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Thoughts on Dr. Jack Kruse? (aka The Quilt)

by 7300 · October 07, 2012 at 07:37 PM

---------THIRD PARTY EDIT------------
The below hack is old stuff. It's interesting background from the spring of 2011, but you might want to read these more current posts:
What’s the deal with PaleoHacks, Dr. Kruse and the FBI?
Richard's blog post about Jack's latest events
Jack's blog post on CT12
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BACKGROUND

There was a paleohacks thread yesterday about how much we should trust various sources of information. We’re lucky to have some very smart people posting interesting information on paleohacks, such as Ron Rosedale, Cate Shanahan, and The Quilt.

Lately there have been many posts about people having positive results with The Quilt's Leptin Rx. The science is complex, but it definitely piqued my curiosity. As an information junkie, I decided to scan through what the Internet could tell me about The Quilt and his ideas.

I found some very positive things, but several fairly disturbing things as well. Please excuse this extremely lengthy hack, but I do believe it is of value.

POSITIVES

Let me start by saying that it's clear Jack has some very positive things to contribute to the paleosphere:
- Quilt is a neurosurgeon. Thus, he definitely knows science. Has a strong grasp of several fields, from cell-level to organ-level.
- Quilt gives free advice and will personally answer your questions. Very cool for a busy surgeon.
- Those who follow his protocol appear to be having success.
- The guy can think out of the box. He is curious about all aspects of health. He lost a bunch of weight, and thus walks the walk in addition to talking the talk.
- Quilt can be both serious and funny. See Halloween 2011(NSFW/NSFL) version of Quilt. He is a longstanding and active member of paleohacks who often provides interesting viewpoints.

NEGATIVES

In looking into his writings further though, I found some disturbing trends. Perhaps I am over reacting? Misinterpreting?

Quilt on cancer reduction through nipple massages
Quilt: "nipple massage will reduce your risk of breast CA by 50% because of the sensitivity to oxytocin....."

Quilt on MUFAs Quilt: "Mufa's are more sensitive to oxidation. This is why avocado brown so fast when cut. Unstable."
Matthew: "The browning of avocados has nothing to do with mono-unsaturated fatty acids. It is an enzymatic reaction cross-linking phenolic compounds to protect the damaged fruit against microbes."
Kamal: "'Tis true. The culprit is exposed enzymes, not fatty acid oxidation. You can't just go around making stuff up to prove your points. Well, technically you can."
(Current lipid biochemistry indicates that MuFA are very stable...This fact is widely accepted)

Quilt on Mindfulness
Paleohacks user Kamal calls out Quilt for making up statistics:
Quilt: "Mindfulness has shown 56% reduction in cancer recurrence.Show me one drug that even comes close to that number?
Kamal: "Ummm...no. Most of the trial research was done here in Boston at MGH, UMass, and Beth Israel. Neither meta-analyses nor individual trials show a 56% reduction. During the summer that I interned at the Benson-Henry Institute for Mind-Body Medicine, no one (not even the venerable Dr. Benson) threw around those numbers. I'd ask you to cite your sources, but that does not appear to be your modus operandi."
Kamal: "Yesterday, I saw a claim he made about mindfulness reducing cancer recurrence by 56%. Luckily, I had an internship at the biggest mindfulness research center in the country a few years ago, and knew he was wrong. But who is going to do "due diligence" just to make sure that someone isn't making stuff up?"

Just a few of Quilt's factual errors (overstatements, uninformed speculation, possible plagiarism)

Quilt says, "My principles are based around optimizing life through science not opinion”, though responses often appear to be his opinion rather than substantiated or cited scientific (fact/reasoning).
The following examples (taken from paleohacks) are used to illustrate various errors of fact, faulty reasoning, uninformed speculation and possible plagiarism. Quilt: "Leptin control [sic] fat disposition in body parts. This is why women have curves and men dont. Moreover, people with dosordered leptin function have major body comp and fat deposit issues. See any HIV patient as a great example of the other side of this coin."
akd: "Jesus, lipodystrophy is a side effect from some antiretroviral drugs used to manage HIV infections. not everyone who takes antiretrovirals gets it. its not a function fo the HIV infection, and looking up the cause i dont see the word "leptin" anywhere.

RG73, medical student and paleohacks participant questions a statement made by The Quilt
Quilt: "Cross country running or skiing plus paleo is an oxymoron and might eventually kill you via apoptosis or senescence which ever your programmed for first".......I'll pass"
RG73: "Citation that running shortens telomeres please? Running is going to cause apoptosis? Seriously? That makes zero evolutionary sense. Mitochondria work against our telomeres? Separate genomes. What is the biological mechanism? Werner et al. 2008, Werner et al. 2009, Puterman et al. 2010, LaRocca et al. 2010. I mean I could go on with this all day."

ZZ: "Per what I've read on Whole Health Source and PaNu sites, we want to keep PUFA <= 4%."
Quilt: "This number comes from Mary Enig and truthfully no one knows if it is true."
Jay: "The 4% figure does not come from Mary Enig. It comes from real research done by Lands..."

Quilt possibly making up stuff about gelatin:
Quilt: "All gelatin that is commercially produced is loaded with excitotoxins. So i would never eat it. If you make your own with bone broth that is awesome."
Kamal: "Please explain how home made bone broth (producing gelatin) is different than gelatin made from pig skin and powdered in amino acid profile. Both have glutamine. Most (paleo) people get the regular, unhydrolyzed gelatin."
Jay: "QUILT, this is just mechanistic speculation. Moreover, it doesn't even seem well-founded."
Matthew: "Interesting fact: A breakfast made up beef containing 50 grams of protein can contain 10 grams of glutamate. In contrast 10 grams of gelatin contains only 0.5 grams of glutamate."
One of many instances of Quilt posting something but not acknowledging that the source is another website, not him (mild, perhaps unintentional "borrowing" of ideas)...

Matthew: "By the way, have the LEF been pinching your work? I realise the above quote is from your blog. If you look under the Vitamin K heading at paragraph 37-38 on this page it looks quite similar to the last six lines above..."

Quilt willy-nilly attacks other paleo gurus even when they have never heard of Quilt. See here for Kurt Harris getting pissed off by Quilt...
Dr. Kruse: "While i like both of these guys, neither one has any clinical experience treating cancer patients. They read literature. When kurt was a practicing doc he spent time in a dark room with films not patients."
Kurt Harris MD: "I suppose referring to my by my Christian name when I have never met you supports the impression you know a single thing about my clinical practice or career.You don't. I have had varied and intimate contact with patients doing interventional radiology, including neurointerventional for over 25 years. For 6 years I performed a person consultation with all of my patients at my own private imaging center - that would be about 12,000 in-person patient encounters. This is where I started treating patients with my diet, through this local contact. And I continue to do it locally and in internet consultation, even if you don't know it because I am not as loud about it as some...I am not clear on what being an oncologist has to do with anything, but you are no more of an oncologist than I am. You are a dentist and neurosurgeon. Try sticking to your crackpot theorizing rather than knocking a radiologist and physicist for the "madness" of thinking you might not die if you eat a potato...."

Quilt sometimes predicts that eating things he doesn’t like will kill you, making erroneous blanket statements...
ROB: “hadn't had dairy in close to 10 months and finally binged on close to 400 grams of sour cream daily for three days, and I feel great.”
Quilt: “I say eat it.......It will keep me busy down the road...Dairy equal insulin and eventually insulin leads to death. The great circle of life encapsulated.”
Lee: “But doc...full fat, heavy cream for instance, doesnt spike insulin, does it?”
Ikco: “Dairy isn't dairy. Source and type matter enormously. And scare tactics are just lame.”

So I’m looking for some input. Given the type of information I found above, how should I approach the Quilt’s ideas? Sorry if the post sounded antagonistic, but these are simply the facts that I found using a google search and a paleohacks search. I am genuinely interested in what people’s views are on this. Quilt is providing a potentially useful and absolutely free source of information, but I want to know how much I can trust that information, given what I found above (which presumably is just a small slice of what’s out there).

