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Adrenal Fatigue after starting Leptin Reset

by (161)
Updated September 16, 2014 at 7:48 PM
Created June 21, 2012 at 11:41 PM

I saw the other similar topics, but while they provide some solutions, i didn't see many explanations in them.

I have been paleo for two months and already lost one sixth of my weight. I have also been doing Leptin Reset for around three weeks.

It made my digestion more regular, but also gave me a combination of alternating costipation and diarrhea. At the same time i have some adrenal fatigue symtpoms:

  • Slow digestion
  • Fatigue, mostly in the morning and halfway through the afternoon (today it finally got me to nap, something i have never done before)
  • Earlier sleepiness than before (11 pm instead of 3 am)
  • Difficulty waking up (this is the most annoying)
  • Low blood pressure; dizziness when changing positions (not every day, but often)
  • Easily agitated / annoyed (only if i forget to eat carbs in the BAB)
  • Sensitivity to light (i may have always had it, but now i notice)

I am basically on holidays and lazing around all day, other than occasional light muscle exercise, so no stress to speak of.

While these symptoms are mild, i didn't have any of them before starting the LRx. I have to add my digestion had always been slow and i have a low resting metabolism (because of long years of carb abuse). The LRx seems to make my digestion regular and daily, but it feels like my gut can't keep up and get things going fast enough. (I drink a lot)

I am going to up my carbs to the upper limit of VLC for one week, add magnesium and sodium and some adaptogens. My question is however why is this happening. I saw "pregnenolone steal syndrome" mentioned, which is interesting me. Can anyone point me to why i am getting adrenal fatigue on the LRx and whether it will go away? I am a biology student, so i appreciate detailed explanations. And at the very least i want to get my snappy mornings back.

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1786 · June 26, 2012 at 7:14 AM

if you are not dealing with your thyroid properly, then yes preg or progesterone will not work properly. read up: ray peat & stop the thyroid madness, etc. lazy & misdirected means that the concept is not right, but has the right intentions, but stops short of addressing the real issues. like saying, the water is dirty and unsafe to drink, lets clean the water, without figuring out why the water is dirty.

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4413 · June 23, 2012 at 5:51 PM

Then again ASton thanks for getting me thinking here. I do have hashimotos and while I have been getting care for that for years it has not always been optimal care and at the time this occured, I may in fact of been hypothyroid. I appeciate you saying this. Im going to try the pregnenolone again and see if converts to progest like we wanted it too. Thanks

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4413 · June 23, 2012 at 5:49 PM

oh wait - you might have meant "should not" rather than "should convert"... OK. Still you are making an assumption her that its Estrogen that is causing the breast pain and in fact that is wrong. For me its progesterone - both too much progesterone hrt and also any amount of pregnenolone. There are many pathways for all these hormones so its complex and more individual than most people know.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645
4413 · June 23, 2012 at 4:41 PM

actually Aston, pregnenolone converts primarily to PROGESTERONE- in women anyway.

Db83c2c5ea492d6716c28a0b561ee174
161 · June 23, 2012 at 12:06 PM

I think i'm starting to understand it. The Kruse mentions that having stress is not good during the leptin reset, because it elevates cortisol unnecessarily... I guess i have no choice but to raise my carbs and minerals until i get back to sleep properly, albeit that will probably slowdown my reset. I will also look into the literature of adrenal response to hypoglycemia.

Db83c2c5ea492d6716c28a0b561ee174
161 · June 23, 2012 at 12:04 PM

@Kelly: i don't drink alcohol. By "i drink a lot" i mean water. Being in ketosis makes me constantly thirsty. Thank you for your answers, everyone. Paleo 2.0's explanation seems the most complete to me, or at least points to a scientifically complete explanation. The theory behind the leptin reset implies that the body adapts by increasing gluconeogenesis to compensate for the chronic lack of carbs. Perhaps my body is just lagging behind in the adaptation?

Db83c2c5ea492d6716c28a0b561ee174
161 · June 23, 2012 at 11:43 AM

Yeah, what Crowlover says is true, however that reveals an even deeper hormonal problem. A little preg supplementation should convert so heavily into estrogens. If it happens it means your thyroid is being hypo and not allowing the preg to convert to the right hormones.

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4413 · June 23, 2012 at 2:51 AM

a sloppy, bullshit concept? Really. How about your give us that research. Aston Adrenal Fatigue and or exhaustion are very real.

