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Are you open to Kruse's "HOLY TRINITY"?

by (6418)
Updated about 1 hour ago
Created February 28, 2012 at 12:53 AM

Read it and consider:

http://jackkruse.com/the-holy-trinity-ct-4/

Are you open to trying The Quilt's life plan?

"A VLCer will always look average, but will a decent lifespans but they will never see optimal either. What is the name of my website? OPTIMAL LIFE, not the sub-optimal one. I am telling you Optimal is better than any paleo template any blogger has come up with. I no longer want our species to be mediocre. We have an A available to us today, so I suggest you begin to reject a B, C, or a D now."

-The Quilt

EDIT So I'm now reading that Kruse may be suggesting that this stuff might make a person resistant to MRSA. Bonus Question: Are you receptive to the idea that the HOLY TRINITY might make you resistant to MRSA?

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9647 · May 11, 2012 at 4:28 AM

Closed because we are closing all of these if they come up. Please do not object, from either side of the debate. See Patrik's post here: http://paleohacks.com/questions/118128/meta-whats-the-deal-with-paleohacks-dr-kruse-and-the-fbi and my comment under this answer: http://paleohacks.com/questions/118128/meta-whats-the-deal-with-paleohacks-dr-kruse-and-the-fbi/118149#118149 Thank you all.

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20411 · March 20, 2012 at 5:56 PM

Rose, do you have a link to that donut paleo diet? Cuz I could really go for that!

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20411 · March 20, 2012 at 5:39 PM

I think I speak for all of us that wish you were still dating Chris. The two of you were so cute together at AHS 11.

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1026 · March 16, 2012 at 5:27 PM

I like Dr. Kruse. I just don't like his style. If you like him, why don't you prove him right?

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8239 · March 16, 2012 at 5:11 PM

Hey Quilt: Please add or remove from this sentence, to enhance meaning, thanks: "A VLCer will always look average, but will a decent lifespans but they will never see optimal either."

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19220 · March 16, 2012 at 1:37 AM

If someone can be a medical doctor for a number of years and not be aware that obesity can be reversible that is interesting in itself.

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78417 · March 16, 2012 at 12:08 AM

Agreed, it the most interesting blog since my first ten hour day of reading "paleo" eleven months ago. Mostly Kurt Harris and Paleo Hacks. Why is there so much hostility to this "idea". And idea with no cost to the (N=1) "Paleo-naut"?

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10768 · March 11, 2012 at 1:08 AM

Dear 'the loon' I don't care if he thinks differently, I was hoping for some more effort into WRITING clearly.

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8979 · March 11, 2012 at 12:50 AM

eat to the seasons, mostly ketogenic paleo, learn to be cold-adapted, and that will turn on your thyroid, lengthen your telomeres, drop excess weight, increase stamina, improve sleep, improve the level of all hormones, and impress your SO.

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8979 · March 11, 2012 at 12:46 AM

submerging your face in water is the way to start the acclimation process. Read the whole CT series to see his recommendations, temps, etc.

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8979 · March 11, 2012 at 12:44 AM

I know that you were trying to make fun of him, but many do consider obesity to be non-reversible, especially in terms of ever being able to eat regularly or even eat "safe" starches.

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8979 · March 11, 2012 at 12:42 AM

clearly, he says he taught himself to think differently than what is taught in school, and it sounds like you can't deal with it.

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8979 · March 11, 2012 at 12:28 AM

We've been duped by the daily photos. It must have been cold the whole time.

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8979 · March 11, 2012 at 12:28 AM

hey, if you don't like it, why don't you prove him wrong?

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8879 · March 05, 2012 at 6:03 PM

DH ... did you read my comment above? The reason I ask is that I'm around Jack's age and grew up in that area. The story, while endearing and allowing for a little poetic license, doesn't ring true.

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1074 · March 05, 2012 at 8:13 AM

iuno I agree since I'm Mongolian and my ancestors were nomads living in the dry, very cold Gobi desert. It makes sense if you're ancestors are from very northern regions. In fact when I was little I felt best by playing in a large freezer in my parents' restaurant.

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1074 · March 05, 2012 at 8:11 AM

who cares about his age? suck silly attacks...

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1074 · March 05, 2012 at 8:09 AM

you can eat vegs. just not safe starches on his reset. keep everything Paleo, not to be confused with Atkins aka bacon/sausages/processed meats. add cold therapy (cold exposure at least) and good sleep, you should lose weight. try combining Kruse's diet with a low reward version (Stephan Guyenet). I eat steak without seasoning, hardboiled eggs and plain boiled seafood. I don't spice things up as it makes it overly appetizing (more calories consumed)

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1074 · March 05, 2012 at 8:06 AM

the US government paying your pensions sure as hell doesn't want you to live to 100 lolol

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19220 · March 02, 2012 at 6:27 PM

I agree Wowza, it is hardly the picture of perfect health.

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6418 · March 01, 2012 at 11:48 PM

So you're trying to slow it all down? Slow and cold, right? Not being facetious here, just clarifying.

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6418 · March 01, 2012 at 11:46 PM

Not a Doctor, I was reading on the comments to Kruse's article linked here and someone talked about how she submerged her face in ice water. From what I could tell, Kruse approved. I'm not taking any more cold showers and I'm not going to stick my face in a bowl of ice water, but I'm not fully sure what he's proposing.

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4029 · March 01, 2012 at 11:21 PM

Thanks tons! I'm off to get informed!

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8255 · March 01, 2012 at 6:14 PM

“My candle burns at both ends; It will not last the night; But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends It gives a lovely light!” Edna St Vincent Millay. The big question I always have in Life Extension type research is, yeah, you live longer, but do you want to? How do you balance the fun of revving your car with the slowness of life extension?

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16131 · March 01, 2012 at 3:36 PM

How awesome! We lived on that side of the state a few years ago - I really liked being closer to Bellingham. *sigh*

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25467 · March 01, 2012 at 1:18 PM

(modern life and food, stress) to live…….our cells and organs all are controlled by chemical clocks……..the faster you run the car, the faster forward your clocks run in every cell until you run out of back up parts (stem cells) or of time…….(death).The more carbs you eat……the faster the clocks run. The more fats you use the slower the clocks run. Time is relative to mammalian biology 100% of the time. Biology, like physics, is all relative to time.

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25467 · March 01, 2012 at 1:17 PM

Human evolution is faster than all other species because of Factor X……..this means that hominids epigenetics is super fast as well……if you fully understand my last post, you will get that the optimal diet and environment is required for ultimate health. That is a ketogenic cold environment………If you are a modern day hominid, you still have your old engine in your new Ferrari exterior. The car looks sweet but it does not run well long term when you put cheap gas in it, while running it wide open……..this is what you are doing by endurance cycling. You are asking your metabolism to run faster

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1528 · March 01, 2012 at 7:35 AM

The core issue is that Nepal is one of the poorest countries in the world, most rural folk live on $1 a day. In Kathmandu, where there are doctors, the average age at death is 70-ish. In rural Sherpa country, it's more like 56 for men, and due to high maternal health problems, possibly 34 for women of childbearing age. Past child-bearing age, women can make it to 63. They have few schools and fewer doctors. Wouldn't hold the Sherpas up as the picture of health, actually. Those few Sherpa men who work in the mountain tourist industry rescuing the stupid white tourists make only about $2K per yr

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3443 · March 01, 2012 at 5:22 AM

These might be a good start: http://gettingstronger.org/2010/03/cold-showers/ http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/health/genetics/brown-fat-revelations-may-lead-to-new-weight-loss-drugs-670440 http://altmedicine.about.com/od/therapiesfrometol/a/hydrotherapy.htm Here is a more sane methodological approach to becoming accustomed to cold exposure gradually and hopefully safely: http://youtu.be/dM_TFoptaTI

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5232 · March 01, 2012 at 4:40 AM

Cold showers are very different than what jack is proposing. On the Kruse thermogenics thread I lay this out pretty clearly. Contrast hydrotherapy has it's place; long term cold exposure doesn't.

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2417 · March 01, 2012 at 3:40 AM

Omit unnecessary words! Ah, I love me some Strunk & White.

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2417 · March 01, 2012 at 3:38 AM

Just had to say thanks for the posts, B.A.D. And hi from a a neighbor (ish) it sounds like. I'm in Whatcom.

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78417 · March 01, 2012 at 12:56 AM

who the hell would date Melissa, she seems like a total bitch. I just logged on this site in forever and first thing I read is a bitch post. Go ahead and delete my acct, like I care lol.

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610 · March 01, 2012 at 12:18 AM

They're not his ideas.

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3651 · February 29, 2012 at 11:04 PM

:) I'm not into the Kruse bashing! I read his stuff for ideas, and he has lots of them. I think he's motivated to change medicine, knows some real problems (don't we all) and he's posting his many ideas instead of keeping them to himself. I'm not going to sleep in a freezer because of his last blog, but I still try and get what I can to think about.

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3521 · February 29, 2012 at 11:01 PM

Hot tubs lower your testosterone :)

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8255 · February 29, 2012 at 10:56 PM

Freeze your buns off, lose oodles of fat. Need any simpler? :)

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6418 · February 29, 2012 at 10:49 PM

Which part are you seeking clarification on?

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8255 · February 29, 2012 at 10:41 PM

I'm more on the scientific side. When people use "Quantum Effect" to describe things, it tends to rub me the wrong way. It's usually used by the "Woo Woo" crowd to handwave the science and fake it. The real quantum effect is at the micro scale (atomic level), and you practically never see it at the macro scale because it averages out (above atomic level). So anyone trying to say something is Quantum on the macro scale is automatically high on my BS meter.

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78417 · February 29, 2012 at 9:24 PM

Harsh is good. No room for softies in my paleosphere. lol

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11254 · February 29, 2012 at 8:50 PM

Despite trying to rid himself of all the influences of the neolithic age, he's still a doctor. This is the therapeutic model leaking in. He talks about seasonality, he's obviously drinking wine and eating dark chocolate, but he gets in a mode where he's thinking primarily about healing a patient, not what's a healthy paleo eater to do.

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3280 · February 29, 2012 at 8:42 PM

It won't be the first time we look like a bunch of weirdos, Bree. ;)

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3280 · February 29, 2012 at 8:40 PM

Thanks Melissa -- we know it isn't easy to be in the moderator's chair.

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11254 · February 29, 2012 at 8:34 PM

Not the injections. He was giving the background as to why he decided a ketogenic paleo diet was ideal.

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11254 · February 29, 2012 at 8:30 PM

I don't think the shower thing will work. Seth Roberts tried that a few years ago and he actually started gaining weight. Dr. Kruse appears to be saying we need to get our skin cold (somewhere around 50-55 degrees) and keep it that way for 45min or so.

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1492 · February 29, 2012 at 8:26 PM

@JayJay, You should work full time on interpreting The Quilt for the rest of us. it might help sift out the gems from his broken grammar and "whacky-woo-woo" (as Bree put it).

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56606 · February 29, 2012 at 8:21 PM

I'm not worried he'll turn off anyone in particular. I'm worried that anyone takes his ideas serious. I don't know why you think I'm some kind of carb crusader, particularly since we have personally emailed each other about my failures on a starch-based diet. It seems rather strange to me. I don't think any one level of carbohydrates is right for everyone, it seems to vary quite heavily.

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8255 · February 29, 2012 at 6:47 PM

Yet it's part of his "Holy Trinity".

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12369 · February 29, 2012 at 4:10 PM

Hee hee it looks like we're all arguing with ourselves once the posts were deleted - what a bunch of weirdo's we are!

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11254 · February 29, 2012 at 3:33 PM

He does not recommend HCG!

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11254 · February 29, 2012 at 3:30 PM

He's pulling disparate things together. He thinks they will work synergistically.

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11254 · February 29, 2012 at 3:19 PM

I did not say Paul is in your clique. I said he's in the right clique. In Paul's case I'd say it was the appropriate sort of letters behind his name, and a carbohydrate story that meshes with the one you want to promulgate. We don't know and the depth of our uncertainty on the subject is deep. So deep that both ketosis and Paul's recommendations can be considered reasonable. Meanwhile people are worried because Dr. Kruse may turn off- who, nutritional scientists? People we've proven wrong? Sorry, I'd rather have him around for idea generation, even if he turns out to be dead wrong.

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24538 · February 29, 2012 at 10:07 AM

Just did a little research and ran across a little gem about Tibetan Sherpas using a 60 year naming system, so there could be confusion whether someone was 60 or 120.

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24538 · February 29, 2012 at 9:35 AM

I've actually been having fun freezing my face off every few days for the slight face lift and brain reset button effect, but that's as far as I'm probably going to take this. I've enjoyed a cold plunge after the sauna, and trying to see how little clothing I can get away with playing outside in the winter for some time because that's just how I roll, but I don't see ice baths in my future.

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19220 · February 29, 2012 at 8:44 AM

I don't think Jack would know about those monks unless they were also mentioned in a motivational, self-help book.

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19220 · February 29, 2012 at 8:38 AM

Interesting stuff Melissa :)

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19220 · February 29, 2012 at 7:44 AM

BoG, Cold water therapy is not a new idea :) No one would care about Jack's style if his content was not so terrible.

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1528 · February 29, 2012 at 4:16 AM

But Melissa, surely you know that those transhumanists who don't calorie restrict have adopted a Ron Rosedale-type of paleo? Look at Max More.

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1528 · February 29, 2012 at 4:13 AM

He's like Ray Kurzweil and the other LEFfies - they'll do anything, anything, in hopes of breaking that 114 barrier. Classic LEF stuff, I'd say.

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15226 · February 29, 2012 at 3:50 AM

Fair enough, but my point was that 1. Before the early 90s there was a knowledge deficit pertaining to the calories out side and 2. UCPs are modulated by cold and leptin and are very important for longevity.

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16131 · February 29, 2012 at 3:41 AM

Wow - well it became clear after profile #3 that something was askew. Of course I totally believe you and trust your work on this - so no follow up is needed. Seriously though, is this Jack Kruse crusade a joke or a weird social experiment? Okay, I realize that I tend to ditch the whole argument pyramid and go right for asshat a lot - but holy hell!

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56606 · February 29, 2012 at 3:26 AM

"Annie" was banned for trolling. If you want to see screenshots of her harassment of moderators and lying, you can contact me personally. Patrik has backed me up. Please flag any further comments from this banned person. No one has a right to an account here. Lots of people don't like me and have been antagonistic towards me and are free to post. It's ridiculous to say I ban people because they aren't "cool" enough.

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56606 · February 29, 2012 at 3:24 AM

For the record Polly/Annie/Steviagrrl keeps creating accounts on here and claiming I deleted her account which had "history." It did not have history, her "answer" here complaining about how terrible we all are was her first post. The fact she thinks I don't like Dr. Kruse because of AHS is perfect proof that she is new here, otherwise she would know I have a long history of arguing with him. Besides that, there are plenty of people here who have called me a b**** on their personal blogs and are totally free to post. Do it here and you'll be banned. It's as simple as that.

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78417 · February 29, 2012 at 2:44 AM

LOTS of people have benefited from Kruse. I have friends who have lost 100lbs following Kruse. That is why I object to the extreme bashing he gets. I'm fine that other people have opinions but if you don't like the guy ignore him. No need to crucify him. AND when I have 2 accounts deleted in 1 day because I disagree with this bashing than something is SERIOUSLY wrong here. I was made fun of and told that I wasn't up to healthy debate. HEALTHY??? Then I disagree and 2 accounts are deleted. Big Brother is here and his name is MELISSA!!

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78417 · February 29, 2012 at 2:38 AM

August you better watch out. Melissa deleted 2 of my accounts today because I disagreed with her. I merely pointed out that she was full of sour grapes because she didn't get picked to speak at AHS and she was bashing some who did get chosen. You are dealing with a 12 year old child here.

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78417 · February 29, 2012 at 2:29 AM

Yep MDA has my vote over PH anyday! This forum is a clique ruled by the "popular kids"--whoever has the most points wins! Speak the truth & hit a nerve & POOF you are deleted.