EDIT & NOTE BY PATRIK: I DON'T THINK IS AN APPROPRIATE TOPIC FOR PALEOHACKS GIVEN ITS EMOTIONAL & SUBJECTIVE NATURE. I WILL LEAVE THIS THREAD UP FOR NOW BUT DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A PILE-ON HATE-FEST AGAINST THE QUILT. PLEASE WATCH YOUR EMOTION & LANGUAGE & DON'T BE MEAN. :)

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64 Replies

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5520 · November 01, 2011 at 11:04 PM

Blanket statements and poor biochemistry aside, I cannot stand his poor grammar and lack of punctuation on this site. Most of the time his answers look like they were written by a 3rd grader.

I'm expecting to be down voted by his all too faithful followers but as you pointed out, I'm not the only person he bothers.

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24343 · November 01, 2011 at 11:20 PM

I can't really answer, because of the whole moderator thing and my past arguments with Quilt.

But I will say that Quilt is very very knowledgeable, and I appreciate his willingness to post free information in an effort to improve people's health.

One just has to be fully informed when evaluating the advice of anyone on the internet, and this is no exception.

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.”
— Buddha

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5917 · November 03, 2011 at 02:05 AM

Jack, I apologize. Apparently on March 15, after you commented on Facebook on one of my posts, I did ask you if you would contribute a guest post fleshing out some claims you had made that surprised me. On March 21 you made the statement on PaleoHacks that I had invited you to do a guest post. When, around May or June, someone from PaleoHacks asked me if it was true, I had totally forgotten that exchange and said I hadn't. Just a loss of memory on my part.

In any case I was wrong, your statement was not false, and I apologize for thinking and saying that it was.

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15120 · November 01, 2011 at 11:25 PM

you know, ive been around here long enough that i have seen the quilt really dig himself into a few holes. ive never appreciated the tone that he uses with people when they question him. "just look it up," is not an acceptable answer when someone asks you to clarify a statement you make. it just speaks to his character in a way that i dont appreciate. i didnt know about most of this stuff here in the question, though i remember the couple of run ins that im mentioned in. seeing it all together is not totally shocking, i have to say. ive sort of long ago dismissed what he has to say since he is such a poor communicator. im also highly suspicious of anyone who gives medical advice over the interwebs. its just not ethical, and shows a lack of judgement.

i cant speak to his science, since that is not where my strengths lay but again ive seen him caught in enough tight spots that im confident that i can get much better information elsewhere.

besides, i find the relationship advice he offers to be borderline abusive. since that is where my strengths lay, i think ill follow my intuition and get my science elsewhere.

that said, im not a fan of gurus anyway. like rose, i follow my body and listen to my intuition. i never depend on information from just one source so when someone like the quilt makes a claim that i cannot verify elsewhere, its automatically dismissed. after three strikes, i stop listening. this is why i love wolf, harris, and sisson so much though. they are always seeking and striving and growing and citing. its hard work convincing people youre right, as it should be.

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5002 · November 02, 2011 at 12:29 AM

I take issue with the way that people are responding to the Quilt. I'd like to defend him a bit.

Kruse is the type of thinker who consumes large amounts of information and then synthesizes it into a similarly large system. When he writes he is trying to bring out all of the connections that are buzzing in his head. Kruse's emphasis - as a writer - is usually on seeing everything come together, and not necessarily on providing what most of us would consider a polished, professional statement. Further, he is a very busy person who wants to help others, so the practical compromise he accepts is that his comments will be made in haste, with poor grammar, minor errors, and various moments when his tone could be misconstrued as rude or dismissive.

It is true that Dr K is an opinionated person with an aggressive, idiosyncratic sense of humor that sometimes gets him in trouble with some types of readers. But I think that he considers it an acceptable tradeoff to offend this subset of readers if it allows him to help others achieve their health goals.

So far I've talked mostly about Kruse's style, now I'd like to shift some to his content (the two are interrelated).

To begin, I'll just say that I really value Kruse's contributions to the paleo discussion. He seems to pour through more of the scientific literature than anyone else. His attempt to synthesize this literature is also the most ambitious I've seen. Most of the information he conveys is also backed up by clinical experience, so it's not just crackpot theorizing. Rather, it's informed speculation plus experimentation; and that is pretty much what science is. Kruse's background or journey - from dentistry to neurosurgery to optimal nutrition - also gives him a unique vantage point that, to my knowledge, has no parallel in this community.

Admittedly, Kruse's communication skills are not as strong or polished as they could be. His readers have to dig around his articles, make some connections on their own, read through the comments, etc. He makes readers do more work than any other science-literate blogger of which I'm aware. What I've found, however, is that in time most of it actually does come together. When Kruse makes a claim on his blog, or here on Paleohacks, that seems unwarranted and without basis, eventually the explanation and evidence on which it is based comes to light.

As for the guru issue, I'm not one to follow gurus. I follow ideas, and try to take in the ideas that sound the most original, creative, and comprehensive. On this front, it is hard to argue against what Kruse has to offer.

Say what you want about his style or personality, but you can't say that the Quilt's heart isn't in the right place. He obviously spends a great deal of his time contributing to this site and his blog. Dr K answers almost everybody's questions and comments, and he is always game for a debate. Granted, he is not as interested in providing citations as some of us would like him to be, but it is also true that, intellectually, those are the least interesting sorts of requests. When ideas and concepts are at stake, Dr K has been very dynamic, informative, and original.

I don't mind the mistakes here and there. Most people who - like me - work in academia and research know how important making mistakes is to achieving substantial progress. The big picture matters far more than whether or not a few details were mistaken along the way. This is true broadly, and it is especially true in the context of Paleohacks comments. Most of us are not in a rush to convey information that fits into a larger system that is being unveiled in pieces as it comes together before our eyes. Whether Dr K is on the right track or not, this is what he is doing, and I think that it makes sense for all of us who understand this to make special allowances because of it.

As Kruse likes to point out, he is a big boy, so criticize him all you want. He can take it. But let's not give him the wrong idea. Kruse may be doing something special. So far, I think it is pretty impressive, and I want to encourage him to keep pushing forward, minor details and pleasantries be damned.

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2746 · November 01, 2011 at 11:18 PM

this guy says things that are factually wrong and talks down about legitimate science way too much. his advice might work for you and make you healthier - after all, as far as I know he sticks to the paleo framework to some level of strictness, right? but I would take everything he says with a grain of salt. Working in the field doesnt mean he's always got the science down if he's not going to be conscientious about checking sources and facts before he posts and gives advice. MDs are not superhuman. Also, as someone who invokes his authority as an MD almost constantly, I question the ethics of his posts where he does give medical advice without knowing the patient or often having a basis for making recommendations. He should probably be careful about that.

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3861 · November 02, 2011 at 03:13 AM

A point for any of his followers to keep in mind is that a clinician is not necessarily a trained scientist.

Despite his medical knowledge, his results seem to me to be N=1 at this point, just like the rest of us. He's made amazing personal progress with his health and fitness and that's to be respected. Like many of us, he has a great story about regaining his well-being through paleo.

However, I find it hard to believe that he has had sufficient time to collect the clinical data necessary to support his theories; like many of us, he hasn't been paleo for a long time. A careful clinician will not jump to sweeping conclusions based on a few patients, or just his own results. Blanket statements, erroneous cites, and inchoate postings are not solidifying his position.

Given sufficient and rigorous investigation, some of his ideas could prove to be valid while others go to the dustbin. His leptin prescription does seem to be helping some people based on the testimonials here, and he has a strong passion for all things paleo. He's full of ideas and contributes a lot here, but a clear delineation between fact and speculation when making connections between ideas in the medical and academic literature would be helpful and on the level.

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13680 · November 01, 2011 at 11:46 PM

Mari,

I do not read this as antagonistic at all. The fact that you have presented both positives and negatives was very thoughtful of you. This is a VERY tough question and even tougher to answer fairly. Since it seems really appropriate, I am going to reference my response to the question from Matthew yesterday -

We could go on and on about how someone earns our trust and becomes a "guru" that we rely upon (e.g. formal training, letters before/after their name, personal life transformation story, etc). Peter at Hyperlipid says "no gurus". However my take is that there are gurus, but it is not a tenured position. It needs to be continually earned (or at least not lost).

