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Any Experience with blood ketone meters?

by (2043)
Updated about 21 hours ago
Created May 18, 2012 at 3:29 PM

I have never been able to change a keto stick so I decided to get a blood ketone meter and see how that would work. Does anyone know what reading would indicate ketosis?
The product insert is geared more towards "Danger diabetic! Get yourself to a hospital!" vs. "nah, you're ok". If anyone has any non diabetic experience with one of these devices I'd appreciate any thoughts you might have.

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0 · March 14, 2014 at 5:29 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if you have skin in the game with that site, but for anyone else out there reading this, *beware the shipping costs at ketosistools.com* - if you order 10 packs, it's not going to be worth it.

A 50-pack is $75 + $20 shipping (yup - takes 7-10 days to ship too), so you'd end up paying $1.89 per strip. You can get it down to $1.75ish by buying multiple 50-packs (first one is $20 to ship, additional ones $5 ea.)

Still a good deal, assuming they're reputable and you actually get the strips and they're not expired.

810ebd903fd54ff6666646547dfb269d
0 · October 28, 2013 at 5:08 AM

Yeah, good points.. It's great how this community is growing!!

Just letting you guys know I've found the cheapest Keto Strips online.. I get the most accurate readings of my level of Ketosis with the Keto Meter and strips... Only $1.59 / strip! www.ketosistools.com I've bought from there and they seem great to deal with...

Alex

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78417 · July 17, 2012 at 11:05 PM

Didn't Jimmy actually discover this new means of testing himself? The guy's an all-around Renaissance man-genius, if you ask me.

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4873 · June 18, 2012 at 12:09 PM

Blood ketones don't necessarily indicate loss of body fat. The body creates ketones when (1) you don't eat food from which it can make glucose or (2) you do eat food that contains ketogenic substances. You can gain body fat when these things happen. Suppose, for example, you ate 10,000 calories per day of coconut oil. Your blood would be loaded with ketones but you would get fatter. Ketosis is associated with fat loss not because it necessarily indicates fat loss but because (1) it usually suppresses appetite and (2) hypocaloric diets often lack glucose substrate.

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90 · June 18, 2012 at 3:05 AM

@RobS. I am having trouble wrapping my mind around this basic question :Assuming all things being equal, would a person with higher ketone levels be burning body fat more abundantly/quickly/rapidly/efficiently than a person whos levels are not so high? Forgive me if this is the wrong place to ask this.

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355 · May 23, 2012 at 4:02 AM

@RobS @borofergie When do you test, post-meal or fasting?

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11478 · May 22, 2012 at 9:15 PM

@RobS I followed you advice and for the past three days my blood ketones have been 1 to 1.5 mmol/l, which is almost exactly where I wanted to be. Thanks for the help!

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4873 · May 19, 2012 at 9:56 PM

(...continued) When I started eating this way, I would put meat in a bowl of melted tallow and eat it like soup. Eventually I got so used to eating fat that I would sprinkle spices on tallow and eat it with a spoon like mashed potatoes. If you eat dairy, egg nog is a nice desert (heavy cream, egg yolk, vanilla). You can buy different kinds of beef fat and cook it and render it in different ways (soft body fat, suet, and fat attached to the skin).

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4873 · May 19, 2012 at 9:47 PM

Sounds like your body is creating a desire for protein because it needs more protein for structural reasons. If so, you should eat more of it. 0.8 g/kg is just an estimate of the body's minimal needs. Maybe you need more. You can't satisfy that kind of craving by eating fat. If you try, you'll just keep eating forever without ever satisfying the craving. You might want to increase protein to 1.0 or 1.2 g/kg and see if your appetite declines. (Continued....)

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4873 · May 19, 2012 at 9:43 PM

Sounds like your body is creating a desire for protein because it needs more protein for structural reasons. If so, you should eat more of it. 0.8 g/kg is just an estimate. You can't satisfy that kind of craving by eating fat... if you try, you'll just keep eating forever. As for eating fat straight, yep, same here. I sprinkle spices on tallow and eat it with a spoon like mashed potatoes. Whatever you eat, if its nutritious, the body develops a taste for it -- food reward. Egg nog is good for dessert (cream, egg yolks, vanilla). I eat everything in a pool of melted tallow or butter.