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78417 · February 29, 2012 at 2:16 AM

Yes Melissa my account had no history because you deleted my first account that showed my membership since early January. You then went on to delete my 2nd account after I called you on it. Thanks for the quote by the way: "also if you create an account here JUST to complain about this thread, I will ban you and keep deleting your stuff until the cows come home". – Melissa- huntgatherlove.com If that doesn't sound like a child trying to assert her power I don't know what does. That's what happens to people who may have some book knowledge but have never really matured emotionally. DELETE!

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80 · February 29, 2012 at 2:13 AM

Ha. I couldn't see this at work and it was driving me nuts. Worth the wait. Nicely done.

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201 · February 29, 2012 at 1:12 AM

Oh good I thought it was just me that had no clue what he was writing about.

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78417 · February 29, 2012 at 1:08 AM

And might I just add: GROW UP AND GET OVER IT ALREADY!!! You give Paleo a BAD name. Knowing a few facts & having lots of points has NOTHING on being emotionally mature enough to allow people their voice especially when you don't agree with it. DONE & DONE!!!

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6418 · February 29, 2012 at 1:02 AM

I turned the shower to cold water only at the end of my shower today. I got cold.

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78417 · February 29, 2012 at 12:51 AM

Thanks TeaElf. Actually, Bea & I are fine now. But after Melissa felt it necessary to delete 2 of my accounts today I will not be back. Too bad cause there are many of you who have a wealth of information to share. But I left Jr.High many years ago and am not willing to play this game anymore. I will move to a forum moderated by ADULTS not 12 year old girls who didn't get accepted to speak so now they bash everyone else who did. THAT is the bottom line.

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17103 · February 29, 2012 at 12:50 AM

Actually, "standing on the shoulders of giants" was a low blow by Newton against his rival Hooke, who had a slouch - probably due to scoliosis. The meaning was that Hook was only "tall" by standing on others' work. It's amazing how much this has been twisted. Besides, Newtonian physics has been shown to not hold true (in regards to approaching the speed of light, for example) by Einstein.

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17103 · February 29, 2012 at 12:47 AM

Are Inuit adapted to the cold? Do they eat many carbs?

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16131 · February 29, 2012 at 12:29 AM

@JDW HCG CRON and LEPTIN DO NOT WORK BY THEMSELVES………they all need cold. And if you go outside the circadian cycles…….you get sick faster………and with each generation the neolithic diseases come earlier…….confounding my profession…….but not me any longer……..and you die sooner." you must eat a strict paleo template with lots of seafood and coconut oil and do a ton of CT……..this will REVERSE the process and add length to your telomeres and you live longer and you reverse every neolithic disease you can imagine" http://jackkruse.com/the-holy-trinity-ct-4/

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17103 · February 29, 2012 at 12:26 AM

Well, gee, what are these funny things at the end of his posts, before the comments. Could they be cites? Sure this one doesn't have many, but this one, where he starts to describe the cold protocol: http://jackkruse.com/the-evolution-of-the-leptin-rx/ has cites.

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16131 · February 29, 2012 at 12:26 AM

I'm no brain surgeon - believe me, but it's implied throughout..."The people in the warm south eating plants and carbs, only get the promise of having many neolithic diseases." "This is what happens in warm adapted mammals and it is the source of mismatches that create all neolithic diseases." "If one eats a higher carb diet in a warm environment it sets up huge mismatches of circadian biology that cause neolithic diseases that are cumulative. " @Lee endless winter until you reverse your neolithic disease."

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17103 · February 29, 2012 at 12:21 AM

If you read the comments in that post you'll see he's encouraging everyone to actually take the test, not daring them to because of the price. I don't want to speak for him but I'd say for a neurosurgeon, $290, is what $29 is to me - chump change.

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56606 · February 29, 2012 at 12:18 AM

https://sites.google.com/site/delawareteasociety/yoked-to-earth-a-treatise-on-corpse-demons-and-bigu

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572 · February 29, 2012 at 12:08 AM

Oh yeah, and could he possibly write in a more confusing manner? Now there's a challenge.

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24538 · February 29, 2012 at 12:06 AM

Grain corpse demons? Sounds interesting, gonna have to google that.

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56606 · February 29, 2012 at 12:01 AM

Being a connoisseur of Tibetan and Nepalese cuisine, I thought maybe he was mistaking them for the Taoist monks who believe in grain corpse demons? The diet of Sherpas and Tibetan Buddhist monks is very high in carbohydrate. I make several recipes I learned from them, like phaparko dhendo, a thick buckwheat pudding served with butter and offal. Buckwheat is a staple crop of the highlands.

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17103 · February 28, 2012 at 11:58 PM

@Bea, where did he actually say "if we choose not to soak in ice that we are going to face early death from neolithic disease"?

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3280 · February 28, 2012 at 11:49 PM

What Bree said is correct -- he has a LONG history here of treating people badly. Sometimes he's helpful, but not often enough. If he wants so badly to be a guru, he could try being less arrogant! Anyway, welcome Annie, I'm glad all that got cleared up. :)

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17103 · February 28, 2012 at 11:46 PM

Actually, "standing on the shoulders of giants" was a low blow by Newton against his rival Hooke, who had slouched. The meaning was that Hook was only "tall" by standing on others' work. It's amazing how much this has been twisted. Besides, Newtonian physics has been shown to not hold true (in regards to approaching the speed of light, for example) by Einstein.

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3280 · February 28, 2012 at 11:43 PM

The only time I ever interacted with Kruse, he sniped my question without answering it. Just acted like an ass, treated me like I was stupid, and I've never even spoken to the guy. He's very immature across the board.

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24538 · February 28, 2012 at 11:34 PM

The self reporting age of sherpas has been problematic, not sure what calendar is used. Several have claimed to be 130+, and when it was looked into further, they were closer to mid-80's. I don't doubt that it feels like 130 years when your freezing your bits off day in and day out.

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19220 · February 28, 2012 at 11:34 PM

I am glad that you have benefited. If Dr. Kruse stuck with those things you mentioned then few would have a problem with him as they are not really controversial here.

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20 · February 28, 2012 at 10:24 PM

@matthew - it might sound low reward, but it's actually pretty awesome. well, it's more awesome when you're done, but even being in the water... it's tough to explain. i was a total cold wimp, but i'm enjoying it heaps. as for jack, meh. i don't like everyone's style, but i'm an opportunist. i'm willing to listen and take what i find useful from all kinds of people. i don't really care what others think, but the crassness shown by many on this thread makes rethink coming here anymore for insight.

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8879 · February 28, 2012 at 9:23 PM

I dislike that term "hater" ... must one be a fan or a hater? I kinda like Jack and imagine if I were to have met him in a social context we'd hit it off just fine. I don't like his version of science and it's a pity that some in influential places are sponsoring him as the next best thing since sliced salmon.

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8879 · February 28, 2012 at 9:20 PM

Nobody ever said "calories out" is only the calories spent to do mechanical work in the body. Uncoupling is just another form of "calories out". Thermal energy is a First Law term in this context.

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10502 · February 28, 2012 at 8:57 PM

I love how dogma is defined as "the arguments of anyone who disagree with you."

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7970 · February 28, 2012 at 8:56 PM

I like it! (Oh, minimum comment length. This should do it.)

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10768 · February 28, 2012 at 8:38 PM

I concur on the cold activation of brown adipose tissue, and it's likely benefits. Both citations and practice seem to support it... Yes, it's the bombastic claims that seem off to me.

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 8:33 PM

Did you see that question some months ago where a woman wrote that cold might shut down a woman's ovaries? I go from arguing against that absurd idea to having to argue that thermotherapy (pioneered by many different cultures before Dr. Kruse was even born) + eating bananas isn't going to shorten your telomeres.

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37187 · February 28, 2012 at 8:23 PM

@Evelyn, please do blog on this. I'll be looking for it!

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 8:23 PM

Let's get this straight- almost everyone who is a writer in this community is a social oddball. I do have a social clique of people I've met through paleo, but Paul, a much older married man, is not part of it, and in fact I've been extremely critical of many of my own friends. There is no reason to be nasty and act like Dr. Kruse is just some "uncool" kid I'm picking on. He's a powerful doctor with powerful friends.

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1614 · February 28, 2012 at 8:21 PM

(a) Because you cannot understand what he is saying doesn't necessarily mean he is unclear in his writing. His writings do require more than one reading to get the main points, but I consider that a plus, that's just me. (b) The plan centers on determining to your own satisfaction where you are at health wise, even despite appearances and feelings. The telomere test is the big takeaway. So the scrutiny needs to focus on that; what can we ascertain from a telomere length data point? What is the literature on it, what are its best criticisms as far as a viable measurement of cellular aging?

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8879 · February 28, 2012 at 8:20 PM

Perhaps his new nickname should be THE QUACKEN

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 8:17 PM

No, because Paul is not arrogant once you get to the meat of his arguments. Hahahaha, to suggest that Paul is part of my clique is totally absurd.

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16131 · February 28, 2012 at 8:07 PM

What a showoff with that formatting. I know you'll get this - there is quite bit of interesting stuff about cold thermogenesis out there. When I read about some biological bit I try to see what foods and environmental factors effect it. Cold exposure seems to have a positive effect on many things. BUT to say that if we choose not to soak in ice that we are going to face early death from neolithic disease seems a bit overboard.

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5188 · February 28, 2012 at 8:04 PM

An ice bath isn't the end of the world. You adapt, that's the point. It doesn't ruin your ability to enjoy the rest of your life any more than giving up bread. Plenty of people will still tell you they'd sooner die than never eat a sandwich again though.

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11254 · February 28, 2012 at 7:40 PM

You can tolerate arrogance as long it comes from a guy in the right clique. Seems consistent with what I said.

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2485 · February 28, 2012 at 7:40 PM

Actually a LOT of progress in science is made by accepting what others believe as a starting point and building on it. Even Issac Newton refers to "standing on the shoulders of giants". There are huge theoretical jumps that can be made by those giants, but science is also about methodically building up proof of those theories and gradually refining them through controlled experimentation.

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5043 · February 28, 2012 at 6:58 PM

Quantum??? Now that's sub-atomic scale stuff. I'm impressed Quilt has is down even though a lot of very smart physicists scratch their heads and mumble incoherently when trying to understand it. Physics is cool. Cosmology is better. What I really want him to do is link this all with reincarnation.

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19220 · February 28, 2012 at 6:54 PM

Also don't uncouple all of your proteins at once or you might fall to pieces.

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5043 · February 28, 2012 at 6:53 PM

@matthew - I LOL'd at that. It was the ice bath stuff that had me going "okay, I'm outta here". Next thing you know we'll be using thistles to wipe...

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12407 · February 28, 2012 at 6:53 PM

That B.A.D. Always making new friends.

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24523 · February 28, 2012 at 6:42 PM

What a beautiful friendship being formed here. Bea Arthur Devany, you are a saint :)

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24523 · February 28, 2012 at 6:33 PM

Evelyn, I don't know if you've ever run across Lyle McDonald stuff, but I suspect a debate between him and Dr. Kruse would be very very interesting. Lyle is a self-proclaimed asshole and knows more physiology than the next than the next ten internet gurus combined. His forum was abuzz with talk of DNP and uncoupling about ten years ago. (Note to people: Do not take DNP)

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24523 · February 28, 2012 at 6:32 PM

Evelyn, I don't know if you've ever run across Lyle McDonald stuff, but I suspect a debate between him and Dr. Kruse would be very very interesting. Lyle is a self-proclaimed asshole and knows more physiology than the next then internet gurus combined. His forum was abuzz with talk of DNP and uncoupling about ten years ago. (Note to people: Do not take DNP)

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8255 · February 28, 2012 at 6:26 PM

I haven't given up my friend yet. I love my electric blankie. :)

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 6:14 PM

I was skeptical of Paul Jaminent at first because he titled his book The Perfect Health Diet, but having read it, it's clear he understands the normal distribution and has a very good grasp of evolutionary biology.

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 6:13 PM

"Chris" = Chris Masterjohn. As for who I'm dating now, I'm not going to go there :)

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 6:11 PM

"Annie", your account had no user history at all, so I sincerely doubt that.

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 6:06 PM

I don't think anyone objects to such a self-experimentation protocol. To call it the optimal primeval human protocol is arrogant and based on factually incorrect beliefs. That's the massive difference between him and many self-experimenters I revere.

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37187 · February 28, 2012 at 5:49 PM

Oh, I do love these conversations--I'd scrape up money for a membership to keep coming here and I'm a VERY poor old lady. @Kamal, I don't expect to attend AHS but I wish I could because I'd LOVE to meet a bunch of the PH regulars. Let's say I'll be there in spirit and I hope you'll all give me your usual great reports/reactions.

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1667 · February 28, 2012 at 5:46 PM

Who is "Chris"? And who are you dating now?

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8879 · February 28, 2012 at 5:22 PM

@Jeff, yes, they seem to shuttle excess fatty acids back out of the mitochondrial membrane. Lots of stuff out there that they're not really true "uncoupling" proteins at all. I'm making my way through some excellent papers on this and hope to blog on it soon.

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8879 · February 28, 2012 at 5:19 PM

I think sigmoidally.

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8879 · February 28, 2012 at 5:10 PM

On cold and receptor affinities (and a whole lot more) Jack's talking out of the region of his body not controlled by his vagus nerve. A cold adapted warm blooded creature has excellent thermogenesis **to keep warm**. The blood and cells and organs of this creature are at essentially the same temperature as some poor schmoe living at the equator. The quantum stuff is total garbage.

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 5:03 PM

Hope we connect again. (If my acct isn't deleted) Thanks again for your kindness. See give us a chance and we can work it out on our own. THAT is called maturity.

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 4:58 PM

Yay Eastern Washington!! We're not all hicks eh?

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16131 · February 28, 2012 at 4:56 PM

What? Really? I thought it was just me and Amerindian. I'm about 100 miles from there but I am on that end of the state too.

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 4:55 PM

I hear ya!! More snow tonite! I'm near Spokane.

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16131 · February 28, 2012 at 4:53 PM

Yes I am. Not originally, but I live in WA - up near the Canadian border, smack in the middle of nowhere. We are prolly frustrated because Spring is taking do dang long to get here! Will it ever stop snowing???

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16131 · February 28, 2012 at 4:51 PM

Oh I also have Mark Sisson's book.

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 4:51 PM

Hi Bea. Thanks so much!! I hear you're a NW lady? Me too! I have lots of books--my hubbie bought Sissons books and we're reading A LOT!! THanks for your kindness:) I'm afraid I may be deleted again once Melissa gets back on.

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16131 · February 28, 2012 at 4:48 PM

Annie I am sorry you are frustrated. Are you new to Paleo? If so, I have Robb Wolf's book on Kindle. It's a solid and great read in my opinion. I would be thrilled to lend it to you if you share an email address.

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 4:46 PM

Why does it have to be a cat fight? Why does my whole acct get deleted the first time I post an unpopular view?

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24523 · February 28, 2012 at 4:44 PM

My diet uses fuzzy logic PLUS leptin PLUS ice packs. Thus it deals with uncertainty much better than traditional leptin + ice pack diets. It is destined to change the way you think, if you would just open your mind and let it in. I call it the "Let The Right One In" diet. It was conceived in Sweden, and tested in clinical trials on young vampires.

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4111 · February 28, 2012 at 4:42 PM

Cat fight! Pass the celery sticks and guacomole. Popcorn isn't paleo you know.

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 4:35 PM

Thanks Bree. I am discouraged. I'm not even a follower of Kruse. I am just beginning and am learning from all different people. It just seems like a clique here. If I compliment someone I agree with it gets deleted. If I state an opinion that the popular folk don't like I get deleted. WOW. I'm not one to even comment normally. It just felt so abrasive I decided to speak out. AND I got deleted.

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2231 · February 28, 2012 at 4:33 PM

YEAH, ME TOO. i use to live with an electric blanket or heating pad.

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 4:32 PM

Don't forget to tell everyone your diet is the very best optimal human diet.

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24523 · February 28, 2012 at 4:29 PM

Quips are the 99%. They will have their say. I am glad that there are a couple answers about facts though.