Perhaps it will be more efficient "via negativa" to answer this question

  • Has he/she ever blatantly lied or falsified information?
  • Does the person make bold claims absent supporting information? I am not talking about cites for every last claim, but at least controversial ones.
  • Does he/she have a history of being litigious on blogs and forums with dissenting views?
  • Is he/she unwilling to consider alternate points of view?
  • Does he/she imply omniscience rather than acknowledging limitations of his/her knowledge?
  • Does the person engage in ad hominem attacks?
  • Does the person have an incoherent writing style? Genius that no one else can comprehend is not very useful.
  • Is the person emotionally unstable? This might seem odd but it is difficult to trust someone, even versed in science, that arguably needs to be institutionalized, or at least get some intensive therapy
  • Is the person respected by his peers? This is not synonymous with complete agreement on all points

I could go on. This is not the be all / end all list, just an off the cuff response to the question. Also, this is obviously not a black-white assessment - there are many shades of grey. But if a person fails enough of the questions, then one must consider the possibility that this person is doing more harm than good for our community.

Also, I do NOT think the argument "well, a lot of people have gotten healthier following his/her advice" holds water. People have gotten healthier following Ornish and Oz also. Correlation is not causation

I don't think it is a secret that I have not always seen eye to eye with Quilt. But I do agree with the positives you have cited and I have nothing against him as an individual. To the extent that you have merely copied these quotes from previous posts/blogs, I have to assume that the veracity of these items are not questionable. However, I think the "facts" you have a presented definitely are cause for concern, particularly the excerpts of distortions and comments Quilt has made. The information you have presented is particularly troublesome because I know there are many new and impressionable members of PH community that need to be mindful of the advice they are receiving.

Let's face it, Quilt has become a significant member of the Paleo community, and with that comes responsibility on his part, dare I say some level of accountability - not simply as a blogger but as an MD and someone that could influence many in a positive way.

The bottom line to me is that there are a many paths forward. So will he,

  1. Not dismiss this post and take the time to address what you've raised in a thoughtful manner analogous to the effort you have taken? And perhaps use it as opportunity for self improvement and growth?
  2. Tell people to f*ck off because he has a following now and doesn't give two sh|ts what others think because he has achieved his objectives in the blogosphere
  3. Love every minute of it!
  4. None of the above

I eagerly await his response. Thanks for posting this question. I hope some day I grow up to be as mature as you (not likely).

JarJaravind, out...

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5105 · November 01, 2011 at 11:08 PM

There is a misplaced tone of aggressiveness in a lot of what he said, and the comments about Kurt Harris' practice were definitely out of line and frankly, jerky. In my experience these are not the hallmarks of a very profound mind.

I also have a difficult time with unfounded, blanket, black and white statements.

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8777 · November 02, 2011 at 12:24 PM

The super-annoying spelling/grammar issues aside, my problems with Kruse are:

(1) Science w/o Substantiation:

When someone says "My principles are based around optimizing life through science not opinion”, then they better be prepared to put up or shut up! Quilt is responsible (for better or worse depending on the Hacker - grin) for my return to PH because I asked him on his blog to substantiate a claim that Mg deficiency ALWAYS precedes IR. That is a pretty bold statement. A statement like that implies that there is overwhelming evidence in the peer review literature to support it. A consensus if you will. When I asked him, he first sent me to {paraphrase} 'any biochem text ever published'. Huh? If this is really common knowledge at the textbook level, he should at least have a page number to cite, no? I've searched my PDF copy of G&H Textbook of Medical Physiology and found nothing. Next he sent me to a thread here where others listed a bunch of citations. Lots of info out there linking Mg and IR, but none of the cites I had time to look into further supported the claim.

Bottom line: Kruse's broad authoritative statements lack substantiation most of the time. Instead of providing the information, he would rather send his readers off on wild goose chases. Paleo as those may be, that is not courteous behavior. If your claims are backed by science you've read, referencing the relevant citations should be part of the initial presentation of said claims. Absent that, one should at least be prepared to provide the support when asked.

(2) Consistency:

Jack and I got off to a bad start on my blog. Yeah, I'm not the most politically correct tactful blogger out there, but I call them as I see them. Jack rhymes with the noise a duck makes, and having read about nipple massages and such this guy came off immediately as one to me. Still, at the time many were doing his plan and discussing him over at Jimmy's LLVLC forum. I called him the LLVLC "flavor of the month". Jack took exception to that in my comments saying that he was not low carb and folks at AHS were even shocked by his carb consumption. OK. But then I listened to his interview with Jimmy and read some comments on his blog and ... darnit ... he's supporting Taubes and telling his readers that VLC is what works for him. I asked again in his comments.(#) I got a rude reply. I don't care if he's LC, HC, no C, hyper C. I don't care if he cycles weekly or seasonally, but be consistent! (#Note: I tried to discuss this with him as CarbSane but I was apparently banned from comments and my posts disappeared. So I tested another ID/email and those went to moderation. He let through one comment by me posting as LCC and responded. I tried to respond as CarbSane ... that's in perpetual moderation apparently).

(3) Made Up Words

I initially thought that levee was a typo and he was instead talking about levels. But I was wrong. It's unnecessarily confusing.

(4) WTF Equations????

His Leptin Reset post ends with this:

(QUILT SURVIVABILITY) = (Total Energy – Growth and immunity expense) X (RESOURCES) X (efficiency) X (awareness of our environment)

Stated in levee form where: Cell longevity = LS – IGF-1 + immunity X Food Quality X leakiness of Mitochondria X environmental cues

  1. I have no freakin' clue what to make of such equations!
  2. Is IGF-1 the bad guy?

Point 2 is a biggie b/c PROTEIN stimulates IGF-1. Last I checked his whole plan begins with frontloading a BAHPB. I've asked him about IGF-1 and what stimulates it. He emailed me a paper. If we're talking insulin resistance, IGF-1 is an insulin sensitizer. The work of Gannon & Nuttal in this regard, that I blogged on in The LoBAG Diets for treatment of Type II Diabetes and IGF-I, discusses this.

(5) The "Out"

All anomalies can be explained by whether or not you're leptin sensitive or resistant. If his plan doesn't work, you were obviously already LS. If you have any problem in life, you're definitely LR. Melissa's 100 yr carb eating granny? Must be LS. John Q Pudgy? He's LR. Anyone can make up any old sort of crap when you can simply dismiss what doesn't fit the model with such flippant generalizations.

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18236 · November 02, 2011 at 05:56 PM

As Kamal (Patrik) added, this thread is borderline, specifically because we don't want to participate or even encourage mean spirited ad hominem attacks on character merely for the sake of vulture feeding.

That aside, Dr K has made enough of a wave in the Paleo community, and has created enough of a name for himself, that I think a thread that pointedly discusses his ideas and claims is warranted, and perhaps even necessary at this point. Mari (love this girl) has taken great care to point out both sides from a relatively objective vantage point... positives and negatives. Some answers here are very well articulated and balanced, and some are not. I'll leave that at that.

Dr K (aka The Quilt) came onto the Paleo scene in a flurry, making bold claims and ruffling feathers right out of the gate. That can work against him or work for him depending on how it unfolds. I think both are true. In the very beginning, many people completely 100% did not believe that he was a real Doc. (I am talking specifically about people who made such comments, not at all those who merely 'questioned' his authenticity.) Well, he is a real Doc, with a live website with pictures and a Bio with detailed certification claims.

For better or for worse, Dr K has actually influenced me enough to make certain specific choices regarding my lab numbers and concerns about my health.

  1. I took his advice about guar gum and ordered some. I've taken 3 small doses in total. All 3 times, it has given me a splitting migraine headache and quite honestly made me feel like total garbage. Anyone who needs 2 bottles of pure guar gum powder... just lemme know. lol.

  2. I have also purchased Vitamin K2 MK4 5,000 mcg and take it daily.

  3. I have an appt today in 4 hours from now to give blood for the first time per his (and several others actually) recommendations to reduce my iron stores.

You see.. my actions listed above are EXACTLY why this thread and Matt's is important. In this digital age of readily available interconnectedness with such an army of online so called "experts", people are open to considering the advice of the gurus because of the disappointing approach taken by conventional medicine Docs. As a community, it is imperative that we fact check and carefully consider the information with discernment.

