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Is Leaky Gut Syndrome real?

by (35)
Updated about 8 hours ago
Created August 24, 2011 at 8:09 PM

Been having problems on an off for about 5 years (I???m 32 now ??? 5???-11, 150 lbs, male). Mainly with a rash on my face (doctors finally determined it is seborrheic dermatitis), a pain in my right hip (comes and goes, gets pretty bad at times), and digestion problems. Been to the doctors numerous times??? they have tested me for everything under the sun with no answers. I???ve had 2 xrays on my hip which show no bone damage or anything abnormal. They want to do an MRI, but I???m not sure I want to shell out the $500 or so it will cost me because I doubt they will give me any real answers either. I have been told I have a high sed rate (24 at last testing??? should be between 0 and 15) which is a marker of general inflammation.

I???ve done tons of research online and really think I might have leaky gut syndrome. I ate a standard American diet for years... lots of beer too. I was also taking a good bit of advil for the hip pain (as directed by my doctor) and was given prednisone a couple of times for the rash.. both of which I now know can contribute to leaky gut. When the doctors failed to help me, I stated experimenting with my diet. I went gluten free for a month or so with no real change in symptoms. Then I cut our all sugars (except stevia) and processed foods for a week or two.. noticed some improvement in the rash. I've also been taking probiotics, flax oil, zinc, vit. D, and a multivitamin. For the last week or so I have been eating pretty strict paleo and also applying coconut oil to the rash??? which has almost cleared up. My hip is still hurting though??? do I just need to give it more time, or do I need to try something else? I???ve read about the GAPS introduction diet, but not sure if that is what I need to do or not.

Thoughts? Does leaky gut even exist? Does that sound like what I have? Should I make any changes in my diet?

Thanks.

3f11b5fda91063846bba45daac3541bd
1186 · September 08, 2011 at 1:30 PM

he's an anthroposophic MD-- wrote "Fourfold Path to Healing" which is co-written with Sally Fallon of WAPF.

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25467 · August 30, 2011 at 1:57 AM

http://jackkruse.com/the-leaky-gut-prescription/

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
25467 · August 30, 2011 at 1:56 AM

http://jackkruse.com/where-autoimmunity-cancer-and-disease-collide/

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628
3631 · August 30, 2011 at 12:26 AM

i don't know, i wonder the same thing. gelatin is quite processed/refined, so bone broth probably has many ineffable as well as quantifiable betternesses, as a whole-r food.

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628
3631 · August 26, 2011 at 4:22 AM

i've been wondering the same thing, and have begun including gelatin occasionally. I'd MUCH rather drink broth, but it's kind of a p.i.t.a.. and tho i know ppl keep saying they get bones for free -- 'round here grass-fed bones cost $3+/lb. for BONES. I'm not cheap, but i *am* broke, and food i can chew has become a priority.

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1773 · August 26, 2011 at 12:03 AM

Of course though honestly I don't really care what you do; go for it. I just wanted to point out a few things. LOL JK!! I guess I'm supposed to not care though, because that would be the "cool" way to be. Can't be too over-interested or enthusiastic... no, can't have that.

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1773 · August 26, 2011 at 12:01 AM

Bottom line, if you're outside in a pair of shorts, and you're wearing shoes (rather than going barefoot) simply because of the tick issue, you're overextending your reasoning, and my counter-arguments apply (i.e., you're wrong and being irrational). I see why wearing shoes with pants (as long as the socks are over the pants) would be safer than wearing no shoes with pants, but of course this by no means applies to when you're wearing SHORTS.

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1773 · August 25, 2011 at 11:59 PM

Bottom line, if you're outside in a pair of shorts, and you're wearing shoes (rather than going barefoot) simply because of the tick issue, you're overextending you're reasoning and my counter-arguments apply. I see why wearing shoes with pants (as long as the socks are over the pants) would be safer than wearing no shoes with pants, but of course this by no means applies to when you're wearing SHORTS.