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12369 · February 28, 2012 at 4:27 PM

Annie - there is a HUGE history with Quilt (Kruse) on PH. And it goes both ways for sure. I know from my own dealings with him here that he has been both helpful to me and extremely critical, dismissive and downright mean when what I thought or believed differed from him. And I've seen his interactions with others that mirrored my own. If his protocols work for you - fantastic! But what others here are simply doing is pointing out that he is not the ONLY way. Oh and ps - speaking to the maturity of the moderators will only get you deleted again - the moderators are omniscient beings here.

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 4:25 PM

Umm I didn't create an account here just to complain about this thread. I have been on PH for awhile trying to learn for myself what works. I am disheartened that the first time I make a comment my whole account gets deleted. This seems like a popularity contest. Maybe you should close PH to new members because obviously you don't want anyone to comment who doesn't agree with you and calls you out on your stuff.

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2231 · February 28, 2012 at 4:21 PM

YES....i agree. there seems to be a huge fear of regaining obesity and possibly dying at some point...both are possible, and i think both are underlying fears in the 'trinity'. we are all going to die, and if i die 2 years earlier than i otherwise would i still wont regret never having sat in a deep freezer.

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 4:17 PM

Bree. I am not bashing anyone. I stated my opinion and my whole account got deleted. From what I see everyone is bashing Kruse.

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24523 · February 28, 2012 at 4:16 PM

Nance, I wish I had enough knowledge to comment more specifically on things, but I'm kind of a dummy :) What I do know is that long rambling posts are kinda fun to read, Jack's assessment of uncoupling proteins is a bit off (I'd need to find citations though I guess), and a large part of the reason some Indian regions have more metabolic disease is displacing meat/fish with rice/sugar. Are you going to AHS12? I'm sure the safe starch panel is going to be "off the chain" as the kids say nowadays.

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 4:14 PM

"also if you create an account here JUST to complain about this thread, I will ban you and keep deleting your stuff until the cows come home"--Melissa. Bea that is what happened. I had an opinion that Melissa didn't agree with and she deleted my WHOLE ACCT. I am here to learn. The first time I make a comment that doesn't agree with the "popular kids" my whole account gets deleted??? WOW! I'm not a "follower" of anyone. Again I am here to learn and to heal myself. I guess stating an opinion is only for the moderators huh? I'd appreciate more mature moderators PLEASE.

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12369 · February 28, 2012 at 4:12 PM

who are trying to be the leaders of the community.

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12369 · February 28, 2012 at 4:11 PM

Hey - Steviagrrl or Annie - it's not very cool to bash on respected members of the PH community. Bea has been here for a long time and her contributions are extremely valuable to the paleo community. And I for one can attest to the fact that she has done more for me than the Quilt has as far as my paleo journey. Her reaction to the blog post is pretty on-point to the ongoing reaction that some are having to Quilt's ongoing rhetoric (some of which has hidden gems, some of which is whacky-woo-woo). We like to have civilized discussions here that include skepticism of those who are or

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37187 · February 28, 2012 at 4:10 PM

As always, you have kept your sense of humor intact and I'd like to hear more of your thoughts about this.

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12407 · February 28, 2012 at 4:04 PM

quips are easy upvotes.

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 3:56 PM

Hey Bea. Just so you know I didn't pull a "Quilt". My account was totally deleted by one of the "moderators". I could not even sign in so I had to register a whole new account. Talk about threatened.

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15226 · February 28, 2012 at 3:52 PM

Evelyn, I believe the main job of the UCPs in muscle is to prevent excess fat accumulation in the cells, however they still provide the benefit of producing additional heat. no?

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1492 · February 28, 2012 at 3:46 PM

@JJ, I am new to Kruse -- just heard of him through the Paleo Summit -- but I had your exact reaction. I wouldn't use the pejorative word "ravings," though.

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16131 · February 28, 2012 at 3:43 PM

Stevia pulled a QUILT! She deleted her comments so now it looks like I am arguing with myself.

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 3:42 PM

also if you create an account here JUST to complain about this thread, I will ban you and keep deleting your stuff until the cows come home.

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 3:41 PM

it is kind of disappointing to me that the most upvoted comments and answers here are simply quips, not addressing the "facts" in Dr. K's article, perhaps because it is so hard to read. If people would just take the time to parse it out, then they would find there is plenty that is just objectively scientifically wrong and there is no reason to make fun of his weird hobbies and bad writing.

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24523 · February 28, 2012 at 3:40 PM

Bea Arthur Devany is definitely NOT in the "in crowd". Check out Dr. Kruse's twitter--it is abuzz with tweets to Sisson, Deans, whole9, Sean Croxton, and other luminaries. That's the in crowd. We who lurk in the shadows have very little notoriety, for the most part.

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 3:34 PM

as I pointed out below, his ideas about evolution are factually incorrect. He is a transhumanist who wants to believe that it has something to do with the paleolithic.

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 3:24 PM

Nance, thanks for stating your opinion. I learn a lot from reading your posts. You are open-minded and intelligent without needing to berate others. Your wisdom and maturity speak volumes:)

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16131 · February 28, 2012 at 3:22 PM

I assure you that I am a nobody. I am not "in" with anyone. I am a stay at home mom with an internet connection and a few facebook friends. So I guess I'll end it on that. I do wonder why some of the folks who follow Dr. K get so wound up when people question him. He has made himself a public figure. He is giving health advice over the internet. Where is the healthy skepticism? So, shall we all agree or stfu? This is not my movement - or his any more than it is one person's. I have the right to express my opinion, and people have the right to agree.

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519 · February 28, 2012 at 3:20 PM

Everyone knows peacocks don't naturally occur in the Netherlands. Hof is putting the brakes on his evolution just by doing the pose.

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 3:16 PM

George the moderators are part of the problem. I've had about 4 answers deleted because I called them out on the witch hunt they've created around Kruse.

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 3:08 PM

I question EVERYTHING! But obviously when my view differs from yours I get deleted. I've had 4 responses deleted so far. Is this how it works here?

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 3:03 PM

That's exactly what I'm picking up. Sour grapes. YOUR opinion is that he's not credible and one of your buddies is? So bash the hell out of him cause he got picked & "you" didn't? I'm not a Secret kind of gal. I'm just trying to learn as much as I can so that I can get healthy. It can be very distracting when the "in crowd" gangs up on a member of the community who has a differing opinion.

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12407 · February 28, 2012 at 2:52 PM

obviously, you haven't done a full reading of people's criticisms of kruse here. are you being willfully glib? strawmen arguments don't fly to well around these parts... the fact that he can't write or spell is only tangential to the fact that he plagiarizes others ideas, states as known science as things that are far from proven and has a reductive approach.

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 2:51 PM

I question EVERYTHING!! I just don't feel the need to crucify other human beings for having a differing opinion. I'm confident enough in my own beliefs that I don't have to try convert others to my way of thinking. And now I see how this site works. If someone doesn't agree with you they delete your question. Really??? Grow up! It seems the "children" who don't get their way go after everyone else. So you didn't get picked for the AHS??? Get over it!!! So you better bash everyone else who did. Emotional immaturity at its best!

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19220 · February 28, 2012 at 2:14 PM

Hot tubs are so old hat now, cold tubs are the future!

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8879 · February 28, 2012 at 2:01 PM

Nance, the UCP's he's talking about in his interview in muscle aren't even the same thermogenic UCP's in brown fat. Perhaps your thyroid is functioning better so you feel warmer. But you haven't changed any thermal coefficient whatever that is.

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19220 · February 28, 2012 at 1:58 PM

Loon, sitting in a bath full of ice everyday sounds pretty low reward to me :)

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9812 · February 28, 2012 at 1:51 PM

+1 for the waters of Lake Minnetonka!

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 1:48 PM

"I'd rather live 75 years while eating until satisfaction, than spend 100 years in a cold tub while eating 2 small steaks a day." That is about where I am right now. If I live way longer I will definitely run out of funds before I croak. And even though I won't need much food, or have much of a heat bill it doesn't seem like such a great idea. It may however be a useful process to get to a more ideal weight for the remainder of my normal life.

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10176 · February 28, 2012 at 12:58 PM

@loon I skimmed the link, got what the three elements are, and went back to washing dishes. I didn't spend much time on it.

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16131 · February 28, 2012 at 11:43 AM

Also, if you lack enough points to cast your downvote just answer a few other questions and soon you will be able to press that down arrow. Cheers!

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16131 · February 28, 2012 at 11:42 AM

Yes, I can see how you would think that Stevia. I didn't give a whole lot of context for my diatribe. I don't feel threatened at all by Dr. K. His blog is very fun to read and I find him endlessly entertaining. My issues are that his recommendations are not at all unique - his "thought" processes to get there might be - but read 4 Hour Body, Mastering Leptin and The Secret and you'll get pretty much the same action steps. I also am irked that since K is taking up a good chunk of AHS time with a few presentations, that means other credible presenters will NOT be given the time they deserve.

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16131 · February 28, 2012 at 11:40 AM

Also, I don't know what's keeping you for downvoting me. Do you need more points? Just answer a few other questions and soon you'll have enough points to cast your vote. Cheers.

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16131 · February 28, 2012 at 11:39 AM

Yes, I can see how you would think that Stevia. I didn't give a whole lot of context for my diatribe. I don't feel threatened at all by Dr. K. His blog is very fun to read and I find him endlessly entertaining. My issues are that his recommendations are not at all unique - his "thought" processes to get there might me - but read 4 Hour Body, Mastering Leptin and The Secret and you'll get pretty much the same action steps. I also am irked that since K is taking up a god chunk of AHS time with a few presentations, that means other credible presenters will NOT be given the time they deserve.

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450 · February 28, 2012 at 11:04 AM

Yeah, 20lbs away from my goal.

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24538 · February 28, 2012 at 8:11 AM

Um, I believe to still lose, not total weight.

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5043 · February 28, 2012 at 7:13 AM

The one who's rushing to judgment here is quilt himself. That's the problem. He makes all kinds of grandiose pronouncements, in some contorted bizarro form of English (many of them without a shred of scientific backing) - and then tells everyone else they don't know squat. He may actually hit on something from time to time, but I for one cannot take someone like that seriously. Certainly not going to make health decisions based on his opinions.

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5043 · February 28, 2012 at 7:09 AM

The one who's rushing to judgment here - about everyone else in the paleo world - is quilt himself. That's the problem. He's like a little kid who wants the sandbox all to himself.

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 6:47 AM

So your Dr. Kruse's ideal audience. Don't question things man, that's just mean! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsogswrH6ck

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 6:46 AM

Yeah, well, that's just like, uh, your opinion man. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsogswrH6ck

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 6:46 AM

Ah, I'm so glad I gave up my friend the electric blanket and happily have become pretty cold resistant

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8979 · February 28, 2012 at 6:45 AM

thhq, you didn't even read it

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8979 · February 28, 2012 at 6:43 AM

oh, but I'd rather do it than follow Guyenet's plan. At least the food tastes good.

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2485 · February 28, 2012 at 6:30 AM

I tried to read it, I really did. All I could think of were the ravings of a bipolar person in an acute manic episode.

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1528 · February 28, 2012 at 6:16 AM

I'd love to see his telomere test results. He should publish them stat.

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 6:02 AM

Meant to say *who are here. Thought I better correct it before I get reamed for being human and making a typo.

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 5:58 AM

The way you people react to him is what's embarrassing. You really give this site a bad name. Now whenever I see some of your names I think "crazy" and skip to another question. THAT is how you appear to us outsiders that are here seeking answers to our real questions.

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 5:54 AM

Wow. You seem really threatened. If you don't like the guy ignore him. Your ranting makes YOU look like the deranged one. If I could vote you down I would. Believe me.

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2485 · February 28, 2012 at 5:23 AM

Or Lynne Cox who does not eat a specialized diet for cold water swims.

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 5:06 AM

This makes me wish I still dated Chris because then we could joke about ruining our telomeres every time we ate a banana.

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5135 · February 28, 2012 at 4:57 AM

I'm a believer that clear writing represents clear thinking. I wouldn't trust my brain to a neurosurgeon whose writing is as confused as Kruse's.

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5135 · February 28, 2012 at 4:54 AM

I don't know. CW doctors may (or may not) be wrong, but I think they have a good faith belief that what they say is backed up by science. Now Read the post the OP links to. All personal revelation and ridiculous claims. Sherpas and Himalayan monks "routinely" live past 100? Pure BS. The map of India has a lot to teach us about health? What? His arguments boil down to "I'm a neurosurgeon" and "I lost a lot of weight". The man is a charlatan and the more he is associated with the paleo community the more he discredits us all.

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1307 · February 28, 2012 at 4:43 AM

I subscribed to his blog on my RSS feed, but what shows up is always in ALL CAPS, so I tend to pass and not even read it. I should try to get past the egregious formatting, bus so far I haven't.

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2175 · February 28, 2012 at 4:30 AM

agreed, but as Doctor House would say "Everybody lies, and you are all idiots, even me". LoL

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18635 · February 28, 2012 at 4:28 AM

trjones: can't really agree with you on the Dr. comment considering this community has no problem calling BS on the stuff that 95% of CW docs pull out their backside.

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4029 · February 28, 2012 at 4:20 AM

20 lbs? Are you missing a digit?

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5135 · February 28, 2012 at 4:04 AM

If you put a Dr. Before your name there's an implication that what you're saying isn't just some bullshit you pulled out of your backside. Asking for evidence to back up extraordinary claims isn't elitist, it's the minimum amount of due diligence a normal thinking person needs to do before evaluating what someone is claiming.

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10176 · February 28, 2012 at 3:49 AM

Aw don't be so harsh. The malbec I had tonight was so good that I'm thinking of turning down the thermostat a little. Brrr. Maybe not until bedtime.

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8858 · February 28, 2012 at 3:48 AM

Nope, no downvote.

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8858 · February 28, 2012 at 3:46 AM

It's not about evidence or woo or anything...the dude is unable to put together a coherent sentence.

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 3:33 AM

Sorry, he didn't come up with any of the ideas that people say they benefit from. Art De Vany and others pioneered IF. John Durant has been into cold stuff since before we even met three years ago.

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 3:31 AM

He makes it sound like he's testing it every meal to see how his food is affecting it.

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 3:25 AM

He makes it sound like he's having it tested after a meal or something so he can get an immediately response.

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10176 · February 28, 2012 at 3:16 AM

+1 for The Elements of Style. Another book from college that I benefitted from when I finally read it 5 years later.

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4111 · February 28, 2012 at 3:16 AM

Ooh another Walter Bishop opportunity. The similarities are mind boggling! Walternate and Kruseate

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5232 · February 28, 2012 at 3:16 AM

If it's low enough reward, stephan may get behind it!

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10176 · February 28, 2012 at 3:09 AM

The plan just doesn't sound rewarding. Who'd want to live to 100 like that? I liked the part about the subway and the pretzels, more than the idea of living in a self-imposed Dachau.

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10176 · February 28, 2012 at 3:03 AM

The plan is simple. HCG, cold, and limited food. The objective is to live as long as a Tibetian monk. If this sound silly I'm sorry. If any part of it sounds paleo let me know.

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8255 · February 28, 2012 at 3:02 AM

Telomere testing at Spectracell Laboratories. I had looked at it in the past. It's got a lot of buzz, but my (mostly uneducamated) thoughts question it. They test telomere length in white blood cells and compare to the average population. Not sure how useful that is (considering the average population is on a SAD). You'd probably have to take the test multiple times and compare to yourself (is it higher or lower) to get something more useful.

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3789 · February 28, 2012 at 3:01 AM

I could not extract what the heck he was talking about.

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11986 · February 28, 2012 at 3:01 AM

"The average American considers "paleo" incredibly harsh." That might have been true a couple of years ago, when "paleo" meant Cordain's paleo, or low-carb paleo, or any other old-school paleo (Neanderthin, anyone?). But if the average American were introduced to the "paleo" that's been presented on PH in the last year, with all the rice and potatoes and fermented grains and OJ and donuts, they'd think it was just another brand of organic Whole Paycheck-type eating. I'm not judging how paleo is changing, mind you -- I don't care what anyone eats or calls themselves. But "harsh"? Not anymore.

