Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1
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Thoughts on Dr. Jack Kruse? (aka The Quilt)

by (7324)
Updated October 07, 2012 at 7:37 PM
Created November 01, 2011 at 10:46 PM

---------THIRD PARTY EDIT------------
The below hack is old stuff. It's interesting background from the spring of 2011, but you might want to read these more current posts:
What???s the deal with PaleoHacks, Dr. Kruse and the FBI?
Richard's blog post about Jack's latest events
Jack's blog post on CT12
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BACKGROUND

There was a paleohacks thread yesterday about how much we should trust various sources of information. We???re lucky to have some very smart people posting interesting information on paleohacks, such as Ron Rosedale, Cate Shanahan, and The Quilt.

Lately there have been many posts about people having positive results with The Quilt's Leptin Rx. The science is complex, but it definitely piqued my curiosity. As an information junkie, I decided to scan through what the Internet could tell me about The Quilt and his ideas.

I found some very positive things, but several fairly disturbing things as well. Please excuse this extremely lengthy hack, but I do believe it is of value.

POSITIVES

Let me start by saying that it's clear Jack has some very positive things to contribute to the paleosphere:
- Quilt is a neurosurgeon. Thus, he definitely knows science. Has a strong grasp of several fields, from cell-level to organ-level.
- Quilt gives free advice and will personally answer your questions. Very cool for a busy surgeon.
- Those who follow his protocol appear to be having success.
- The guy can think out of the box. He is curious about all aspects of health. He lost a bunch of weight, and thus walks the walk in addition to talking the talk.
- Quilt can be both serious and funny. See Halloween 2011(NSFW/NSFL) version of Quilt. He is a longstanding and active member of paleohacks who often provides interesting viewpoints.

NEGATIVES

In looking into his writings further though, I found some disturbing trends. Perhaps I am over reacting? Misinterpreting?

Quilt on cancer reduction through nipple massages
Quilt: "nipple massage will reduce your risk of breast CA by 50% because of the sensitivity to oxytocin....."

Quilt on MUFAs Quilt: "Mufa's are more sensitive to oxidation. This is why avocado brown so fast when cut. Unstable."
Matthew: "The browning of avocados has nothing to do with mono-unsaturated fatty acids. It is an enzymatic reaction cross-linking phenolic compounds to protect the damaged fruit against microbes."
Kamal: "'Tis true. The culprit is exposed enzymes, not fatty acid oxidation. You can't just go around making stuff up to prove your points. Well, technically you can."
(Current lipid biochemistry indicates that MuFA are very stable...This fact is widely accepted)

Quilt on Mindfulness
Paleohacks user Kamal calls out Quilt for making up statistics:
Quilt: "Mindfulness has shown 56% reduction in cancer recurrence.Show me one drug that even comes close to that number?
Kamal: "Ummm...no. Most of the trial research was done here in Boston at MGH, UMass, and Beth Israel. Neither meta-analyses nor individual trials show a 56% reduction. During the summer that I interned at the Benson-Henry Institute for Mind-Body Medicine, no one (not even the venerable Dr. Benson) threw around those numbers. I'd ask you to cite your sources, but that does not appear to be your modus operandi."
Kamal: "Yesterday, I saw a claim he made about mindfulness reducing cancer recurrence by 56%. Luckily, I had an internship at the biggest mindfulness research center in the country a few years ago, and knew he was wrong. But who is going to do "due diligence" just to make sure that someone isn't making stuff up?"

Just a few of Quilt's factual errors (overstatements, uninformed speculation, possible plagiarism)

Quilt says, "My principles are based around optimizing life through science not opinion???, though responses often appear to be his opinion rather than substantiated or cited scientific (fact/reasoning).
The following examples (taken from paleohacks) are used to illustrate various errors of fact, faulty reasoning, uninformed speculation and possible plagiarism. Quilt: "Leptin control [sic] fat disposition in body parts. This is why women have curves and men dont. Moreover, people with dosordered leptin function have major body comp and fat deposit issues. See any HIV patient as a great example of the other side of this coin."
akd: "Jesus, lipodystrophy is a side effect from some antiretroviral drugs used to manage HIV infections. not everyone who takes antiretrovirals gets it. its not a function fo the HIV infection, and looking up the cause i dont see the word "leptin" anywhere.

RG73, medical student and paleohacks participant questions a statement made by The Quilt
Quilt: "Cross country running or skiing plus paleo is an oxymoron and might eventually kill you via apoptosis or senescence which ever your programmed for first".......I'll pass"
RG73: "Citation that running shortens telomeres please? Running is going to cause apoptosis? Seriously? That makes zero evolutionary sense. Mitochondria work against our telomeres? Separate genomes. What is the biological mechanism? Werner et al. 2008, Werner et al. 2009, Puterman et al. 2010, LaRocca et al. 2010. I mean I could go on with this all day."

ZZ: "Per what I've read on Whole Health Source and PaNu sites, we want to keep PUFA <= 4%."
Quilt: "This number comes from Mary Enig and truthfully no one knows if it is true."
Jay: "The 4% figure does not come from Mary Enig. It comes from real research done by Lands..."

Quilt possibly making up stuff about gelatin:
Quilt: "All gelatin that is commercially produced is loaded with excitotoxins. So i would never eat it. If you make your own with bone broth that is awesome."
Kamal: "Please explain how home made bone broth (producing gelatin) is different than gelatin made from pig skin and powdered in amino acid profile. Both have glutamine. Most (paleo) people get the regular, unhydrolyzed gelatin."
Jay: "QUILT, this is just mechanistic speculation. Moreover, it doesn't even seem well-founded."
Matthew: "Interesting fact: A breakfast made up beef containing 50 grams of protein can contain 10 grams of glutamate. In contrast 10 grams of gelatin contains only 0.5 grams of glutamate."
One of many instances of Quilt posting something but not acknowledging that the source is another website, not him (mild, perhaps unintentional "borrowing" of ideas)...

Matthew: "By the way, have the LEF been pinching your work? I realise the above quote is from your blog. If you look under the Vitamin K heading at paragraph 37-38 on this page it looks quite similar to the last six lines above..."

Quilt willy-nilly attacks other paleo gurus even when they have never heard of Quilt. See here for Kurt Harris getting pissed off by Quilt...
Dr. Kruse: "While i like both of these guys, neither one has any clinical experience treating cancer patients. They read literature. When kurt was a practicing doc he spent time in a dark room with films not patients."
Kurt Harris MD: "I suppose referring to my by my Christian name when I have never met you supports the impression you know a single thing about my clinical practice or career.You don't. I have had varied and intimate contact with patients doing interventional radiology, including neurointerventional for over 25 years. For 6 years I performed a person consultation with all of my patients at my own private imaging center - that would be about 12,000 in-person patient encounters. This is where I started treating patients with my diet, through this local contact. And I continue to do it locally and in internet consultation, even if you don't know it because I am not as loud about it as some...I am not clear on what being an oncologist has to do with anything, but you are no more of an oncologist than I am. You are a dentist and neurosurgeon. Try sticking to your crackpot theorizing rather than knocking a radiologist and physicist for the "madness" of thinking you might not die if you eat a potato...."

Quilt sometimes predicts that eating things he doesn???t like will kill you, making erroneous blanket statements...
ROB: ???hadn't had dairy in close to 10 months and finally binged on close to 400 grams of sour cream daily for three days, and I feel great.???
Quilt: ???I say eat it.......It will keep me busy down the road...Dairy equal insulin and eventually insulin leads to death. The great circle of life encapsulated.???
Lee: ???But doc...full fat, heavy cream for instance, doesnt spike insulin, does it????
Ikco: ???Dairy isn't dairy. Source and type matter enormously. And scare tactics are just lame.???

So I???m looking for some input. Given the type of information I found above, how should I approach the Quilt???s ideas? Sorry if the post sounded antagonistic, but these are simply the facts that I found using a google search and a paleohacks search. I am genuinely interested in what people???s views are on this. Quilt is providing a potentially useful and absolutely free source of information, but I want to know how much I can trust that information, given what I found above (which presumably is just a small slice of what???s out there).

EDIT & NOTE BY PATRIK: I DON'T THINK IS AN APPROPRIATE TOPIC FOR PALEOHACKS GIVEN ITS EMOTIONAL & SUBJECTIVE NATURE. I WILL LEAVE THIS THREAD UP FOR NOW BUT DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A PILE-ON HATE-FEST AGAINST THE QUILT. PLEASE WATCH YOUR EMOTION & LANGUAGE & DON'T BE MEAN. :)

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596
0 · September 07, 2013 at 1:28 AM

Erik, nope. Here was the question: http://paleohacks.com/questions/70535/supplementation-question#axzz1cZYQSuiQ Look at Quilt's answer and the comments. He throws out this gem at one point "I think its funny to quote a researcher with zero clinical experience treating a disease that i have seen and treated successfully thousands of time. Remarkable really." The question and Guyenet's quote had nothing to do with whatever phantom disease Quilt is talking about.

98148e265e1a9b27ce1c206190c1b8a4
0 · September 07, 2013 at 1:28 AM

Furthermore, this is not "an accounting of his story", it's just more ill mannered bragging over nothing much. "OOh I made some girl look at me in my underwear while I bought a five thousand dollar suit" Who the heck cares how much your suit costs? Let me be clear, I've worked in the service industry for a long time. What we call people like this is "douchebags". Morons who don't understand true quality, only a pricetag and who like to shove their egos in the face of others. Extremely unsavory.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3
0 · December 10, 2012 at 11:03 PM

I think the issue is that translating hormonal and cell culture studies to saying nipple massages cause a 50% reduction in breast cancer risk is making a mountain out of an ant hill.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · June 17, 2012 at 10:47 AM

So where is he now, guys? LOL.

59fa7cd87fb9d669adf21e5cf3e7ada5
0 · May 19, 2012 at 2:09 PM

He's like the Jonas Salk of Paleo

870fdea50f2a9f1cd2890c8e22549300
0 · May 19, 2012 at 12:59 PM

"I can alter people with my mind." Holy cow.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f
0 · May 19, 2012 at 7:31 AM

I though Kruse would use orange glasses. After all, he promotes them on his website.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc
0 · May 18, 2012 at 3:45 AM

Yes that's him.