His grammar? It doesn't bother me as much as it bothers others, but since I am looking at this from a broader perspective, I would say that he could use some help here. A proofer. A spell-check. A grammar check. Whatever. BUT!! As Eric and others have mentioned, Dr K uses multiple resources to post, including wireless devices and such when he is out and about. On one hand, we could shrug it off and say who cares. On the other, is it really that difficult to spell check for a moment? The computer will do it for you. Is it really so important to get the article published immediately moments before picking up a scalpel!!?? In my opinion… No. I think taking several minutes to spell check, grammar check, and re-read and possibly have someone else read through it would be more beneficial than hastily publishing poorly constructed articles that frustrate your own readers.

False Claims and Statistics - Yah this is a weird one. I think it's pretty established by now that he does this. We've all tried to call him out on it, but he just kinda moves forward. I think he just puts so much info out there, that by default he's gonna get tangled up at times. But that's no excuse. Everyone makes little blunders here and there. No worries on that, but when it's chronic, people notice.

Aggressive and (at times) flippant tone - I take issue with this, and I've been plenty vocal about it. For the most part, I enjoy the Doc. But I do not enjoy nor do I support his tone toward people at times. That's largely subjective, because many people do not like Dr Harris's tone either. But personally speaking, Dr Kruse has antagonized me about my own health situation and it doesn't speak well to me at all. I too spend a great deal of time researching health and wellness from a Paleo perspective and am trying with all my might to figure out what's going on with me. I've got loads of well meaning, highly intelligent, and well studied folks giving me "advice" over the internet with the best intent in mind. From Chris Masterjohn to Dr Davis to Dr Ayers and even PaleoHackers like Travis Culp and so many others. But for some reason, Dr K thinks that's it's incredibly clear that his advice is the only advice, and makes derogatory remarks about how I need to "take it more seriously" and "when you are frustrated enough" and "it's easy to see what to do... the question is do you have the willpower" or whatever (I'm paraphrasing generalizations btw.. not quoting). Simply put, that's condescending and unprofessional. I value information and help, especially since my own doctors are so far off base that I have to turn to the internet for better info. But anyone who unnecessarily speaks down to others loses a percentage of my respect for them.

But!! Dr K spends a great deal of his time researching/testing his ideas about health and wellness, and particularly from a Paleo perpsective. He is a big picture thinker. He is very knowledgeable about human anatomy and the science-y biochemistry behind it. And He PROMOTES Paleo, and that folks, is valuable. Some might see his claims and ideas as more of a liability to Paleo than an asset, and (with all considerations in mind), I disagree. My stance on this is almost exactly that of Eric's. Personally I feel that Dr K is a net positive (as others have pointed out).

Conclusion: Given a multiple choice to keep him around or lose him, I’d keep him around and trust the community to put his ideas and claims into a refiner's fire. Let’s let PaleoHacks be the resource it’s intended to be and hack away at his ideas. He even welcomes that himself, which is great.

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4337 · November 02, 2011 at 12:17 AM

He is confident. Unfortunately, he is also often wrong. That's a bad combination. I don't trust anything he says.

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2119 · November 02, 2011 at 12:51 AM

i dont believe in leptin resistance, thus i quit reading the quilt after he made the DANGEROUS assertion that someone with hypothalamic amenorrhea is LR...@$$ backwards my friend. when it comes to eating disorders he would do himself a favor NOT to give advice or talk about them period., i wrote this rant over at MDA yesterday:

that reset BS has nothing to do with leptin... protein, and that much, is gonna cause any and everyone to eat less period. no snacking is just another dieting antic to get you to eat less. coconut oil is BS as well, it works for a couple days, after that its NOS, not gonna work.25 carbs...again its a dieting antic.

what does ANYTHING about the 'reset' have to do with leptin...NOTHING. leptin is an evolutionary female based hormone, meaning it is only really important in the context of a female, and in her reproductive years. any reading on the hormone itself shhhhould lead everyone to that conclusion. males can have low leptin, if youre a dieting male it is expected, duh. lose fat=lose leptin....YOUR NOT becoming resistant to it, you just lose it as you lose fat! your not resistant to leptin when your fat either, you have a ton. i dont understand how people dont understand this...

i can also quote this same leptin genius saying 'insulin equals death'....now again, this is impossible. spiking your insulin means your body is shuttling off nutrients/aminos- PERIOD. if you eat sh*t that is supposed to spike insulin but doesnt have the nutrients to back it up(SAD food) then again, duh, your gonna have continuously high insulin b/c your body is waiting for nutrients that aint coming.

if there is ANY truth to dr kruse's stuff, it's that he has it a$$ backwards. what needs to be 'studied' is the brain's insensitivity to dopamine(i swear if someone says this is b/c of leptin resistance.....lol). leptin alters dopamine, i know. but it is the dopamine deficiency that was first. this causes the weight to climb uncontrollably, the hormones to whack out, the insulin to go haywire, the leptin to f-up, the lazy feeling, adrenal fatigue whatever it is...this same dopamine problem leads also to fat burning problems. same reason certain people given depression meds gain weight...it blocks their dopamine receptors. same reason exsmokers gain weight and heroin addicts sudden get fat. anything that does this leads to the body signaling starvation. low leptin leads to dopamine problems...again, NOTHING about this is related to being resistant to leptin in anyway...

insulin is a body fat signal leptin is a body fat signal

to me, low dopamine should be present, along with low leptin on a ketogenic diet. if the body is functioning correctly, this diet in a roundabout way signals 'starvation' i.e, hibernation. if this didnt happen, how would early man have survived hibernation, the responses NEEDED to happen. so, one on a prolonged VLC diet is going to have downgraded dopamine receptors(but a plus, they should be more sensitive), part of the reason a change in diet leads to weight gain and people inevitably feel they will keep gaining. Dr kruse's MASSIVE LIST of testing and supplements will keep your brain high enough to possibly combat some stuff, but i for one am not shoving 283476510354 lbs of pills in my body, ever. period.

NEITHER leptin or insulin will function correctly with a dopamine problem. this is where stephen DOES have some ground in his 'food reward' stuff, i just think he is presenting it wrong. i dont think obesity is a brain disease like he does. its still not all about the brain, studies show insulin resistant muscles ALSO have insulin resistant brains- this, i am guessing is a factor/result of mitochondrial malfunctioning(which i am still reading about). however, if your brain reads low leptin(deficent) then so will your CNS, your liver, your muscles...you have leptin receptors all over your body(and for females the one's on the ovaries are where we get sh*tted on- amenorrhea etc..)

also, leptin is key to muscle breakdown and growth. if youre someone trying to gain muscle and eating lbs of protein with no result, your low on leptin. it factors into protein synthesis/breakdown and IGF.

dr kruse reminds me of Tabues but instead of insulin it is leptin.

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3652 · November 02, 2011 at 06:06 AM

I like the positive sentiments that are expressed here. I agree with those who have said that no one is perfect because in all of Quilt's responses that I've been lucky to read or come across (he is almot as prolific as Travis Culp or Eva) he appears intent on not only helping but in clarifying complicated health topics. The negativity expressed I believe is not warranted.

RE Paul Jaminent, in Quilt's defense, I bet he expressed it incorrectly in that he meant Jimmy Moore reqested a writeup (for a response to Paul Jaminent). Just a guess as Jimmy requested this from many. He's a cowboy fur sure and IMHO a good guy. I'd trust my Dad's health to Dr.K and my Dada is a surgeon!

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10194 · November 02, 2011 at 05:42 AM

Some things to remember about the Quilt (and humans in general) ---

0) I have had my differences with The Quilt -- and have had to suspend him from PaleoHacks. But, generally speaking, his intent is to help people --- he is a net benefit for PaleoHacks.

1) No one is perfect.

2) We're all wrong to some degree.

[See my thoughts on this here: http://us1.campaign-archive2.com/?u=48c5aee421576df1d6f5c8e45&id=7740a2bd8f]

3) The Quilt would benefit from doing better marketing & better writing, and less emotion.

UPDATE: WITH MY EXCHANGE WITH THE QUILT BELOW IN THE COMMENTS, MAYBE I COMMENTED TOO SOON.

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3926 · November 01, 2011 at 11:15 PM

I appreciate what he has to say because he makes me think outside the box and he makes me challenge the status quo, as well as my own thought process. I do not take anything anyone says on this forum as gospel or as applying to everyone in every situation, all the time; so he doesn't bother me in the least. I don't mind his faults, as I happen to have many of my own.