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24271 · February 28, 2012 at 2:59 AM

Thank you for being brave enough to say what so many of us have been thinking. This has so clearly been a case of the Emperor's new clothes and finally the little child has declared that he is naked. And lord have mercy is he ever naked. Shame on the leaders of this community for allowing this debacle to go on as long as it has and in many cases encouraging it.

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 2:57 AM

I don't. I value my libido too much. IF is OK though.

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10176 · February 28, 2012 at 2:57 AM

Questions designed to hypnotize....

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10176 · February 28, 2012 at 2:56 AM

I'd like to substitute some meat for the HCG please.

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8879 · February 28, 2012 at 2:54 AM

Has Rosetta Stone released a Leptinmanese, Quiltian, Digisurglish edition ?

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8879 · February 28, 2012 at 2:46 AM

PS ... the reason I ask about age is the whole story line about riding the subway and going to the Museum of Natural History. Doesn't add up to my recollections of NYC around that time.

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701 · February 28, 2012 at 2:39 AM

I could not extract from what I was reading what the actual plan was.

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16131 · February 28, 2012 at 2:30 AM

Yeah - you're prolly right. I'm hot under the collar and hormonal. My hormones have never been the same since implementing stressful regimens like the one Jesus Jack recommends. I may be unreasonable right now. I accept that. I have a lot of healing to do . Back to the ice bath and sending a vote your way. I am interested in what you think after sleeping on it. Please sleep in a moderate temp though. For me?

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37187 · February 28, 2012 at 2:26 AM

The average American considers "paleo" incredibly harsh.

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15226 · February 28, 2012 at 2:25 AM

@Bea- The question is 'are you open to it?' I think she's implying she is open to it.

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37187 · February 28, 2012 at 2:20 AM

@Bea, my opinion is that there's too much rushing to judgement. We can discuss and share reactions without having an absolute, final and party-line opinion. Sorry if you didn't like it but I consider my reaction relevant to the discussion.

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16131 · February 28, 2012 at 2:17 AM

For bleep sake! Then just wait to answer and rack up votes once you HAVE AN OPINION! **Grumbles**

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16131 · February 28, 2012 at 2:13 AM

His account here says 51. He mentioned that he was on Jimmy Moore's show in 2010, actually it was 2011. I think time evades him is all. Maybe he has figured out time travel? I know he can fly because he says he has a perpetual 30,000 ft view of everything. Who knows?

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 2:13 AM

He's 14 in telomere years, which explains his writing style.

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5232 · February 28, 2012 at 2:11 AM

In human years or telomere years?

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24271 · February 28, 2012 at 2:11 AM

+1. Embarrassing barely begins to cover it.

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2485 · February 28, 2012 at 2:11 AM

Oh and also, Paleo is only about weight loss. Nothing else.

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5232 · February 28, 2012 at 2:08 AM

The raw vegans feels super fantastic for the first few months... Harsh is harsh is harsh. There maybe times when harsh methods are indicated but they shouldn't be quid pro quo.

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5232 · February 28, 2012 at 2:07 AM

The raw vegans feels super fantastic for the first few months... Harsh is harsh is harsh. There maybe times when harsh methods are indicated but they should be quid pro quo.

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37187 · February 28, 2012 at 2:06 AM

Now cold is another thing; I hate it, always have. I've noticed I'm less cold on whole foods and plenty of protein but I still don't like it. So even reading Dr Kruse's posts is requiring me to gutsy up.

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37187 · February 28, 2012 at 2:05 AM

Except what's harsh for you might not be harsh for me. Fasting every other day would send many people running in the other direction and I'm not suffering at all--I feel fantastic.

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5135 · February 28, 2012 at 2:00 AM

I'd like to know what evidence he has to back up statements such as the one offered here, but we all know the answer to that one. Funny how he doesn't show up around here so much now that people have started calling out his woo a little.

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 1:25 AM

can someone translate it into English?

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16131 · February 28, 2012 at 1:54 AM

Drinks malbec from a box, sits in a tub full of ice, loads up on Tim Ferris and catches up on Robin Sharma tweets, stands back in amazment at the truth that unfolds!!!

Shall I genuflect? Cross myself? Anoint myself in the waters of Lake Minnetonka? I am not worthy! Oh Dear GROK why oh why did Oprah go off the air? WTF people? Really Brent Pottenger? Really Sean? Really MARK SISSON??? REALLY???

Jumping J on a pogo stick! People, if this is the face YOU want plastered to Paleo - then vote my shit down! Otherwise please be more vocal about your distaste. AHS is going to be a sham because of this guy alone. ALONE!

For the time being I rename Paleo to the Biologically Sound Diet (B.S. protocol for short). A moving target cannot be taken easily. Let's pull chalks! Run! Run while you still can!!!!

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16131 · March 01, 2012 at 3:36 PM

How awesome! We lived on that side of the state a few years ago - I really liked being closer to Bellingham. *sigh*

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2417 · March 01, 2012 at 3:38 AM

Just had to say thanks for the posts, B.A.D. And hi from a a neighbor (ish) it sounds like. I'm in Whatcom.

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3280 · February 29, 2012 at 8:42 PM

It won't be the first time we look like a bunch of weirdos, Bree. ;)

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3280 · February 29, 2012 at 8:40 PM

Thanks Melissa -- we know it isn't easy to be in the moderator's chair.

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12369 · February 29, 2012 at 4:10 PM

Hee hee it looks like we're all arguing with ourselves once the posts were deleted - what a bunch of weirdo's we are!

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16131 · February 29, 2012 at 3:41 AM

Wow - well it became clear after profile #3 that something was askew. Of course I totally believe you and trust your work on this - so no follow up is needed. Seriously though, is this Jack Kruse crusade a joke or a weird social experiment? Okay, I realize that I tend to ditch the whole argument pyramid and go right for asshat a lot - but holy hell!

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56606 · February 29, 2012 at 3:26 AM

"Annie" was banned for trolling. If you want to see screenshots of her harassment of moderators and lying, you can contact me personally. Patrik has backed me up. Please flag any further comments from this banned person. No one has a right to an account here. Lots of people don't like me and have been antagonistic towards me and are free to post. It's ridiculous to say I ban people because they aren't "cool" enough.

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78417 · February 29, 2012 at 1:08 AM

And might I just add: GROW UP AND GET OVER IT ALREADY!!! You give Paleo a BAD name. Knowing a few facts & having lots of points has NOTHING on being emotionally mature enough to allow people their voice especially when you don't agree with it. DONE & DONE!!!

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78417 · February 29, 2012 at 12:51 AM

Thanks TeaElf. Actually, Bea & I are fine now. But after Melissa felt it necessary to delete 2 of my accounts today I will not be back. Too bad cause there are many of you who have a wealth of information to share. But I left Jr.High many years ago and am not willing to play this game anymore. I will move to a forum moderated by ADULTS not 12 year old girls who didn't get accepted to speak so now they bash everyone else who did. THAT is the bottom line.

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3280 · February 28, 2012 at 11:49 PM

What Bree said is correct -- he has a LONG history here of treating people badly. Sometimes he's helpful, but not often enough. If he wants so badly to be a guru, he could try being less arrogant! Anyway, welcome Annie, I'm glad all that got cleared up. :)

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3280 · February 28, 2012 at 11:43 PM

The only time I ever interacted with Kruse, he sniped my question without answering it. Just acted like an ass, treated me like I was stupid, and I've never even spoken to the guy. He's very immature across the board.

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12407 · February 28, 2012 at 6:53 PM

That B.A.D. Always making new friends.

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24523 · February 28, 2012 at 6:42 PM

What a beautiful friendship being formed here. Bea Arthur Devany, you are a saint :)

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 5:03 PM

Hope we connect again. (If my acct isn't deleted) Thanks again for your kindness. See give us a chance and we can work it out on our own. THAT is called maturity.

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 4:58 PM

Yay Eastern Washington!! We're not all hicks eh?

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16131 · February 28, 2012 at 4:56 PM

What? Really? I thought it was just me and Amerindian. I'm about 100 miles from there but I am on that end of the state too.

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 4:55 PM

I hear ya!! More snow tonite! I'm near Spokane.

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16131 · February 28, 2012 at 4:53 PM

Yes I am. Not originally, but I live in WA - up near the Canadian border, smack in the middle of nowhere. We are prolly frustrated because Spring is taking do dang long to get here! Will it ever stop snowing???

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16131 · February 28, 2012 at 4:51 PM

Oh I also have Mark Sisson's book.

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 4:51 PM

Hi Bea. Thanks so much!! I hear you're a NW lady? Me too! I have lots of books--my hubbie bought Sissons books and we're reading A LOT!! THanks for your kindness:) I'm afraid I may be deleted again once Melissa gets back on.

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16131 · February 28, 2012 at 4:48 PM

Annie I am sorry you are frustrated. Are you new to Paleo? If so, I have Robb Wolf's book on Kindle. It's a solid and great read in my opinion. I would be thrilled to lend it to you if you share an email address.

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 4:46 PM

Why does it have to be a cat fight? Why does my whole acct get deleted the first time I post an unpopular view?

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4111 · February 28, 2012 at 4:42 PM

Cat fight! Pass the celery sticks and guacomole. Popcorn isn't paleo you know.

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 4:35 PM

Thanks Bree. I am discouraged. I'm not even a follower of Kruse. I am just beginning and am learning from all different people. It just seems like a clique here. If I compliment someone I agree with it gets deleted. If I state an opinion that the popular folk don't like I get deleted. WOW. I'm not one to even comment normally. It just felt so abrasive I decided to speak out. AND I got deleted.

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12369 · February 28, 2012 at 4:27 PM

Annie - there is a HUGE history with Quilt (Kruse) on PH. And it goes both ways for sure. I know from my own dealings with him here that he has been both helpful to me and extremely critical, dismissive and downright mean when what I thought or believed differed from him. And I've seen his interactions with others that mirrored my own. If his protocols work for you - fantastic! But what others here are simply doing is pointing out that he is not the ONLY way. Oh and ps - speaking to the maturity of the moderators will only get you deleted again - the moderators are omniscient beings here.

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 4:17 PM

Bree. I am not bashing anyone. I stated my opinion and my whole account got deleted. From what I see everyone is bashing Kruse.

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 4:14 PM

"also if you create an account here JUST to complain about this thread, I will ban you and keep deleting your stuff until the cows come home"--Melissa. Bea that is what happened. I had an opinion that Melissa didn't agree with and she deleted my WHOLE ACCT. I am here to learn. The first time I make a comment that doesn't agree with the "popular kids" my whole account gets deleted??? WOW! I'm not a "follower" of anyone. Again I am here to learn and to heal myself. I guess stating an opinion is only for the moderators huh? I'd appreciate more mature moderators PLEASE.

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12369 · February 28, 2012 at 4:12 PM

who are trying to be the leaders of the community.

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12369 · February 28, 2012 at 4:11 PM

Hey - Steviagrrl or Annie - it's not very cool to bash on respected members of the PH community. Bea has been here for a long time and her contributions are extremely valuable to the paleo community. And I for one can attest to the fact that she has done more for me than the Quilt has as far as my paleo journey. Her reaction to the blog post is pretty on-point to the ongoing reaction that some are having to Quilt's ongoing rhetoric (some of which has hidden gems, some of which is whacky-woo-woo). We like to have civilized discussions here that include skepticism of those who are or

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 3:56 PM

Hey Bea. Just so you know I didn't pull a "Quilt". My account was totally deleted by one of the "moderators". I could not even sign in so I had to register a whole new account. Talk about threatened.

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16131 · February 28, 2012 at 3:43 PM

Stevia pulled a QUILT! She deleted her comments so now it looks like I am arguing with myself.

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24523 · February 28, 2012 at 3:40 PM

Bea Arthur Devany is definitely NOT in the "in crowd". Check out Dr. Kruse's twitter--it is abuzz with tweets to Sisson, Deans, whole9, Sean Croxton, and other luminaries. That's the in crowd. We who lurk in the shadows have very little notoriety, for the most part.

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16131 · February 28, 2012 at 3:22 PM

I assure you that I am a nobody. I am not "in" with anyone. I am a stay at home mom with an internet connection and a few facebook friends. So I guess I'll end it on that. I do wonder why some of the folks who follow Dr. K get so wound up when people question him. He has made himself a public figure. He is giving health advice over the internet. Where is the healthy skepticism? So, shall we all agree or stfu? This is not my movement - or his any more than it is one person's. I have the right to express my opinion, and people have the right to agree.

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 3:03 PM

That's exactly what I'm picking up. Sour grapes. YOUR opinion is that he's not credible and one of your buddies is? So bash the hell out of him cause he got picked & "you" didn't? I'm not a Secret kind of gal. I'm just trying to learn as much as I can so that I can get healthy. It can be very distracting when the "in crowd" gangs up on a member of the community who has a differing opinion.

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9812 · February 28, 2012 at 1:51 PM

+1 for the waters of Lake Minnetonka!

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16131 · February 28, 2012 at 11:43 AM

Also, if you lack enough points to cast your downvote just answer a few other questions and soon you will be able to press that down arrow. Cheers!

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16131 · February 28, 2012 at 11:42 AM

Yes, I can see how you would think that Stevia. I didn't give a whole lot of context for my diatribe. I don't feel threatened at all by Dr. K. His blog is very fun to read and I find him endlessly entertaining. My issues are that his recommendations are not at all unique - his "thought" processes to get there might be - but read 4 Hour Body, Mastering Leptin and The Secret and you'll get pretty much the same action steps. I also am irked that since K is taking up a good chunk of AHS time with a few presentations, that means other credible presenters will NOT be given the time they deserve.

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16131 · February 28, 2012 at 11:40 AM

Also, I don't know what's keeping you for downvoting me. Do you need more points? Just answer a few other questions and soon you'll have enough points to cast your vote. Cheers.

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16131 · February 28, 2012 at 11:39 AM

Yes, I can see how you would think that Stevia. I didn't give a whole lot of context for my diatribe. I don't feel threatened at all by Dr. K. His blog is very fun to read and I find him endlessly entertaining. My issues are that his recommendations are not at all unique - his "thought" processes to get there might me - but read 4 Hour Body, Mastering Leptin and The Secret and you'll get pretty much the same action steps. I also am irked that since K is taking up a god chunk of AHS time with a few presentations, that means other credible presenters will NOT be given the time they deserve.

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 5:54 AM

Wow. You seem really threatened. If you don't like the guy ignore him. Your ranting makes YOU look like the deranged one. If I could vote you down I would. Believe me.

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10176 · February 28, 2012 at 3:49 AM

Aw don't be so harsh. The malbec I had tonight was so good that I'm thinking of turning down the thermostat a little. Brrr. Maybe not until bedtime.

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8858 · February 28, 2012 at 3:48 AM

Nope, no downvote.

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24271 · February 28, 2012 at 2:59 AM

Thank you for being brave enough to say what so many of us have been thinking. This has so clearly been a case of the Emperor's new clothes and finally the little child has declared that he is naked. And lord have mercy is he ever naked. Shame on the leaders of this community for allowing this debacle to go on as long as it has and in many cases encouraging it.

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7970 · February 28, 2012 at 1:37 AM

are-you-open-to-kruse's-

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80 · February 29, 2012 at 2:13 AM

Ha. I couldn't see this at work and it was driving me nuts. Worth the wait. Nicely done.

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7970 · February 28, 2012 at 8:56 PM

I like it! (Oh, minimum comment length. This should do it.)

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8879 · February 28, 2012 at 8:20 PM

Perhaps his new nickname should be THE QUACKEN

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3651 · February 28, 2012 at 1:16 AM

Do I have to understand it first? :)

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610 · March 01, 2012 at 12:18 AM

They're not his ideas.

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3651 · February 29, 2012 at 11:04 PM

:) I'm not into the Kruse bashing! I read his stuff for ideas, and he has lots of them. I think he's motivated to change medicine, knows some real problems (don't we all) and he's posting his many ideas instead of keeping them to himself. I'm not going to sleep in a freezer because of his last blog, but I still try and get what I can to think about.

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201 · February 29, 2012 at 1:12 AM

Oh good I thought it was just me that had no clue what he was writing about.

