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Why is my husband's stomach so sensitive to day old meats?

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Updated about 17 hours ago
Created January 16, 2014 at 10:31 PM

I have been looking for a solution, but I can't find anything online to help him. If I defrost some meat and then decide I don't want to cook it yet and refreeze it, when I defrost it again and cook it, it makes him sick. Same with defrosting meat and leaving it in the refrigerator for a day and cook it the next day. It's ridiculous that I can only feed him extra fresh meat. Also, he cannot eat leftover meat at all, no matter how new or how well it is cooked. He'll be sick for days. Once he's sick, he gets dizzy headaches and stomach pain and diarrhea for days. Once it lasted a whole week....he is totally miserable. I try to be careful, but sometimes I accidently leave meat in the fridge for longer than a day! What can I do to help him?

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2626 · January 19, 2014 at 1:46 AM

That can't explain getting sick sometimes and not others, based on the age of the meat when he doesn't know about it (unless there are other cues that tell him the age of the meat, e.g., something about the smell or texture).

Medium avatar
198 · January 18, 2014 at 6:05 AM

Kresser says "

  • Leftover meat (After meat is cooked, the histamine levels increase due to microbial action as the meat sits)"

Don't microbes act on all sorts of foods, not just cooked meats? In fact he references an article that states all the things you can't eat due to histamines. OP doesn't mention any of those foods. I'm skeptical, but open minded on the issue.

btw - I don't have much regard for Kresser.

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0 · January 18, 2014 at 1:26 AM

Those are tiny amounts and less than the regulations say manufacturers need to be able to market it gluten-free. This is why I think the human body is much more sensitive at detecting substances than any measuring device that exists currently. Hopefully that changes in the coming decades. It would be extremely helpful a huge amount of areas to have very sensitive measuring devices.

61aeb8053e7ecf7259dc7e24d25b1263
0 · January 18, 2014 at 1:25 AM

I guess what I'm saying is that I there is another reason you can't eat cartoned egg products. A reason that has to do with how your digestive system reacts to it when you eat it. The substance in the cartoned egg product may not be exactly the same down to the molecular level. There may be no measuring device that currently can detect those differences. But that doesn't mean they are not there. Another example is people with Celiac's disease. They react to gluten in concentrations less than 20 parts per million.

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41432 · January 18, 2014 at 1:06 AM

Psychosomatic effects are real things. Essentially placebo/nocebo effects. I cannot stand the thought of eating cartoned egg products. So much so that I cannot eat eggs unless I observe them cooked. Not that I eat eggs like this anymore, but if I did, it would cause a very real physical effect.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46
41432 · January 18, 2014 at 1:00 AM

Pointing to psychosomatic or food handling issues… I had a bad experience with cafeteria eggs once, and I've not bee able to eat eggs from cartons since. I however know it's completely in my head, but my bowels do not know that. I have to wonder if you had a bad experience with meat that it wouldn't follow you for a while.

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1137 · January 18, 2014 at 12:47 AM

if you have ever worked in a restaurant, you know that day old meat is the norm there, unless it is a really high end restaurant.

Medium avatar
598 · January 17, 2014 at 10:25 PM

If you've got him on a paleo type diet, you're well on the way to curing his leaky gut. Just do some research and learn about some of the silver bullets for leaky gut, such as bone broth. Chances are your doctor won't be much help in this case, but you never know.

F21fad163e44910387f4bf06df91d31b
0 · January 17, 2014 at 7:20 PM

Thanks. I will do that. The problem is just with my husband though. There are 4 of us at home and he's the only one who gets sick. I think I will make him an appointment with a doctor. It might be an allergy of some kind. Either way, I need to know what i can feed him without him getting sick! It's getting worse as he gets older...

F21fad163e44910387f4bf06df91d31b
0 · January 17, 2014 at 7:17 PM

Thanks, I have looked up the symptoms and they all point to leaky gut, which i had never heard of until now. I guess the next step is to go see a doctor.