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2043 · May 19, 2012 at 8:53 PM

I rarely crave carbs but I do crave high protein foods like beef and eggs. How do you keep your fat level so high? I find myself eating butter and coconut oil straight with a couple egg yolks and the odd ounce of cheese here and there.

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4873 · May 19, 2012 at 7:56 PM

On that diet you should be at a very high level of ketosis. Are you mainly craving carbs? The body keeps changing for weeks (and maybe even months) as ketosis is maintained (as you can see from the graph above), so maybe you have to wait longer to see a change in appetite. If you're impatient you could make the diet even more ketogenic. For example, keep the amount of protein constant and get the remainder of calories entirely from fat (zero carbs).

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4873 · May 19, 2012 at 7:50 PM

On that diet you should be at a pretty high level of ketosis. The effects of ketosis develop over weeks and maybe even months, so I guess it's possible that you may see a change in appetite if you wait longer. What number is the ketone meter telling you? If you're impatient you could try a more extreme ketogenic diet (e.g. keep protein constant, remainder of calories as fat, zero carbs).

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2043 · May 19, 2012 at 7:14 PM

Yup, that's the ratio I have been using, 4:1 fats to protein+carbs. I have been using 0.36 x my weight in pounds, which works out the same as 0.8 x weight in kgs. Maybe I just need to give it a bit more time?

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4873 · May 19, 2012 at 7:08 PM

Juju, ketosis tends to suppress appetite. I agree, higher ketosis might stop your hunger. If I were in your shoes I'd temporarily switch over to a 4:1 clinical ketogenic diet. Try it for a week or two. If appetite shrinks, you could relax the ratio a bit until appetite begins to come back. A 4:1 diet is 0.8 grams protein per kilogram body weight; remainder of calories fat and carbs; adjust ratio of fat and carbs so the entire diet (in grams) satisifies the equation fat = 4 x ( carbs + protein). In case that's not clear, tell us your weight and calorie requirements and I'll show you the math.

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4873 · May 19, 2012 at 7:02 PM

Juju, ketosis tends to suppress appetite. I agree, higher ketosis might stop your hunger. If I were in your shoes I'd temporarily switch over to a 4:1 clinical ketogenic diet. Try it for a week or two. If appetite shrinks, you could relax the ratio a bit until appetite begins to come back. A 4:1 diet is 0.8 grams protein per kilogram body weight; remainder of calories fat and carbs; adjust ratio of fat and carbs so the entire diet (in grams) satisifies the equation fat = 4 x ( carbs + protein).

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4873 · May 19, 2012 at 6:48 PM

Borofergie, if you're happy with your glucose you could just add more fat for calories as your distance increases. If you want to get a little fancier, you could increase amounts of all three macronutrients but keep the "ketogenic ratio" constant. Simplified version: (g pro + g carb) / (g fat). I wonder if your glucose would be even better at higher levels of ketosis. In non-diabetics, the higher the ketones, the lower the glucose. Unfortunately, extreme high ketosis, long term, isn't healthy. There's probably a sweet spot, an optimum level of ketosis for you.

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2043 · May 19, 2012 at 5:56 PM

Trying to lose those last 5-10 without constantly being hungry.

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11478 · May 19, 2012 at 5:48 PM

In my case it's because I'm a T2 diabetic, I keep my carb intake below 30g because it gives me excellent blood glucose control (HbA1c=4.5%) However, I'm also a runner and as I increase my distance, I don't want to rely on carbohydrates for fuel.

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11478 · May 19, 2012 at 5:44 PM

That's all good, but by upping the carbs I meant exchanging some of the meat for vegetables (and therefore carbs) rather than eating big wedges of protein (which is whats denting my numbers).

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1528 · May 19, 2012 at 5:33 PM

Volek says that in his new book. Upping your carbs will move you towards less ketosis, not more, unless you happen to be running an ultramarathon at the same time. If you can't get in the 1.25-2.0 range on <20g, then you need to adjust your protein % down to about 18. Replace w/fat. If that still doesn't work, you need to eat <2000 cal. At <2000 cal, 18% protein (maybe 15 for less active women), and <20g carb, you should get there in a couple of weeks. If not, up the exercise. Volek like boulder-pushing, but any lifting should do. Also add coconut/MCTs to your diet, as much as possible. :)

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4873 · May 19, 2012 at 4:59 PM

Ketosis is a matter of degree. There's no line you cross where you're "out" on one side and "in" on the other. Right now you're at some level of ketosis. If you eat less carbs and protein, your ketosis will be higher. If you eat more, it will be lower. Do you mind if I ask why do you want to be in higher ketosis? What are you trying to accomplish? High ketosis isn't healthy -- over long periods it tends to demineralize bone and cause kidney stones.