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596
0 · May 18, 2012 at 12:20 AM

Somebody said these pictures were among his personal photos on facebook.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8
0 · March 28, 2012 at 11:55 PM

This is funny but isn't it much like reciting proverbs? These are "quotable quotes" by famous people but there isn't actually plagirizable value in them. So he's perusing Bartlett's Book of Quotations. Did he pass them as his own, spontaneous quote? I don't think so. Even if he did, it's like saying, "Nothing gold can last."

28445852ed6b0277e04ac483e1e6bd99
0 · February 22, 2012 at 8:59 PM

Blatant word for word copying is the most elementary form of plagiarism. I can't understand why he doesn't realize how disrespectful this is to his readers.

Da3d4a6835c0f5256b2ef829b3ba3393
0 · February 22, 2012 at 1:17 AM

Wow. LOL, uh.... wow. I know that I busted him here for the same thing when he was "Dr. K." He was copy-and-pasting various blog posts of other people and not citing his answers. It looked to me like he was passing the answer off as his very own.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad
0 · February 21, 2012 at 9:47 PM

Betsy, he doesn't need to cite. Just remember "See its in my reality......it needs to be added to your own. Until you become consciously aware of that limitation......you cant enjoy that new reality "

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · February 03, 2012 at 9:11 PM

Bea -- your new avatar is a million riots...

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · February 03, 2012 at 9:09 PM

what are L a bored sitcom writer with primal smarts and leanings?

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · February 03, 2012 at 9:09 PM

clitoris = 'DWARF STAR PENIS'. i have not laughed so hard on this forum... 10,000 upvotes. A very warm welxome to Paleohacks to you!!

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · January 22, 2012 at 3:14 AM

DARN I pressed the wrong button. I'll try to send you a request - or you can try again!

26b0f1261d1a0d916825bd0deeb96a21
0 · January 22, 2012 at 3:05 AM

Just requested you as a friend! I'm the redhead, of course!

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · January 22, 2012 at 3:01 AM

Get outta my dreams and into my facebook group! (http://www.facebook.com/meredith.harbouryetter) Shhh are you on facebook (sometimes we gossip and cuss in this little group I have going).

26b0f1261d1a0d916825bd0deeb96a21
0 · January 22, 2012 at 2:44 AM

@Meredith, yeah the insanely scientific and N=1 thing about the "Scrotum Crazies," is that it can certainly, definitely, sort of be avoided by daily immersion in what I term, "Vulva Rainbow Baths." Now, mind you, not everyone has the "Crazies," only about 92.7% of the global population has the problem (I know most are chicks, but stay with me). You see, and this is a teaser here, most people don't realize that the clitoris is actually a dwarf-star penis! The ketones in the paleo vulva work to fully develop the dwarfed organ. I rec 60g of diluted badger brains/ostrich thyroid upon waking.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · January 22, 2012 at 2:30 AM

I get you girl. I mean lawd oh mercy! THIS SHIT has to be regulates.SCROTUM CRAZIES - http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DSTdIDrBBioE%26NR%3D1%26feature%3Dendscreen&h=wAQEu-Hg-AQEiHdw2AXqm5JnbCNBjE0arI0cj1SFF-FWiJA

26b0f1261d1a0d916825bd0deeb96a21
0 · January 22, 2012 at 2:23 AM

@ Meredith, ha!!! This is why I will regulate the banana-hammocks to three days per week, plus extra special sexy-times! I don't want my husband to get the "scrotum-crazies," which is a medical term that I completely stand behind and have no credible sources for. "Scrotum- Crazies." That's it. I will explain in my book.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · January 22, 2012 at 2:12 AM

Lyndsay - Hi, I am a straight married lady who happens to "like" your style. For the record, though, Quilty Quilt KRUZE has only copped to speedos while stripping down in a department store to everyone's "AMAZEMENT" while ordering a lowly sales clerk to "clean up" his old clothes to the song "Crazy". I suggest you sit down to a BIG mug of megalomania tea to rethink your take on super small and tight undies for men! – http://jackkruse.com/the-leptin-rx-faqs/

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · January 22, 2012 at 2:11 AM

Lyndsay - Hi, I am a straight married lady who happens to "like" your style. For the record, though, Quilty Quilt KRUZE has only copped to speedos while stripping down in a department store to everyone's "AMAZEMENT" while ordering a lowly sales clerk to "clean up" his old clothes to the song "Crazy". I suggest you sit down to a BIG mug of megalomania tea to rethink your take on super small and tight undies for men!

26b0f1261d1a0d916825bd0deeb96a21
0 · January 22, 2012 at 1:35 AM

He may actually be a Dalek.

26b0f1261d1a0d916825bd0deeb96a21
0 · January 22, 2012 at 1:23 AM

Thanks, Nance, I insist that my husband wear banana-hammocks at least three times a week. I feel it lends a great deal of primal sophistication, even if he is just sporting them pantless during a rigorous session of "Zelda." I can overlook this and pretend that he's a gent, reading his nightly Dickens by our imaginary, bricked over, fireplace.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247
0 · January 22, 2012 at 1:16 AM

@Lyndsay, +1 for including Speedo in your comment.

26b0f1261d1a0d916825bd0deeb96a21
0 · January 22, 2012 at 1:15 AM

Oh, wait, two things, um... well, he wears Speedos, which must mean that he has a great deal of European-brand of confidence!

26b0f1261d1a0d916825bd0deeb96a21
0 · January 22, 2012 at 1:11 AM

Um, okay, well let me see... hmmm... he lives in Nashville, which is a great music capitol. One of my favorite places to visit!

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247
0 · January 22, 2012 at 1:09 AM

@Kamal, no no the best part was the "bosom of Hostess" where I personally spent many years. :-))

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · January 22, 2012 at 1:02 AM

Yeah, now you have to say two good things about Dr. Kruse :) That Rumplestiltskin bit was pretty creative though, I must say.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · January 22, 2012 at 12:58 AM

Lyndsay, we appreciate your participation here, however, it's not generally a good start for your first comment to have a somewhat negative vibe to it. How about a more benevolent contribution to the site before dropping bombs?

26b0f1261d1a0d916825bd0deeb96a21
0 · January 22, 2012 at 12:45 AM

Actually, he attacks many people personally. Yes, I have a "style" that involves communication beyond a kindergarten level. Have fun in the army.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247
0 · January 22, 2012 at 12:42 AM

@Lyndsay, you can say you disagree and you can criticise grammar and presentation--although I think the message is more important myself. You are free to post opposing studies and opinions. In my opinion, the "style" of your answer above is more likely to drive people away than anything Dr Jack says or does. He doesn't attack people personally, he just expresses opinions about their questions. Your only interest here was to attack him as a person. Minus one.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · December 29, 2011 at 8:48 PM

How much time did you spend googling the Quilt's prose? How many were actually his own ? Why do you really care? Spend more time cooking! :)

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596
0 · December 29, 2011 at 6:17 PM

I could see that with some of the short snappy phrases like "Chase beauty. Adore mastery," but it appears that in some of the longer passages that the phrasing is so precise to the original that he must have been looking at the original when he copied them, not just going off a remembered phrase or quote of a forgotten source. To look up a passage in somebody else's book and then pass it off as your own writing is pretty bad. If he has that person's book open in front of him - why not credit them?

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a
0 · December 29, 2011 at 8:53 AM

I mean, some of these are verbatim!

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a
0 · December 29, 2011 at 8:52 AM

Oh my! Fair enough everybody is influenced by others work but this is just plagiarism! I would be worried about a law suit if it were me.

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a
0 · December 29, 2011 at 8:51 AM

Oh my! There's being infulenced by others work and just plain plagiarism! Bit creepy.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63
0 · December 29, 2011 at 6:15 AM

He should plagiarize more, because whenever he tries to talk about something original (leptin) he's always wrong.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · December 29, 2011 at 4:39 AM

"SIN"? "Army"? .....

499f188c87c6980742b9ba98caa6f563
0 · December 29, 2011 at 4:26 AM

Sounds like Quilt is a very well-read fellow! But it's a fine line between fruitful allusions and pedantically footnoting every reference. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone! An army travels on its stomach!

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · December 12, 2011 at 1:09 PM

@Brad: ??? I try to answer comments/questions on my blog. Did I miss something you asked?

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e
0 · December 11, 2011 at 9:46 PM

Carbsane, Im curious as to why you so frequently answer questions here, but don't answer them on your own blog. If you're going to throw a party, at least be a good host.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1
0 · December 08, 2011 at 6:18 PM

I think it is important to leave the quality of someone's writing intact, because it can help a person judge the credibility of the source. I'll edit tags or titles for search, though.

19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349
0 · November 27, 2011 at 10:17 AM

When I was sick and my own doctor didn't help, I went to look for a cure on my own, and that's how I found Paleo. I doubted for a long time, after all, it was just random people online, credentials or not. But I did my research, and you know what? I could have believed it or not, tried it or not, but the outcome depends only on me. Those people put the information out there, true or not, and it was up to me to delve into it if I so wish. I'm sure plenty of people feel the same way about The Quilt.

19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349
0 · November 27, 2011 at 10:14 AM

Anyway (continued), I'm not defending The Quilt. I'm sure he puts ideas out there because he has great curiosity, but limited time. I'd rather SEE his ideas, than NOT see them. It's up for me (and you) to decide what to do about it. You can shrug him off as a quack. You can blindly believe him. Or you can do neither, and, if you are interested, start your own research based on the information he shared. Whichever way you put it, I can't see how he's at fault. He's here like any of us. Hate him if you want, Love him if you want, or don't care less. Doesn't matter.

19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349
0 · November 27, 2011 at 10:11 AM

Please don't quote me on this... I'm just sharing things I've read. I was reading Ina May's Guide to Breastfeeding/The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding. can't remember which right now. I get books from the library so I don't have it in front of me. Anyway, that book said that 1) women who breastfeed have less risk of breast cancer (nursing = nipple massage?) 2) nipple massage can be used to induce labor. 3) nursing the baby causes the uterus to contract and heal quicker. I believe it was stated these things had to do with oxytocin. I'm pretty sure the book listed sources. Anyway (continued)

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52
0 · November 15, 2011 at 3:40 PM

woops, I thought the first few comments about her being in high school was because this is a high school popularity contest type question...lol. Better worded than "would you go out with quilt...check yes or no", but definitely along the same lines.