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1773 · August 25, 2011 at 11:57 PM

This brings us to the simple point though that sometimes it's super hot outside and you wouldn't want to be wearing pants. If you're so scared of ticks that you'd wear pants even in humid 90 degree weather (or not even go out at all), then... uh yeah. But if you're willing to forgo the pants/socks thing and simply wear shorts when it's that hot, then there's no reason to be scared of also being barefoot.

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1773 · August 25, 2011 at 11:55 PM

So as usual, this argument has been revealed as a simple miscommunication. I thought you were arguing that it would be worse to be barefoot WHILE WEARING SHORTS (which I still disagree with), whereas you were actually arguing something quite different, i.e. that it would be worse to be barefoot WHILE WEARING PANTS, *ASSUMING YOU PUT YOUR SOCKS OVER YOUR PANT LEGS*.

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1773 · August 25, 2011 at 11:53 PM

I see what you mean. I was imagining you in shorts and a t-shirt all worried about being barefoot rather than wearing a pair of shoes. In THAT situation, you'd most certainly be at best BETTER off barefoot or at worst NO WORSE off. But if you're talking about a situation where you're wearing pants and could choose to wear shoes with the socks over the pants or no shoes at all, OF COURSE the shoes with the socks etc would be more protective.

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1773 · August 25, 2011 at 11:51 PM

I'm most certainly not responding as if you were telling me not to walk barefoot. Nothing in any of my responses implied that you cared or didn't want me to "go for it".

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1515 · August 25, 2011 at 8:29 PM

Do you think gelatin can be supplemented instead of bone broth?

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452 · August 25, 2011 at 5:33 PM

Ticks hide in grass,so for them to drop on your bare feet and attach itself is easier instead of when walking with shoes through grass with socks over the pants. Anyway it seems like you think I'm telling you not to walk barefoot,which I'm not.Honestly go for it,I really don't care,I just wanted to mention it as a shadowside which never gets highlighted as something one should look out for or at least keep in

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452 · August 25, 2011 at 5:32 PM

Ticks hide in grass,so for them to drop on your bare feet and attach itself is easier when walking with shoes through grass with socks over the pants. Anyway it seems like you think I'm telling you not to walk barefoot,which I'm not.Honestly go for it,I really don't care,I just wanted to mention it as a shadowside which never gets highlighted as something one should look out for or at least keep in mind.

6f2c00fcbf48c69f0ea212239b3e1178
1773 · August 25, 2011 at 3:45 PM

Maybe I should switch gears and simply ask, "What on earth do you think would make it more likely to get a tick if you're barefoot?" I don't get it. It seems like some sort of emotional reaction or something, like you find thinking about a tick on your skin as being disgusting or something, but you're not thinking hard enough to realize that what ACTUALLY matters (whether it attaches) would be much LESS likely if the tick has to crawl on your foot rather than a senseless shoe.

6f2c00fcbf48c69f0ea212239b3e1178
1773 · August 25, 2011 at 3:42 PM

Saying "no matter where on your body, you rarely feel ticks crawling around" doesn't exactly refute anything I said. The point is that having no shoes will make that rarity much more common, and even if it doesn't, it's not like there's any way it's gonna make getting a tick more likely.

6f2c00fcbf48c69f0ea212239b3e1178
1773 · August 25, 2011 at 3:41 PM

Well then you're simply being dogmatic. We already explained why being barefoot would not only not make it MORE likely for a tick to attach, but would most likely actually make it LESS likely.

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3631 · August 25, 2011 at 2:40 PM

I think gut flora mediates intestinal barrier function. It's something science is only beginning to explore seriously.

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628
3631 · August 25, 2011 at 2:38 PM

I think healthy gut flora mediates intestinal permeability. It's something science is just beginning to explore seriously.