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4873 · May 19, 2012 at 4:57 PM

Ketosis is a matter of degree. There's no line you cross where you're "out" on one side and "in" on the other. Right now you're at some average level of ketosis. The less carbs and protein you eat, all other things beging equal, the higher your ketosis. Do you mind if I ask why do you want to be in higher ketosis? What's the purpose of it? High ketosis isn't healthy -- over long periods it tends to demineralize bone and cause kidney stones.

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4873 · May 19, 2012 at 4:41 PM

I'm trying to explain that there's no "into." It's a matter of degree. There's no line you cross where you're "out" on one side and "in" on the other. Right now you're at some average level of ketosis. If you want to get to a higher average level, eat less protein and carbs. The less of them you eat, the higher your ketosis. If for some special reason you want to be at an extremely high level (e.g. you have epilepsy), try a clinical ketogenic diet (e.g. 0.8 grams protein per kilogram body weight, 90% of calories as fat, remainder of calories as carbs).

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2043 · May 19, 2012 at 3:57 PM

Wow, thanks! I am wondering how high in fat and how low in protein/carbs I will need to go to get into ketosis. I am already at about 80~85% fat, 10% protein and 5% carbs. Total caloric intake is just about my calculated BMR.

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4873 · May 19, 2012 at 3:07 PM

Yep. After a while at 5 or 6 it starts to feel like a long term fast -- orthostatic hypotension, extreme lack of energy. There are visible effects too -- hairy tongue, deflated veins. High ketosis has harmful effects and in general I think it should be avoided, but there are a few circumstances where the benefits outweigh the harm: (1) To treat a disease (like my migraines) that doesn't respond to lower levels; (2) as a once-a-year prophylactic against cancer or to treat cancer; (3) to help lose excess body fat quickly (ketosis suppresses appetite).

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4873 · May 19, 2012 at 3:02 PM

Yep. Somewhere around 5 or 6 it starts to feel like a long term fast -- orthostatic hypotension, extreme lack of energy. There are visible symptoms too -- hairy tongue, deflated veins. High ketosis has harmful effects and in general I think it should be avoided, but there are a few circumstances where the benefits outweigh the harm: (1) To treat a disease (like my migraines) that doesn't respond to lower levels; (2) as a once-a-year prophylactic against cancer or to treat cancer; (3) to help lose excess body fat quickly (ketosis suppresses appetite).

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4873 · May 19, 2012 at 2:26 PM

You're right, I did that for about a year (with a few breaks), but nowadays I've found that a lower level works fine. I think the lowest level that gives the desired benefits is the best.

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11478 · May 19, 2012 at 2:21 PM

RobS, this is increbible. Aside from the benefit to your migranes, can you feel any physical difference when your ketones or at 5+? Could you "feel" your ketosis level without a meter (I have one, but I'd like to know if there is any benefit in pushing for higher levels).

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11478 · May 19, 2012 at 2:04 PM

@Wowza that's great work! Where does Volek say that he keeps at 2.0? I can't get near those levels at <20g. In fact I think I might be better off upping the carb value a bit, and laying off the protein, or eating even more fat (which is kinda tough with no dairy).

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1528 · May 19, 2012 at 1:00 AM

My first reading on the Precision was 1.1! W00t! Volek indicates that "optimal" ketosis for endurance athletes is between 1.25 to 2.5. He himself lives on <50 g total carbs a day to keep at 2.0. To avoid eating too much protein, try maybe keeping it at between 17-20% (depending on your body size) of your daily diet to start and experiment with your readings from there. If you're eating about about 18% protein, <50 g carbs should get you there. Those who are more active/taller can probably eat a little more at still make the optimal zone. Your reading will go up after exercise, and at night.

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2043 · May 18, 2012 at 10:53 PM

Three weeks. I usually do 1 day of HIT, 3 days of lifting and tons of walking.

