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Interesting link between flora and cancer?

by (80)
Updated about 1 hour ago
Created October 18, 2011 at 3:00 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/18/health/18cancer.html?src=rechp

Another reason to keep inflammation to a minimum!!

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6433 · October 18, 2011 at 9:53 PM

Ah, I misinterpreted what you said as describing a consciously malicious act, not the problems inherent in the system. To be frank, I live in a country with what Americans (I think) call "socialised medicine" so I'm not intimately acquainted with the US health care system.

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5132 · October 18, 2011 at 9:40 PM

U gotta understand the economic motive underlying our health care system. It's not a system designed to cure; it's a system designed to keep you in treatment. Doctors cannot make money from a steady flow of patient visits without undertaking major diagnostic or invasive procedure. Hosptials cannot stay solvent without pushing for these procedures that do not make any risk/reward sense. Is everyone acting in malice consciously? No. But the system is set up that way to pay the bills. Why tell the patient your CVD risk is not reduced after an angioplasty?

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6433 · October 18, 2011 at 9:30 PM

I like to think that I have a healthy scepticism about the health industry, but I baulk at ascribing that sort cynical malice to doctors, especially as this supposedly wide-spread behaviour would’ve been on the basis of a recent and rather obscure theory.

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78422 · October 18, 2011 at 4:17 PM

interesting. Thx

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2 Answers

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5132 · October 18, 2011 at 9:18 PM

It's along the lines of what's proposed in Paul Jaminet's PHD. It's the infection that's the starter. Inflammation follows. All diseases; no exceptions.

Sugar, insulin, and IGF-1 may all play a role by feeding tumor cells. But to get the ball moving, it's always a run of the mill infection ... and a chink in your body armor, I mean in your immune system, that affords an opening for these bacteria to take hold and proliferate. If you think about it, this fits in with CVD as well: HDL, the cleaning crew, is the most important component.

I supposed if you have deforested your gut flora (and you have UC or Crohn's), then you're more susceptible to cancer. If so, then probably the worst thing you can do is to have a colonoscopy: the antibiotic and prep you take for the procedure might deforest your flora (and sometimes take out your kindeys too, while at it) and make you susceptible for colon cancer. Now we know why doctors keep pushing for colonoscopies! It's not the billing for the procedure ($3000-$5000 per head); the real payoff is 2 years down the road when you actually contract cancer due to the procedure!

Wait, isn't angioplasty supposed to work the same way? Lull the patient into thinking you've saved his life by unclogging his artery. All the while, blood clots are breaking off in thousands of locations due to inflammation. 90% of fatal CVD events are caused by thrombosis (loose blood clots unhinged by inflammation), not stenosis (artery thickening).

Without angioplasty, endoscopy, colonoscopy, chemotherapy, and related procedures, all of our hospitals will have to go out of business. Many have actually gone out of business, as a matter fact, as knowledge of HDL's importance and supplementing with Niacin have crept in. If only we realized that it's not necessarily the disease that actually kills you; it's as much the risk from the procedure designed to be diagnostic and preventative that may actually be more dangerous.

I don't wanna paint a one sided picture here. But as a patient, you need to be skeptical. Get a second opinion. Your doc might be padding your risk profile to meet the insurance criteria for an expensive procedure. Know your risk: if the risk of complications (worse, dying) from a proeedure is 5% and your risk of contracting the disease is 3%, does it make sense to have a procedure? And no, your doctor nor the hospital will ever tell you about such risks. Dr. Marcus Weiby no longer practices in America.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8
5132 · October 18, 2011 at 9:40 PM

U gotta understand the economic motive underlying our health care system. It's not a system designed to cure; it's a system designed to keep you in treatment. Doctors cannot make money from a steady flow of patient visits without undertaking major diagnostic or invasive procedure. Hosptials cannot stay solvent without pushing for these procedures that do not make any risk/reward sense. Is everyone acting in malice consciously? No. But the system is set up that way to pay the bills. Why tell the patient your CVD risk is not reduced after an angioplasty?

Fa9f340eddbad9a544184c688fa4dcdd
6433 · October 18, 2011 at 9:30 PM

I like to think that I have a healthy scepticism about the health industry, but I baulk at ascribing that sort cynical malice to doctors, especially as this supposedly wide-spread behaviour would’ve been on the basis of a recent and rather obscure theory.

Fa9f340eddbad9a544184c688fa4dcdd
6433 · October 18, 2011 at 9:53 PM

Ah, I misinterpreted what you said as describing a consciously malicious act, not the problems inherent in the system. To be frank, I live in a country with what Americans (I think) call "socialised medicine" so I'm not intimately acquainted with the US health care system.

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80 · November 20, 2011 at 11:25 PM

I think Paul's PhD is in Physics. His own research deals with this biological inquiry. THe link between infection and cancer started with Zur Hausen's work on HPV 30 years ago, now recognized by the Nobel. The question has remained open, however, how many cancer are caused by inappropriate infections. It is very clear that inflammation can promote cancer - a paradigmatic example of this is the increased propensity of patients with ulcerative colitis to suffer colorectal cancer.

It is unclear whether the presence of this bacterium is causative, or merely correlative with colon cancer. Either way, this discovery is hopefully a foothold into better understanding carcinogenic mechanisms.

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