F21fad163e44910387f4bf06df91d31b
0 · January 17, 2014 at 7:15 PM

No, maybe he should go see one. The thing is, he has always had loose stool so it's hard to pinpoint when it started. I guess he should go to a doctor... thank you

F21fad163e44910387f4bf06df91d31b
0 · January 17, 2014 at 7:14 PM

Thank you, I will look that up...

F21fad163e44910387f4bf06df91d31b
0 · January 17, 2014 at 7:12 PM

I won't tell him about the meat at all and he still gets sick. He rarely gets sick when we eat out.

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41432 · January 17, 2014 at 6:14 PM

I agree that food handling may be an issue here, though I would expect problems would be with multiple people and inconsistent if it was food handling (bad samples don't happen every time, but if they do, multiple people should get sick).

Medium avatar
198 · January 17, 2014 at 5:52 PM

  • In general, refrigeration or freezing prevents virtually all bacteria from growing but generally preserves them in a state of suspended animation. This general rule has a few surprising exceptions.

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26182 · January 17, 2014 at 4:17 PM

agree with @samc If you defrost and refreeze you need to refreeze for 5-7 days to kill off the bacteria. This is typically not a good idea. Also if food left in your fridge for a day is causing him problems I would wonder about (1) Fridge Temp; (2) What type of mold you got growing.

My advise: (1)Clean the fridge with bleach, (2)clean your kitchen/counters with anti-bacterial solution. (3) Consider cleaning the air in your house. (4) Lower the temp in your fridge.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb
4393 · January 17, 2014 at 4:20 AM

'old' meat makes me think of tyramine & histamine, don't know if his symptoms point to either or both of these, but may be worth looking into

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61aeb8053e7ecf7259dc7e24d25b1263
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0 · January 18, 2014 at 12:26 AM

This happens to me as well. And I just want to say "psychosomatic" is bullshit. No offense to anyone who suggested that. But that's what I think of that concept. Psychosomatic is a term used when science has no idea what is going on likely because the processes are too complex and subtle to measure. I didn't think I would hear that on this site. It's like telling someone who is depressed to just get happier. In the depression example some people are more prone to depression than others because of many physical differences in how their body and brain is made up. We still have so much to learn about the human body.

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41432 · January 18, 2014 at 1:06 AM

Psychosomatic effects are real things. Essentially placebo/nocebo effects. I cannot stand the thought of eating cartoned egg products. So much so that I cannot eat eggs unless I observe them cooked. Not that I eat eggs like this anymore, but if I did, it would cause a very real physical effect.

Medium avatar
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198 · January 17, 2014 at 5:52 AM

Matt11 said "It's psychosomatic." - I have to agree.

When you go to the store and buy "fresh" meat, what exactly do you think happens? They don't kill the cow out back and rush it into the store and package it for you. That meat could have been killed days/weeks/months before and kept near freezing or frozen and defrosted. Some of the higher quality stores will have purchased aged beef or dry or wet age the beef before sale.

btw - defrosting and refreezing meat is not good from a taste, texture and more importantly a bacterial standpoint. By defrosting you give the bacteria a chance to grow exponentially and then you freeze it again with more bacteria present than the first time. Then you defrost again and those little guys grow more.

Buy yourself a refrigerator thermometer and check the temps - maybe you are not cold enough and you are introducing the problem!!!!!

F21fad163e44910387f4bf06df91d31b
0 · January 17, 2014 at 7:20 PM

Thanks. I will do that. The problem is just with my husband though. There are 4 of us at home and he's the only one who gets sick. I think I will make him an appointment with a doctor. It might be an allergy of some kind. Either way, I need to know what i can feed him without him getting sick! It's getting worse as he gets older...

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46
41432 · January 17, 2014 at 6:14 PM

I agree that food handling may be an issue here, though I would expect problems would be with multiple people and inconsistent if it was food handling (bad samples don't happen every time, but if they do, multiple people should get sick).