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11478 · May 18, 2012 at 10:31 PM

How about some high intensity exercise to deplete your liver glycogen? How long have you been trying for?

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2043 · May 18, 2012 at 8:32 PM

I have a ketone meter that has been reading 0.1 to 0.3, I'm not using the keto stix because I have never been able to get them to turn. My carbs are below 30g per day, usually about 15 g. Not sure what else to do at this point.

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11478 · May 18, 2012 at 8:16 PM

You need to be careful not to eat too little, otherwise you'll start canabalising muscle for protein to fuel gluconeogenesis. You'd be much better off dropping the carbs below 30g. Just because you aren't "showing purple" on your ketostix, doesn't mean you aren't in ketosis.

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2043 · May 18, 2012 at 6:42 PM

I guess I am going to have to keep dropping the protein until it kicks in. I'm below 50g/day and below 15g of carbs. /scratching head/

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2297 · May 18, 2012 at 5:38 PM

I can attest to too much protein keeping you out of keto. I was eating 1.5g/lb body weight and never got close to keto - rather puzzled until I cut my protein to 1g/lb BW, and then went into keto.

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11478 · May 18, 2012 at 4:19 PM

Jimmy Moore's wife pulled a 1.5mmol/l first test! Mine was about 0.4mmol/l.

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11478 · May 18, 2012 at 4:11 PM

This is the one that I use: http://www.amazon.com/Precision-Xtra-Blood-Glucose-Meter/dp/B000N64MZA (it's also called the Optium Xceed in some territories). This is the other meter on the market: http://www.amazon.com/Nova-Max-Plus-Glucose-Monitoring/dp/B0050Z48IU Remember the cost of the meter is irrelevant, it's the cost of the ketone strips that is expensive ($3-$5 a test).

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11478 · May 18, 2012 at 4:08 PM

They suggest anything above 0.5mmol/l, but they can get as high as 1-2.5 in deep ketosis. I was eating 1g of protein per pound of lean body weight, which was enough to knock my ketone levels down to 0.1 - 0.3mmol/l. Cut the protein and now I'm up to 1mmol/l.

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2043 · May 18, 2012 at 3:59 PM

http://www.novacares.com/cwd/

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2043 · May 18, 2012 at 3:56 PM

I read that book as well. I'm just not sure what reading actually indicates ketosis. I have tried a 1:4 protein(g) to fat(g) ratio as suggested in the book "sweet potato power". The formula given says to use 0.36 g of protein per lb of body weight, which is less protein that I am used to eating.

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4873 · May 19, 2012 at 2:05 PM

If anyone has any non diabetic experience with one of these devices I'd appreciate any thoughts you might have.

I've used them for years and recommend them. Here's an article I wrote about one particular ketone meter, the Precision Xtra:

Precision Xtra on Ketocure.com

Does anyone know what reading would indicate ketosis?

Ketosis is a matter of degree. It's something that gets higher and lower. Home blood ketone meters measure one of the three ketones that the body uses as fuel, beta-hydroxybutyrate (??-OHB). As shown in the first graph below, in average people, ??-OHB can range from trace amounts to about 6 mmol/L. But the graph shows blood levels of ??-OHB. Home meters show plasma levels. A blood level of 6 is equivalent to a higher plasma level.

In my own case, over two years of testing, my plasma ??-OHB has ranged from 0.2 to 7.7. The 0.2 was on a normal (not ketogenic) diet. The 7.7 was on a 2000-calorie-per-day diet with 90% of calories from fat.

any-experience-with-blood-ketone-meters?

Source of first graph: Cahill, GF Jr. Fuel Metabolism in Starvation. Annual Review of Nutrition. 2006; 26: 1???22

810ebd903fd54ff6666646547dfb269d
0 · October 28, 2013 at 5:08 AM

Yeah, good points.. It's great how this community is growing!!

Just letting you guys know I've found the cheapest Keto Strips online.. I get the most accurate readings of my level of Ketosis with the Keto Meter and strips... Only $1.59 / strip! www.ketosistools.com I've bought from there and they seem great to deal with...