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628
3631 · August 25, 2011 at 2:38 PM

I have come to suspect that in some cases, leaky gut is being called candida by frustrated, less informed people that have taken their health into their own hands. (like me, and maybe you). I don't have a doctor, but i know they aren't looking for intestinal permeability when treating the disparate problems, large or small, that can manifest from leaky gut (e.g. a rash). I'm pretty much of the mind that many common diseases begin in the gut, correlating strongly to the state of gut flora. A candida overgrowth is possible, of course, but it's not the only thing that can go wrong. (cont below)

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628
3631 · August 25, 2011 at 2:38 PM

Those paticular antifungals are pretty benign, so if you feel better with them, go for it. i'm not totally sure they are helpful tho, and garlic caps might be useless (?) but if they work for you DO IT! IMO, best to avoid the antifungals that are also strongly antibacterial e.g. GSE b/c you want to keep the population of good gut flora strong (i think i screwed this up). "Candida" such as it is known, is a slippery idea.. Of course organism candida albicans is real, but whether it manifests as you might be thinking may be questionable. I continue to consider it, however. (cont below)

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452 · August 25, 2011 at 1:38 PM

pfw It's not always neurological problems,that really depends on the type of Borrelia strain you have and other co-infections. maxpower...if you want to get tested properly then make sure you do varies bloodtests like ELISA,Blottest,PCR and take those outcomes to a LLMD so he/she can read &puzzle the outcomes together properly. Next to cancer it's the 2nd highest rated disease,yet while being underrated&misdiagnosed. No matter where on your body,you rarely feel ticks crawling around. Anyway,it's up to anyone to decide what to do,it's just that I wouldn't go barefoot ever,espacially in grass.

Cd3f369934d5449d804b0a248914439b
35 · August 25, 2011 at 1:37 PM

Thanks, great info there. I just started reading The Paleo Solution, seems to be a lot in there also, so I'm learning. Looking into the GAPS thing also. Is Candida directly related to leaky gut? I previously thought that Candida might be my problem, so I was on the Candida diet and taking various antifungals (coconut oil, apple cider vinegar, garlic capsules, etc.) for a while. Just wondering if I should continue with the antifungals or not.

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40 · August 25, 2011 at 2:35 AM

What type of doctor is Dr. Cowan? I have some similar issues and I'm not sure which doctor to go to. I've been to a few that haven't been helpful.

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3631 · August 25, 2011 at 2:22 AM

i can't figure out how to use the quote function...

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15229 · August 24, 2011 at 10:51 PM

oops- asked that before i read all the questions. egg on my face. so, my brother and three of my friends had lyme for ten-fifteen years before it was dx with a western blot. none of them have any neurological symptoms. my brothers only symptoms were left knee and right shoulder pain, with occasional frozen shoulder. one friend has some cardiac issues. neuro sx are not necessarily a part fo the profile. just get the blood test- no muss no fuss.

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15229 · August 24, 2011 at 10:47 PM

have you been tested for lyme disease?

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1773 · August 24, 2011 at 9:47 PM

Ticks tend to crawl around for 10+ minutes before attaching. If you're imagining that having no shoes on would make it so a tick would get on you an attach immediately, that's not how it works; the tick would start crawling on your foot, you'd either notice or not, and then it would go up and around your body for up to like 30 minutes. Bottom line, being barefoot would actually make you much more likely to notice the tick and then flick him off then wearing shoes that confer you no sensation of the tick crawling around, might have places for it to hide, might be camo for it, etc.

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1773 · August 24, 2011 at 9:44 PM

Actually being barefoot would most likely drastically lower the chances of getting a tick because you would notice it right away as it starts crawling on your foot, and even if you didn't, having no shoes on would certainly make it no MORE likely that one would attach...

6f2c00fcbf48c69f0ea212239b3e1178
1773 · August 24, 2011 at 9:44 PM

Actually being barefoot would most likely drastically lower the chances of getting a tick because you would notice it right away as it starts crawling on your foot, and even if you didn't it having no shoes on would certainly make it no MORE likely that one would attach...

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7821 · August 24, 2011 at 9:37 PM

Lyme's would probably have caused neurological symptoms by now if left untreated, but broadly yes: random joint pain is a feature of Lyme's. It's a blood test (no idea how much it costs) so it's not a huge deal to find out. Might be worth it.