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77322 · November 02, 2011 at 01:15 PM

I can't even read all this crap.

Some people seriously have to work on their understanding of life, universe and everything else. The fact that most points got the Nutritionist who talks about the "grammar issues" puts this entire thread on the pre-kindergarten level.

Who cares anyway, Quilt is not here to kill you or torture you or play Megamind but to share his insights and probably to learn about new things himself. Does he makes mistakes and use unchecked information ? Sure, who doesn't. Does he self promote ? Sure, who doesn't. I can compile this kind of BS for any single blogger out there.

The good thing about the internet is that everything is accessible. You don't trust the dude ? Go check it out, if you know how to search.

World would be a much better place if everybody was talking truth and nothing but the truth, right ? Meh...

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37013 · November 01, 2011 at 10:56 PM

I'll stick with my original answer to yesterday's thread, namely that I read a wide variety of websites and other publications then ponder the information to develop and focus my own thoughts. I'm not close enough to any of these people to make absolute judgments and I am pretty sure they're all mixtures of correct and accidentally incorrect statements in their work and their beliefs. I do get suspicious of anyone who dismisses counter evidence rather than re-working/thinking his/her previous pronouncements.

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5809 · January 22, 2012 at 12:27 AM

Oh my God. I left MDA because Dr. Kruse spends all day cultivating a veritable army of defenders of the "Quilt." How hard is it, Kruse, to respond to questions in a clear, concise manner? You aren't Rumplestiltskin, and no one is going to spin gold out of your pile of plagarism and shady psuedo-science. You are single-handedly driving rational people back into the bosom of Hostess and Stovetop Stuffing.

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168 · December 29, 2011 at 03:53 AM

Has anyone noticed that some of the information/posts written by Jack Kruse / Quilt appear to be taken directly from published, copyright protected sources? Is there any explanation other than the obvious?

from Carl Sagan and Ann Druyan

"...the ease with which it can be sweet-talked, overwhelmed, or subverted by our other hardwired propensities. These things sometimes themselves are disguised as the cool light of reason and that is a worrisome bias that might be a pitfall if we are not careful". --Quilt

"...the ease with which it can be sweet-talked, overwhelmed, or subverted by other hardwired propensities -- sometimes themselves disguised as the cool light of reason -- is worrisome." --Sagan and Druyan

from Michelle Skye, author of Goddess Alive!

"I am going to improve everything about me I can. Today I want to become the shaft of lightning or the glowing candle that illuminates my world. Be fast, furious, bold, and strong. Arrive quickly and depart just as fast, leaving behind a brighter mind or soul or heart in all I may touch." --Jack Kruse

"Brigid is the force behind grand ideas and simple comforts. She is direct, quick, enlightening, and enlivening. She is the shaft of lightning or the glowing candle that illuminates our world. Fast, furious, bold, and strong, she arrives quickly and departs just as fast, leaving behind a brighter mind or soul or heart. Brigid's gifts lie not in what she brings to you, but rather in casting light on what you can bring to the world." --Michelle Skye (Author of Goddess Alive!)

from Adlin Sinclair

"...the embodiment of the information we choose to accept and act upon. To change our circumstances we need to change our thinking and subsequent actions." --Quilt

"...the embodiment of the information you choose to accept and act upon. To change your circumstances you need to change your thinking and subsequent actions.” --Adlin Sinclair

from Anatole France

"All changes, even the most longed for, have their own melancholy of sorts (...) what we leave behind us is a part of being.......but we must die that part of life before we can enter into another realm." --Quilt

"All changes, even the most longed for have their melancholy (...) what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves. We must die to one life before we can enter another." --Anatole France

from Steve Jobs

"Remembering that we are going to eventually die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you really have something to lose in life." --Quilt

"Remembering that we are going to die is the only way I've found to escape the illusion of actually having something to lose." --Steve Jobs

from Herbert Henry Asquith

"Youth would be an ideal state if it came a little later in life." --Quilt

"Youth would be an ideal state if it came a little later in life." --Herbert Henry Asquith

from Chuck Palahniuk

"What we call chaos today is just patterns we haven't recognized yet." --Quilt

"What we call chaos is just patterns we haven't recognized yet.” --Chuck Palahniuk

from Robin Sharma

"Chase beauty......but adore mastery." --Quilt

"Chase beauty. Adore mastery." --Robin Sharma

from Alan C. Kay

"The best way for you to predict your future is to invent it." --Quilt

"...the best way to predict the future is to invent it." --Alan C. Kay

from Marc and Angel Hack Life

"...chance is a gift, so act on chance when given the opportunity." --Dr. Kruse 12 Wishes

"Chance is a gift, so act on chance when given the opportunity." --Marc and Angel Hack Life, 26 Life Lessons

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10170 · November 02, 2011 at 10:15 AM

(Although the question and most of the answers/comments are very respectable and polite, I hope this internet conversation and critique doesn't suffer from the lack of personal contact and non-verbal communication! This would be a much more interesting and fun thread if it was happening with all of us, including Dr. K, around a big fire, eating some meat on a stick, on a cool starlit night in august...)

Only a very subjective comment, and intellectually not very substantual:

Dr. K made paleo difficult! (edit: for me)

All the testing and supplements.

Again, he could be totally right, but paleo used to be easy.

By the way, we still use the easy paleo approach at home...

Cheers,

Pieter

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569 · November 02, 2011 at 01:26 AM

I am a new member of this community and English is not my native language so take my opinion for what its worth. I have not followed any of the mentioned "drama" and do not take any sides.
I am sure Dr.K gets a lot of stuff wrong and his attitude and ego seem to be bigger than most, however, he still is a very valuable, prolific and UNIQUE part of this community. He seems to be a cross between several communities - Paleo, Doctors, Quantified Self. There are other Paleo MDs, so what makes him really unique and valuable is the Quantified aspect of his persona. The Quilt is a true Paleo Quant Doctor. He really looks for context. He seems to have access to a lot of lab tests data ,both personal and patients, which allows him to quantify conditions, improvements as well as observe patterns through many lab results. He does not simply read papers, studies, and journals.
At the end of the day, he is the best and most prolific Paleo medical resource for lab testing. He trials and refines his ideas on his patients and himself through numerous lab tests. Thus, while some of his theories and presentations might have flaws, he still provides a very valuable information and hands on experience for free. I would appreciate him for his strengths and unique perspective, while acknowledging his weaknesses.

EDIT:

I seem to not have expressed myself properly and to have appeared as some Quilt die hard fan boy. I couldn't care less about most of Quilt's not well thought out, badly presented, poorly sourced ideas and hypotheses. I do not follow his protocols. However, I have GREAT respect for this guy because of his quantified approach and clinical experimentation. He has access to vast medical resources and most importantly is ACTIVELY using them to improve his own and the public knowledge and understanding of concepts. I can only hope that one day I might encounter a similar doctor in my personal medical journeys and interactions with medical professionals. If this thread results in less or no output from him, this would be a great loss not only for the Paleo community.

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6332 · November 03, 2011 at 12:52 AM

Amazing thread.

The Quilt's replies take it to the next level. Those replies and the idea that the man sits around here at paleohacks all day speak volumes. To learn that he has been banned from here before and yet he's back and so into this place is amazing.

Anyway, I am indeed happy for everyone who has benefitted from his advice. That's really what matters most.

--- EDITED ---

Is this really him?

thoughts-on-dr.-jack-kruse?-(aka-the-quilt)

thoughts-on-dr.-jack-kruse?-(aka-the-quilt)

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55322 · November 02, 2011 at 02:24 PM

The problem is that Dr. Kruse is a doctor, but he posts a lot of comments and stuff that are less than rigorous. I think when you have that credential burden, you have to be careful what you say. I recommended his blog to my roommates in NYC who were having a lot of trouble with paleo and I think they really benefitted from his Leptin RX, particularly the high protein breakfast. I guess my beef with him is he is so focused on a certain type of sick person that he, like many other low-carb doctors, thinks his prescriptions (like keto) are optimal for everyone and his view of human evolution is shaped by this. There is the second type of sick person, of which there are many on PH, which is the tend to be-underweight malnourished often kind of high-strung sort. That's what I am, and that's what a lot of other people I know are. Keto can help some of these people, but it can make others worse.