Alex

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4873 · June 18, 2012 at 12:09 PM

Blood ketones don't necessarily indicate loss of body fat. The body creates ketones when (1) you don't eat food from which it can make glucose or (2) you do eat food that contains ketogenic substances. You can gain body fat when these things happen. Suppose, for example, you ate 10,000 calories per day of coconut oil. Your blood would be loaded with ketones but you would get fatter. Ketosis is associated with fat loss not because it necessarily indicates fat loss but because (1) it usually suppresses appetite and (2) hypocaloric diets often lack glucose substrate.

Ed581d640256a4d2d9b25140df020843
90 · June 18, 2012 at 3:05 AM

@RobS. I am having trouble wrapping my mind around this basic question :Assuming all things being equal, would a person with higher ketone levels be burning body fat more abundantly/quickly/rapidly/efficiently than a person whos levels are not so high? Forgive me if this is the wrong place to ask this.

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355 · May 23, 2012 at 4:02 AM

@RobS @borofergie When do you test, post-meal or fasting?

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11478 · May 22, 2012 at 9:15 PM

@RobS I followed you advice and for the past three days my blood ketones have been 1 to 1.5 mmol/l, which is almost exactly where I wanted to be. Thanks for the help!

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4873 · May 19, 2012 at 9:56 PM

(...continued) When I started eating this way, I would put meat in a bowl of melted tallow and eat it like soup. Eventually I got so used to eating fat that I would sprinkle spices on tallow and eat it with a spoon like mashed potatoes. If you eat dairy, egg nog is a nice desert (heavy cream, egg yolk, vanilla). You can buy different kinds of beef fat and cook it and render it in different ways (soft body fat, suet, and fat attached to the skin).

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4873 · May 19, 2012 at 9:47 PM

Sounds like your body is creating a desire for protein because it needs more protein for structural reasons. If so, you should eat more of it. 0.8 g/kg is just an estimate of the body's minimal needs. Maybe you need more. You can't satisfy that kind of craving by eating fat. If you try, you'll just keep eating forever without ever satisfying the craving. You might want to increase protein to 1.0 or 1.2 g/kg and see if your appetite declines. (Continued....)

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4873 · May 19, 2012 at 9:43 PM

Sounds like your body is creating a desire for protein because it needs more protein for structural reasons. If so, you should eat more of it. 0.8 g/kg is just an estimate. You can't satisfy that kind of craving by eating fat... if you try, you'll just keep eating forever. As for eating fat straight, yep, same here. I sprinkle spices on tallow and eat it with a spoon like mashed potatoes. Whatever you eat, if its nutritious, the body develops a taste for it -- food reward. Egg nog is good for dessert (cream, egg yolks, vanilla). I eat everything in a pool of melted tallow or butter.

A3a4696c919e916ec971691559e9c942
2043 · May 19, 2012 at 8:53 PM

I rarely crave carbs but I do crave high protein foods like beef and eggs. How do you keep your fat level so high? I find myself eating butter and coconut oil straight with a couple egg yolks and the odd ounce of cheese here and there.

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4873 · May 19, 2012 at 7:56 PM

On that diet you should be at a very high level of ketosis. Are you mainly craving carbs? The body keeps changing for weeks (and maybe even months) as ketosis is maintained (as you can see from the graph above), so maybe you have to wait longer to see a change in appetite. If you're impatient you could make the diet even more ketogenic. For example, keep the amount of protein constant and get the remainder of calories entirely from fat (zero carbs).

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4873 · May 19, 2012 at 7:50 PM

On that diet you should be at a pretty high level of ketosis. The effects of ketosis develop over weeks and maybe even months, so I guess it's possible that you may see a change in appetite if you wait longer. What number is the ketone meter telling you? If you're impatient you could try a more extreme ketogenic diet (e.g. keep protein constant, remainder of calories as fat, zero carbs).

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2043 · May 19, 2012 at 7:14 PM

Yup, that's the ratio I have been using, 4:1 fats to protein+carbs. I have been using 0.36 x my weight in pounds, which works out the same as 0.8 x weight in kgs. Maybe I just need to give it a bit more time?

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4873 · May 19, 2012 at 7:08 PM

Juju, ketosis tends to suppress appetite. I agree, higher ketosis might stop your hunger. If I were in your shoes I'd temporarily switch over to a 4:1 clinical ketogenic diet. Try it for a week or two. If appetite shrinks, you could relax the ratio a bit until appetite begins to come back. A 4:1 diet is 0.8 grams protein per kilogram body weight; remainder of calories fat and carbs; adjust ratio of fat and carbs so the entire diet (in grams) satisifies the equation fat = 4 x ( carbs + protein). In case that's not clear, tell us your weight and calorie requirements and I'll show you the math.