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4413 · June 23, 2012 at 2:23 AM

Lazy and misdirected? What does that even mean? Btw, Pregnenolone in any amount down to 10mg, gave me SIGNIFICANT breast pain. Same with my girlfriend. Sure its safe but no hrt is with out side effects for some people and/or if given in the wrong dose.

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3521 · June 23, 2012 at 12:42 AM

Avoiding beef? Why so?

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2688 · June 22, 2012 at 9:09 PM

Its not that you need carbs to convert T4 to T3. More precisely your body will reduce T3 conversion, or convert more to RT3 to preserve glucose for your brain. I have this problem. I need to keep my carbs intake at about 80 gms/day to keep T3 levels proper.

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1786 · June 22, 2012 at 8:58 PM

don's point is that "adrenal fatigue" is a sloppy, bullshit concept. if you do more research you'll discover this.

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3850 · June 22, 2012 at 3:46 PM

That being said, I think you are on the right track. Your body is healing and you need rest. If you're tired earlier and have a hard time waking up go to bed earlier! Also you need lots of salt to keep your blood pressure up and help wtih the dizziness. If you're tired mid day you need more fat and protein calories to get you through.

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3850 · June 22, 2012 at 3:43 PM

I'm a little concerned with your statement "I drink a lot". Is that quantity or frequency? Or both? You said yourself that your digestive system is normalizing under this program (as it should). Alcohol is a potent GI irritant and if the diarrhea correlates to your alcohol consumption, then it's not the protein.

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3850 · June 22, 2012 at 3:40 PM

I totally agree about the sleep. You need lots, and doing the LR progrem especially, is intended to make you sleepier early.

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3850 · June 22, 2012 at 3:39 PM

I don't know how it goes with your particular allergies, but to me lots of salt was necessary to help my adrenals recover.

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4413 · June 22, 2012 at 3:18 PM

Paleo2.0 I was just diagnosed with this issue at nighttime. My fasting bg is too high and my ND explained that my body is increasing cortisol at night to get the glucose it needs. She was specific in that its an increased cortisol issue not adrenaline as you say.... now Im confused. There is a difference. Anyway the fix is supposed to be eating a mini meal w some prot and carbs before bed. So far there as been no change in my Fbg. at any rate, I am confused by your explanation here as my understanding is that cortisol is increased. Do you have a link for that explanation? Thanks a lot.

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2861 · June 22, 2012 at 1:26 PM

As far as the so-called Leptin Reset, maybe the big protein load in one sitting aggravates things further. The protein causes a boost in glucagon that also frees up glucose from the liver, but the protein also causes a boost in insulin that quickly routes the glucose away. So you have situation where liver glucose is being depleted and swept away by the insulin (where as adrenaline frees up glucose and reduces insulin at the same time.) Maybe the big protein load depletes the glucose that adrenaline would normally have available, so the adrenals have to work over-time. Just speculation though.

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2861 · June 22, 2012 at 1:25 PM

I believe the basic idea is that if you are too low of carb and your body thinks not enough glucose is being produced to fuel your brain then your body produces more adrenaline in response. Adrenaline causes glucose to be released from the liver (and maybe speeds up glucogenesis). I had tachycardia, anxiety, and other issues when I went too low of carb, and others have reported the same.

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161 · June 22, 2012 at 8:13 AM

I'm not always tired, in fact i can't say i am tired. I have trouble getting up from bed and get sleepy quickly after dusk, plus the other adrenal fatigue symptoms, but in between i am fine. My cortisol is clearly lower than what it should be. I'm always staying between 25g and 30g of carbs per day, which seems to keep me in ketosis for most of the time. The "Adrenal fatigue" started when i capped carbs lower, to 25g-30g from my original 50g, to make sure i'm doing the LRx properly. I am not overweight anymore, however...

Db83c2c5ea492d6716c28a0b561ee174
161 · June 22, 2012 at 7:05 AM

It could very well be... my thyroid was a little lazy before starting paleo (high carb > pituitary scare > lowered thyroid), but as far as i know the basic daily 25g of carbs should be enough for all the essential processes?

Db83c2c5ea492d6716c28a0b561ee174
161 · June 22, 2012 at 7:02 AM

While i approve of this kind of answer, it's hard for me to call adrenal fatigue a simplistic concept... and the point of my question is precisely to understand the biological mechanism of it. However i will follow this advice too and stick to Paleo, at the very least. At least i'm doing great about cutting out the crap.

