single piece of cake, and have brain fog, lethargy, trouble sleeping, and random pain for no other discernible reason. Maybe we're all gluten sensitive. Non-celiac gluten sensitivity does exist.

What you and I do agree on, however, is that gluten free is a fad right now and certain companies are trying to make money off of it. And people are falling for it like sillies. It won't help people who need an actual diet overhaul. And I completely believe that lots of people are not gluten sensitive... I also believe tons more are than current health experts say. I just come across too many miserable people in life who complain about things my family complains about and could help themselves by turning it around.

But whatever, we disagree and that's fine. YMMV. As long as no one thinks I'm wasting my money like a wealthy no-brainer, I'm good. No one gets my money except local farmers and walmart anyway.

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0 · November 15, 2013 at 10:32 PM

@O Siodhachain

There is absolutely no evidence that shows gluten is bad for you unless you have celiac disease. Most people who go pale think it is because they cut out gluten or dairy or some other thing. But its just because you are being conscious of taking in good, healthy food. Not because gluten is hurting you.

You seem like a nice person and I hope the best for you and your family, but this whole i ate good food and felt better so gluten is bad is just nonsense. I have eaten pale for months and then introduced grains but kept all the pale foods and felt great but removed limitations/cut cost

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690 · November 16, 2013 at 9:05 PM

I didn't go paleo "cold turkey". Gradually over about 6 months I eliminated more & more refined carbs from my diet. I first dropped wheat & wheat products, grains, sugar & dairy... 4 Hour Body diet mods. Then Primal Blueprint & finally arrived at paleo. Check this guy out... engineer, MD, nutritional researcher

http://eatingacademy.com/dr-peter-attia

http://eatingacademy.com/start-here

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690 · November 16, 2013 at 9:00 PM

You might consider reading this blog post and all of its referenced links. Gluten is one of the issues with wheat but not the only one.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-problems-with-modern-wheat/#axzz2kqLhdpmh http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20664999?dopt=Abstract

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0 · November 15, 2013 at 10:33 PM

seems my o button is a hard moterfucker

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0 · November 15, 2013 at 9:20 PM

I, too, am not paleo, but find the topics on this site marvelous. I happily ate gluten until stomach issues arose at age 47 (two years ago). One theory is that if you live in the US bread products are make with a hybrid wheat that is far higher in gluten than 40 or 50 years ago. Also, bread is now designed to be made ridiculously fast--a true sourdough is tough to come by. Another idea is that once hybrids are created who knows what happens to the molecular structure (ever look into type A1 vs A2 cows. . . ). Finally, with the low fat craze, many have been eating carbs without fats--that's bound to wreak havoc.

With all that said, in my personal experience once the digestion is messed up it's far from easy to get it working again. Be aware of where the flour is coming from, consider how much you consume, and are you eating fat with it. My hope is your gut doesn't rebel like mine did. We're all different. Still one day I dream of being able to bake homemade bread again and then slab on a thick layer of butter and enjoy without major bloating.

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1097 · November 15, 2013 at 9:06 PM

@GrapestreetCrip88 The point isn't, 'is this better than most people in the world?' Your comment says, 'some people have too much money and therefore can waste it on hype.

We live paycheck to paycheck and could easily eat SAD again to get a little more cash loosened up so we can do things like save money and go out or drive somewhere, or something. But, we eat Paleo and gluten-free instead. Why? Because we no longer spend money on painkillers for my chronic headaches, my father-in-law's arthritic hips and back. No more money spent on my wife's allergy pills. We don't live life constantly feeling like shit anymore.

MY point, is how many other people feel this way and think its normal? We all did. .We learned its not. I wish I could share that with everyone, and 'gluten free' is the first step for many people trying to feel better.

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10176 · November 18, 2013 at 5:40 PM

+1 for the constructive N=1 experience.

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0 · November 15, 2013 at 7:05 PM

It's inflammatory. inflammation causes heart attacks and strokes. eat less inflammatory foods and more anti inflammatory like fish oil

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2353 · November 15, 2013 at 6:12 PM

You might want to listen to/read the transcript of this interview of Dr. Alesso Fasano by Chris Kresser to get a better understanding of the main problem with gliadin, the problematic protein fragment in gluten: the body treats it as a toxin, opening the tight junctions of the small intestines to inject water to flush the gliadin out. But the opening is two-way: all sorts of stuff that's never supposed to leave the small intestines before it's broken down by enzymes. That causes havoc at remote sites in the body.