Medium avatar
5629 · August 24, 2011 at 9:29 PM

Ticks aren't gonna attach themselves to your bare feet. If anything they get to you from loose shirts, your hair, pants pockets, etc.

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25467 · August 24, 2011 at 8:53 PM

some is.....no doubt. But the condition is real

Cd3f369934d5449d804b0a248914439b
35 · August 24, 2011 at 8:44 PM

just checking.. I knew nothing about it before I started researching. Some stuff I have run across online claims it to be quackery.

Cd3f369934d5449d804b0a248914439b
35 · August 24, 2011 at 8:43 PM

no, i haven't been tested for lyme disease. i know little to nothing about it. would that go on for 5 years like this? my symptoms have come and gone for that long. this year they have been worse than ever before.

Cd3f369934d5449d804b0a248914439b
35 · August 24, 2011 at 8:41 PM

What supplements did you take? And how long did it take you to get better? I was eating a lot of plain yogurt, but cut it out when I went dairy free about a week and a half ago.

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3631 · August 25, 2011 at 1:59 AM

It's real. I used to be confused about it too. It's helpful to know that it's also called intestinal permeability, gut permeability, or gut/intestinal barrier dysfunction.

Here is a description (from here):

Intestinal Permeability references the integrity of the mucosal layer of the digestive tract that prevent bacteria, antigens, and undigested food proteins from seeping through the GI barrier and into the systemic circulation.

Increased permeability can result in a chronically over reactive immune system in constant battle with toxins and allergens normally kept at bay. The small intestine has the paradoxical dual function of being a digestive/ absorptive organ as well as a barrier to permeation of toxic compounds and macromolecules.

Either one of these functions may be disrupted by various mechanisms, resulting in local as well as systemic problems.

The distal intestine contains a number of dietary and bacterial products with toxic properties. Dysfunction of the immune or mechanical barriers leads to increased uptake of inflammatory macromolecules and pathogenic bacteria.

If the intestine is not functioning properly, the amount of normally excluded substances that are absorbed through the mucosal lining increases dramatically. Intestinal inflammation promotes the uptake and systemic distribution of potentially harmful macromolecules. Increased intestinal permeability of the mucosal barrier, also known as leaky gut syndrome, appears to correlate with a number of disorders, while decreased permeability appears as a fundamental cause of malnutrition, malabsorption and failure to thrive.

Increased Intestinal Permeability or Leaky Gut Syndrome is seen in disorders such as:

  • Inflammatory bowel disease
  • Crohn's disease
  • Inflammatory joint disease
  • Food allergy
  • Celiac disease
  • Rheumatoid arthritis
  • Ankylosing spondylitis
  • Reiter's syndrome
  • Chronic dermatological conditions
  • Schizophrenia
  • Allergic disorders

here's more about how it works:

http://www.nleducation.co.uk/resources/reviews/leaky-gut-food-reactivity-whats-the-mechanism/#_ftn1

I don't really have diet advice, as i struggle with some of the same things you do. I think a GAPS trial is worthwhile; but I haven't been able to do it yet.

Glutamine and bone broths are protective and healing. Both are recommended by everyone who knows anything. I do both, rather irregularly.

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628
3631 · August 25, 2011 at 2:22 AM

i can't figure out how to use the quote function...

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628
3631 · August 25, 2011 at 2:40 PM

I think gut flora mediates intestinal barrier function. It's something science is only beginning to explore seriously.