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98 · June 22, 2012 at 6:23 AM

That gives some people thyroid issues, T4->T3 conversion in the liver apparently needs carbs

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645
4413 · June 22, 2012 at 6:05 AM

Why not just use Isocort? I could have never gotten to the level of health with Hashimoto's and Adrenal Fatigue without it? Its plant based cortisol.

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7 Answers

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655 · June 22, 2012 at 1:49 AM

You're putting too much faith in labels such as "leptin reset" and "adrenal fatigue". We are very complex and adaptable. Changes in your diet may be helpful, but the concepts you discuss are, at best, vastly simplistic.

Either up your carbs, or wait out the adjustment to the new diet. Whatever you do, have an enjoyable life. We are usually very robust. You are evolved from many generations of grandparents who ate a wide variety of diets.

While there may be an eating pattern and carb ratio where you feel best, you are not a unique fragile "flower" that needs to micro manage an eating plan. Try an eating plan for a month and continue if successful.

Paleo is mostly about cutting out the crap. It's not about believing the nuances of living are primarily controlled by ones diet.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645
4413 · June 23, 2012 at 2:51 AM

a sloppy, bullshit concept? Really. How about your give us that research. Aston Adrenal Fatigue and or exhaustion are very real.

05055dcbf12c81f1cce777ec365870af
1786 · June 22, 2012 at 8:58 PM

don's point is that "adrenal fatigue" is a sloppy, bullshit concept. if you do more research you'll discover this.

Db83c2c5ea492d6716c28a0b561ee174
161 · June 22, 2012 at 7:02 AM

While i approve of this kind of answer, it's hard for me to call adrenal fatigue a simplistic concept... and the point of my question is precisely to understand the biological mechanism of it. However i will follow this advice too and stick to Paleo, at the very least. At least i'm doing great about cutting out the crap.

05055dcbf12c81f1cce777ec365870af
4
1786 · June 22, 2012 at 9:03 PM

if you are not producing enough cortisol for energy, wakefulness, and normal pain relief, then look up how and when the body creates its daily supply of cortisol. it has something to do with 4 hours before waking, and adequate thyroid/t3 hormone.

"adrenal fatigue" is a lazy, misdirected concept.

you can supplement with pregnenolone safely if you want.

eating tons of fats can take a large energy toll on the body to digest.

to get your snappy mornings back, you should just go back to what worked before. just tweak your LR until you get what you want.

05055dcbf12c81f1cce777ec365870af
1786 · June 26, 2012 at 7:14 AM

if you are not dealing with your thyroid properly, then yes preg or progesterone will not work properly. read up: ray peat & stop the thyroid madness, etc. lazy & misdirected means that the concept is not right, but has the right intentions, but stops short of addressing the real issues. like saying, the water is dirty and unsafe to drink, lets clean the water, without figuring out why the water is dirty.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645
4413 · June 23, 2012 at 5:51 PM

Then again ASton thanks for getting me thinking here. I do have hashimotos and while I have been getting care for that for years it has not always been optimal care and at the time this occured, I may in fact of been hypothyroid. I appeciate you saying this. Im going to try the pregnenolone again and see if converts to progest like we wanted it too. Thanks

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645
4413 · June 23, 2012 at 5:49 PM

oh wait - you might have meant "should not" rather than "should convert"... OK. Still you are making an assumption her that its Estrogen that is causing the breast pain and in fact that is wrong. For me its progesterone - both too much progesterone hrt and also any amount of pregnenolone. There are many pathways for all these hormones so its complex and more individual than most people know.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645
4413 · June 23, 2012 at 4:41 PM

actually Aston, pregnenolone converts primarily to PROGESTERONE- in women anyway.

Db83c2c5ea492d6716c28a0b561ee174
161 · June 23, 2012 at 11:43 AM

Yeah, what Crowlover says is true, however that reveals an even deeper hormonal problem. A little preg supplementation should convert so heavily into estrogens. If it happens it means your thyroid is being hypo and not allowing the preg to convert to the right hormones.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645
4413 · June 23, 2012 at 2:23 AM

Lazy and misdirected? What does that even mean? Btw, Pregnenolone in any amount down to 10mg, gave me SIGNIFICANT breast pain. Same with my girlfriend. Sure its safe but no hrt is with out side effects for some people and/or if given in the wrong dose.

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2944 · June 22, 2012 at 12:07 AM

Might your symptoms relate to reduced carbs on the leptin reset?