C0cf19329f850011e66d1ccfa7d10896
0 · November 13, 2011 at 4:34 AM

I have heard Rosedale saying that one must first know where they are starting, as it is excess ferritin that mediates the damage of excess iron, and it is ferritin that one must bring down. I have not even heard one person suggest getting a ferritin test first?

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84
0 · November 12, 2011 at 11:44 PM

Resources in the above could be vitamins, or enzymes or hormones. (comment was too long to fit in properly.)

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84
0 · November 12, 2011 at 11:42 PM

What's so hard to understand about this: SURVIVABILITY = (Energy – Growth&immunity expense) X RESOURCES X efficiency X (awareness of our environment) Survivability depends on energy. Subtract that used for repairs, immune support, or growth. Then, multiply this by the limiting factors. If low on resources, survivability goes down. If you're broken, you're inefficient - at digestion, energy use, etc., survivability goes down. If you're unaware of your environment (look out for that bus that's about to run you over!) your survivability goes down. So easy a cavedawg can understand it!

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6
0 · November 07, 2011 at 7:26 PM

@Asian Grok: I doubt even very smart people. To not do so is to be intellectually empty.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb
0 · November 07, 2011 at 6:15 PM

Comment to Eugenia's answer further up the this thread. http://paleohacks.com/questions/74180/thoughts-on-dr-jack-kruse-aka-the-quilt/74432#74432

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 07, 2011 at 6:08 PM

@Matthew - where do you get that from?

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb
0 · November 07, 2011 at 8:31 AM

@Patrik: I think Quilt may be just deliberately annoying you here. Quote:"I only lie to akd matthew mallory melissa patrik and shari cause it aggravates them. When i dont i use bad grammar and punctuation because they are tight asses."-The Quilt

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb
0 · November 07, 2011 at 8:31 AM

Patrik: I think Quilt may be just deliberately annoying you. Quote:"I only lie to akd matthew mallory melissa patrik and shari cause it aggravates them. When i dont i use bad grammar and punctuation because they are tight asses."-The Quilt

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 06, 2011 at 10:35 PM

Good job! Somebody here is finally taking moderation work seriously :) +1

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 06, 2011 at 10:33 PM

Good job! Somebody here is finally taking moderation seriously :)

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 06, 2011 at 10:21 PM

@maj - that is correct

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 06, 2011 at 10:18 PM

you really suspended me, lol !

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 06, 2011 at 10:16 PM

I am suspened, lol

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6
0 · November 06, 2011 at 7:09 PM

@Asian Grok: I didn't question his intelligence or drive. There are a lot of smart people floating around here on PH.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 06, 2011 at 9:37 AM

the ban hammer, lol... you didn't warn me before btw. I guess its hard to keep the track when you are aggressive toward so many folks...

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 06, 2011 at 9:35 AM

@Patrik: the ban hammer, lol... you didn't warn me before btw, as far I remember.

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a
0 · November 06, 2011 at 7:19 AM

@sherpa idk about anorexia but bulimia to me is obesity + purging. you say work on the mental aspect, i say work on the nutritional aspect first. that's what i did, and eventually i had no more cravings nor excess appetite. i didn't need to purge or go apeshit with my exercise, and lost my weight naturally.

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a
0 · November 06, 2011 at 7:19 AM

im new to paleohacks but i have to say, majkinetor is the TRUTH. too much hate towards someone who has contributed a ton. in fact i found PH thru Dr. K's blog. :D

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a
0 · November 06, 2011 at 7:18 AM

For all you critics: a quote from Teddy Roosevelt "It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming"

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a
0 · November 06, 2011 at 7:16 AM

GREAT POST (and show of common sense)

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a
0 · November 06, 2011 at 5:53 AM

I understand the need for cites/studies. But in medicine there is an understanding that NOT everything about the human body or patient is known or completely under control. That is where "experience" comes in, where formal research has not been laid out yet and we cannot explain why something works in essay form. This is my problem also with alot of fitness industry buffs, i.e. guys like Lyle McDonald, Alan Aragon etc who try to interpret raw studies too much and miss sight of the big picture. If the science never lies or confuses, why do they continue to advocate grains/fructose?

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a
0 · November 06, 2011 at 5:36 AM

Dr. Kruse is obv a big picture, intuitive guy and intakes a million pieces of data/experiences, tries to make something out of it in a few hrs. He's onto a lot of big things that only a very smart guy can fathom, but maybe hard to find the specific sources (if there are any) to back him up. Also, if you guys don't like his grammar (he is busy), why not contact him and volunteer to spell check his work before sending it out? its not that hard...

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a
0 · November 06, 2011 at 5:21 AM

yes he may not be an eminent "research scientist" but given Kruse's path to becoming a neurosurgeon WHILE OBESE all his life, i'm sure the guy is incredibly driven and smart. for those of you who don't think so, MD is competitive enough. he's top of the food chain here. i think he's given health/nutrition lots of thought even before paleo probably. don't doubt him just because most ppl aren't that smart

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a
0 · November 06, 2011 at 5:18 AM

lol you clearly have not been around surgeons. Kruse is prob one of the most helpful people, who spends his time contributing ONLINE (because the internet is a better way to disseminate info than via his mouth). as a med student, 90% of the surgeons i know are flat out overworked assholes. give the guy a break, and take his work for what its worth. he's NOT obligated to answer your questions anyways, you are incorrect that he has to even answer you if you ask q's.

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a
0 · November 06, 2011 at 5:14 AM

idk if its just me, but you guys at PH seem so unappreciative of his work and time. if any of you want to change his grammar, then shut up and contact JACK KRUSE. and offer to volunteer editing his blogs before he sends them out.

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a
0 · November 06, 2011 at 5:13 AM

Cmon guys he's a busy neurosurgeon. do most of u even have a clue how demanding that is? he writes those posts often in a hurry (he comes out with one every other day for a few weeks since this summer, i was thinking HOW did he manage to do this?). he's not some no-life intellectual who will spend 5hrs writing a post, he's almost free-flowing. i admit its complicated but im a med student and i can understand his discussions on endocrinology

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a
0 · November 06, 2011 at 5:10 AM

As a current med student myself, I can ACTUALLY understand the medical science behind Kruse's complex posts, not all but enough to validate many of his points regarding endocrinology and how hormones feed back upon each other. Sure he makes a few grand statements, but its cuz he's in a rush and often talking from EXPERIENCE. he doesn't need to cite every statement, people. if he's wrong, move on. starting this blog is only in the spirit of discouraging people from standing out and spearheading. hating is unoriginal, no matter how clever you are. and gtfo with these youtube links

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a
0 · November 06, 2011 at 5:07 AM

man this is such a waste of space you people, 53 comments and almost nothing about whether Kruse is reliable or not. just half-lame jokes and people who look like they live here. a buncha piss ant naysayers talking smack about someone who actually runs his own practice of optimizing nutrition, and spends his time divided between NEUROSURGERY and blogging about paleo. you guys are a bunch of intellectual phoneys who tread softly. Me, I'd rather listen to someone with vision and guts.

016de26fe61daf799662d3b7b2468324
0 · November 05, 2011 at 5:31 AM

+1 - I liked this answer the best.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 05, 2011 at 3:28 AM

leptin reset zombie horde?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 05, 2011 at 1:49 AM

That is why I did it. And I post it because the people at the MDA thread asked for it. I believe to verify that you can look in that thread or ask AdrianaG because I think she was the one who specifically asked for how i did it.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 05, 2011 at 1:48 AM

This perception problem you have slow is quite amazing. This is how you perceived what I wrote. I actually added the price to make the point that no one including me was going to plunk down a lot of cash for something that would not fit on one of my legs when I bought it. The point was I knew then when I was fat precisely what I was going to do and buying the jacket was no risk. It shows how one has to control how you think to really change your DNA. I spent the money to make a point to myself. To challenge myself to put up or shut up. Did I believe the leptin Rx would work? It did.

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74
0 · November 05, 2011 at 1:41 AM

good oone, agree with 2nd point

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 04, 2011 at 8:21 PM

Sheesh. I mean that his clutter is far worse than all the other quality FREE blogs out there. What did a donate button ever do to you?

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6
0 · November 04, 2011 at 8:08 PM

JayJay: Yes. That almost exactly what my doctor told me when I was discussing some current research on lipids with him. It led to an interesting discussion on the roles of the clinician and the scientist.

9759643ce5d97ab8fa649ae954656c4c
0 · November 04, 2011 at 7:57 PM

The more optimal I get, the more I strip down in public and yell about how awesome I am. I can change people's lives with my thoughts, I'm sofa king optimal!

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52
0 · November 04, 2011 at 7:36 PM

Evidence based medicine takes into account current research ALONG WITH clinical experience AND patient preferences....so, no a clinician is not a scientist. The scientist relies almost solely on the research. Nothing inherently long with either, but they have obvious different lenses through which they work.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 04, 2011 at 4:44 PM

I didn't find the button sending me to his post on Psychology Today either. He must have removed it right before I got there.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 04, 2011 at 4:43 PM

I didn't find the button sending my to Psychology Today either. He must have removed it right before I got there.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 04, 2011 at 4:42 PM

Hi All! Thanks for getting it ;-)

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 04, 2011 at 4:42 PM

I didn't find the button send me to the posts on Psychology Today. He must have removed it right before I got there.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 04, 2011 at 4:28 PM

It was a joke. I already know what was meant by the comment. Obviously, some deep-seated issue having to deal with the mother, or maybe kindergarten.

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a
0 · November 04, 2011 at 4:14 PM

I think the "haters" are more concerned (amused) with the mega egotistical way the story was told. That and the fact you dropped your clothes on the floor and expected the shop assitant to pick them up. Oh also the fact you mentioned how expensive the suit was, is that really necassary? I can tell you for free it doesn't put your character in a good light AT ALL. Well done for the improvement in grammar however.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 04, 2011 at 3:51 PM

Lol......plus one.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 04, 2011 at 3:51 PM

Plus one edrice.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 04, 2011 at 3:50 PM

Amazes me why the haters dont see why i did this. To get to optimalyou must think differently than you did before when you got suboptimal. I would have done this ten yrs ago because i did not think this way. I do now

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 04, 2011 at 3:46 PM

Keeping going steve and youll get it.