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8879 · February 28, 2012 at 2:54 AM

Has Rosetta Stone released a Leptinmanese, Quiltian, Digisurglish edition ?

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 1:25 AM

can someone translate it into English?

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18635 · February 28, 2012 at 4:00 AM

I may have misread something....It was a very long post and I'm prone to skimming. Anyhow, I see nothing wrong with two out of three. Keto paleo diet outside of very warm weather and working on our cold adaptation. I mean these aren't really all that controversial as far as I can tell until you throw in his theorizing on "why". And its simply his hypothesis .....so on and on.

In terms of what it is....well as a prescription it is likely less dangerous than an over the counter NSAID, so if I'm looking at risk/benefit it doesn't bother me.

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1492 · February 29, 2012 at 8:26 PM

@JayJay, You should work full time on interpreting The Quilt for the rest of us. it might help sift out the gems from his broken grammar and "whacky-woo-woo" (as Bree put it).

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12369 · February 28, 2012 at 2:11 AM

Oh boy! I must think diagonally if he thinks vertically and horizontally! I think he needs to read one more book before he posts again: Strunk and White's The Elements of Style

But really the HCG thing kinda scares me and seems totally against all 'paleo' principles.

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2417 · March 01, 2012 at 3:40 AM

Omit unnecessary words! Ah, I love me some Strunk & White.

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8879 · February 28, 2012 at 5:19 PM

I think sigmoidally.

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10176 · February 28, 2012 at 3:16 AM

+1 for The Elements of Style. Another book from college that I benefitted from when I finally read it 5 years later.

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8879 · February 28, 2012 at 2:02 AM

I hope he has the sense to take it down. It's embarrassing really.

Does anyone know how old Jack is? Healthgrades says 46. Can't be.

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8879 · March 05, 2012 at 6:03 PM

DH ... did you read my comment above? The reason I ask is that I'm around Jack's age and grew up in that area. The story, while endearing and allowing for a little poetic license, doesn't ring true.

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1074 · March 05, 2012 at 8:11 AM

who cares about his age? suck silly attacks...

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 6:02 AM

Meant to say *who are here. Thought I better correct it before I get reamed for being human and making a typo.

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 5:58 AM

The way you people react to him is what's embarrassing. You really give this site a bad name. Now whenever I see some of your names I think "crazy" and skip to another question. THAT is how you appear to us outsiders that are here seeking answers to our real questions.

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8879 · February 28, 2012 at 2:46 AM

PS ... the reason I ask about age is the whole story line about riding the subway and going to the Museum of Natural History. Doesn't add up to my recollections of NYC around that time.

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16131 · February 28, 2012 at 2:13 AM

His account here says 51. He mentioned that he was on Jimmy Moore's show in 2010, actually it was 2011. I think time evades him is all. Maybe he has figured out time travel? I know he can fly because he says he has a perpetual 30,000 ft view of everything. Who knows?

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 2:13 AM

He's 14 in telomere years, which explains his writing style.

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5232 · February 28, 2012 at 2:11 AM

In human years or telomere years?

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24271 · February 28, 2012 at 2:11 AM

+1. Embarrassing barely begins to cover it.

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24523 · September 07, 2013 at 12:44 AM

Being of Indian origin, I am very into this post. Here are things I'm going to directly implement into my way of life:

Obtain synethetic leptin, turn into Superman

"Do you really want to know why synthetic leptin was buried from development for sale? My opinion is they knew exactly what they were doing. Why would you need Amgen if you could cure all neolithic disease, including cancer and diabetes?"

Drop my theories, piecemeal, onto internet forums

"I went to another site (PH) and started dropping some of the theory in piecemeal fashion. That was not a good idea either, because dogma is hard to let go for anyone."

Embrace the quantum effect of cold

"The cold uses a ???quantum effect??? brought about by a heightened receptor binding affinity which supra-sensitizes all receptors to all hormones levels. It makes us have supra-human abilities. Those abilities are seen in Sherpa???s, Lance Armstrong, and Michael Phelps."

Really though, this post does inspire me to do a few things. One is that I want to read more about physics. Physics is fascinating, but not so much as it relates to the electrons in my diet but rather to the universe and matter in general. I want to forward Kruse's post to a clever physics professor I know, but I have to make sure to attach a disclaimer that I in no way affiliate with this "paleo" thing that Kruse is mentioning. Another is that I need to read more about the Indian subcontinent. Not necessarily about how Sherpas dominate southern Indians because of their cold adaptation (?) but rather the vast amount of history that I missed going through the American schools system.

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8255 · February 29, 2012 at 10:41 PM

I'm more on the scientific side. When people use "Quantum Effect" to describe things, it tends to rub me the wrong way. It's usually used by the "Woo Woo" crowd to handwave the science and fake it. The real quantum effect is at the micro scale (atomic level), and you practically never see it at the macro scale because it averages out (above atomic level). So anyone trying to say something is Quantum on the macro scale is automatically high on my BS meter.

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5043 · February 28, 2012 at 6:58 PM

Quantum??? Now that's sub-atomic scale stuff. I'm impressed Quilt has is down even though a lot of very smart physicists scratch their heads and mumble incoherently when trying to understand it. Physics is cool. Cosmology is better. What I really want him to do is link this all with reincarnation.

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19220 · February 28, 2012 at 6:54 PM

Also don't uncouple all of your proteins at once or you might fall to pieces.

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24523 · February 28, 2012 at 6:33 PM

Evelyn, I don't know if you've ever run across Lyle McDonald stuff, but I suspect a debate between him and Dr. Kruse would be very very interesting. Lyle is a self-proclaimed asshole and knows more physiology than the next than the next ten internet gurus combined. His forum was abuzz with talk of DNP and uncoupling about ten years ago. (Note to people: Do not take DNP)

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24523 · February 28, 2012 at 6:32 PM

Evelyn, I don't know if you've ever run across Lyle McDonald stuff, but I suspect a debate between him and Dr. Kruse would be very very interesting. Lyle is a self-proclaimed asshole and knows more physiology than the next then internet gurus combined. His forum was abuzz with talk of DNP and uncoupling about ten years ago. (Note to people: Do not take DNP)

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37187 · February 28, 2012 at 5:49 PM

Oh, I do love these conversations--I'd scrape up money for a membership to keep coming here and I'm a VERY poor old lady. @Kamal, I don't expect to attend AHS but I wish I could because I'd LOVE to meet a bunch of the PH regulars. Let's say I'll be there in spirit and I hope you'll all give me your usual great reports/reactions.

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8879 · February 28, 2012 at 5:10 PM

On cold and receptor affinities (and a whole lot more) Jack's talking out of the region of his body not controlled by his vagus nerve. A cold adapted warm blooded creature has excellent thermogenesis **to keep warm**. The blood and cells and organs of this creature are at essentially the same temperature as some poor schmoe living at the equator. The quantum stuff is total garbage.

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24523 · February 28, 2012 at 4:44 PM

My diet uses fuzzy logic PLUS leptin PLUS ice packs. Thus it deals with uncertainty much better than traditional leptin + ice pack diets. It is destined to change the way you think, if you would just open your mind and let it in. I call it the "Let The Right One In" diet. It was conceived in Sweden, and tested in clinical trials on young vampires.

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 4:32 PM

Don't forget to tell everyone your diet is the very best optimal human diet.

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24523 · February 28, 2012 at 4:16 PM

Nance, I wish I had enough knowledge to comment more specifically on things, but I'm kind of a dummy :) What I do know is that long rambling posts are kinda fun to read, Jack's assessment of uncoupling proteins is a bit off (I'd need to find citations though I guess), and a large part of the reason some Indian regions have more metabolic disease is displacing meat/fish with rice/sugar. Are you going to AHS12? I'm sure the safe starch panel is going to be "off the chain" as the kids say nowadays.

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37187 · February 28, 2012 at 4:10 PM

As always, you have kept your sense of humor intact and I'd like to hear more of your thoughts about this.

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1026 · February 28, 2012 at 10:37 AM

I like Dr. Kruse. He's always calm, polite. He doesn't really care people call him a quack or laugh with his ideas. Sometimes I wonder if he's just trying to get his name out there, trying to get popular. And quotes like these :

My brain thinks horizontally and vertically. Most people work in the vertical dimension because of how we are taught to think in schools in modern times. This method of education leads physicians, scientists, and most of the world to a habit or thinking reductively about all things. We all need to rethink how we think about all things, as I spoke about today with Sean in my talk. I was not born with this ability to think horizontally or vertically. I taught myself how to do it as a kid, when I learned about how Einstein, DaVinci, and Michelangelo thought.

don't help. That's narcissism. I've always believed that a narcissi won't get far, since he only think about himself. Still, he continues with some nice quotes. A quote from his mother :

She told me that life begins at the edge of our comfort zone but too often our fears keep us from going there.

And about his childhood :

We had to rely on others to survive and they made sure we knew about it in many subtle ways. Even as a kid I felt that and it was uneasy.

I gotta say I thought I wouldn't be able to go through the article, but this intrigued me. Dr. Kruse is clearly talking about his childhood, so I considered this a great chance to understand the man better. So I continued reading :

She told me back then, that if I wanted to change my lot in life I had to learn things and begin to create my own reality. I can hear her saying it as I type these words with tears in my eyes. It was the greatest gift my mother ever gave to me. I am sad that I never told her that before she died recently. I am also sad that she never saw the true power of that lesson unleashed. Ironically, what I uncovered here, might have allowed her to do just that, if I would have begun it sooner. That is a regret I will have to live with. I am hoping to close that wound by sharing it with all of you now.

You can say what you want about Dr. Kruse, but this quote is beautiful. I asked myself again "is he for real, or is he just messing with us". Similar thing happened to me : my aunt died 2 years ago (suicide). I loved her, and when I heard what she ate (2 sandwiches a day, no food containing zinc or other important minerals), I got a bit unwell too.

I was a shell of a person, and did not represent what I wanted to be. I was a mediocre specimen of a human.

There is clearly a problem with Dr. Kruse that he needs to solve : I think he's blinded by his own success, like so many people. Like durianrider, the raw vegan that can't shut his mouth about his diet. Like his friend Freelea, that shows off her body whenever she can. That's dangerous. That's how people fall into the 30-bananas-a-day trap and get depressed and ill. And if Jack thinks the same way about his diet, similar things can happen. I'm glad PaleoHacks is different, as we have things like "safe starches". Jack Kruse says "there is no such thing as a safe starch". So I hope people will be able to tell for themselves what makes sense and what doesn't.

And then he goes on about his magical findings, about monks and cold. He is not very clear about what science articles he read, what his findings were exactly, ... It sounds something like "sherpa's are superhumans and the eat ketogenic but they also live in the cold so this is he solution to everything : eat ketogenic and stay in the cold". Yeah, that's a lot of fun. I've done that. I did lose weight, but I didn't need to. My skin got inflamed. I had to stop eating eggs, but that didn't solve everything. So saying something like :

Every time I tried to disprove what I had found??????.I lost. This implied I found something huge.

sounds like total crap to me. You're a scientist, but you say : because I tested it three times and found out the theory is still true, it must be the solution to everything. Dr. Kruse, you might be on to something, but this is not a smart way to tell it to the world. You sound just like me on my vegan days when I said : "of course, the theory of alkalinity explains everything"! If you're really a scientist, and you were on to something, you would have waited until you'd be absolutely sure. You would be patient and test, test, test, ... Again, I ask myself : "is he serious, or is he just trying to get us pissed so he gets more website views"?

So, I went to another site (PH) and started dropping some of the theory in piecemeal fashion. That was not a good idea either, because dogma is hard to let go for anyone.

Wait, are you saying PaleoHacks is dogmatic??? If we were, we would quote Loren Cordain all the time. Instead, we quote Dr. Kurt Harris, Dr. Paul Jaminet. and Dr. Stephan Guyenet : they defend starches, they started things like food rewards, ... Stephan Guyenet even defended sugar recently. If anyone is dogmatic here, it's you, Dr. Kruse.

...

I continued reading the rest. But the more I read, the more it looks made-up with some random scientific words thrown in. I won't reject (yet) what he says :

If you do not buy it now, you might pay a steep price later.

I can't tell you if he's right or wrong (or both). But I can tell you this : if he's right, he just got lucky.


Dr. Kruse, your organization sucks. Your article is a big mess. If you really believe your theory is revolutionary, then pay someone to write it down for you. Don't rush into things, be patient and write everything down using titles, subtitles, images, ... : this will make reading easier, and people might actually take you seriously.

I would like you to explain to me why my sleep got worse on a ketogenic diet, also.

go take a $290 test to test your telomeres and prove to yourself that I am wrong

The fact you put the price of the test in the same phrase means you're afraid of people that would actually do this. I hope some people will do this!

During the whole article you act as if your theory is amazing and awesome, but honestly : after reading that whole thing, I still don't even know what your theory is. What? Do I have to go swimming in lakes during the winter now? Or immigrate to the himalayas and eat way less? I don't know about you, but I'd rather live 75 years while eating until satisfaction, than spend 100 years in a cold tub while eating 2 small steaks a day.

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1026 · March 16, 2012 at 5:27 PM

I like Dr. Kruse. I just don't like his style. If you like him, why don't you prove him right?

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8979 · March 11, 2012 at 12:28 AM

hey, if you don't like it, why don't you prove him wrong?

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1074 · March 05, 2012 at 8:06 AM

the US government paying your pensions sure as hell doesn't want you to live to 100 lolol

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1528 · February 29, 2012 at 4:13 AM

He's like Ray Kurzweil and the other LEFfies - they'll do anything, anything, in hopes of breaking that 114 barrier. Classic LEF stuff, I'd say.

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17103 · February 29, 2012 at 12:21 AM

If you read the comments in that post you'll see he's encouraging everyone to actually take the test, not daring them to because of the price. I don't want to speak for him but I'd say for a neurosurgeon, $290, is what $29 is to me - chump change.

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10502 · February 28, 2012 at 8:57 PM

I love how dogma is defined as "the arguments of anyone who disagree with you."

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 1:48 PM

"I'd rather live 75 years while eating until satisfaction, than spend 100 years in a cold tub while eating 2 small steaks a day." That is about where I am right now. If I live way longer I will definitely run out of funds before I croak. And even though I won't need much food, or have much of a heat bill it doesn't seem like such a great idea. It may however be a useful process to get to a more ideal weight for the remainder of my normal life.

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5232 · February 28, 2012 at 1:58 AM

Let's not tailor weight loss to individuals and their unique pathologies and physiology, let's instead combine the most violent, harsh weigh loss strategies into a single protocol that may be harsh as hell on the body but sure will cause weight loss. Because that's what life is really about, right? It's about not being heavy. Well being be damned!

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20411 · March 20, 2012 at 5:56 PM

Rose, do you have a link to that donut paleo diet? Cuz I could really go for that!

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78417 · February 29, 2012 at 9:24 PM

Harsh is good. No room for softies in my paleosphere. lol

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5232 · February 28, 2012 at 3:16 AM

If it's low enough reward, stephan may get behind it!

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10176 · February 28, 2012 at 3:09 AM

The plan just doesn't sound rewarding. Who'd want to live to 100 like that? I liked the part about the subway and the pretzels, more than the idea of living in a self-imposed Dachau.

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11986 · February 28, 2012 at 3:01 AM

"The average American considers "paleo" incredibly harsh." That might have been true a couple of years ago, when "paleo" meant Cordain's paleo, or low-carb paleo, or any other old-school paleo (Neanderthin, anyone?). But if the average American were introduced to the "paleo" that's been presented on PH in the last year, with all the rice and potatoes and fermented grains and OJ and donuts, they'd think it was just another brand of organic Whole Paycheck-type eating. I'm not judging how paleo is changing, mind you -- I don't care what anyone eats or calls themselves. But "harsh"? Not anymore.

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37187 · February 28, 2012 at 2:26 AM

The average American considers "paleo" incredibly harsh.

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2485 · February 28, 2012 at 2:11 AM

Oh and also, Paleo is only about weight loss. Nothing else.