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4873 · May 19, 2012 at 7:02 PM

Juju, ketosis tends to suppress appetite. I agree, higher ketosis might stop your hunger. If I were in your shoes I'd temporarily switch over to a 4:1 clinical ketogenic diet. Try it for a week or two. If appetite shrinks, you could relax the ratio a bit until appetite begins to come back. A 4:1 diet is 0.8 grams protein per kilogram body weight; remainder of calories fat and carbs; adjust ratio of fat and carbs so the entire diet (in grams) satisifies the equation fat = 4 x ( carbs + protein).

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4873 · May 19, 2012 at 6:48 PM

Borofergie, if you're happy with your glucose you could just add more fat for calories as your distance increases. If you want to get a little fancier, you could increase amounts of all three macronutrients but keep the "ketogenic ratio" constant. Simplified version: (g pro + g carb) / (g fat). I wonder if your glucose would be even better at higher levels of ketosis. In non-diabetics, the higher the ketones, the lower the glucose. Unfortunately, extreme high ketosis, long term, isn't healthy. There's probably a sweet spot, an optimum level of ketosis for you.

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2043 · May 19, 2012 at 5:56 PM

Trying to lose those last 5-10 without constantly being hungry.

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11478 · May 19, 2012 at 5:48 PM

In my case it's because I'm a T2 diabetic, I keep my carb intake below 30g because it gives me excellent blood glucose control (HbA1c=4.5%) However, I'm also a runner and as I increase my distance, I don't want to rely on carbohydrates for fuel.

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4873 · May 19, 2012 at 4:59 PM

Ketosis is a matter of degree. There's no line you cross where you're "out" on one side and "in" on the other. Right now you're at some level of ketosis. If you eat less carbs and protein, your ketosis will be higher. If you eat more, it will be lower. Do you mind if I ask why do you want to be in higher ketosis? What are you trying to accomplish? High ketosis isn't healthy -- over long periods it tends to demineralize bone and cause kidney stones.

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4873 · May 19, 2012 at 4:57 PM

Ketosis is a matter of degree. There's no line you cross where you're "out" on one side and "in" on the other. Right now you're at some average level of ketosis. The less carbs and protein you eat, all other things beging equal, the higher your ketosis. Do you mind if I ask why do you want to be in higher ketosis? What's the purpose of it? High ketosis isn't healthy -- over long periods it tends to demineralize bone and cause kidney stones.

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4873 · May 19, 2012 at 4:41 PM

I'm trying to explain that there's no "into." It's a matter of degree. There's no line you cross where you're "out" on one side and "in" on the other. Right now you're at some average level of ketosis. If you want to get to a higher average level, eat less protein and carbs. The less of them you eat, the higher your ketosis. If for some special reason you want to be at an extremely high level (e.g. you have epilepsy), try a clinical ketogenic diet (e.g. 0.8 grams protein per kilogram body weight, 90% of calories as fat, remainder of calories as carbs).

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2043 · May 19, 2012 at 3:57 PM

Wow, thanks! I am wondering how high in fat and how low in protein/carbs I will need to go to get into ketosis. I am already at about 80~85% fat, 10% protein and 5% carbs. Total caloric intake is just about my calculated BMR.

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4873 · May 19, 2012 at 3:07 PM

Yep. After a while at 5 or 6 it starts to feel like a long term fast -- orthostatic hypotension, extreme lack of energy. There are visible effects too -- hairy tongue, deflated veins. High ketosis has harmful effects and in general I think it should be avoided, but there are a few circumstances where the benefits outweigh the harm: (1) To treat a disease (like my migraines) that doesn't respond to lower levels; (2) as a once-a-year prophylactic against cancer or to treat cancer; (3) to help lose excess body fat quickly (ketosis suppresses appetite).

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4873 · May 19, 2012 at 3:02 PM

Yep. Somewhere around 5 or 6 it starts to feel like a long term fast -- orthostatic hypotension, extreme lack of energy. There are visible symptoms too -- hairy tongue, deflated veins. High ketosis has harmful effects and in general I think it should be avoided, but there are a few circumstances where the benefits outweigh the harm: (1) To treat a disease (like my migraines) that doesn't respond to lower levels; (2) as a once-a-year prophylactic against cancer or to treat cancer; (3) to help lose excess body fat quickly (ketosis suppresses appetite).