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628
3631 · August 25, 2011 at 2:38 PM

Those paticular antifungals are pretty benign, so if you feel better with them, go for it. i'm not totally sure they are helpful tho, and garlic caps might be useless (?) but if they work for you DO IT! IMO, best to avoid the antifungals that are also strongly antibacterial e.g. GSE b/c you want to keep the population of good gut flora strong (i think i screwed this up). "Candida" such as it is known, is a slippery idea.. Of course organism candida albicans is real, but whether it manifests as you might be thinking may be questionable. I continue to consider it, however. (cont below)

Cd3f369934d5449d804b0a248914439b
35 · August 25, 2011 at 1:37 PM

Thanks, great info there. I just started reading The Paleo Solution, seems to be a lot in there also, so I'm learning. Looking into the GAPS thing also. Is Candida directly related to leaky gut? I previously thought that Candida might be my problem, so I was on the Candida diet and taking various antifungals (coconut oil, apple cider vinegar, garlic capsules, etc.) for a while. Just wondering if I should continue with the antifungals or not.

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628
3631 · August 25, 2011 at 2:38 PM

I have come to suspect that in some cases, leaky gut is being called candida by frustrated, less informed people that have taken their health into their own hands. (like me, and maybe you). I don't have a doctor, but i know they aren't looking for intestinal permeability when treating the disparate problems, large or small, that can manifest from leaky gut (e.g. a rash). I'm pretty much of the mind that many common diseases begin in the gut, correlating strongly to the state of gut flora. A candida overgrowth is possible, of course, but it's not the only thing that can go wrong. (cont below)

2870a69b9c0c0a19a919e54cb3a62137
1515 · August 25, 2011 at 8:29 PM

Do you think gelatin can be supplemented instead of bone broth?

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628
3631 · August 25, 2011 at 2:38 PM

I think healthy gut flora mediates intestinal permeability. It's something science is just beginning to explore seriously.

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628
3631 · August 26, 2011 at 4:22 AM

i've been wondering the same thing, and have begun including gelatin occasionally. I'd MUCH rather drink broth, but it's kind of a p.i.t.a.. and tho i know ppl keep saying they get bones for free -- 'round here grass-fed bones cost $3+/lb. for BONES. I'm not cheap, but i *am* broke, and food i can chew has become a priority.

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628
3631 · August 30, 2011 at 12:26 AM

i don't know, i wonder the same thing. gelatin is quite processed/refined, so bone broth probably has many ineffable as well as quantifiable betternesses, as a whole-r food.

B3e7d1ab5aeb329fe24cca1de1a0b09c
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5242 · August 25, 2011 at 5:45 AM

Personally I'd recommend the GAPS diet. Buy the book, study it, try it. Anecdotally it appears to have worked for many people with very poor gut health and eventually restore their health.

This is a very interesting podcast by Underground Wellness with author of the GAPS diet, Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride.

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258 · August 24, 2011 at 8:38 PM

Dr. Cowan in SF Bay area helped heal my issues(similar to yours) through diet, supplements, and fermented foods. Am 100% better.

Cd3f369934d5449d804b0a248914439b
35 · August 24, 2011 at 8:41 PM

What supplements did you take? And how long did it take you to get better? I was eating a lot of plain yogurt, but cut it out when I went dairy free about a week and a half ago.

F6440d0e563ae7df946f37e3bbfc7c9e
40 · August 25, 2011 at 2:35 AM

What type of doctor is Dr. Cowan? I have some similar issues and I'm not sure which doctor to go to. I've been to a few that haven't been helpful.

3f11b5fda91063846bba45daac3541bd
1186 · September 08, 2011 at 1:30 PM

he's an anthroposophic MD-- wrote "Fourfold Path to Healing" which is co-written with Sally Fallon of WAPF.

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4080 · August 25, 2011 at 10:55 PM

See this video, a speech by Loren Cordain, on leaky gut, although its geared towards those with MS, it HIGHLY pertains to anyone with leaky gut. Its a 7 part series. He has some interesting new ideas, that are different from much of what I found on leaky gut during my search to fix my own leaky gut. Its very very interesting. I highly recommend watching.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
25467 · August 30, 2011 at 1:56 AM

http://jackkruse.com/where-autoimmunity-cancer-and-disease-collide/

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30 · August 24, 2011 at 9:24 PM

Yes. It's real! Read Robb Wolf's The Paleo Solution. He goes into detail about it. Great book for all things paleo!!