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5232 · February 28, 2012 at 2:08 AM

The raw vegans feels super fantastic for the first few months... Harsh is harsh is harsh. There maybe times when harsh methods are indicated but they shouldn't be quid pro quo.

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5232 · February 28, 2012 at 2:07 AM

The raw vegans feels super fantastic for the first few months... Harsh is harsh is harsh. There maybe times when harsh methods are indicated but they should be quid pro quo.

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37187 · February 28, 2012 at 2:06 AM

Now cold is another thing; I hate it, always have. I've noticed I'm less cold on whole foods and plenty of protein but I still don't like it. So even reading Dr Kruse's posts is requiring me to gutsy up.

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37187 · February 28, 2012 at 2:05 AM

Except what's harsh for you might not be harsh for me. Fasting every other day would send many people running in the other direction and I'm not suffering at all--I feel fantastic.

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37187 · February 28, 2012 at 1:45 AM

I want to sleep on it and I don't mean that sarcastically. I think I'll need to read-sleep a few times before I decided to what degree I agree or disagree.

I'll say this. I may be more open to such ideas right now because the shift from IF (intermittent fasting) to ADF (alternate day fasting) is causing seemingly profound changes in how my body feels and reacts so I KNOW there is always the possibility of learning new things--things that are new to us but have been there forever.

If I am experiencing how fabulously my body responds to a 40-hour fast, how can I casually dismiss someone else's experiences with cold and diet?

So right now I'm thinking and considering and not ready to pronounce judgement of any kind.

TUESDAY UPDATE: Okay, after a good night's sleep (at moderate temp, Bea :-)) I am going to read the MDA thread including anecdotal reports of those trying Dr Kruse's protocol but I am going to continue on ADF. . One, I absolutely hate cold and didn't last 2 minutes with an ice pack when I wrecked my ankle. Two, good things are happening on ADF and it deserves the full 8 week action period. I watched a recent Hidden Planet segment in which a reporter visited with the Hazda, a traditional hunter/gatherer tribe in Africa. He accompanied them on a hunt--there was no pancake breakfast and they hiked 2 hours without water bottles. The hunt failed and they had to hike back. The reporter asked what they would do and they told him when the hunt fails they dig tubers and gather fruit. So, as we often speculate on PH, fasting is a natural human condition and while meat is primary carbs will do in a pinch.

Go ahead and yell at me but I don't think this use of cold is a crackpot idea. I may call it impractical, I'm unlikely to try it myself, but I won't call it crackpot. If it had been introduced by Mark Sission in his style I think many people would be thinking--not necessarily acting, but definitely thinking. It's no more radical than ADF in my mind.

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37187 · February 28, 2012 at 8:23 PM

@Evelyn, please do blog on this. I'll be looking for it!

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8879 · February 28, 2012 at 5:22 PM

@Jeff, yes, they seem to shuttle excess fatty acids back out of the mitochondrial membrane. Lots of stuff out there that they're not really true "uncoupling" proteins at all. I'm making my way through some excellent papers on this and hope to blog on it soon.

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15226 · February 28, 2012 at 3:52 PM

Evelyn, I believe the main job of the UCPs in muscle is to prevent excess fat accumulation in the cells, however they still provide the benefit of producing additional heat. no?

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 3:24 PM

Nance, thanks for stating your opinion. I learn a lot from reading your posts. You are open-minded and intelligent without needing to berate others. Your wisdom and maturity speak volumes:)

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8879 · February 28, 2012 at 2:01 PM

Nance, the UCP's he's talking about in his interview in muscle aren't even the same thermogenic UCP's in brown fat. Perhaps your thyroid is functioning better so you feel warmer. But you haven't changed any thermal coefficient whatever that is.

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5043 · February 28, 2012 at 7:13 AM

The one who's rushing to judgment here is quilt himself. That's the problem. He makes all kinds of grandiose pronouncements, in some contorted bizarro form of English (many of them without a shred of scientific backing) - and then tells everyone else they don't know squat. He may actually hit on something from time to time, but I for one cannot take someone like that seriously. Certainly not going to make health decisions based on his opinions.

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5043 · February 28, 2012 at 7:09 AM

The one who's rushing to judgment here - about everyone else in the paleo world - is quilt himself. That's the problem. He's like a little kid who wants the sandbox all to himself.

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 3:33 AM

Sorry, he didn't come up with any of the ideas that people say they benefit from. Art De Vany and others pioneered IF. John Durant has been into cold stuff since before we even met three years ago.

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16131 · February 28, 2012 at 2:30 AM

Yeah - you're prolly right. I'm hot under the collar and hormonal. My hormones have never been the same since implementing stressful regimens like the one Jesus Jack recommends. I may be unreasonable right now. I accept that. I have a lot of healing to do . Back to the ice bath and sending a vote your way. I am interested in what you think after sleeping on it. Please sleep in a moderate temp though. For me?

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15226 · February 28, 2012 at 2:25 AM

@Bea- The question is 'are you open to it?' I think she's implying she is open to it.

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37187 · February 28, 2012 at 2:20 AM

@Bea, my opinion is that there's too much rushing to judgement. We can discuss and share reactions without having an absolute, final and party-line opinion. Sorry if you didn't like it but I consider my reaction relevant to the discussion.

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16131 · February 28, 2012 at 2:17 AM

For bleep sake! Then just wait to answer and rack up votes once you HAVE AN OPINION! **Grumbles**

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 11:27 PM

I tried lots of paleo diets. They'd work for a while, then not. Through the pearls that Dr. Kruse dropped on here and MDA, I discovered I had leaky gut. I found a doctor who was open to 'leaky gut' and cured it. Would have never happened w/o Quilty. Then, I tried his Leptin Reset. I ate 50g protein as soon as I got up. I gained a little at first, then something magical happened--I started losing weight like mad. My doc is into testing. My ldl plummeted, my hdl skyrocketed, my trigs went from 350 to 30 in less than 6 mo. My Vit D was 8, while taking 10,000IU for a year--now it's 89. hsCRP was 10, now it's .1.

Here's my plan for his latest information on Cold Thermogenesis: I am going to take him up on his challenge. I ordered a telomere test kit from SpectraCell and will retest next year.

I have a few issues I want to see if it eating a ketogenic diet through the cold months will resolve.

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78417 · February 29, 2012 at 2:44 AM

LOTS of people have benefited from Kruse. I have friends who have lost 100lbs following Kruse. That is why I object to the extreme bashing he gets. I'm fine that other people have opinions but if you don't like the guy ignore him. No need to crucify him. AND when I have 2 accounts deleted in 1 day because I disagree with this bashing than something is SERIOUSLY wrong here. I was made fun of and told that I wasn't up to healthy debate. HEALTHY??? Then I disagree and 2 accounts are deleted. Big Brother is here and his name is MELISSA!!

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19220 · February 28, 2012 at 11:34 PM

I am glad that you have benefited. If Dr. Kruse stuck with those things you mentioned then few would have a problem with him as they are not really controversial here.

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17103 · February 28, 2012 at 2:42 PM

I don't see very much wrong with his arguments. For some reason, PH members here seem to latch on to things that are irrelevant to his actual arguments. They complain of spelling, style, and so forth, but each time I've listened to him in a podcast, he's articulate, well spoken, and his ideas are clear and make sense. His writing may not match his spoken words, but so what? IRL, I can write much better than I can speak, everyone has different levels of skills.

Just because what he says is further away from conventional wisdom from actual conventional wisdom as compared to other Paleo bloggers, doesn't mean he's wrong. Spending the time to understand the message he's trying to get across, even when it's hard to read would show that he does make sense. Sure, he should get an editor, but, even this post is far more clear than others from his early days.

He's certainly done more to advance the paleosphere than all of his detractors who have "answered" this question put together.

I don't see him as bombastic, or comparing himself to DaVinci, and Michelangelo. Rather, he's actually pointing out that the best ideas were thought by those who went against the grain, against the normal, conventional way of thinking, and that we should avoid that mode of thinking.

No progress was ever made from simply accepting what everyone else believed. Only when you question conventional wisdom, and test those ideas, do you make progress. Isn't that the whole point of science? To test hypotheses? Not to simply accept the surface idea?

Making fun of his choice of analogy simply shows that you lack the ability to comprehend what he's saying. It doesn't speak against his point, it speaks against his style, and it's barely half a notch above ad hominem attacks.

It's the equivalent of saying that you hate Robb Wolf because he doesn't shave his head, or Art De Vany for his lack of a Brooklyn accent, or a beard, or something just as ridiculous.

And worse, there is a lot of history about geometric words to ideas. For example "To be cross with someone" means to be angry with them. The word "orthogonal" has been used in the past to mean the opposite as well. So, why not horizontal and vertical? Don't we constantly hear about horizontal and vertical monopolies? Don't those have meanings? Why not extend the analogy to a mode of thought?

Why claim to be diagonal, when that just means to be in middle of the road between conventional wisdom and paleo? It brings to mind this quote from the original Karate Kid "Walk left side, safe. Walk right side, safe. Walk middle, sooner or later get squish just like grape." If that's your path, go follow Don Matesz and eat more grains, and quit polluting PH.

I remember previous bashing on PH in comments by those who were too ignorant to use a dictionary or to just google it, giggling themselves purple about his use of the word terroir. Now it's about using geometric analogies to the flow of ideas. This is just as craven...

I, for one, found his story about his childhood, cute and funny, and perhaps his voice in this story is that of a child. So what? It's certainly entertaining to me, and doesn't detract from his points. I certainly hope I can guide my own kids down the path of learning and a love for museums and unconventional ideas, because I'd feel a failure if they grow up embracing conventional wisdom.

And more giggling about the hot tub vs ice treatment. Gee folks, what kind of temperatures did we experience in the ice ages? Sure, we had animal skins to wear, but did we fail to survive because there were glaciers everywhere? Just because we're not adapted to the cold today doesn't mean that we can't be.

Can't someone reserve the right to change his mind, and explore new ideas by testing them? Isn't that what science is about? Just because you're too pusillanimous to try a cold shower, and later ice cold water, doesn't mean others are!

Shame on the peanut gallery here! Remember folks, peanuts ain't paleo!

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1528 · February 29, 2012 at 4:16 AM

But Melissa, surely you know that those transhumanists who don't calorie restrict have adopted a Ron Rosedale-type of paleo? Look at Max More.

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17103 · February 29, 2012 at 12:50 AM

Actually, "standing on the shoulders of giants" was a low blow by Newton against his rival Hooke, who had a slouch - probably due to scoliosis. The meaning was that Hook was only "tall" by standing on others' work. It's amazing how much this has been twisted. Besides, Newtonian physics has been shown to not hold true (in regards to approaching the speed of light, for example) by Einstein.

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17103 · February 28, 2012 at 11:46 PM

Actually, "standing on the shoulders of giants" was a low blow by Newton against his rival Hooke, who had slouched. The meaning was that Hook was only "tall" by standing on others' work. It's amazing how much this has been twisted. Besides, Newtonian physics has been shown to not hold true (in regards to approaching the speed of light, for example) by Einstein.

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2485 · February 28, 2012 at 7:40 PM

Actually a LOT of progress in science is made by accepting what others believe as a starting point and building on it. Even Issac Newton refers to "standing on the shoulders of giants". There are huge theoretical jumps that can be made by those giants, but science is also about methodically building up proof of those theories and gradually refining them through controlled experimentation.

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24523 · February 28, 2012 at 4:29 PM

Quips are the 99%. They will have their say. I am glad that there are a couple answers about facts though.

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12407 · February 28, 2012 at 4:04 PM

quips are easy upvotes.

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 3:41 PM

it is kind of disappointing to me that the most upvoted comments and answers here are simply quips, not addressing the "facts" in Dr. K's article, perhaps because it is so hard to read. If people would just take the time to parse it out, then they would find there is plenty that is just objectively scientifically wrong and there is no reason to make fun of his weird hobbies and bad writing.

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 3:34 PM

as I pointed out below, his ideas about evolution are factually incorrect. He is a transhumanist who wants to believe that it has something to do with the paleolithic.

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12407 · February 28, 2012 at 2:52 PM

obviously, you haven't done a full reading of people's criticisms of kruse here. are you being willfully glib? strawmen arguments don't fly to well around these parts... the fact that he can't write or spell is only tangential to the fact that he plagiarizes others ideas, states as known science as things that are far from proven and has a reductive approach.

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4029 · February 28, 2012 at 3:43 AM

Am I open to it? Yes. I was a skeptic that not eating (IF) occasionally would prove as healthy as it has, but when it was explained in clear detail I understand the "why". I'm ready to believe that Intermittent Cold exposure is as positive as Intermittent Fasting.

However, I'll wait until someone can explain what Dr. Kruse is hinting at in a way that isn't wrapped in a halo of a "What the Bleep Do We Know" vibe but is instead in plain english.

Seriously.

I'd believe someone who has such an important message would make an effort to communicate it well, not complain people aren't rising up to his plane.

[Contemplative edit] Can anyone familiar with other, more clearly presented, online articles/posts in cold thermogenesis post links to the best ones? Thanks!

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4029 · March 01, 2012 at 11:21 PM

Thanks tons! I'm off to get informed!

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3443 · March 01, 2012 at 5:22 AM

These might be a good start: http://gettingstronger.org/2010/03/cold-showers/ http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/health/genetics/brown-fat-revelations-may-lead-to-new-weight-loss-drugs-670440 http://altmedicine.about.com/od/therapiesfrometol/a/hydrotherapy.htm Here is a more sane methodological approach to becoming accustomed to cold exposure gradually and hopefully safely: http://youtu.be/dM_TFoptaTI

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3789 · February 28, 2012 at 2:17 AM

I kind of wish I lived in the alternate universe where the anti-Kruse has the same ideas but has the ability to express them coherently in writing.

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19220 · February 29, 2012 at 7:44 AM

BoG, Cold water therapy is not a new idea :) No one would care about Jack's style if his content was not so terrible.

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20 · February 28, 2012 at 10:24 PM

@matthew - it might sound low reward, but it's actually pretty awesome. well, it's more awesome when you're done, but even being in the water... it's tough to explain. i was a total cold wimp, but i'm enjoying it heaps. as for jack, meh. i don't like everyone's style, but i'm an opportunist. i'm willing to listen and take what i find useful from all kinds of people. i don't really care what others think, but the crassness shown by many on this thread makes rethink coming here anymore for insight.

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1614 · February 28, 2012 at 8:21 PM

(a) Because you cannot understand what he is saying doesn't necessarily mean he is unclear in his writing. His writings do require more than one reading to get the main points, but I consider that a plus, that's just me. (b) The plan centers on determining to your own satisfaction where you are at health wise, even despite appearances and feelings. The telomere test is the big takeaway. So the scrutiny needs to focus on that; what can we ascertain from a telomere length data point? What is the literature on it, what are its best criticisms as far as a viable measurement of cellular aging?

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5043 · February 28, 2012 at 6:53 PM

@matthew - I LOL'd at that. It was the ice bath stuff that had me going "okay, I'm outta here". Next thing you know we'll be using thistles to wipe...

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19220 · February 28, 2012 at 1:58 PM

Loon, sitting in a bath full of ice everyday sounds pretty low reward to me :)

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8979 · February 28, 2012 at 6:43 AM

oh, but I'd rather do it than follow Guyenet's plan. At least the food tastes good.

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4111 · February 28, 2012 at 3:16 AM

Ooh another Walter Bishop opportunity. The similarities are mind boggling! Walternate and Kruseate

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10176 · February 28, 2012 at 3:03 AM

The plan is simple. HCG, cold, and limited food. The objective is to live as long as a Tibetian monk. If this sound silly I'm sorry. If any part of it sounds paleo let me know.

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3789 · February 28, 2012 at 3:01 AM

I could not extract what the heck he was talking about.

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701 · February 28, 2012 at 2:39 AM

I could not extract from what I was reading what the actual plan was.

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11254 · February 28, 2012 at 5:56 PM

It seems to me Dr. Kruse's ideas can be subjected to the Robb Wolf test. 30 days of ketogenic paleo, along with cold. I like this because it is testable, doable, though I don't particularly like cold water.