C1e8065a94267d0668294287d67fd3e3
0 · November 04, 2011 at 3:05 PM

"Not believing in" something does not make IT wrong. If I "don't believe in" gravity, will I not fall to my death if I step off a cliff and land at the bottom of the Grand Canyon?

C1e8065a94267d0668294287d67fd3e3
0 · November 04, 2011 at 3:02 PM

You want relationship maps and charts? Make some and present the urls to him. I'll bet he'd point to them in his comments sections. I'd never heard of "Palio Hacks" (and its value to the Paleo community, btw) except for reading the comments sections of his blogs.

C1e8065a94267d0668294287d67fd3e3
0 · November 04, 2011 at 2:55 PM

Just look where "legitimate science" has gotten us in the last 50 years! And, as one whose health has been RUINED by "legitimate medical advice" from physicians over the last 40 years, I totally applaud Dr. Kruse's courage to swim with the sharks and bat at their inabilities to understand basic biochemistry! If they went to any kind of good medical school they did "study" biochemistry ... at least bought the books. He is just attempting to get them to go back and READ them.

C1e8065a94267d0668294287d67fd3e3
0 · November 04, 2011 at 2:49 PM

One who cannot or refuses to understand due to intense grammatical errors is fairly close-minded and most likey won't benefit from any attempt to find the optimal course for their health, imho. As a teacher, grammar and spelling was highly emphasized within my educational path. However, when encouraging my students to think outside the box and express their ideas, IN THAT CONTEXT I would not severely "grade" grammar and spelling. As the Quilt often states in his writing on nutrition and health requirements you must be able to understand the CONTEXT in which you are working.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5
0 · November 04, 2011 at 2:18 PM

high comedy right there Loon. well played.

9cb1f345eb342eee51a8fc44ffe66184
0 · November 04, 2011 at 2:10 PM

Thanks... that is not enough, now I want optimal! heh heh

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 04, 2011 at 1:44 PM

Who said anything about Indians? This was a worldwide phenomenon going back into paleo times.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 04, 2011 at 1:34 PM

You lost 179 pounds? I'm guessing you've heard this a time or two, but...congratulations!

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb
0 · November 04, 2011 at 1:08 PM

Not very fair on the Indians...

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a
0 · November 04, 2011 at 1:04 PM

That clothes story is HILARIOUS. He is like a walking spoof. I swear one day he's going to let us know this has all been a joke, for a spoof documentary, he should get a cameo on "The Office"

98148e265e1a9b27ce1c206190c1b8a4
0 · November 04, 2011 at 12:28 PM

Extremely unsavory. of course there is nothing wrong with him telling his story, by all means, reveal your character!

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5
0 · November 04, 2011 at 8:02 AM

this thread has served it's purpose but i believe it has run its course now. let's archive it.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5
0 · November 04, 2011 at 7:49 AM

I'm with WCC Paul here.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5
0 · November 04, 2011 at 7:49 AM

I support you here Paul.

A2fe5bbd09c7804fd321e9e9a9f9d199
0 · November 04, 2011 at 7:21 AM

this is not about PH alone, but all too common on boards and blogs. it's a given that everyone packages their content differently. but too often comments are directed at the packaging itself rather than the content, and then slide into comments against the motives of the packager based on the style of packaging. that often speaks more about the commenter than anything else. it's also counterproductive for environments made for efficient and quality information exchange. energy waste, including my own comments here

98148e265e1a9b27ce1c206190c1b8a4
0 · November 04, 2011 at 5:56 AM

of course there is nothing wrong with him telling his story, by all means, reveal your character!

98148e265e1a9b27ce1c206190c1b8a4
0 · November 04, 2011 at 5:50 AM

yeah, i think people shouldn't submit people who are paid, and therefore cannot tell you what they're truly thinking, to the sight of yourself in your skivvies. You are obviously too, uh, determined to understand the subtlety of this point of view.

05055dcbf12c81f1cce777ec365870af
0 · November 04, 2011 at 4:48 AM

tartare, um, there's nothing wrong with his accounting of his own story. maybe you just think people, or "doctors" should act a certain way to fit into your belief system of what's right and wrong. anyway i'm not trying to convince you because you're obviously, shall we say, determined.

98148e265e1a9b27ce1c206190c1b8a4
0 · November 04, 2011 at 4:01 AM

from his website. i rest my case.

98148e265e1a9b27ce1c206190c1b8a4
0 · November 04, 2011 at 4:00 AM

I put the pants and put the jacket on over my bare chest. I saw about 35 people watching the whole miracle unfold for Sara. I put my shoes on, threw Sara my AMEX card, and left her a tip. After I checked out, I left all my clothes on the floor, right there. Sara called to me and asked my if I wanted my old clothes. I told her, “No, this new guy thinks a new way on this brand new day.”

98148e265e1a9b27ce1c206190c1b8a4
0 · November 04, 2011 at 4:00 AM

Eleven months later...I asked her if she remembered me as I handed them a picture of me as a fat ass buying the jacket for 5K on my iPhone. She stood there with her mouth open wide and could not believe her eyes. I was now 6’2” and 197 lbs. I dropped my jeans, pulled off my sweat shirt, and pulled the plastic off the Brioni jacket I had bought from Sara. I stood there in my Speedo underwear as I asked Sara to get me a pair of Brioni pants to match my current attire. She quickly obliged. I distinctly remember Seal was playing in the background, and acoustic version of “Crazy.”

98148e265e1a9b27ce1c206190c1b8a4
0 · November 04, 2011 at 4:00 AM

Loon, its ALWAYS about Doctor Kruse: Dr. Kruse: "I distinctly remember going into a Nordstrom Brioni store and buying a size 42 R royal blue blazer for $5,000 when I was currently wearing a 50 L sports coat. The person I bought it from thought I was out of my mind that day. Her name was Sara and she was from Croatia. I told her what I told everyone else. It is not crazy when you know what is coming.

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e
0 · November 04, 2011 at 3:36 AM

@Joe - I agree that ignoring certain situations can be the best solution but for me, someone who is pretty damn chill, it was time to give my .02 as others had done. Even I get fed up on occasion and this whole thing felt weird, like some sort of experiment. Now, what I'd like to see next is if we can get half the people who posted to this original thread, who very much have opinions, to actually start giving reasons on why they downvoted on a question... hmm!

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e
0 · November 04, 2011 at 3:12 AM

@Joe - I agree that ignoring certain situations can be the best solution but for me, someone who is pretty damn chill, it was time to give my .02 as others had done. Even I get fed up on occasion and this whole thing felt weird, almost like Mari is Quilts daughter and they are doing some sort of experiment. Now, what I'd like to see next is if we can get half the people who posted to this original thread, who very much have opinions, to actually start giving reasons on why they downvoted on a question... hmmm!

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e
0 · November 04, 2011 at 2:02 AM

Agree @Loon - your question and statement. @Joe can you expand?

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e
0 · November 04, 2011 at 2:01 AM

@Joe - I agree that ignoring certain situations can be the best solution but for me, someone who is pretty damn chill, it was time to give my .02 as others had done. Even I get fed up on occasion and this whole thing felt weird, almost like Mari is Quilts daughter and they are doing an N=1 experiment. Now, what I'd like to see next is if we can get half the people who posted to this original thread, who very much have opinions, to actually start giving reasons on why they downvoted on a question... hmmm!

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e
0 · November 04, 2011 at 1:57 AM

@Joe - I agree that ignoring certain situations can be the best solution but for me, someone who is pretty damn chill, it was time to give my .02 as others had done. Even I get fed up on occasion. You know, hiding isn't always the best policy. We're all here to share and learn, right? You can't really do that constructively by being negative - and I felt my little voice needed to be added to the pool. Now, if we can get half the people who posted to this original thread to actually give a reason why they downvoted on a question...

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e
0 · November 04, 2011 at 1:53 AM

@Joe - I agree that ignoring certain situations can be the best solution but for me, someone who is pretty damn chill, it was time to give my .02 as others had done. Even I get fed up on occasion. You know, hiding isn't always the best policy. I mean, look at all the downvotes that nobody will pony up to doing + giving a reason why. Nobody wants to cause a fight, when their reasoning could be given in a clear concise manner. It's weird. We're all here to share and learn, right? You can't really do that constructively by being negative..

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e
0 · November 04, 2011 at 1:43 AM

Holy crap - look what happens when I leave for the day. Bananas! SPICY banana! Cross dressing! Tasty food! Exfoliating pee! And is "swinging in" the same thing as a key party? I am proud to accept the Teflon prize, thanks Kamal! Just trying to bring a little levit-ayyyyy with a side of the serious. And hugs.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 04, 2011 at 12:55 AM

Oh ... and Aravind, we're good :-)

2b2c2e4aa87e9aa4c99cae48e980f70d
0 · November 04, 2011 at 12:47 AM

Yes Loon, a real paying patient! Break out those honey marshmallows guys. Salud!

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb
0 · November 03, 2011 at 11:26 PM

While it might not have frozen over, it has at least gotten a bit chilly :)

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 11:25 PM

The Loon...worthy adversary :)

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 03, 2011 at 11:13 PM

"psychic pronouncements of motives via internet"? I wonder what you mean by that. Yes, sometimes it is hard to read all the nuances.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 03, 2011 at 11:10 PM

Oh, you mean the paypal button is in the second paragraph? I'll have to look next time.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 03, 2011 at 11:03 PM

@adriana, a real paying pt? I am just a defender of poor communication.

B1fcaceba952861d0324bdb291edbbe0
0 · November 03, 2011 at 11:00 PM

Woohoo welcom Kamal! * hands a parcel of sticks * For the paleo marshmallows AdrianaG wants .... Heya AdrianaG :).

3a567c1637db69f1455ce35e78201a2c
0 · November 03, 2011 at 10:45 PM

sounds like a case of too many "safe starches" going on.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 03, 2011 at 10:44 PM

@sherpa, it looks like over at mda there are several with BED who are finding the reset helpful.

2b2c2e4aa87e9aa4c99cae48e980f70d
0 · November 03, 2011 at 10:04 PM

Is there no end to your venom, CarbSane?

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 03, 2011 at 8:01 PM

Thanks for taking the time, Lucas.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 7:41 PM

@Aravind: I just checked. Hell hath not frozen over just yet. >8)

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 7:41 PM

OK David, now please explain how there are different levees to the Leptin Reset Quilt or whatever.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 7:36 PM

Yep ... appears I did. I was responding to your #2 possible Quilt respons. Sorry 'bout that! LOL on the "all look alike" thing. I'll play my dumb blonde card here. :) This is a long thread!