Edit: Quilt seems to think I have it in for him. Why would I recommend the Leptin RX to certain people (people I CARE about) then?? I think the Leptin RX can help a lot of people. It is mainly his random comments on the internet I have argued about, particularly on the safe starch debate and on evolutionary biology.

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3697 · November 02, 2011 at 02:27 AM

Like others, I appreciate The Quilt for his willingness to post. His cryptic answers are more than annoying, and your citations to intentional misrepresentations definitely bring his credibility into question. As for his ideas, I would suggest n=1 like most other information we read about the Paleo diet. If you think a Quilt suggestion sounds legitimate enough, give it a try and see if it works for you.

As an aside, I think this is the best PH post I have read. Thank you for taking the time.

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77322 · November 01, 2011 at 11:29 PM

I like the Quilt. He turned me on to K2. When you guys live longer, you'll find out that one good idea, per person, per lifetime is about as good as you can expect from any other human being. Think George W Bush as the counter example. :)

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20462 · November 03, 2011 at 01:21 PM

I wasn't going to jump into this at all but it's driving me crazy. I like PH for the knowledge and online community, I get happy when I see certain people posting things because they actually will phrase some serious interesting stuff in a way that everyone can understand, looking at you Kamal, GWAR, Mer, Melissa, Gillie Bean, and definitely a few others except I'm only two sips into my tea and I can't remember right now.

I don't know everything. This is where I want to learn more and share, not always in books, podcasts, and other websites, but by real people who are experiencing the same things I am. I know that if I pose a question to the aforementioned people that they won't make me feel like an idiot with their response, which in turn will make me want to post more meaty responses in addition to posing different styles of questions. It. Makes. Me. Grow. and is not stifling in any way.

Yes. Quilt drives me crazy with those cryptic posts that are phrased in such a way that discussion is difficult to build off of unless it's kind of antagonistic. Sir, I really wish that you would just wait until you're home and write something thoughtful instead of just four words. But that's cool, it's your way.

How do I handle it? I just don't read his posts. See? Easy. Let it roll off. I don't think PH was ever meant to be a peeing contest. Drinking pee is Paleo, right?

Now, who wants some homemade coconut pudding topped with broiled spicy banana? Hmm?

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1550 · November 03, 2011 at 12:08 AM

Quilt on cancer reduction through nipple massages: "....one nipple massage will reduce your risk of breast CA by 50% because of the sensitivity to oxytocin"

I did a little search and found what could be the probable source for that statement:

Biological relevance of oxytocin and oxytocin receptors in cancer cells and primary tumors

"(...) it has become evident that OT may participate in other biological activities in the neoplastic context. In experiments set in vitro, we demonstrated a unique effect of inhibition in the proliferation of breast [15], endometrial [16], glial [18], neuronal [18] and bone [19] neoplastic cells. The entity of such inhibition ranged from 30% to 50% for all the different cell lines and had been evident since the first 48 hours of OT treatment."

But:

Although the inhibiting effect of OT on cell proliferation was reproducible in all the above-described cells, in the BeWo human choriocarcinoma cell line OT produced an opposite effect on cell proliferation [17]

Also, the following paper looks interesting:

The potential for oxytocin (OT) to prevent breast cancer: a hypothesis.

I think the problem is not the information per se but the way it is transmitted. I try to never use a "will" specially in complex topics like cancer, because we don't know much about it. So probably, stimulating oxytocin release by a nipple massage could help against breast cancer, but it might also increase the invasiveness of human endometrial carcinoma and angiogenesis (bad if talking about cancer).

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3681 · November 02, 2011 at 11:51 AM

The Quilt is a funny guy. My opinion is that you shouldn't let personality get in the way of a) listening to other perspectives and b) when in doubt looking into things for yourself.

Don' t let your personal religion stop you from exploring other's religions and don't hold others accountable for your own personal choices. Make your own choices and decide for yourself what is reliable and not reliable.

There have been many cases in history were a group of people have come together to persecute an idea and in the end the majority was wrong. Don't forget that. Also don't forget that there have been many cases in history where individuals were wrong.

http://paleohacks.com/questions/48074/most-original-influential-helpful-major-person-group-in-the-paleo-primal-health-c#axzz1cY0jhniK

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39204 · November 01, 2011 at 11:50 PM

If you want free advice, you get exactly what you pay for.

That being said, I do have a question about the Leptin RX (which seems to not jive with my very limited understanding of biochemistry) specifically: If your aim is to increase the perception of leptin by the arcuate nucleus of the hypothalamus, why would you recommend carbohydrate restriction when it results in a drastic reduction in circulating leptin?

http://www.springerlink.com/index/UVUHPQH4UMUVE6VJ.pdf

Even if this protocol greatly enhanced leptin sensitivity, the individual would be working with a substantial leptin handicap. Since Dr. Kruse is himself VLC as far as I know, there isn't even an implicit recommendation to increase carbs once this protocol does its magic unless Dr. Kruse is implying that he himself is still leptin resistant and is still working on correcting it. If that's the case, then we might question this protocol's efficacy. Looking it over, I don't see why it would be ineffective for weight loss (and certainly the many mini-informercial testimonials we see here are at least partially legitimate), but lots of things result in weight loss without addressing leptin sensitivity.

For what it's worth, I personally suspect that leptin resistance (and thus perhaps obesity itself) is the result of excitotoxic substances like the supraphysiological doses of free glutamic acid from MSG or equivalents and aspartic acid from aspartame etc. that many people today ingest that damage the leptin receptors of the hypothalamus (which isn't protected by the blood-brain barrier). As such, if I were to construct a protocol aimed at restoring leptin sensitivity, it would be built around the absolute avoidance of these compounds in the hope that these receptors could be repaired.

http://journals.lww.com/neuroreport/Abstract/1999/04260/The_arcuate_nucleus_is_pivotal_in_mediating_the.5.aspx

http://www.nature.com/oby/journal/v16/n8/abs/oby2008274a.html

Edit: Quilt is on AttacKruse-Control and calling me out for making up that he's VLC. I knew I had read it somewhere: http://paleohacks.com/questions/47258/what-are-some-of-your-magic-tricks-in-your-paleo-lifestyle-that-youd-like-to-s/47278#47278

I also eat a fairly low carb diet. Most days below fifty grams……most below 25 grams of carbs.

I'd sure as hell call that VLC.

I can't keep track of all of the changes that someone makes to their diet. You know I haven't read everything he's written because I'm not in a padded cell. So, he's decided to synch his carb up to the position of Earth in it's revolution around the Sun. Lovely. I've never heard of a single other soul on this planet doing that, so as you might expect I didn't account for that possibility. This is why I said "as far as I know" (now bolded) above.

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1529 · November 02, 2011 at 12:07 AM

He's obviously in it because he believes it can make a difference. It takes a certain type of character to do what he does. High output and problem solving can go along with increased error rate. Now it's not for me to tell his error rate, but I'd certainly consider a low error rate important in this area. I think he's much more correct where it counts than most doctors you will meet. Nobody is right 100% of the time and everybody can fall prey to the logical pitfalls of being human.

My only critique is the lack of graphics on his blog, though it's not like any paleo author makes much use of that. The things he writes about would really benefit from relationship maps and such.

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10750 · November 02, 2011 at 08:28 PM

I'm interested in hearing all that he has to say, but hate having to puzzle out the meaning of his typos.

I know that I need a editor sometimes.

I'm kind of surprised that with the freedom to edit that is built into PH, that there are not more people following around some of more prolific and typo-prone people JUST FIXING IT as we all go along.

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556 · November 03, 2011 at 01:57 AM

Answering to the title, my thought on the quilt; are that one should think for themselves. I'm right now following three of his advices, taking magnesium, sleeping, and the BAB. It has helped me tremendously, since I used to eat constantly and be hungry at the same time. I don't follow him religiously and I haven't taken the tests he recommends, but I'm the best judge of my own health. I appreciate him a lot because I have been fed falsehoods throughout my life about nutrition, leading me to become a vegetarian at 12, which took a lot from me and led to absolutely no good. So I really like that its a polar perspective and also that it works. But I'm not going to swallow anything whole and follow it blindly, since that would be the same as what I did with vegetarianism. I think it's good to critisize with an opposing opinion (such as "it's not leptin! It's dopamine!") but I also see a lot of unnecessary whining in this shitstorm. Were not children, and this is not dr.oz. We have all been jaded by the conventional wisdom so we should think more for ourselves, and also be understanding that dr. Kruse's ideas might not be fully developed. The truth is also that science does not yet have all the answers, so all side of the arguments are more or less theories and hypotheses. It's always easier to critisize than to do something about it.