It seems to me some of you assume the 'professionals' will accept you if you cast out the oddballs. I've got news, they won't. You either out-compete the professionals, or they make you their shill. You go from tearing apart their shoddy studies to making blog posts about consensus and giving us lovely little romps through the 'relevant' literature, all without harming any of their sacred cows, or getting them fired for gross incompetence. Politics is not paleo.

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56606 · February 29, 2012 at 8:21 PM

I'm not worried he'll turn off anyone in particular. I'm worried that anyone takes his ideas serious. I don't know why you think I'm some kind of carb crusader, particularly since we have personally emailed each other about my failures on a starch-based diet. It seems rather strange to me. I don't think any one level of carbohydrates is right for everyone, it seems to vary quite heavily.

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11254 · February 29, 2012 at 3:19 PM

I did not say Paul is in your clique. I said he's in the right clique. In Paul's case I'd say it was the appropriate sort of letters behind his name, and a carbohydrate story that meshes with the one you want to promulgate. We don't know and the depth of our uncertainty on the subject is deep. So deep that both ketosis and Paul's recommendations can be considered reasonable. Meanwhile people are worried because Dr. Kruse may turn off- who, nutritional scientists? People we've proven wrong? Sorry, I'd rather have him around for idea generation, even if he turns out to be dead wrong.

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78417 · February 29, 2012 at 2:38 AM

August you better watch out. Melissa deleted 2 of my accounts today because I disagreed with her. I merely pointed out that she was full of sour grapes because she didn't get picked to speak at AHS and she was bashing some who did get chosen. You are dealing with a 12 year old child here.

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 8:23 PM

Let's get this straight- almost everyone who is a writer in this community is a social oddball. I do have a social clique of people I've met through paleo, but Paul, a much older married man, is not part of it, and in fact I've been extremely critical of many of my own friends. There is no reason to be nasty and act like Dr. Kruse is just some "uncool" kid I'm picking on. He's a powerful doctor with powerful friends.

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 8:17 PM

No, because Paul is not arrogant once you get to the meat of his arguments. Hahahaha, to suggest that Paul is part of my clique is totally absurd.

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11254 · February 28, 2012 at 7:40 PM

You can tolerate arrogance as long it comes from a guy in the right clique. Seems consistent with what I said.

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 6:14 PM

I was skeptical of Paul Jaminent at first because he titled his book The Perfect Health Diet, but having read it, it's clear he understands the normal distribution and has a very good grasp of evolutionary biology.

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 6:06 PM

I don't think anyone objects to such a self-experimentation protocol. To call it the optimal primeval human protocol is arrogant and based on factually incorrect beliefs. That's the massive difference between him and many self-experimenters I revere.

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 2:02 AM

" cold adapted mammals in warm climates so much of what has been studied about us is just not correct."

I'm a huge fan of studying cold adaptation in humans (and its potential benefits), but there absolutely no evidence I know of that ancestral hominids were a cold-weather species. Please open up any anthropology textbook and read about ancestral hominids. Certain homo sapiens subspecies possibly did cold adapt and then hybridized with homo sapiens, but genomic scans show that cold adaptation-related genetic adaptations are derived rather than ancestral and not well-distributed among all homo sapiens.

Furthermore, arctic people maintain their extremely low leptin levels (see Leonard et al.) even if they eat a high carbohydrate diet.

" No, you do not need to eat Moose thyroid to have reproductive fitness if you are cold adapted as was recently reported in a podcast."

The cultures that eat things like this are pretty freaking cold adapted considering they live in negative temperatures in TENTS. I don't know how much more cold adapted you can be.

For the record, Wim Hof is the world champion in cold adaptation and does not eat a special LCHF diet at all. I'd like to see Dr. Kruse go up against him. Or me or John Durant (has been doing polar bear swims for years) for that matter.

I'd also like to know what method Dr. Kruse used to check his telomeres.

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1074 · March 05, 2012 at 8:13 AM

iuno I agree since I'm Mongolian and my ancestors were nomads living in the dry, very cold Gobi desert. It makes sense if you're ancestors are from very northern regions. In fact when I was little I felt best by playing in a large freezer in my parents' restaurant.

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 8:33 PM

Did you see that question some months ago where a woman wrote that cold might shut down a woman's ovaries? I go from arguing against that absurd idea to having to argue that thermotherapy (pioneered by many different cultures before Dr. Kruse was even born) + eating bananas isn't going to shorten your telomeres.

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519 · February 28, 2012 at 3:20 PM

Everyone knows peacocks don't naturally occur in the Netherlands. Hof is putting the brakes on his evolution just by doing the pose.

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2485 · February 28, 2012 at 5:23 AM

Or Lynne Cox who does not eat a specialized diet for cold water swims.

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 3:31 AM

He makes it sound like he's testing it every meal to see how his food is affecting it.

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 3:25 AM

He makes it sound like he's having it tested after a meal or something so he can get an immediately response.

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8255 · February 28, 2012 at 3:02 AM

Telomere testing at Spectracell Laboratories. I had looked at it in the past. It's got a lot of buzz, but my (mostly uneducamated) thoughts question it. They test telomere length in white blood cells and compare to the average population. Not sure how useful that is (considering the average population is on a SAD). You'd probably have to take the test multiple times and compare to yourself (is it higher or lower) to get something more useful.

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24271 · February 28, 2012 at 1:29 AM

Pops popcorn, sits back, and waits... ;)

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19220 · February 28, 2012 at 11:23 PM

It is quite difficult to critic a 12,000 word blog post that gives no sources for its information and makes few claims that make sense.

Some things from the start stood out:

The book was a mirror in which I saw my present self. But what really caught my attention, > was what occurred in Chapter three on page 13. "I saw a man becoming transformed, by a bunch of Monks who lived in the Himalaya???s. It was said most of them lived to be over 100 years old on little food, in the cold, and were incredibly productive.

"It was said" is not a great justification for a claim. My understanding is that this book is a work of fiction? But I am prepared to be corrected. I would like to see some actual evidence for most of the monks living to over 100.

"If you draw a line between northern and southern India, you see in the south, near the equator, there are millions of vegetarians who suffer from ridiculous amounts of autoimmune disease and diabetes.

This is a gross simplification of the situation in India and indicates a rather ignorant view of the world. There are large regional disparities in the rate of diabetes across India correlating, as I understand it, more with the modernization of diet and lifestyles than with altitude or vegetarianism.

In the north, we see Sherpa???s and Himalayan Monks who routinely live to hundred years old in subarctic conditions on the top of mountains that seem to reach the sky. Moreover, they eat few calories, wear few clothes, hardly eat or drink, have low stress, great immunity, and are smart and happy people. I remembered from my youth, that the Sherpa???s were the only humans that really had lived in this environment for the last 25,000 years. They also ate a very different diet than the rest of India. It was one that was heavily skewed to animal protein and fats. No carbs really grow that high up or in those temperatures with any regularity. Not even the Inuit have lived in the Arctic as long as the Sherpa???s have in the Himalayas. The Inuit also ate an animal diet but it was high in marine mammals. Both diets were ketogenic for the most part.

This includes some questionable claims. The other sources I could find differ in their thoughts of the traditional Sherpa diet such as this one.

"The Sherpa diet is dominated by starchy foods, supplemented by vegetables, spices, and occasionally meat. In addition, Sherpas drink Tibetan tea (tea served with salt and butter) at all meals and throughout the day. A typical breakfast consists of Tibetan tea and several bowls of gruel made by adding tsampa, a roasted flour, to water, tea, or milk. Lunch is eaten in the late morning and may include boiled potatoes which are dipped in ground spices. Sometimes a stiff dough made from a mixture of grains (sen) is eaten with a thin sauce made from spices and vegetables, or meat if it is available. A typical dinner is a stew (shakpa) consisting of balls of dough, potatoes, and vegetables. Dairy products, especially butter and curds, are important in the Sherpa diet. Sherpas eat meat, but as practicing Buddhists they will not kill animals themselves."

This does not sound like a ketogenic diet and starch based foods are commonly grown in Nepal forming the basis of the diet as in most other parts of the Indian sub-continent.

I also understand that is is possible to wear few clothes, have low stress, great immunity, and be happy at low altitudes in warm climates.

A couple of other points that were amusing:

"This implied to me my obesity might be reversible."

Really, obesity might be reversible? Has no one considered this possibility before?

"It also implied to me that health, pain control and longevity were coupled here as well."

So until now everyone thought health and longevity had nothing to do with each other?

Dr. Kruse says:

"When we live by assumptions, too often and we forget its fundamental concepts. I realized I had to stop living by my life???s assumptions..."

I would agree with this. It is better not to live by assumptions that confirm our ideas but instead to actually find out about what the world is really like.

I don't even know where to start with all the rest of the post. However he has in the past proven not to be a reliable source of information. What I would ask is that people should question Dr. Kruse in the same way they should question any other doctor making questionable claims on the internet.

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19220 · March 16, 2012 at 1:37 AM

If someone can be a medical doctor for a number of years and not be aware that obesity can be reversible that is interesting in itself.

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8979 · March 11, 2012 at 12:44 AM

I know that you were trying to make fun of him, but many do consider obesity to be non-reversible, especially in terms of ever being able to eat regularly or even eat "safe" starches.

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19220 · March 02, 2012 at 6:27 PM

I agree Wowza, it is hardly the picture of perfect health.

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1528 · March 01, 2012 at 7:35 AM

The core issue is that Nepal is one of the poorest countries in the world, most rural folk live on $1 a day. In Kathmandu, where there are doctors, the average age at death is 70-ish. In rural Sherpa country, it's more like 56 for men, and due to high maternal health problems, possibly 34 for women of childbearing age. Past child-bearing age, women can make it to 63. They have few schools and fewer doctors. Wouldn't hold the Sherpas up as the picture of health, actually. Those few Sherpa men who work in the mountain tourist industry rescuing the stupid white tourists make only about $2K per yr

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24538 · February 29, 2012 at 10:07 AM

Just did a little research and ran across a little gem about Tibetan Sherpas using a 60 year naming system, so there could be confusion whether someone was 60 or 120.

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19220 · February 29, 2012 at 8:44 AM

I don't think Jack would know about those monks unless they were also mentioned in a motivational, self-help book.

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19220 · February 29, 2012 at 8:38 AM

Interesting stuff Melissa :)

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56606 · February 29, 2012 at 12:18 AM

https://sites.google.com/site/delawareteasociety/yoked-to-earth-a-treatise-on-corpse-demons-and-bigu

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24538 · February 29, 2012 at 12:06 AM

Grain corpse demons? Sounds interesting, gonna have to google that.

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56606 · February 29, 2012 at 12:01 AM

Being a connoisseur of Tibetan and Nepalese cuisine, I thought maybe he was mistaking them for the Taoist monks who believe in grain corpse demons? The diet of Sherpas and Tibetan Buddhist monks is very high in carbohydrate. I make several recipes I learned from them, like phaparko dhendo, a thick buckwheat pudding served with butter and offal. Buckwheat is a staple crop of the highlands.

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24538 · February 28, 2012 at 11:34 PM

The self reporting age of sherpas has been problematic, not sure what calendar is used. Several have claimed to be 130+, and when it was looked into further, they were closer to mid-80's. I don't doubt that it feels like 130 years when your freezing your bits off day in and day out.

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12407 · February 28, 2012 at 2:08 PM

Does... does... does this mean he's getting rid of the hot tub?!!?!

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8979 · March 11, 2012 at 12:28 AM

We've been duped by the daily photos. It must have been cold the whole time.

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3521 · February 29, 2012 at 11:01 PM

Hot tubs lower your testosterone :)

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19220 · February 28, 2012 at 2:14 PM

Hot tubs are so old hat now, cold tubs are the future!

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39841 · March 16, 2012 at 12:02 AM

are-you-open-to-kruse's-

Anyone else read these posts in Dr. [Nic]K's voice?

Every post should start out with "Hi, everybody!"

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8979 · February 28, 2012 at 6:48 AM

I am open to it, but I have not tried the cold therapy the way people on MDA are doing it. I thought it was his most interesting blog post yet.

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78417 · March 16, 2012 at 12:08 AM

Agreed, it the most interesting blog since my first ten hour day of reading "paleo" eleven months ago. Mostly Kurt Harris and Paleo Hacks. Why is there so much hostility to this "idea". And idea with no cost to the (N=1) "Paleo-naut"?

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8255 · February 29, 2012 at 10:53 PM

You know, in reading through Dr K's blog, I'm convinced there are really two of him. The speaking one you see in presentations/youtube. And a Star Trek style goateed version that types things out online.

But he's sure good for the votes/views. :)

Oh, and I think he's really talking about things already well known in re. cold and losing weight. Scuba divers can lose tons of weight in cold water for example (they usually don't because they eat more afterwards). The question is how to get the same benefits without doing all the scuba diving, and without getting the increase in appetite because of the expenditure. The cold therapy he's describing sounds like an interesting hack of avoiding all the scuba gear (without all the extra BS language), but I'm not sure I'm masochistic enough to want to do it.

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10768 · February 28, 2012 at 7:29 PM

I like medical language for discussing things like anatomy, physiology, and metabolism. His more whacky language choices dilute the clear communication, leading me to care much less what Quilt claims to know.

Communicate it clearly, or get a good editor to clean up what you are putting out there.

Discussions of health should not resemble word-salad or mad-libs!

I want more signal in my signal/noise ratio, so I often just pass the Quilt by... He might have nothing but great ideas, but I'll never know.

I can't see how he got through medical school communicating like this.

Do you know what I mean without the use of jumbled prose? I hope so!

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10768 · March 11, 2012 at 1:08 AM

Dear 'the loon' I don't care if he thinks differently, I was hoping for some more effort into WRITING clearly.

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8979 · March 11, 2012 at 12:42 AM

clearly, he says he taught himself to think differently than what is taught in school, and it sounds like you can't deal with it.

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16131 · February 29, 2012 at 12:29 AM

@JDW HCG CRON and LEPTIN DO NOT WORK BY THEMSELVES………they all need cold. And if you go outside the circadian cycles…….you get sick faster………and with each generation the neolithic diseases come earlier…….confounding my profession…….but not me any longer……..and you die sooner." you must eat a strict paleo template with lots of seafood and coconut oil and do a ton of CT……..this will REVERSE the process and add length to your telomeres and you live longer and you reverse every neolithic disease you can imagine" http://jackkruse.com/the-holy-trinity-ct-4/

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16131 · February 29, 2012 at 12:26 AM

I'm no brain surgeon - believe me, but it's implied throughout..."The people in the warm south eating plants and carbs, only get the promise of having many neolithic diseases." "This is what happens in warm adapted mammals and it is the source of mismatches that create all neolithic diseases." "If one eats a higher carb diet in a warm environment it sets up huge mismatches of circadian biology that cause neolithic diseases that are cumulative. " @Lee endless winter until you reverse your neolithic disease."

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17103 · February 28, 2012 at 11:58 PM

@Bea, where did he actually say "if we choose not to soak in ice that we are going to face early death from neolithic disease"?

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10768 · February 28, 2012 at 8:38 PM

I concur on the cold activation of brown adipose tissue, and it's likely benefits. Both citations and practice seem to support it... Yes, it's the bombastic claims that seem off to me.

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16131 · February 28, 2012 at 8:07 PM

What a showoff with that formatting. I know you'll get this - there is quite bit of interesting stuff about cold thermogenesis out there. When I read about some biological bit I try to see what foods and environmental factors effect it. Cold exposure seems to have a positive effect on many things. BUT to say that if we choose not to soak in ice that we are going to face early death from neolithic disease seems a bit overboard.

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10176 · February 28, 2012 at 3:40 AM

I just read Christopher Hitchen's final literary essay in The Atlantic. It was about G.K.Chesterton. A major theme in his commentary was that Chesterton was frivolous most of the time, except when he was serious and sinister. A supposed master of paradox, yet incapable of seeing the paradox of the Vatican being complicit with Fascism in the 1930's, and wandering off in that direction because of his fervent Catholicism. A paradox that really mattered, yet he was oblivious to the danger. In Hitchen's final words "a minor but still important failure to meet a distinct moral challenge." I'm seeing a similar set of rabbit trails here, wandering away from ancestor lifestyle towards Xanadu.