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
2
25467 · August 24, 2011 at 8:26 PM

Ah......yeah its real.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
25467 · August 24, 2011 at 8:53 PM

some is.....no doubt. But the condition is real

Cd3f369934d5449d804b0a248914439b
35 · August 24, 2011 at 8:44 PM

just checking.. I knew nothing about it before I started researching. Some stuff I have run across online claims it to be quackery.

669790861549f3c6d54d88a65296ed19
1
452 · August 24, 2011 at 8:32 PM

It can never hurt to take some extra measurements to restore your gut:)

Also....have you been properly tested for Lyme Disease?which frequently goes under the radar (my own experience) while having lots of weird symptoms,pain,fatigue,food intolerances etc. That's why I'm personally not crazy about the 'go-barefoot' thing which is being so praised in the Paleoscene.

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1773 · August 25, 2011 at 3:42 PM

Saying "no matter where on your body, you rarely feel ticks crawling around" doesn't exactly refute anything I said. The point is that having no shoes will make that rarity much more common, and even if it doesn't, it's not like there's any way it's gonna make getting a tick more likely.

6f2c00fcbf48c69f0ea212239b3e1178
1773 · August 24, 2011 at 9:44 PM

Actually being barefoot would most likely drastically lower the chances of getting a tick because you would notice it right away as it starts crawling on your foot, and even if you didn't it having no shoes on would certainly make it no MORE likely that one would attach...

4145b36f1488224964edac6258b75aff
7821 · August 24, 2011 at 9:37 PM

Lyme's would probably have caused neurological symptoms by now if left untreated, but broadly yes: random joint pain is a feature of Lyme's. It's a blood test (no idea how much it costs) so it's not a huge deal to find out. Might be worth it.

Cd3f369934d5449d804b0a248914439b
35 · August 24, 2011 at 8:43 PM

no, i haven't been tested for lyme disease. i know little to nothing about it. would that go on for 5 years like this? my symptoms have come and gone for that long. this year they have been worse than ever before.

Medium avatar
5629 · August 24, 2011 at 9:29 PM

Ticks aren't gonna attach themselves to your bare feet. If anything they get to you from loose shirts, your hair, pants pockets, etc.

6f2c00fcbf48c69f0ea212239b3e1178
1773 · August 25, 2011 at 3:45 PM

Maybe I should switch gears and simply ask, "What on earth do you think would make it more likely to get a tick if you're barefoot?" I don't get it. It seems like some sort of emotional reaction or something, like you find thinking about a tick on your skin as being disgusting or something, but you're not thinking hard enough to realize that what ACTUALLY matters (whether it attaches) would be much LESS likely if the tick has to crawl on your foot rather than a senseless shoe.

6f2c00fcbf48c69f0ea212239b3e1178
1773 · August 24, 2011 at 9:44 PM

Actually being barefoot would most likely drastically lower the chances of getting a tick because you would notice it right away as it starts crawling on your foot, and even if you didn't, having no shoes on would certainly make it no MORE likely that one would attach...

669790861549f3c6d54d88a65296ed19
452 · August 25, 2011 at 5:33 PM

Ticks hide in grass,so for them to drop on your bare feet and attach itself is easier instead of when walking with shoes through grass with socks over the pants. Anyway it seems like you think I'm telling you not to walk barefoot,which I'm not.Honestly go for it,I really don't care,I just wanted to mention it as a shadowside which never gets highlighted as something one should look out for or at least keep in

6f2c00fcbf48c69f0ea212239b3e1178
1773 · August 25, 2011 at 11:53 PM

I see what you mean. I was imagining you in shorts and a t-shirt all worried about being barefoot rather than wearing a pair of shoes. In THAT situation, you'd most certainly be at best BETTER off barefoot or at worst NO WORSE off. But if you're talking about a situation where you're wearing pants and could choose to wear shoes with the socks over the pants or no shoes at all, OF COURSE the shoes with the socks etc would be more protective.