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25181 · November 02, 2011 at 08:06 PM

Thanks for all the nice thoughts.

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3142 · November 02, 2011 at 04:21 PM

Aw shucks. I just want to get everyone around a big campfire, cook some meat, and make everything hunky-dory ... this cavewoman isn't a fan of conflict ... * sigh * .... * goes to start a campfire *

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11251 · November 02, 2011 at 04:06 PM

And, yet again, the noise here at PH is rather louder than the signal. Reading Jack is, at the very least, good for generating an idea or two, which turns out to be the point. We need ideas we can test (hopefully with relative safety).

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8890 · November 02, 2011 at 01:48 AM

I'll just add a little bit to Eric's answer by saying that I don't think the re-broadcast of ideas without cites is intentional. I have read things that DrK has written here and there, and they sound alot like what I had written. Did he copy me? Did we draw from the same well? I wrote something about Gary Taubes on the Dr. Oz show, and a few months later Taubes wrote something similar. Did he copy me? Probably not, we're both just clever. My impression of DrK is that he is much more concerned with the overall flow and interconnection with ideas, and less so dotting the i's and crossing the T's, is it 56% reduction, 57% reduction? And there are some very uncreative minions who demand that he behave another way, in a more "respectable" way. They throw out "do you have a cite for that" like street thugs roughing up pedestrians who have the temerity to cross their little street corner without payment. Universities and research centers are full of people who can't seem to move one foot in front of the other without checking pubmed. They just can't stand it when someone comes along, leaping, dancing around, doing it all wrong. We would never move forward on anything without people like this. Now as for me, I didn't wait around for pubmed to tell me it was OK to eat the way DrK recommends. YMMV, and that's ok. If his ideas are total crap, he'll either change them, or eventually be run out of town. Let's hope he doesn't get run out on a technicality. That would be bad for everyone.

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15070 · November 02, 2011 at 01:25 AM

So many points raised, I have noticed one other thing worth bringing up that I see in Quilt as well as other progressive/forward thinking clinicians...

They formulate theories that may well be correct but aren't able to prove them inconclusively. Clinical experience shows them what works and doesn't work, and the community will then scrutinize their reasoning regardless of whether the results show success. Lustig also comes to mind, as well as some people I have firsthand experience with who aren't known on a national level.

This is the difference between researcher and clinician, and when clinicians write things they are highly scrutinized.

and a joke to help summarize this whole issue

"What's the difference between a surgeon and God?"

"God doesn't think he's a surgeon"

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344 · November 04, 2011 at 01:26 PM

I shouldn't reply.. but hmmm Oh Well here are a couple things.

I think a lot of you are missing or forgetting the points of why he does all that he does...

1st point is to help ppl get to the point of Optimal health... sure Paleo was easy, before he came along. His version is out there to help us get to a place where we can repair our body chemistry.. it IS hard, getting back Optimal Health is hard. I am sure that is why he makes the food/supplement suggestions he does. I am sure lots of us could coast along with a generic Paleo Lifestyle and do really good, better than most of the population even... but if you want OPTIMAL, some things need to change, timing needs to change, deficiencies addressed, thinking needs to change. We need a guy like him to come in and shake up our cozy little world.

2nd point.. he wants to slap the Medical Establishment. They need it... for God's sake most of them can't even diagnose Thyroid problems correctly. They need a huge slap in the face, they need a guy like Dr Jack to be caustic with them and slap them around a LOT.

This might not be the best forum, to accomplish all that, but it is kind of addicting to read this site, even though there plenty of sanctimonious idiots here, I can see why he keeps coming back.

On a side note... there are a lots of people who are doing really good with his ideas. They are enjoying better health and recovering very nicely from years of abuse from the SAD.

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80 · November 02, 2011 at 11:23 PM

Okay. I think you guys are missing something VERY VERY IMPORTANT. Read the following excerpt from the hack very closely:

A few months ago Quilt made the following statement... "There are fifteen variables one has to consider about a healthy long life span. Paleo hit about four of them. The rest matter too. Paul Jaminet has asked me to write him something up for his blog and I need to get that done this week."

At the time, when asked about this, Paul Jaminet stated that he did not know who The Quilt was, nor had he asked this person to write anything.

Do you know what this means? It means that Dr. Kruse completely and utterly lied for no reason other than to sound important. He read something on paleohacks, then fabricated a story in which Paul Jaminet asked him to guest post on his blog.

Does this not scare you? A neurosurgeon who has a 1,000 page thread on Mark’s Daily Apple forums routinely makes up strait-up lies? This is not a grammar issue, it’s not a fact-checking issue, it’s not a problem with busy thinkers. I don't care if you're a Quilt fan or not. I am (or was). I like his blog even if it's tough to read. But this freaks the heck out of me. How will Quilt possibly respond to this? Will his supporters say "Oh, lies don't matter, it's the message that counts"?

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11648 · November 02, 2011 at 08:33 PM

I personally like Dr K, even if he might be wrong. I don't have the faintest idea if he's right or not about the stuff he claims, since I'm not a doctor, but the impresion I got from him is this: he's passionate about what he does, he genuinely believes what he writes & claims, and he does study to learn more about all sort of things. The real problem is that he mixes & matches stuff in his head, sometimes correctly, sometimes not. This is why I usually do take in what he says, but I only implement half (or 1/3) of what he suggests. In other words, he's an individual that he's best taken with a grain of salt, but I do believe that there is some truth in some of the things he writes. The difficulty is: which ones?

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2439 · November 02, 2011 at 03:37 AM

Im not sure about the science behind it but I switched from IF to eating 50+ grams of protein within 30 min of waking and do notice that Im much more alert in the morning and have more energy during the day. That said, he comes across like an egomaniac sometimes but I take it with a grain of salt

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664 · March 04, 2012 at 06:19 PM

Jack Kruse is a neurosurgeon. If he were to focus his abundant mental energy on neurologic improvement via diet, with his title and good looks he could potentially make big waves in the real media world (the Dr Oz of neurology) by working with returning soldiers who have TBI and spinal cord injuries who are right now being fed fructose and trans fat.

IMO.

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60 · February 21, 2012 at 09:35 PM

Here's a typical example of Dr. Kruse's failure to cite:

From his blog in answer to a reader's question.

Pat Says:

February 17th, 2012 at 8:19 am Am I correct that Pregnenolone converts to DHEA? Would Pregnenolone supplementation work better or not as well as direct DHEA supplentation? My DHEA levels are good for my age (61) but I’ve been told that I should shoot for levels of a 40 y.o. male. I tend to run high E2.

Jack Says:

February 17th, 2012 at 1:25 pm

@Pat Going to make your head hurt………The biosynthesis of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) from cholesterol involves only two enzymes, both cytochrome P450s. The conversion of cholesterol to pregnenolone is mediated by cholesterol side-chain cleavage enzyme (CYP11A1), which is found in the mitochondria. The cleavage of pregnenolone to DHEA requires both the 17alpha-hydroxylase and 17,20-lyase activities of CYP17, which is found in the endoplasmic reticulum. These conversions require pairs of electron transfer proteins or redox partners, which are adrenodoxin and adrenodoxin reductase for CYP11A1 and cytochrome P450-oxidoreductase and cytochrome b5 for CYP17. In addition, the steroidogenic acute regulatory (StAR) protein regulates the flux of cholesterol into the biosynthetic pathway and represents the mechanism of acute regulation. Finally, in addition to possessing CYP11A1 and CYP17, it is equally important that a steroidogenic cell not contain other enzymes that drain the flux of pregnenolone to DHEA. These characteristics are illustrated by the fetal adrenal cortex and the zona reticularis, which are dedicated to the synthesis of DHEA and DHEA-sulfate.