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 7:32 PM

@Quilt: Nowhere do you put your credentials first? Umm ... are you for real? There's something about that Neurosurgeon on the blog homepage that says otherwise.

1d9af5db8833413037be3ac48964714f
0 · November 03, 2011 at 7:19 PM

levee |ˈlevē| noun an embankment built to prevent the overflow of a river.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 7:16 PM

@Ev-CS - Now I am agreeing with you AND Travis. Bizarro world^2. Jokes aside, let me also state the same in public. I enjoy seeing your participation here. Would like to put our past disagreements behind us also.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4
0 · November 03, 2011 at 7:14 PM

And @majkinetor, I really don't see what you're implying there. Even *after* I just cleared up the confusion and exonerated everyone in this situation you're still suggesting some bad intention on Mari's part? Or are you suggesting that the "careful wording" is some evasion from Quilt? I don't see any reason to believe that any of these three people -- Quilt, Mari, Paul -- was up to anything underhanded or mean-spirited.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4
0 · November 03, 2011 at 7:09 PM

OK, perhaps "miscommunication" is the wrong word. Perhaps I should have said "mistake." But there are elements of miscommunication: reasonable assumptions made given certain circumstances (Facebook versus blog versus email, etc.), and so on.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 7:05 PM

And Kamal is a cross dressing white dude

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4
0 · November 03, 2011 at 7:02 PM

OK, miscommunication is perhaps not the right word. I probably should have said "mistake."

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 6:23 PM

Thank you for saying this Travis. Twas not necessary as I've let that water flow under the bridge, but MUCH appreciated. :-)

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 6:16 PM

I know akd. She is totally cool. I also know WCC Paul. Fun trivia: he looks like a younger version of Dr. House. Also, in real life Aravind is exactly as he appears on here. Interpret that as you will.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 03, 2011 at 6:11 PM

@maj -- watch your language or I will drop the ban hammer on you. I have warned you before.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 6:11 PM

@tartare: Since the first time I visited Jack's website it just struck me as "Jack Kruse, Neurosurgeon!" and in my mind it's like a movie announcer saying NeuuuroSURGEON!! We've had some fun with it on my blog and call him Leptin Man. Here's my high tech photoshop of our superhero: http://tinyurl.com/leptinman I absolutely do not get those who think that he can scream doctor and claim expertise, then say well, he's just old Quilt and has no reputation/credibility to uphold. Sigh.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 03, 2011 at 6:02 PM

Nice to see Jack Kronk cut through the Gordian Knot of all of this.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 5:58 PM

@Loon: What he lacks in any "clutter" is made up for about a paragraph in to any post.

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 03, 2011 at 5:50 PM

Evelyn, I should take this time to say that I agree with most of what you've written that I have read (specifically about body fat regulation etc.) and that I consider you a valuable addition to the paleo/fat loss/human health & nutrition communities. Your total lack of tolerance for BS is also refreshing. That all being said, my conduct in that exchange on Peter's blog is more than a little embarrassing in hindsight, to say the least, especially since I now would probably completely agree with what you were saying then.

2b2c2e4aa87e9aa4c99cae48e980f70d
0 · November 03, 2011 at 5:41 PM

"Just a big miscommunication, that's all. No need to assume anyone was in the wrong" No, it was most definitely not a "miscommunication" Paul Jaminet was wrong, unintentionally, but wrong nonetheless. He then recognized that he was wrong, acknowledged it and apologized. Not a miscommunication...

68f2734a5078a7106f560a7079df45fd
0 · November 03, 2011 at 5:40 PM

For instance, this week I have been eating: Omelette (3 eggs + 3 egg yolks + white onion + spinach + cheese + "home-made" sausages). Low temperature, with abundant olive oil. Whole cream + 100% cocoa + stevia (optional, blueberries) Or A big piece of fatty beef w/olive oil Spinach, onions, tomato, 1 large avocado, mushrooms w/ salt, lemon and vinegar. A couple of nuts. I have ran out coconut oil, so I have been using olive oil to cook instead. I also include fish and seafood on weekends, as well as some starch from white rice now and then. I eat a lot of salt too.

68f2734a5078a7106f560a7079df45fd
0 · November 03, 2011 at 5:34 PM

Travis and Kamal: I keep my diet simple: high fat, moderate protein, low carbohydrate. Fat is predominantely saturated/monounsaturated, carbohydrates are commonly from berries. I eat by hunger, which most days means 1 meal with approx. 20h fasting. I tend to repeat my foods for a couple of weeks until I get bored, so my diet in general is cyclic and technically not paleo.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 5:33 PM

Quilt: You do neurosurgery, correct? That's a specialty, also correct? PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong but I get the impression from your blog/comments that you do spine and mostly neck surgeries. Right?

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 5:30 PM

+1 Travis. Nothing like being accused of calling someone LC based on their own writing and being told you're confused because you're too lazy to wade through every word on his blog.

A2fe5bbd09c7804fd321e9e9a9f9d199
0 · November 03, 2011 at 5:29 PM

"How do I handle it? I just don't read his posts. See? Easy. Let it roll off." Unfortunately even to post in this thread isn't exactly letting it roll off, right? (same goes for me) From my experience the absolute best response is *none* in these kinds of things... i.e. when a community supposedly existing for high quality information exchange degrades into exchanges in other unrelated dimensions - icon preservation, iconoclast backlash, group psychology, psychic pronouncements of motives via Internet text, and so on. Let's stay on point and recognize no one *truly* knows anyone else here.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 5:16 PM

Oh jeez ... I just read this: "I did not expect my email to go jimmys blog......" What?? Wasn't that the point? He's a blogger Jack!
"but i did not care that it did either because the science on igf1 and cancer is clear unless your blind" -- then why do you recommend eating so much friggin' protein?

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 5:11 PM

Also, how are they going to get fixed if they don't know what's broken? The recs are then just stabs in the dark, and more and more expensive ones at that.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 5:10 PM

No Adriana, that's not what I said. Getting back to Quilt being about science and not opinion, if he's going to recommend these supps, he needs to back that up with some proof that they actually work in attainable doses. When someone gives you a list of supplements -- let's just say even five -- you try them at what doses? All at once? Etc. Here is where Paul Jaminet shines b/c he WILL cite studies to support recommendations, and if you have an issue I've seen none more generous with his time to share his knowledge than Paul.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 4:36 PM

@E-CS - I was not suggesting the error rate was anywhere close. But again we are agreeing. Cease and desist!!!

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 4:04 PM

what has been said has been said. excellent. now we know where we all stand. quilty will continue to rock on. we will continue to hack his ideas with healthy skepticism and a watchful eye. patrik and the mods will run PH as they see fit. done and done.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 03, 2011 at 4:03 PM

OK, now you guys are getting really creepy. Tartare, this question IS all about the Dr. Q. All the lofty preaching and outrage by a nasty subset of folks here make this site creepy and even more unvisitable by most normal people. Meanwhile, all the real action has moved over to MDA. I think it is just lots of hatred, jealousy and envy.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 4:02 PM

hey folks look you are all bringing up good points. it's amazing how debate turns people on each other. hilarious too, that by tomorrow, in some other thread, ya'll will be agreeing with each other and complimenting each other again. let's go back to reality. patrik has an awesome site here with PH. nothing is perfect, but jeez. As Kamal said, stackexchange is fantastic, and way better than most systems. Also, PH is a great resource and it's biggest flaw is that humans are involved. This thread is kinda evidence of that. lol (tongue in cheek sarcasm there ;)

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 3:58 PM

can't we all just get along?

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 03, 2011 at 3:48 PM

Thanks AdrianaG. When I first read random comments here about it, I thought, huh?, but then I looked it up, and yes, there is plenty of science behind what he says. (Not grease.)

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e
0 · November 03, 2011 at 3:41 PM

Let's try to be civil about this. Nobody is perfect - we all have our flaws, and make mistakes - even on Paleo! I think it's a valid post. We shouldn't put anyone on a pedestal. We should agree to disagree. We should be open to changing our beliefs - now that is evolutionary!

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6
0 · November 03, 2011 at 3:06 PM

A clinician will read a lot of research papers from particular disciplines in search of new information to digest and synthesize into existing ideas, but he or she is not automatically a research expert in those fields.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:57 PM

Mentioning the word "banana" anywhere on paleohacks is like shining the Bat-Signal for Aravind. He will swing in, deftly and with a well-crafted line.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:35 PM

Ms Juba - spicy banana...is that your new nickname for me? Not in public, please!

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:32 PM

@E-CS - looks like you confused Kamal and me since he has not commented on this thread. Indian dudes all look the same so it is completely understandable :-)

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:26 PM

ITA agree AdrianaG but still...

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:19 PM

JJ - I bet your food is killer. Also, pee is supposed to be great for exfoliation.

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:10 PM

A neurosurgeon does surgery and is not necessarily a research scientist. The point I'm trying to make is the methods of the clinician versus the researcher are different. Not every clinician is a capable research scientist, though some doctors do live in both worlds.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:05 PM

His "n" key sticks.

2b2c2e4aa87e9aa4c99cae48e980f70d
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:58 PM

I'm fairly new around here. Is it my imagination, or does Kamal come running at the mention of nipples;>)?

2b2c2e4aa87e9aa4c99cae48e980f70d
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:41 PM

Now it's Jack's fault that the supplements that he recommends are expensive??? He is dealing with people with broken metabolisms, or people who want to optimize their bodies. These are people who in all probability will never reach 100% due to the ravages of years of CW. He is pretty clear that most LR people can get fixed without the testing and the supplements; it will just take them a lot longer to get there. Everybody has to their own personal cost-benefit analysis.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:29 PM

Drinking pee is thought to increase one's athletic potential in certain parts of Brazil. Just google "Lyoto Machida pee" for more details. Also, very cool post. You are now jesuis "teflon" juba.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:28 PM

Drinking pee is thought of as a way to increase your athletic potential in certain parts of Brazil. Just google "Lyoto Machida pee" for more details. Also, very cool post. You are now jesuis "teflon" juba.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:18 PM

Good catch AdrianaG! The danger of not using commas. I am editing the question to make it not out-of-context.