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7
26182 · January 17, 2014 at 4:17 PM

agree with @samc If you defrost and refreeze you need to refreeze for 5-7 days to kill off the bacteria. This is typically not a good idea. Also if food left in your fridge for a day is causing him problems I would wonder about (1) Fridge Temp; (2) What type of mold you got growing.

My advise: (1)Clean the fridge with bleach, (2)clean your kitchen/counters with anti-bacterial solution. (3) Consider cleaning the air in your house. (4) Lower the temp in your fridge.

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0 · January 17, 2014 at 4:44 AM

Oh and if he is sensitive to histamine - please do not give him kefir, kombucha or kraut! It may make it drastically worse for some time.

F21fad163e44910387f4bf06df91d31b
0 · January 17, 2014 at 7:14 PM

Thank you, I will look that up...

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0 · January 17, 2014 at 4:43 AM

It may not be psychosomatic. I am extremely sensitive to foods high in histamine (including leftover meats), and I must cook and consume my meat in the same day. This began occurring around the same time as my Crohn's initially flared along w/ typical leaky gut symptoms. I have eaten food others have made me and had reactions and later found out they were serving me leftovers, so it's not necessarily "In one's head". My symptoms aren't the same as your husband's (I get headaches, fatigue and angioedema). Do a little research on histamine intolerance. Kresser is an excellent source.

Medium avatar
198 · January 18, 2014 at 6:05 AM

Kresser says "

  • Leftover meat (After meat is cooked, the histamine levels increase due to microbial action as the meat sits)"

Don't microbes act on all sorts of foods, not just cooked meats? In fact he references an article that states all the things you can't eat due to histamines. OP doesn't mention any of those foods. I'm skeptical, but open minded on the issue.

btw - I don't have much regard for Kresser.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46
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41432 · January 17, 2014 at 12:55 AM

It's psychosomatic. My advice? Lie to him. Tell him the you just thawed out the meat today. Tell him leftovers are newly made.

Does he get sick eating out?

F21fad163e44910387f4bf06df91d31b
0 · January 17, 2014 at 7:12 PM

I won't tell him about the meat at all and he still gets sick. He rarely gets sick when we eat out.

Medium avatar
0
598 · January 17, 2014 at 12:04 AM

Do you guys do much in the way of fermented foods or probiotics? If it's making him sick it's probably either from toxins or bacteria. The small quantities of relatively benign bacteria typically found in day old meat don't bother most people because the gut is filled with competition and pretty inhospitable. The competition is key for some. Give him some kefir, krauts, and komboocha for a few weeks and see if that helps if this is the case.

Then again, if he's getting sick from it right after thoroughly cooking, it's probably toxins. Those, again, are typically in such small quantities and so benign that they don't bother people. In this case I would have him looked at by a doctor. just don't know what would cause severe sensitivity to mild toxins other than liver and/or kidney damage or possibly an extremely leaky gut.

Lastly, there's an ever so slight chance he's got an allergy to something produced by the bacteria that set in quickly to fresh meat and don't bother most of us. This would be pretty unusual but it would make sense. Not sure there's anything to be done in this case but it, too, might have to do with leaky gut.

I'm logical, yes, but I'm also just answering because I like to answer these puzzles. I've never actually heard of this particular condition.

F21fad163e44910387f4bf06df91d31b
0 · January 17, 2014 at 7:17 PM

Thanks, I have looked up the symptoms and they all point to leaky gut, which i had never heard of until now. I guess the next step is to go see a doctor.

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459 · January 16, 2014 at 11:03 PM

That's definitely not normal, has he gone to the doctor about this? If he hasn't been to the doctor, you might want to start by getting him to a good gastroenterologist that has a decent amount of experience. Digestive issues are very complex and could sometimes be caused by factors that may be unknown to you. Try to rule out any serious issues first.

F21fad163e44910387f4bf06df91d31b
0 · January 17, 2014 at 7:15 PM

No, maybe he should go see one. The thing is, he has always had loose stool so it's hard to pinpoint when it started. I guess he should go to a doctor... thank you

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