From PubMed:

Overview of dehydroepiandrosterone biosynthesis. Auchus RJ. SourceDivision of Endocrinology and Metabolism, Department of Internal Medicine, UT Southwestern Medical Center, Dallas, Texas 75390-8857, USA. richard.auchus@UTSouthwestern.edu

Abstract The biosynthesis of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) from cholesterol involves only two enzymes, both cytochrome P450s. The conversion of cholesterol to pregnenolone is mediated by cholesterol side-chain cleavage enzyme (CYP11A1), which is found in the mitochondria. The cleavage of pregnenolone to DHEA requires both the 17alpha-hydroxylase and 17,20-lyase activities of CYP17, which is found in the endoplasmic reticulum. These conversions require pairs of electron transfer proteins or redox partners, which are adrenodoxin and adrenodoxin reductase for CYP11A1 and cytochrome P450-oxidoreductase and cytochrome b5 for CYP17. In addition, the steroidogenic acute regulatory (StAR) protein regulates the flux of cholesterol into the biosynthetic pathway and represents the mechanism of acute regulation. Finally, in addition to possessing CYP11A1 and CYP17, it is equally important that a steroidogenic cell not contain other enzymes that drain the flux of pregnenolone to DHEA. These characteristics are illustrated by the fetal adrenal cortex and the zona reticularis, which are dedicated to the synthesis of DHEA and DHEA-sulfate.

Comment in Semin Reprod Med. 2004 Nov;22(4):279-80. PMID:15635496[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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4753 · December 29, 2011 at 04:33 PM

Seems like maybe something along the lines of "somewhere I once read..." or "someone once said..." would do the trick nicely. Just another perspective.

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68 · November 03, 2011 at 01:23 AM

He does come across as full of himself, however, it took me 2 seconds to find info on Pubmed about leptin and lipodystrophy. Makes me wonder what else you said about him isn't true. See "Leptin-replacement therapy for lipodystrophy" N Engl J Med. 2002 Feb 21;346(8):570-8. When criticizing someone you should get your facts straight don't you think? :)

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946 · November 02, 2011 at 02:29 AM

I've been doing Paleo on and off for 5 months and want to input just how amazed I am at the dynamics on this website. I know this isn't an answer but see lots of arguments here and just want to be appreciative of this valuable resource. :)

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638 · November 04, 2011 at 03:38 PM

holy asshattery! You mean to tell me that the Quilt is HUMAN?!

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5774 · November 03, 2011 at 12:29 AM

I'm loving how paleohacks is turning into a crappy version of high school.

Patrick, please delete my account.

I have not contributed nearly to the degree of The Quilt, many of his supporters, and most of his detractors and therefore will not be missed.

There have been a few threads lately that have moved me toward non-participation and less frequent visiting of this site. Those other threads are typically the vegans and vegetarians are idiots. This one and the other Quilt thread are different in that they are calling out a person that is far more knowledgeable than most of his detractors (me included) in a personal way.

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77322 · November 02, 2011 at 01:54 PM

I've seen worse grammar and spelling errors in published books that people pay money for.

How much have any of you paid for the Quilt's writing?

Also, keep in mind, I think he is posting stuff a lot of times from an iPad. Have you tried to use the keyboards on screen only devices? What a freaking pain!

All of you complaining should start your own blogs and help as many people as the Quilt does before you open your mouths. Really.

Some of you are extremely childish and instead of posting useful things, you make bad jokes. I appreciate humor, but some of you really do come across as junior high level personalities.

Instead of posting something useful, you poke fun. How about you disprove the Quilt if he is so wrong? Trying to ridicule people reminds me of the playground bully and the people who were afraid of him who would join in. Really lame.

EDIT: Just realizing some of the loudest criticizers probably DO have their own blogs and are more than a little jealous of the attention the Quilt is receiving. Probably also perturbed by the fact that he doesn't need anyone's approval or money as he is already quite successful in a lucrative field.

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598 · November 02, 2011 at 06:56 AM

Dr BG you must have just read Quilt's nice responses!! What are your thoughts on his leptin reset?

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6043 · May 20, 2012 at 02:00 AM

After experimenting with his recommendations, I have reached the conclusion that Jack Kruse seems to consistently advocate for a hypothyroid state. If you are most concerned with quality of life, don't bother with Jack.

That said, a lower resting metabolism may confer greater longevity, though it comes at the price of feeling like shit all the time.

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77322 · November 04, 2011 at 12:49 PM

Hey Quilt! The pioneers get the arrows and the settlers get the land!

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77322 · November 02, 2011 at 01:57 AM

no way I'm reading all of this, but Quilt still believes that scientific terms like excotoxins, and leptin, are real things, when really, they are just theories created by people who had extreme interest in trying to understand our body. For real improvement in health, you gotta remember what it was like when you were young to just do what feels good, including how food makes you feel. The quilt represents people who think this is rocket science. Also, How come the moderators are allowing such an interesting, and cutting edge question, usually they only feel comfortable with the really drab ones.

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25181 · November 02, 2011 at 09:02 PM

I think this thread says it all about this tribe keep it rolling MODS!

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2198 · October 07, 2012 at 07:37 PM

Regarding nipple stimulation:

The stimulation of a woman's nipples promotes the production and release of oxytocin and prolactin. During the stimulation of the nipples, large amounts of oxytocin are released, which would normally prepare the breast for breastfeeding. Besides creating maternal feelings in a woman, it also decreases her anxiety, increases human bonding and trust.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimulation_of_nipples Levin R, Meston C (May 2006). "Nipple/Breast stimulation and sexual arousal in young men and women". The Journal of Sexual Medicine 3 (3): 450–4. doi:10.1111/j.1743-6109.2006.00230.x. PMID 16681470. ^ "Physiologic Mechanism of Nipple Stimulation". Medscape Today from WebMD. Retrieved 2010-11-20.


Oxytocin inhibits proliferation of human breast cancer cell lines. Cassoni P, Sapino A, Negro F, Bussolati G. Source

Department of Biomedical Sciences and Oncology, University of Turin, Italy. Abstract In this study we show that treatment of MDA-MB231 hormone-independent human breast cancer cells with oxytocin (OT) or with the OT analogue F314 induces significant growth inhibition together with a change in cell phenotype. In MCF7 and T47D human breast cancer cells, OT inhibits oestrogen-induced cell growth. In these same cells, OT administration significantly enhances the inhibitory effect of tamoxifen on cell proliferation. MDA-MB231, MCF7 and T47D cells all express mRNA specific for the OT receptor. These data suggest that it may be possible to inhibit breast cancer growth using OT and OT analogues.

Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7850070

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547 · May 20, 2012 at 01:52 AM

Rather than nipple massage, take a strong stance on breastfeeding. Not enough doctors do that! The new AAP revision says breastfeeding for 12 months reduces breast cancer by 25-28%. I know there is a number for 24 months as well I came across in school.

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659 · March 08, 2012 at 06:12 AM

I think he is so far ahead of the bell curve in terms of achieving optimal that it's quite scary. I think paleo eating and living is only one piece of a larger puzzle.

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3127 · December 24, 2011 at 06:20 AM

if he is paleo, he is family. its a big tribe with lots of room.

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0 · November 27, 2011 at 07:11 AM

Holy cow this Patrik guy is the biggest mouth-breathing, power-tripping douchebag ive seen in a while. Look at him try to flex his muscle on here, pathetic mental midget at best. I've also only been reading paleohacks for an hour or two, and its already pretty obvious who the "crazies" are.

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16813 · November 13, 2011 at 12:03 AM

Now I know the answer to the question Dr. Who? It's Quilt!

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3180 · November 02, 2011 at 06:29 PM

I think he should rename his theories from 'The Quilt' to 'Diary of a Madman'. He writes what he thinks and I think there is value in that. Sometimes his thumbs are quicker than his brain, and sometimes his iPod autocorrects to the wrong word, but context people, context.

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8883 · November 02, 2011 at 11:41 AM

Like all guru's, you gotta take EVERYTHING WITH A GRAIN OF SALT. But please, don't do personal attacks. The man has helped many. Even if he sometimes is a bit arrogant, I appreciate his work a lot.

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0 · November 02, 2011 at 02:17 AM

Alright. Everybody's outta here! You're all out!

You know how many PaleoHacks guidelines under the FAQ you're violating!

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