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11478 · May 19, 2012 at 2:21 PM

RobS, this is increbible. Aside from the benefit to your migranes, can you feel any physical difference when your ketones or at 5+? Could you "feel" your ketosis level without a meter (I have one, but I'd like to know if there is any benefit in pushing for higher levels).

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355 · May 19, 2012 at 5:23 AM

Lucas Tarfur's comments here may be useful.

Also, RobS keeps his beta-hydroxybutyrate above 5.5 on the Johns Hopkins epilepsy ratio.

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4873 · May 19, 2012 at 2:26 PM

You're right, I did that for about a year (with a few breaks), but nowadays I've found that a lower level works fine. I think the lowest level that gives the desired benefits is the best.

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11478 · May 18, 2012 at 3:44 PM

I bought a blood ketone meter a couple of weeks ago, and have been testing my ketone levels every evening, as suggested by Volek & Phinney in "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance".

The process is similar to a regular blood glucose meter (in fact it is a regular glucose meter, but with special strips), although the ketone testing process requires a little more blood than a BG test.

The meter is very cheap but the strips are expensive, about $3-5 a test, even if you get them through ebay.

The process has been really illuminating for me as I think I've discovered that despite eating <20g of carbs a day, I'm pushing myself out of ketosis by sometimes eating too much protein. It's also interesting to see the lack of correlation between blood ketones and urine ketones (as measured by ketostix).

Jimmy Moore is also doing a similar 60 day n=1 experiment right now.

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11478 · May 19, 2012 at 5:44 PM

That's all good, but by upping the carbs I meant exchanging some of the meat for vegetables (and therefore carbs) rather than eating big wedges of protein (which is whats denting my numbers).

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1528 · May 19, 2012 at 5:33 PM

Volek says that in his new book. Upping your carbs will move you towards less ketosis, not more, unless you happen to be running an ultramarathon at the same time. If you can't get in the 1.25-2.0 range on <20g, then you need to adjust your protein % down to about 18. Replace w/fat. If that still doesn't work, you need to eat <2000 cal. At <2000 cal, 18% protein (maybe 15 for less active women), and <20g carb, you should get there in a couple of weeks. If not, up the exercise. Volek like boulder-pushing, but any lifting should do. Also add coconut/MCTs to your diet, as much as possible. :)

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11478 · May 19, 2012 at 2:04 PM

@Wowza that's great work! Where does Volek say that he keeps at 2.0? I can't get near those levels at <20g. In fact I think I might be better off upping the carb value a bit, and laying off the protein, or eating even more fat (which is kinda tough with no dairy).

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1528 · May 19, 2012 at 1:00 AM

My first reading on the Precision was 1.1! W00t! Volek indicates that "optimal" ketosis for endurance athletes is between 1.25 to 2.5. He himself lives on <50 g total carbs a day to keep at 2.0. To avoid eating too much protein, try maybe keeping it at between 17-20% (depending on your body size) of your daily diet to start and experiment with your readings from there. If you're eating about about 18% protein, <50 g carbs should get you there. Those who are more active/taller can probably eat a little more at still make the optimal zone. Your reading will go up after exercise, and at night.

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2043 · May 18, 2012 at 10:53 PM

Three weeks. I usually do 1 day of HIT, 3 days of lifting and tons of walking.

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11478 · May 18, 2012 at 10:31 PM

How about some high intensity exercise to deplete your liver glycogen? How long have you been trying for?

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2043 · May 18, 2012 at 8:32 PM

I have a ketone meter that has been reading 0.1 to 0.3, I'm not using the keto stix because I have never been able to get them to turn. My carbs are below 30g per day, usually about 15 g. Not sure what else to do at this point.

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11478 · May 18, 2012 at 8:16 PM

You need to be careful not to eat too little, otherwise you'll start canabalising muscle for protein to fuel gluconeogenesis. You'd be much better off dropping the carbs below 30g. Just because you aren't "showing purple" on your ketostix, doesn't mean you aren't in ketosis.