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0 · November 15, 2013 at 4:10 PM

gluten is fine for most people. especially if the bread is sourdough. don't believe the fear-mongering lunatics

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459 · November 15, 2013 at 10:01 PM

Are you one of those WAPF trolls? Or a John McDougall worshipper? Either way, enjoy that bread, heck you might as well enjoy it because you'll pay for it sooner or later. Say hi to the visceral fat for me.

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519 · November 15, 2013 at 4:20 PM

You are full of shit... Hey guess what cigarettes aren't bad for you either until you develop COPD, Emphysema, and or Cancer. I will no longer eat grains period as I want to live a long and healthy life.

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0 · November 15, 2013 at 12:18 AM

thats wealthy, for most people in the world, that is hella well off. Also, millionaire and wealthy enough to worry about non-existent problems are two different things.

Unless you are gluten intolerant, gluten is not bad. All the broscience and kelly starett marketing in the world won't make bullshit fact.

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10176 · November 16, 2013 at 7:24 PM

You are not a moron. I like paleo for the emphasis on ancestral eating and hunt-and-gather ancestral behavior. Most Paleos miss this and lead with their ass. Instead of doing the right thing and getting out of their car, they drive around looking for supplements and perfect foods. And ripping on people that aren't as perfect as they are. They cite Darwin but they are really Neo Calvinists.

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519 · November 15, 2013 at 4:23 PM

You are a moron im sorry... "Broscience" get over yourself. I'm also sorry but 37,000 a year in California for 3 adults is below the poverty line.

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0 · November 14, 2013 at 7:29 PM

because some people have too much money and develop hypochondria.

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1097 · November 14, 2013 at 9:28 PM

When 3 adults living off of 37k a year is wealthy, please let me know. Thanks.

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273 · November 14, 2013 at 7:28 PM

Basically it is tied to a large number of chronic medical conditions due to a number of factors. It disrupts intestinal integrity (irritates the gut leading to leaky gut and increased systemic inflammation), It is a high glycemic index food, it can disrupt the absorption of nutrients into our bodies from other foods, and it not nutrient dense.

Basically, it is overall an inflammatory food, and there is no real reason to eat it since it is very nutrient poor. We can get calories and nutrients fro other foods that are safeer to consume.

http://www.thebarefootgolfer.com/2013/08/08/wheat-gluten-and-bread-a-useless-food/

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5 · November 14, 2013 at 2:48 PM

Leaky gut. Acne for sensitive people. Inflammation. Immune system compromise to name a few common things.

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8 · September 06, 2013 at 2:40 AM

What a load of shite!! Metabolic disorder is a modern man disease only really seen in the last 50 years if that. People have been consuming grains like barley and wheat for thousands of years maybe tens of thousands of years. It is true that when grains are highly processed into stuff like Uncle Bens Converted rice and white flour that they rank high on the glycemic index, but whole grains like barley, whole wheat, bulgar, cracked wheat, spelt, etc are not only not that high on the index but full of nutrition and fiber. Another thing that is forgotten in this equation is the fiber. Fiber will slow the digestion and absorption of carbohydrates further reducing the asorption rates. THis is not always accounted for in the index. If you have celiac disease or a known sensitivity to gluten then by all means avoid it. For everyone else avoid highly processed versions of these grains and you can be healthy and happy. Leaky guts? Give me a break. What kind of scientific evidence supports that wild fantasy.

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459 · November 15, 2013 at 5:20 PM

So you are saying fat people and unhealthy people for that matter (metabolic syndrome) didn't exist before 1963? Wow, Einstein was right after all.

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.” ― Albert Einstein

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10 · November 14, 2013 at 9:34 PM

You'd be alot more credible if you actually did some research before posting things like this and contradicting without evidence. Robb Wolf's "Paleo Solution" describes in detail how leaky gut occurs. It's gross.

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10176 · September 06, 2013 at 12:18 PM

I've yet to find any scientific evidence for the so-called leaky gut. It's an urban diet legend, lumped in with cleanses and herbal supplements. It has nothing to do with how our ancestors lived, and everything to do with modern quacks.

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7292 · September 06, 2013 at 3:39 AM

You are an idiot moron troll.

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