7f8bc7ce5c34aae50408d31812c839b0
2688 · June 22, 2012 at 9:09 PM

Its not that you need carbs to convert T4 to T3. More precisely your body will reduce T3 conversion, or convert more to RT3 to preserve glucose for your brain. I have this problem. I need to keep my carbs intake at about 80 gms/day to keep T3 levels proper.

Db83c2c5ea492d6716c28a0b561ee174
161 · June 22, 2012 at 7:05 AM

It could very well be... my thyroid was a little lazy before starting paleo (high carb > pituitary scare > lowered thyroid), but as far as i know the basic daily 25g of carbs should be enough for all the essential processes?

Cfdbf3485f0bac5895f86d74afd9fac0
98 · June 22, 2012 at 6:23 AM

That gives some people thyroid issues, T4->T3 conversion in the liver apparently needs carbs

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4413 · June 22, 2012 at 3:14 PM

Aston Adrenal fatigue is common for sure and often missed by doctors, especially MDs but still, you should consider being testing and making sure that you do in fact have it. It may be low all day or it may only be low at certain times of day. Some people have to low of cortisol levels in the AM and too high at night. I would say that your being tired at 11pm instead of 3am is GOOD thing :) - a health improvement!

Anyway the best way to test cortisol and adrenal function is via a 4 sample saliva test (you collect saliva in the bottles they give you at precise times and send it in). Its a very useful test. Again the four sample in a day gives you the most information.

BioHealth makes a good test: Adrenal Stress and Hormone Testing | BioHealth Blog biohealthblog.com/lab-tests-for-hormones/

DiagnosTechs is also good for this test: Adrenal Stress Index??? (ASI???) | DiagnosTechs??? www.diagnostechs.com/Pages/AdrenalStressIndex.aspx

There is a product called Isocort that is plant based cortisol. It can be very very helpful for low cortisol levels when you are unable to get them back on track via diet and good health routine.

Good luck

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3850 · June 22, 2012 at 3:40 PM

I totally agree about the sleep. You need lots, and doing the LR progrem especially, is intended to make you sleepier early.

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260 · June 22, 2012 at 6:01 AM

Adrenal fatigue is not a joke and at extremes can lead to all kinds of other issues, diabetes, chronic hypoglycemia, hypothyroid, cushings, Addison's to name a few. I was just hospitalized for critically low potassium levels and it was embarrassing because everyone kept asking if I had an eating disorder. Anyway, I am doing much better by avoiding dairy, wheat/gluten, beef, high sodium and caffeine to prevent adrenaline surges...for those have burnt out adrenals adrenaline is used in our bodies vs. cortisol. My carb/protein/fat intake is about equal for every meal while avoiding the triggering foods. (I have allergies to dairy/beef, gluten and allergies also cause adrenaline surges).

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3521 · June 23, 2012 at 12:42 AM

Avoiding beef? Why so?

F0e558010a2ecb31fa37b7c491596b8e
3850 · June 22, 2012 at 3:39 PM

I don't know how it goes with your particular allergies, but to me lots of salt was necessary to help my adrenals recover.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645
4413 · June 22, 2012 at 6:05 AM

Why not just use Isocort? I could have never gotten to the level of health with Hashimoto's and Adrenal Fatigue without it? Its plant based cortisol.

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15226 · June 22, 2012 at 1:00 AM

How low carb are you going? That can definitely be a stressor and I suppose could contribute to a pregnenolone steal.

Here's another discussion on here and by the picture you can see how increased cortisol (from being too low carb) could lead to that.

http://paleohacks.com/questions/85724/do-athletes-supplement-with-pregnenolone-should-they#axzz1yROCzdRw

However, if you're always tired (as opposed to 'tired and wired') I'm not sure excess cortisol is to blame.

Db83c2c5ea492d6716c28a0b561ee174
161 · June 22, 2012 at 8:13 AM

I'm not always tired, in fact i can't say i am tired. I have trouble getting up from bed and get sleepy quickly after dusk, plus the other adrenal fatigue symptoms, but in between i am fine. My cortisol is clearly lower than what it should be. I'm always staying between 25g and 30g of carbs per day, which seems to keep me in ketosis for most of the time. The "Adrenal fatigue" started when i capped carbs lower, to 25g-30g from my original 50g, to make sure i'm doing the LRx properly. I am not overweight anymore, however...

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14877 · June 22, 2012 at 2:50 AM

From what I've read of Kruse (and it's not much, because I don't feel like paying), seems like a recipe for general metabolic decline. Increase your carbs.

...and not that looks are everything, but the guy looks too creepy for me to trust his advice anyways.

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