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2043 · May 18, 2012 at 6:42 PM

I guess I am going to have to keep dropping the protein until it kicks in. I'm below 50g/day and below 15g of carbs. /scratching head/

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2297 · May 18, 2012 at 5:38 PM

I can attest to too much protein keeping you out of keto. I was eating 1.5g/lb body weight and never got close to keto - rather puzzled until I cut my protein to 1g/lb BW, and then went into keto.

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11478 · May 18, 2012 at 4:19 PM

Jimmy Moore's wife pulled a 1.5mmol/l first test! Mine was about 0.4mmol/l.

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11478 · May 18, 2012 at 4:08 PM

They suggest anything above 0.5mmol/l, but they can get as high as 1-2.5 in deep ketosis. I was eating 1g of protein per pound of lean body weight, which was enough to knock my ketone levels down to 0.1 - 0.3mmol/l. Cut the protein and now I'm up to 1mmol/l.

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2043 · May 18, 2012 at 3:56 PM

I read that book as well. I'm just not sure what reading actually indicates ketosis. I have tried a 1:4 protein(g) to fat(g) ratio as suggested in the book "sweet potato power". The formula given says to use 0.36 g of protein per lb of body weight, which is less protein that I am used to eating.

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0 · July 23, 2014 at 1:13 AM

Hi Ketosistools here just letting all know that we sell

precision xtra ketone test strips at a very discounted price.

www.ketosistools.com or search ketosistools on the storenvy page.

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0 · November 18, 2013 at 4:22 AM

@borofergie It's a great book isn't it! (phinney's)

Just wanted to let you know that I found the cheapest place online to buy test strips ; $1.59 per strip! I buy from them all the time... www.ketosistools.com

What are the macros you've found to work for you? (I'm a body builder and it's real tough when I have to eat a specific amount of protein to build/repair muscle...)

Alex

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0 · March 14, 2014 at 5:29 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if you have skin in the game with that site, but for anyone else out there reading this, *beware the shipping costs at ketosistools.com* - if you order 10 packs, it's not going to be worth it.

A 50-pack is $75 + $20 shipping (yup - takes 7-10 days to ship too), so you'd end up paying $1.89 per strip. You can get it down to $1.75ish by buying multiple 50-packs (first one is $20 to ship, additional ones $5 ea.)

Still a good deal, assuming they're reputable and you actually get the strips and they're not expired.

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0 · October 28, 2013 at 6:40 AM

Nice to see your post, and welcome to turn to me for some advice when you need path of exile orbs the in your game. Have a nice day.

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0 · September 09, 2012 at 8:13 AM

Hi all,

This is how I do it and it works well everytime...

I keep my protein between 75 - 100% of my lean body weight (lbw) and my carb is 50g or less at all times. Your calories goes up/down depend on your fat NOT protein/carb.

Example:

Name: Bob

170Ibs with 10% bodyfat = 153Ibs (lbw). He will eat between 112 - 153g of protein per day. Calories?... he will eat between 2,500 to 3,000 a day.

Exactly, how much protein will Bob need to eat? Easy, on the heavy training day, he will eat up to 153g, which is 100% of his lbw. Continue with 153g for the next 24 hours. After 24 hours, Bob will go back to 75% of lbw, which is 112g.

The only time your body demands approx 100% of your lbw in protein is on the heavy training day and it lasted up to 24 hours. After that, the body doesn't need as much and will not over-spill any carb from the protein.

So, on a normal day, doing things like walking, shopping, gardening, reading etc... 75% of your lbw in protein will be more than enough. The ONLY time you may eat up to 100% of your lbw in protein is on heavy day.

Cheers,

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0 · May 18, 2012 at 3:56 PM

Do you mind posting an Amazon link to the meter you use? Thx

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11478 · May 18, 2012 at 4:11 PM

This is the one that I use: http://www.amazon.com/Precision-Xtra-Blood-Glucose-Meter/dp/B000N64MZA (it's also called the Optium Xceed in some territories). This is the other meter on the market: http://www.amazon.com/Nova-Max-Plus-Glucose-Monitoring/dp/B0050Z48IU Remember the cost of the meter is irrelevant, it's the cost of the ketone strips that is expensive ($3-$5 a test).

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2043 · May 18, 2012 at 3:59 PM

http://www.novacares.com/cwd/

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