2b2c2e4aa87e9aa4c99cae48e980f70d
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:11 PM

-1 Doc for misspelling my name ;)

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:00 PM

Yup, with careful wording everything is right :)

Af005ec9a8e028f2b04bf5367b64e0d6
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:50 PM

A neurosurgeon sure as hell better be a trained scientist.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:08 PM

Ooooh! Quilt just said I'm right 100% of the time! Even I don't think that >8) Here's the rub on correctness. You make an error, you fix it if it's big enough to matter. That's about one's reputation. Jack if you don't care that your writing is so awful it tanks your credibility despite whatever the substance might be, it seems no amount of advice from folks here is going to sway you. It makes a big difference. I've seen some prominent bloggers and published scientists do real mea culpas. Admit you were wrong, move on. Have you ever admitted you are/were when challenged?

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:02 PM

AND also the very people you are listing who you are insinuating think they are 100% right, NEVER say they are! From an "outsiders" point of view they are always, rational, questioning and humble in their opinions, which are also attributes that Robb Wolf has, hence why he is so popular. Take note.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 11:59 AM

@Melissa, perhaps he's not as hard assed and thick skinned as he pretends to be.

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a
0 · November 03, 2011 at 11:58 AM

and potentially dangerous.

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a
0 · November 03, 2011 at 11:57 AM

@Quilt - So you do lie? Any ounce of credibility that you have had left from me has just been lost there. You are either A. Lying yourself because you are embarrassed at the uncovering of your not so factual facts, or even worse, B. You have been lying on a public forum to annoy people despite knowing that a lot of people have trust in you and will read those comments as truth! That's awful!

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 11:55 AM

And then if it doesn't work for them we're again in this la la land of caloric denial. Only for you if you're LS calories don't matter. That is a joke Jack. I may not have mega threads but I have received emails from people who finally realized that calories count, started counting them, and after being stuck doing low carb or just Paleo or whatever have finally lost the weight. Usually slowly but surely. These are those "nobody else tries to help but you" types. Many of them don't need yet another pie-in-the-sky based approach, they need the truth.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 11:51 AM

Quilt, perhaps it's because as a formerly obese person myself, I am bothered by the advice out there on the internet. Your program will work for people because it is a protein rich VLC diet. No snacking and no eating late in the day and you've got a mini-IF combined with the satiety of protein and VLC. Folks have nothing to lose following that advice. After that? Well there's the laundry list of supplements you suggest, some horrifyingly expensive. While you won't profit from them (like some others) doesn't make the advice that sends desperate folks to opening their wallets any better.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 03, 2011 at 11:48 AM

True adrianna. Plus one!

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 11:42 AM

Quilt cont: Bottom line, you have NO backing for your Mg claim so you'll go off on this receptor or that enzyme and how we should take this or that supplement. As for rat studies? You say you read my "chaotic blog". Surely you've noticed the numerous studies in humans I've discussed there.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 11:39 AM

Quilt: As regards "people like carbsane think everything a doc does needs a cite ... We mesh science with the art of medicine and if youre not facile with the art of medicine you get a carbsane world where rat data trumps experience." YOU are the one who says you rely on science Jack. YOU are the one making claims based on your supposed extracurricular reading of the literature. When YOU say "XYZ always happens" your readers presume you got that from somewhere and that there's the science to back it. When I asked, you balked, were rude and eventually blocked my comments.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 11:33 AM

@Aravind: You make a good point, but I do not find KGH's error rate to even approach that of Jack's. And I'm sorry but the failure to capitalize proper names, I and not use apostrophes comes off as a ten year old IM-ing. It's fine for a quick comment here or there, but on his blog?? He also elevates the incoherence level using those "levees" and talking about the view from 30,000 feet.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 11:30 AM

Hi Karimoo: Yes, it's more stressed these days, as it should be. I wasn't even required to take a basic comp class in college. I did take technical communications. I only had to write perhaps a handful on non-technical papers in all my four years. (I am not quite as old as Kruse so he would have been schooled in a similar era.)

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 11:01 AM

@All: If Quilt wants to leave his MD at the office then he shouldn't go around discussing his clinical experience and blaring "Neurosurgeon!" on his blog. Thing is if he did leave it at the office nobody would listen to him.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 10:59 AM

@Kamal: How will he respond? Looks like he took option 2. Tell people to f*ck off ... well, not that exactly. More like kiss his hardened ass.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4
0 · November 03, 2011 at 8:49 AM

Not bad research at all. See Paul J's comment below to Grace's answer. Just a couple of hours before Paul posted this answer he and everyone else still thought that Quilt had been fibbing. Then Paul realized he had made a mistake. Just a big miscommunication, that's all. No need to assume anyone was in the wrong -- especially not Mari.

2b2c2e4aa87e9aa4c99cae48e980f70d
0 · November 03, 2011 at 8:35 AM

By the "other side of the coin" he may be referencing extremely thin people. He has mentioned numerous times that LR is a problem with overweight AND underweight people. I assume the HIV reference is to the wasting that AIDs patients exhibit.

2b2c2e4aa87e9aa4c99cae48e980f70d
0 · November 03, 2011 at 8:23 AM

"not one of you have ever sent me your insurance card or co-pay?" Just me, doc. I drove 4 hours each way for the priviledge and would do it again. Did I look you up on Rate my MDs and other similar sites and check with my Nashville contacts? Yes. Were you perfect? No. Knowing that, I went and feel privledged to have access to a rare resource in the medical community. Do I still double-check your advice to me? Hell yes! It's my job as the patient. Like he says, medicine is a mix of art and science, not black and white and lots of shades of gray and plenty of shadows.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 03, 2011 at 8:18 AM

Ah... how things can turn opposite way in a sentence or two... Mari, bad research ?

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 03, 2011 at 8:17 AM

@Patrik: Dude, you are overreacting. Stressed out? 2 tbsp fish oil in the morning and evening, with magnesium and cannabis. Then come back and we will talk :)

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 03, 2011 at 8:15 AM

Yes, such a love story we have here. Nice background Edward.

2b2c2e4aa87e9aa4c99cae48e980f70d
0 · November 03, 2011 at 8:13 AM

And if somebody would come up with a paleo version of a marshmallow it might help take the bad taste out of our mouths that is left by this whole discussion.

2b2c2e4aa87e9aa4c99cae48e980f70d
0 · November 03, 2011 at 8:11 AM

I'll have a glass of Argentine Malbec, ;>), please. Maybe make it a double, since I might be the only person here who has actually been a paying patient of Dr. K's.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 03, 2011 at 8:10 AM

@Kamal: I never heard about elderberry before tbh :) Feel free to ask me anything about it, you can find me on G+

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 03, 2011 at 8:06 AM

@Quilt: *Maj......you still think open source is correct choice for me?* Not for you, for everybody - we as society need to lean toward non-copyright, open information world. You can find ways to contribute even now: http://www.ted.com/talks/jay_bradner_open_source_cancer_research.html http://www.xconomy.com/national/2011/04/11/open-source-biology-deserves-a-shot/ http://hypothes.is/

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 03, 2011 at 8:04 AM

@Quilt:*Maj......you still think open source is correct choice for me?* Not for you, for everybody - we as society need to lean toward non-copyright, open information world. You can find ways to contribute even now: http://www.xconomy.com/national/2011/04/11/open-source-biology-deserves-a-shot/ http://www.ted.com/talks/jay_bradner_open_source_cancer_research.html

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 03, 2011 at 8:02 AM

@Travis: I am not sure I follow you, what is the point ? That carbs are not important regarding vitamin C, that C should be taken no matter your carb input or that C goes better with some specific carb setup ? As far as I know, hi carb doesn't play nice with C (i.e. http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/2005/pdf/2005-v20n03-p179.pdf). Non glucose sodium dependent vitamin C transporters (SVCT) may change that, but I even remember reading that glucose may block SVST via unknown mechanics but I need more research into it.

89e238284ccb95b439edcff9e123671e
0 · November 03, 2011 at 6:58 AM

Dr.K, I understand your comment and I should (and will) add to my 'answer' that i meant difficult for ME. I was doing good, without thinking too much about what I ate. And then I worried again about supplements and so.

2b2c2e4aa87e9aa4c99cae48e980f70d
0 · November 03, 2011 at 6:46 AM

"You nipples will become very sensitive and help you you do two things........one nipple massage will reduce your risk of breast CA by 50% because of the sensitivity to oxytocin......it immediately causes a surge of intramammary progesterone that stops all estrogenic growth.......and two it will help you sleep more soundly because of the increases in oxytocin and melatonin spoken of earlier......" Dr. K's nipple quote is being presented out of context to make it appear ridiculous. The "one" before "nipple massage" was a sequential reference, followed by "two" later in the comment.

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703
0 · November 03, 2011 at 6:41 AM

http://youtu.be/hmGQ5SlazJA

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703
0 · November 03, 2011 at 6:39 AM

http://youtu.be/E2VCwBzGdPM

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 03, 2011 at 5:56 AM

@TheQuilt -- WTF are you blabbering on about with "And you better think about that long and hard cause its true. No one opinion is greater than any other poster even if you try to change the rules now......."????

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 03, 2011 at 5:55 AM

@TheQuilt -- I don't have any "lackeys" --- I do have amazing and selfless moderators who keep PaleoHacks awesome. And you're right, I do run & will continue to run PaleoHack as I see fit.

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 03, 2011 at 4:56 AM

I can't believe he did this in a thread alleging that he does this. What I *really* can't believe is that I besmirched my own good name by giving him the benefit of the doubt and defending him in that other thread, only to be called a liar for a qualified statement of truth here. **You'll not see that again.** Let his leptin reset zombie horde defend him. I'm done.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 4:14 AM

Or at least he wasn't trying to antagonize you before the last couple posts. Don't mess with the Culpster -- he has a very analytic and precise mind.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 4:08 AM

I have something to ask. Can you be nicer to Travis? He doesn't seem to be trying to antagonize you, moreso just being curious.

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 03, 2011 at 3:56 AM

I've edited my post to include a quote by you in June where you said you were VLC. Who's making up what? Do I need to follow you on Twitter to get your up to the minute carb intake?

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 03, 2011 at 3:39 AM

Did I make up the results of that paper that shows carb restriction lowers leptin? Is that part of the protocol?