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2175 · February 28, 2012 at 2:34 AM

I don't see the problem with having an opinion on things. The man is asking questions in case you don't see the ?'s after the stated. Every blog doesn't have to be backed with facts or scientific data, it's a blog (sort of like a diary of thoughts). All of this elitism is getting deep in here. If you don't agree, you simply don't need to agree #J.F.C.P. Where are the moderators?

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17103 · February 29, 2012 at 12:26 AM

Well, gee, what are these funny things at the end of his posts, before the comments. Could they be cites? Sure this one doesn't have many, but this one, where he starts to describe the cold protocol: http://jackkruse.com/the-evolution-of-the-leptin-rx/ has cites.

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 3:16 PM

George the moderators are part of the problem. I've had about 4 answers deleted because I called them out on the witch hunt they've created around Kruse.

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5135 · February 28, 2012 at 4:54 AM

I don't know. CW doctors may (or may not) be wrong, but I think they have a good faith belief that what they say is backed up by science. Now Read the post the OP links to. All personal revelation and ridiculous claims. Sherpas and Himalayan monks "routinely" live past 100? Pure BS. The map of India has a lot to teach us about health? What? His arguments boil down to "I'm a neurosurgeon" and "I lost a lot of weight". The man is a charlatan and the more he is associated with the paleo community the more he discredits us all.

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2175 · February 28, 2012 at 4:30 AM

agreed, but as Doctor House would say "Everybody lies, and you are all idiots, even me". LoL

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18635 · February 28, 2012 at 4:28 AM

trjones: can't really agree with you on the Dr. comment considering this community has no problem calling BS on the stuff that 95% of CW docs pull out their backside.

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5135 · February 28, 2012 at 4:04 AM

If you put a Dr. Before your name there's an implication that what you're saying isn't just some bullshit you pulled out of your backside. Asking for evidence to back up extraordinary claims isn't elitist, it's the minimum amount of due diligence a normal thinking person needs to do before evaluating what someone is claiming.

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10176 · February 28, 2012 at 2:57 AM

Questions designed to hypnotize....

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4111 · March 16, 2012 at 1:04 AM

I am open to the word! Blessed be thy icy nipples! As a result I know my telemeres are going to get longer! I will need to use both hands!

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572 · February 29, 2012 at 12:08 AM

I think he may be nutballs, but he's kinda entertaining. And I actually feel somewhat compelled to now take cold showers (dude, what if he's right?). Just sayin'.

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8979 · March 11, 2012 at 12:46 AM

submerging your face in water is the way to start the acclimation process. Read the whole CT series to see his recommendations, temps, etc.

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6418 · March 01, 2012 at 11:46 PM

Not a Doctor, I was reading on the comments to Kruse's article linked here and someone talked about how she submerged her face in ice water. From what I could tell, Kruse approved. I'm not taking any more cold showers and I'm not going to stick my face in a bowl of ice water, but I'm not fully sure what he's proposing.

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5232 · March 01, 2012 at 4:40 AM

Cold showers are very different than what jack is proposing. On the Kruse thermogenics thread I lay this out pretty clearly. Contrast hydrotherapy has it's place; long term cold exposure doesn't.

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11254 · February 29, 2012 at 8:30 PM

I don't think the shower thing will work. Seth Roberts tried that a few years ago and he actually started gaining weight. Dr. Kruse appears to be saying we need to get our skin cold (somewhere around 50-55 degrees) and keep it that way for 45min or so.

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24538 · February 29, 2012 at 9:35 AM

I've actually been having fun freezing my face off every few days for the slight face lift and brain reset button effect, but that's as far as I'm probably going to take this. I've enjoyed a cold plunge after the sauna, and trying to see how little clothing I can get away with playing outside in the winter for some time because that's just how I roll, but I don't see ice baths in my future.

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6418 · February 29, 2012 at 1:02 AM

I turned the shower to cold water only at the end of my shower today. I got cold.

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572 · February 29, 2012 at 12:08 AM

Oh yeah, and could he possibly write in a more confusing manner? Now there's a challenge.

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15226 · February 28, 2012 at 6:21 AM

Maybe a loose analogy, but these ideas are not any stranger than if someone 20 years ago said that calories in/calories out doesn't matter.

(Some people may argue that it still matters, but anyone with an understanding of uncoupling proteins will know it's far more nuanced than calories in/calories out)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22216339

"Uncoupling process plays an important role in modulating aging especially in muscular and nervous tissues, which are indeed very responsive to metabolic alterations and are very important in estimating health status and survival in the elderly."

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15226 · February 29, 2012 at 3:50 AM

Fair enough, but my point was that 1. Before the early 90s there was a knowledge deficit pertaining to the calories out side and 2. UCPs are modulated by cold and leptin and are very important for longevity.

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8879 · February 28, 2012 at 9:20 PM

Nobody ever said "calories out" is only the calories spent to do mechanical work in the body. Uncoupling is just another form of "calories out". Thermal energy is a First Law term in this context.

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40 · February 28, 2012 at 6:10 AM

All the people he states are cold adapted don't even eat low carb diets. Its hard to believe him when the people he states are his inspiration don't appear to eat zero carb diets.

http://www.everyculture.com/wc/Mauritania-to-Nigeria/Sherpas.html#b http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/08/13/the-michael-phelps-diet-dont-try-it-at-home/ http://batman.wikia.com/wiki/Mr._Freeze

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11254 · February 29, 2012 at 3:30 PM

He's pulling disparate things together. He thinks they will work synergistically.

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17103 · February 29, 2012 at 12:47 AM

Are Inuit adapted to the cold? Do they eat many carbs?

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450 · February 28, 2012 at 3:47 AM

I'm neutral about it; neither a fan or a hater of him.

Perhaps I'm more open to his ideas as I frequent MDA a bit more than PH, though visits are about equal lately. The difference in how Kruse is perceived on the two forums are almost polar opposite. Yes, the skeptics do exist on MDA but there are more open to his ideas than those here, in my opinion. There's a certain set of people on MDA who are trying his cold thermo protocol and seeing a break in their plateau.

I'd be open to trying any of those things since at this point I'd try anything, however since I live in Florida and an apartment that stays at around 80F due to roommates, an ice bath would be a pain in the butt to set up and maintain for any length of time ;)

HCG for me I wouldn't do (I'm only 20lbs away), but I'm at the point of restricting calories, back to a higher-protein breakfast and trying to ween myself into taking colder showers -- but that was even before this 'holy trinity' came about.

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78417 · February 29, 2012 at 2:29 AM

Yep MDA has my vote over PH anyday! This forum is a clique ruled by the "popular kids"--whoever has the most points wins! Speak the truth & hit a nerve & POOF you are deleted.

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8879 · February 28, 2012 at 9:23 PM

I dislike that term "hater" ... must one be a fan or a hater? I kinda like Jack and imagine if I were to have met him in a social context we'd hit it off just fine. I don't like his version of science and it's a pity that some in influential places are sponsoring him as the next best thing since sliced salmon.

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450 · February 28, 2012 at 11:04 AM

Yeah, 20lbs away from my goal.

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24538 · February 28, 2012 at 8:11 AM

Um, I believe to still lose, not total weight.

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4029 · February 28, 2012 at 4:20 AM

20 lbs? Are you missing a digit?

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20353 · February 28, 2012 at 2:38 AM

I like the restricted calories for longevity.

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10176 · February 28, 2012 at 12:58 PM

@loon I skimmed the link, got what the three elements are, and went back to washing dishes. I didn't spend much time on it.

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8979 · February 28, 2012 at 6:45 AM

thhq, you didn't even read it

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 2:57 AM

I don't. I value my libido too much. IF is OK though.

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10176 · February 28, 2012 at 2:56 AM

I'd like to substitute some meat for the HCG please.

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923 · February 28, 2012 at 2:39 PM

I think it's important not to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Some of Dr. K's theories concerning leptin and the leptin reset are valid and have helped some people who need it. However, this latest bit about cold adaptation seems out there. The discerning person will be able to sift through the information to glean the parts that may be relevant and discount the rest.

Personally, I'm not willing to take ice cold baths, drastically cut carbs forever, or eat reduced calories just to obtain a few more years of life, especially when there are no guarantees. Where's the enjoyment in living that way?

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11254 · February 29, 2012 at 8:50 PM

Despite trying to rid himself of all the influences of the neolithic age, he's still a doctor. This is the therapeutic model leaking in. He talks about seasonality, he's obviously drinking wine and eating dark chocolate, but he gets in a mode where he's thinking primarily about healing a patient, not what's a healthy paleo eater to do.

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5188 · February 28, 2012 at 8:04 PM

An ice bath isn't the end of the world. You adapt, that's the point. It doesn't ruin your ability to enjoy the rest of your life any more than giving up bread. Plenty of people will still tell you they'd sooner die than never eat a sandwich again though.

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2231 · February 28, 2012 at 4:21 PM

YES....i agree. there seems to be a huge fear of regaining obesity and possibly dying at some point...both are possible, and i think both are underlying fears in the 'trinity'. we are all going to die, and if i die 2 years earlier than i otherwise would i still wont regret never having sat in a deep freezer.

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296 · February 28, 2012 at 5:53 AM

I'm open to it - the blog article blew my mind. However, I'm unsure of how to put it all together. After losing 100 pounds, I HATE cold and have become best friends with my electric blanket. " I eat carbs in summer only" None at all? No veg?

How do we avoid the 99% of HGC out there that's a scam? Please tell me it doesn't have to be injected (shudder)

As to cron, what level of calories is optimal?

Most importantly: How do I become "cold adapted"? It would be worth it to Not be miserable below 65 f anymore!

Edit: I now want to do this but chasing his ideas from blog comments to message boards and back again, and trying to read through his stream-of-consciousness blog posts.....AAAARGH! I'm more confused than I started! Are there any LR pros on here that can boil down what he's talking about into some simple rules?

  1. I have 80 or 90 more pounds to lose. I'm 99% sure I'm a fat burner because
    • I can easily go 8 hours between meals and prefer to
    • I get a sort of sugar high off a rib-eye, but If i eat sugar the whole system goes haywire.

What he describes as ways of knowing leptin has been reset, I've had for a long time -clear skin, stronger hair and nails, different appetite

So he says No fruit if you're overweight, and no nightshades on the reset, then he says the reset for MOST people is 4-6 weeks.

Does he mean that most people lose all the weight they want to lose in that time, and those of us with more to lose have to stay on the reset until they hit goal weight?

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1074 · March 05, 2012 at 8:09 AM

you can eat vegs. just not safe starches on his reset. keep everything Paleo, not to be confused with Atkins aka bacon/sausages/processed meats. add cold therapy (cold exposure at least) and good sleep, you should lose weight. try combining Kruse's diet with a low reward version (Stephan Guyenet). I eat steak without seasoning, hardboiled eggs and plain boiled seafood. I don't spice things up as it makes it overly appetizing (more calories consumed)

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11254 · February 29, 2012 at 8:34 PM

Not the injections. He was giving the background as to why he decided a ketogenic paleo diet was ideal.

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8255 · February 29, 2012 at 6:47 PM

Yet it's part of his "Holy Trinity".

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11254 · February 29, 2012 at 3:33 PM

He does not recommend HCG!

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8255 · February 28, 2012 at 6:26 PM

I haven't given up my friend yet. I love my electric blankie. :)

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2231 · February 28, 2012 at 4:33 PM

YEAH, ME TOO. i use to live with an electric blanket or heating pad.

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 6:46 AM

Ah, I'm so glad I gave up my friend the electric blanket and happily have become pretty cold resistant

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871 · February 29, 2012 at 10:18 PM

can anyone simplify this???

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8979 · March 11, 2012 at 12:50 AM

eat to the seasons, mostly ketogenic paleo, learn to be cold-adapted, and that will turn on your thyroid, lengthen your telomeres, drop excess weight, increase stamina, improve sleep, improve the level of all hormones, and impress your SO.

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6418 · March 01, 2012 at 11:48 PM

So you're trying to slow it all down? Slow and cold, right? Not being facetious here, just clarifying.

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8255 · March 01, 2012 at 6:14 PM

“My candle burns at both ends; It will not last the night; But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends It gives a lovely light!” Edna St Vincent Millay. The big question I always have in Life Extension type research is, yeah, you live longer, but do you want to? How do you balance the fun of revving your car with the slowness of life extension?

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25467 · March 01, 2012 at 1:18 PM

(modern life and food, stress) to live…….our cells and organs all are controlled by chemical clocks……..the faster you run the car, the faster forward your clocks run in every cell until you run out of back up parts (stem cells) or of time…….(death).The more carbs you eat……the faster the clocks run. The more fats you use the slower the clocks run. Time is relative to mammalian biology 100% of the time. Biology, like physics, is all relative to time.

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25467 · March 01, 2012 at 1:17 PM

Human evolution is faster than all other species because of Factor X……..this means that hominids epigenetics is super fast as well……if you fully understand my last post, you will get that the optimal diet and environment is required for ultimate health. That is a ketogenic cold environment………If you are a modern day hominid, you still have your old engine in your new Ferrari exterior. The car looks sweet but it does not run well long term when you put cheap gas in it, while running it wide open……..this is what you are doing by endurance cycling. You are asking your metabolism to run faster

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8255 · February 29, 2012 at 10:56 PM

Freeze your buns off, lose oodles of fat. Need any simpler? :)

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6418 · February 29, 2012 at 10:49 PM

Which part are you seeking clarification on?

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 5:42 AM

Seriously??? Of all the blogs I've checked out this one most resembles Jr. High. Who are ANY of you people to judge others the way you do? I appreciate Nance & those who are willing to be open-minded. I have benefited from Dr. Kruse and I'm intelligent enough to see beyond some typos. Hey it happens to me too when I'm passionate about a subject and typing quickly. So that's your beef? Really?? Are you absolutely certain that this guy is a quack? It's all your opinion. I've noticed a lot of you who may have lots of votes & badges or whatever but your maturity level is that of a 12 year old. My friend who turned me on to Paleo warned me to stay away from Paleohacks & I totally get it now. I appreciate a lot of the questions but don't appreciate the negativity & know-it-all attitude of many of you who nit pick a person to death.

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 3:08 PM

I question EVERYTHING! But obviously when my view differs from yours I get deleted. I've had 4 responses deleted so far. Is this how it works here?

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78417 · February 28, 2012 at 2:51 PM

I question EVERYTHING!! I just don't feel the need to crucify other human beings for having a differing opinion. I'm confident enough in my own beliefs that I don't have to try convert others to my way of thinking. And now I see how this site works. If someone doesn't agree with you they delete your question. Really??? Grow up! It seems the "children" who don't get their way go after everyone else. So you didn't get picked for the AHS??? Get over it!!! So you better bash everyone else who did. Emotional immaturity at its best!

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 6:47 AM

So your Dr. Kruse's ideal audience. Don't question things man, that's just mean! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsogswrH6ck

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56606 · February 28, 2012 at 6:46 AM

Yeah, well, that's just like, uh, your opinion man. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsogswrH6ck

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169 · May 11, 2012 at 4:16 AM

Who cares what Kruse says? I'd rather listen to Tony the Tiger give nutritional advice.

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1163 · May 11, 2012 at 2:45 AM

Give him a break,im sick of reading questions based on your weird obsession with Mr Kruse.

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162 · May 11, 2012 at 2:04 AM

I am open to it. I read the HOLY TRINITY blog post today - watched his TEDx speech yesterday and tried the face dunk a couple times. I am willing to try the ketogenic diet and the dunking/segue to cold baths for 30 days and see.

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78417 · March 06, 2012 at 4:02 AM

Jack now has a video out of him cooking recipes from his new amazing breakthrough diet

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254 · February 29, 2012 at 10:11 PM

Meow....Meow. Maybe y'all need to take cold baths to keep the Quilt from getting under your skin.

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659 · February 28, 2012 at 7:38 PM

So many hater's. I think he may be onto something great. Just my 2 cents.

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0 · February 28, 2012 at 2:08 PM

LOFL at this. The guy is putting himself up there with all sorts of historical greats. Awesome.

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