669790861549f3c6d54d88a65296ed19
452 · August 25, 2011 at 5:32 PM

Ticks hide in grass,so for them to drop on your bare feet and attach itself is easier when walking with shoes through grass with socks over the pants. Anyway it seems like you think I'm telling you not to walk barefoot,which I'm not.Honestly go for it,I really don't care,I just wanted to mention it as a shadowside which never gets highlighted as something one should look out for or at least keep in mind.

6f2c00fcbf48c69f0ea212239b3e1178
1773 · August 25, 2011 at 3:41 PM

Well then you're simply being dogmatic. We already explained why being barefoot would not only not make it MORE likely for a tick to attach, but would most likely actually make it LESS likely.

6f2c00fcbf48c69f0ea212239b3e1178
1773 · August 24, 2011 at 9:47 PM

Ticks tend to crawl around for 10+ minutes before attaching. If you're imagining that having no shoes on would make it so a tick would get on you an attach immediately, that's not how it works; the tick would start crawling on your foot, you'd either notice or not, and then it would go up and around your body for up to like 30 minutes. Bottom line, being barefoot would actually make you much more likely to notice the tick and then flick him off then wearing shoes that confer you no sensation of the tick crawling around, might have places for it to hide, might be camo for it, etc.

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452 · August 25, 2011 at 1:38 PM

pfw It's not always neurological problems,that really depends on the type of Borrelia strain you have and other co-infections. maxpower...if you want to get tested properly then make sure you do varies bloodtests like ELISA,Blottest,PCR and take those outcomes to a LLMD so he/she can read &puzzle the outcomes together properly. Next to cancer it's the 2nd highest rated disease,yet while being underrated&misdiagnosed. No matter where on your body,you rarely feel ticks crawling around. Anyway,it's up to anyone to decide what to do,it's just that I wouldn't go barefoot ever,espacially in grass.

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1773 · August 25, 2011 at 11:59 PM

Bottom line, if you're outside in a pair of shorts, and you're wearing shoes (rather than going barefoot) simply because of the tick issue, you're overextending you're reasoning and my counter-arguments apply. I see why wearing shoes with pants (as long as the socks are over the pants) would be safer than wearing no shoes with pants, but of course this by no means applies to when you're wearing SHORTS.

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1773 · August 26, 2011 at 12:01 AM

Bottom line, if you're outside in a pair of shorts, and you're wearing shoes (rather than going barefoot) simply because of the tick issue, you're overextending your reasoning, and my counter-arguments apply (i.e., you're wrong and being irrational). I see why wearing shoes with pants (as long as the socks are over the pants) would be safer than wearing no shoes with pants, but of course this by no means applies to when you're wearing SHORTS.

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1773 · August 25, 2011 at 11:51 PM

I'm most certainly not responding as if you were telling me not to walk barefoot. Nothing in any of my responses implied that you cared or didn't want me to "go for it".

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1773 · August 25, 2011 at 11:55 PM

So as usual, this argument has been revealed as a simple miscommunication. I thought you were arguing that it would be worse to be barefoot WHILE WEARING SHORTS (which I still disagree with), whereas you were actually arguing something quite different, i.e. that it would be worse to be barefoot WHILE WEARING PANTS, *ASSUMING YOU PUT YOUR SOCKS OVER YOUR PANT LEGS*.

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1773 · August 26, 2011 at 12:03 AM

Of course though honestly I don't really care what you do; go for it. I just wanted to point out a few things. LOL JK!! I guess I'm supposed to not care though, because that would be the "cool" way to be. Can't be too over-interested or enthusiastic... no, can't have that.

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1773 · August 25, 2011 at 11:57 PM

This brings us to the simple point though that sometimes it's super hot outside and you wouldn't want to be wearing pants. If you're so scared of ticks that you'd wear pants even in humid 90 degree weather (or not even go out at all), then... uh yeah. But if you're willing to forgo the pants/socks thing and simply wear shorts when it's that hot, then there's no reason to be scared of also being barefoot.

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