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 3:23 AM

* joins party, uninvited *

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705
0 · November 03, 2011 at 3:11 AM

I don't think the Leptin RX would help anyone with an eating disorder. Speaking as someone with Binge Eating Disorder (which isn't even always recognized as an "official" disorder) I know I had so much more to fix than most. Once I got a handle on the mental part, then I was able to work on the nutrition portion.

9e20abb05f3f6e3cc4bb107f8980aecd
0 · November 03, 2011 at 3:06 AM

Quilt, I apologize, you're right. Here's my apology: http://paleohacks.com/questions/74180/thoughts-on-dr-jack-kruse-aka-the-quilt/74515#74515.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:59 AM

And if akd did misunderstand it's, well, understandable.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:51 AM

Very gracious of both of you.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:40 AM

Jack, could you take a moment to clarify?

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:39 AM

...and unusual patterns of fat distribution of that excess fat and on the extreme other end, one could point to the example of the extreme weight loss associated weight loss of HIV"

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:38 AM

Maybe Jack would be willing to explain what he meant. Here is the exact quote:"Moreover, people with dosordered leptin function have major body comp and fat deposit issues. See any HIV patient as a great example of the other side of this coin." To me, it sounds like he's saying a problem with leptin regulation or sensitivity means that there will necessarily be a problem with the amount and placement of body fat. The term "the other side of the coin" could mean "the opposite example". What I think he *meant* was that "on one hand, leptin problems can mean extreme weight gain

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:34 AM

While I didn't find anything indicating that leptin could be responsible for regional fat deposition in women, I would be interested in reading more if anyone uncovers it. He then says "...people with dosordered leptin function have major body comp and fat deposit issues" It could perhaps be more accurately stated that disordered leptin signaling appears to occur on a continuum as does fat deposition.

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:30 AM

WCCP: Haven't really looked into it, but I just avoid those things that I'm allergic to. The allergies are slight but annoying. I'm allergic to all raw tree nuts but roasted ones are fine. I have that damned latex-fruit syndrome without the latex part (that I'm aware of) so all of the awesome fruit causes a reaction due apparently to the chitinases. I imagine that cooked fruit is also fine. I'll look into that salicylate thing.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:25 AM

Thanks Paul but you did not have to do that. As long as you and I know that is all I care about.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:23 AM

I love Donkey Kong!

179469bf8f4ca01b8eeb274b31e1c49c
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:21 AM

Sorry, but no it doesn't say that.....You INFERRED HIV infection = leptin dysfunction. Don't twist it around just to try and rack up points against the man.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:21 AM

Ha! Me too....had to add an extra period for those pesky counters.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:19 AM

Quilt did say "Leptin control [sic] fat disposition in body parts. This is why women have curves and men dont." While body fat tends to increase relative to leptin (women have higher circulating leptin levels than men) it's not at all clear that leptin controls the difference in fat deposition between men and women. That appears to be due to sex hormones. (source: http://www.krepublishers.com/02-Journals/JLS/JLS-02-0-000-10-Web/JLS-02-2-000-10-Abst-PDF/JLS-02-2-065-10-084-Mandal-A/JLS-2-2-65-10-084-Mandal-A-Tt.pdf)

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:10 AM

memory loss...prolly leptin related, no?? haaaaaaaa sike

072fd69647b0e765bb4b11532569f16d
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:09 AM

And I find it more than ironic that you make your statement about standing behind your comments while supporting a person who posts the most cryptic and unintelligible comments on PH.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:09 AM

Of course, the ever present douchebags. Hard to forget for sure.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:07 AM

Quilt states that "Leptin control fat disposition in body parts. This is why women have curves and men dont." While leptin is a key player in appetite regulation and fat deposition, (higher circulating leptin is associated with more body fat so women have higher leptin levels) it's not at all clear that leptin is responsible for the *differences* in fat distribution patterns between men and women. Moreover, people with dosordered leptin function have major body comp and fat deposit issues. See any HIV patient as a great example of the other side of this coin.

072fd69647b0e765bb4b11532569f16d
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:06 AM

@maji, again, feel free to disagree. Don't know what it is to "fish cats," and I am certainly no saint. However, I don't make boolshit up and post it on blogs. That's for gosh damn sure.

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:56 AM

treat it a lot...PLEASE direct me to the patients with REAL,,,,REAL anorexia nervosa(not just someone starving themself) who was treated with your RX or advice...

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:54 AM

dont worry quilt i have a body temp in the high 90s everyday, have no problem losing or gaining weight(omg how is this possible!!), dont take coq10, reservatol, k2, D of gosh forbid magnesium etc...dont wake up with a beating pulse and sweating anymore. i actually did close to opposite your recommendations....

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:53 AM

mari, you will be happy when you get to Harvard and surround yourself with intellectual equals. But douchebags too. Don't forget the douchebags.

Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:51 AM

because in the thread that is referenced, "quilt" implied HIV infection ---->leptin dysfunction----->lipodystrophy. and thats not the mechanism. when he was questioned, per usual his condescending reply was to just look it up.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:48 AM

High school is way crappier than this. This would barely qualify as drama. But I still see your point.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:43 AM

@AC......I guess no one saw the sarcasm......including you.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:41 AM

Jules.......dont do this you will get lots of down votes now! Im evil. Plus one for looking up the science. I dont screw around with the science. I can not change a doctor without it. I know it but apparently the lazy people who want me to do all their homework for them dont.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:35 AM

I'm not a bad student! I already had most of those things. But I only had vitamin C in tablet form, so I had to get powder. I did have a question for you though...doesn't elderberry (or something like that) have a positive effect on colds, as evidenced by a teeny bit of trial evidence? Were there things you didn't include on your list for certain reasons?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:35 AM

You keep bringing it back to one comment I made, which is definitely not the topic at hand right now. I closed PH questions (asked by OTHER people) that asked about your appearance because I learned my lesson.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:30 AM

I don't think anything would keep The Quilt away :)

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:25 AM

I knew it! I underestimated you Loon. You are a worthy adversary. (not that you are actually an adversery) It is cool that Quilt has no ads, and I noticed that right when the blog went up a few months ago. Many other paleo bloggers don't have ads, but Quilt is more responsive/involved in his blog commentary than most of them.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:14 AM

@mari, it's cause I can't read. I've got my goggles on for this question and I am too busy to wipe off the bacon grease.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:11 AM

Well maybe you should ask about the randomness instead of putting words in my mouth. It appears you are expert at that and commenting on peoples skin color when you have no context of what you speak.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:11 AM

Great call, Kamal. For casual readers who haven't visited the site, there are no ads. There's no book. There's no seminar. There's no monthly subscription. There's no little paypal donate button. There's no ad you have to sit through before you get the blog. You don't have to sign up for a newsletter and have your e-mail clogged with junk. You don't have to "like" him on facebook in order to read it, in fact, you don't have to like any of it at all.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:09 AM

anything else you want to ask so you dont make up any further? Melissa? anyone?

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:09 AM

Yes, quite .

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:09 AM

and 400 gms a day on june 15

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:08 AM

Loon is also aware (see the comments to the adjacent answer by Quilt) that the null set is a member of every set. Well done.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:08 AM

zero around Dec 21

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:07 AM

Your perception is not my reality. And you better think about that long and hard cause its true. No one opinion is greater than any other poster even if you try to change the rules now.......

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:07 AM

Quilt- I have to agree with you! Lucas is a smart cookie. I'm glad I'm sort of equatorial in ancestry and do well with coconut products. Although truthfully I've never seen if there is a strong correlation between those two.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:07 AM

Wait, who's Paul? Haven't tried it out yet. I'm mostly wary of these claims that salicylate sensitivity without amine sensitivity is very rare. And cutting out both (failsafediet.wordpress.com) looks very, very intensive.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:06 AM

See Patrik this is where you are wrong.......there is no duty i have to you or anyone else. That perception is yours and the other lackies you have here. After I came here you made rule about MDs. Prior to that there were no rules. You had a problem with what I was doing. And you changed things to suit you. Remember you have told us its your ballfield and we have to play by your rules. Here on the net I am not your doctor or anyone elses. You are not paying me and I dont give you advice. I give ideas and thoughts without a doctor patient relationship. There is a big difference

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:03 AM

Oh no, it's Paul and the Salicylates! Paul, how has your low-salicylate experience been thus far?

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:58 AM

Travis is it just coconut oil or have you looked into salicylates? Or do you think the salicylate thing is nonsense/very rare. Ever looked at amines/histamines?

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:58 AM

ha ha!!!! I knew you could figure it out

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:56 AM

greasy? I think its about prolactin and other hormones. It's not sexual advice, its hormone advice.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:56 AM

LOL This answer has zero face validity. Lets be real here.

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:54 AM

I'd be downing that crap if I weren't allergic. A feel a leaky gut segue coming on.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:54 AM

I am NOT against the Leptin Rx. I have recommended it to many people. It is your random comments on the internet that often are very questionable, not your holistic philosophy.

Da3d4a6835c0f5256b2ef829b3ba3393
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:53 AM

You're thinking about and possibly keeping records for length of threads on internet forums and blogs? LOL, shine on you crazy diamond.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:53 AM

Oh, I agree, Loon. But it's the view from the inside that drives it. Or at least that's what I think is going on.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:53 AM

CO because he is smart to do so. His blog is one of the best out there in paleo land. I read him all the time.

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:51 AM

Kamal: I predict a lot of coconut oil.

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:49 AM

What's the lowest that it goes?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:47 AM

Again my comments there were not given in proper context so again your perception bias was allowed to color your responses. It is clear to me and to others where that is as well. Macros have never matter to me.......and for you to say so means you have no idea of what I really think. The Leptin Rx is based upon circadian cycles. It does not focus on macros and never has. If you asked you might have known that without making a guess. I have been very clear in saying macros for the most part are worthless. You and some others dont feel that way. Im fine with different views.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:46 AM

Also in Wenda Trevathan's book I recall she mentions that women who have more stimulation to their nipples might have an easier time breastfeeding because they won't be as oversensitive there.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:40 AM

My carbs change dramatically with light cycles for the last 6 yrs Travis.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:40 AM

you guys realize that if enough people vote to close, the question will close? It takes 5 close votes to close the question. The moderators are humans and we don't always know what questions should be closed. Most of us were unsure about this question, but if we vote at all, it closes automatically and there is no community input. Help us out by voting/flagging etc. instead of complaining.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:40 AM

As you can see, I survived my time out and am going again.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:39 AM

And it appears melissa needs to read more about MSG. Again clinicians do not need to wait for a researcher to do a RCT on MSG. The papers out on in our literature are not good. It needs to be cut from the food supply. Travis in the summer pre Sept 15 200-300 depending upon the day of the week and my weight/run schedule. Right now I am on my dial down because we are approaching light change this weekend. I will be at my lowest carb intake for the yr Dec15 to Jan 25.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:39 AM

Wrong. You asked the most famous question ever on paleohacks ("Hack my wife's vagina") and had the funniest homeopathy reply ("I just bought all the homeopathy cures at the local health food store and poured them down the toilet. Now the entire Great Lakes system will cure everyone immediately..."). You will be missed more than at least 72% of paleohackers. Sad to see you go!

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:37 AM

@Rose, the public has no respect for the Tribe. 20 out of 20 for diet plans, even worse than Atkins? How can anybody get a worse score than Atkins in public opinion? How can the Quilt make 20 out of 20 worse?

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:30 AM

Yes, please do. It's a convention on paleohacks to tell us what you eat, especially if you have a cool blog.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:27 AM

u r smart duh. .

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:23 AM

Lucas: Would you mind sharing what you actually eat in a day?

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:19 AM

Loon may have been making a subtle and complimentary joke. I've seen this type of very subtle joke from Loon before. Quite skillful.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:17 AM

Hold on, you're that guy with an awesome blog, aren't you?

98148e265e1a9b27ce1c206190c1b8a4
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:16 AM

No, that is the easiest reply, isn't it?

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:11 AM

Nice! .

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:09 AM

^lol. There are so many things to be said to that but I'll refrain to avoid Patrik's wrath.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:03 AM

Whoa- how is it even possible I was mentioned here? Holy crap. I mean that sincerely.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:01 AM

The suspense is killing me.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 11:59 PM

LOL...............tartare I wish I cared what you thought. But I dont.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 11:58 PM

I dont have any ads on my site?????

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 11:58 PM

i dont have any adds? A new idea?

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596
0 · November 02, 2011 at 11:45 PM

Quilt you were just plain wrong and were cold busted in an open forum, but you come back and here and try to pretend otherwise. Is there any wonder why people don't trust what you say at times?

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596
0 · November 02, 2011 at 11:34 PM

Quilt, Jimmy included the content of the email that he sent everybody as part of his post: http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/is-there-any-such-thing-as-safe-starches-on-a-low-carb-diet/11809, so maybe the question about who has a clue or not is still up in the air or maybe you got your own very specieal phantom email from Jimmy that nobody else got (you are so special). You also said in your answer that you had read Dr. Harris's response. So where exactly is Harris's cancer advice that you have called "madness?" Was this a phantom email too or a phantom blog post?

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1
0 · November 02, 2011 at 11:32 PM

Agreed x 100000

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 11:27 PM

Awesome punnery in your username! (Ella Fitzgerald)

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad
0 · November 02, 2011 at 11:26 PM

they were very disappointing since before the Rosedale debacle it seemed you were being more reasonable about macros.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad
0 · November 02, 2011 at 11:24 PM

Your comments on the safe starch debate suggest otherwise.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 11:04 PM

I also dont advocate a one type of diet for anyone.....that is again your perception. Since i deal with disease constantly this is why your perception is altered. You never asked me once precisely what i have done since i repaired my own hypothalamus you just guessed. You have been quite guilty on this count and your red skin comment was a pretty big tell to me about your own biases. Im glad some one texted me that. I have been clear that i look to find out how an epigenetic switch is set with testing. Then i adjust the diet. You dont know how i do it so you mock it. That is what i see.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 11:00 PM

Point one....your perception of what i am is yours. Not mine. Im no low carb doctor. I use a large armentarium to get to optimal. Medicine is not rigorous. If it was no one would be on a statin or taking a bunch of meds that work 50% of the time. Medicine is an art and science in harmony. Your boyfriend signed up for rigorous as a phd candidate. I can alter people with my mind and my clinical skills. You and many others here fall prey to thinking research papers are a lot better resources than clinical expertise. On this we completely disagree.

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:51 PM

@majkinetor: I'm not offering medical advice. There's a difference.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:48 PM

And it was before i had a blog.....

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:47 PM

Paul i posted something on your wall about longevity and you asked me about it and then asked me if i would send it to you. I promise on both of my kids lives. It was under jack kruse on your facebook wall and youmeven commented that you found the ideas interesting. You may not even realize we are friends on facebook and i have followed you since your book was published. But i promise you we spoke about this in comments on faceboook. This was not done on a blog it was done on your wall

9e20abb05f3f6e3cc4bb107f8980aecd
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:43 PM

Quilt, I never asked you for anything for my blog. Nor have I asked anyone else who has his own blog. The only people I have ever asked for guest posts are people like Mario Renato Iwakura who leave very insightful comments on my blog, and who I think deserve more visibility for their ideas and their contributions. If you have something to say, you have forums on which to say it, and if I think it's something my readers should wish to read, I can point them to it on my Saturday Around the Web posts.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:42 PM

And oliva you might care to know neurosurgeons wrote the book on the pituitary and how it functions.......hilarious hpw little some of you experts really know.

9759643ce5d97ab8fa649ae954656c4c
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:39 PM

I know none of us can prevent paleo from becoming a mainstream disaster — naturally the loudest voices will be the ones that get heard — but I can't just stay silent and watch the train wreck either. (Instead I will troll comments with my offensive humor.) ;-)

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:35 PM

Wrong.....post where the science is wrong chief. Make a list and check it twice because i will be ready. Yall dont like how i do things.....and im cool with it. And i am not changing for the audience here. I do things for audience that others alienate. You all are doing a fine job of that daily.

9759643ce5d97ab8fa649ae954656c4c
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:35 PM

You get -1 when you downvote someone else. BTW, I'm not a hateful person in the least. Sarcastic and crass sometimes, yes. I hold Q to a higher standard, seeing as he seems to be posturing himself as a gatekeeper for a movement that needs no leaders. The idea that his greasy, unsolicited online sexual advice might be what people stumble upon while initially researching paleo is more than a little disconcerting to me. The fact that there's a growing number of people who defend his communication failures as "misunderstood genius" is also alarming.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:33 PM

But dont let that stop you chief. Stir the pot.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:32 PM

And after reading shari's comments it is clear she has not read my blog or my comments on my blog or the MDA thread......i freaking rec testing before anything. You have an axe to grind and you are totally FOS. As for me pushing credentials....you are also fos. No where to i put my credentials first. I find your comments most offensive because you are completely FOS and there is ample proof on the net that i dont do what you perceive. I think some doc pissed youmoff and i am now your whipping boy. Well its on like donkey kong because this doc does not like being mischaracterized.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:26 PM

I guess he answers emails just not comments?

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:22 PM

Also loon- what is sexist??

98148e265e1a9b27ce1c206190c1b8a4
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:19 PM

Criticism is never very easy to take, but it can be helpful for realizing there is a disconnect between your intentions and the effects of your actions.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:19 PM

I'm not sure this is the kind of publicity I'd want, personally. But whatever floats your boat, and at least you're not sending me angry emails or anything (yet).

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:17 PM

@Kamal: Oh no...you have stumbled upon my secret...

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:15 PM

oooh! Being RIGHT is contagious! I never knew.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:14 PM

@Meredith, Harris mentioned on the Jimmy's safe starch blog that he and others are making fun of Kruse in e-mails to each other, or something like that. It was a cheap and cowardly shot.

98148e265e1a9b27ce1c206190c1b8a4
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:12 PM

If you're so busy in your clinic that you don't have time to say something cohesive and meaningful, maybe you should reassess what is the most constructive thing for you to do, and, in fact, limit yourself to actually being a clinician. That or just start posting as Joe Blow Anybody, Not an MD.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:10 PM

BTW I love the fact that in an answer on PaleoHacks, I actually defend The Quilt, and the Quilt bites the hand that defends him. Classic irony (you couldn't script this stuff). Doesn't reflect well on you Quilty.

98148e265e1a9b27ce1c206190c1b8a4
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:10 PM

To me you smack of first and foremost, self importance and self aggrandizement. If you don't agree with this point of view, you should perhaps re-assess the way you go about things. It's pretty clear that a lot of people are bothered by more than your grammar or your disjointed thinking. What a lot of people are bothered by is that you advertise LOUDLY that you're a doctor, and that you've done so much research and yet, whenever you answer someone, you don't pay attention to what you're doing.

98148e265e1a9b27ce1c206190c1b8a4
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:07 PM

I mean, you mention all the time how you're a neurosurgeon and doctor.

98148e265e1a9b27ce1c206190c1b8a4
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:06 PM

lol, yeah Quilt, it's all about you. That's really what I think you're failing to perceive in people's questioning of your means. A lot of the time, you skim, you blow over things and still, you recommend very specific things. Theres a thread on MDA where you mistake ED (EATING DISORDER) for ED Erectile Dysfunction after some woman leaves you a 4 paragraph post. He's DigitalSurgeon http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread40491.html you never even bothered to fully read her post! If you're skimming things and not fully reading them, maybe you shouldn't be giving advice as a doctor.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:03 PM

Sorry, the Loon, it is impossible for me to edit a comment.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:03 PM

technically, how sexist is that, Kamal? But, we are all working to our personal bests. How many people ran out of upvotes today?

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:02 PM

OK, let's hear it: How many grams of carbs do you eat per day?

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:01 PM

Hey, I did my part. I clicked on every one of the ads on your website.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 9:58 PM

I rarely edit, and I don't care, cuz I no dat smart peeps ken fgr it out.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 9:56 PM

@grenadine, thanx for the explanation. I just thought my enemies came in pairs. How do you just get -1?

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4
0 · November 02, 2011 at 9:38 PM

I only edit typos in the titles of threads. Makes the board look a little cleaner, making for a better impression on people who are new to the scene.

B1fcaceba952861d0324bdb291edbbe0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 9:36 PM

Yay! You rock. * dubs you honorary wine bearer *

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 02, 2011 at 9:35 PM

How many grams of carb do you eat per day?

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628
0 · November 02, 2011 at 9:22 PM

Oh anyway I just noticed it's been made community-- so no votes count anymore. That shoulda been done right away for a "question" like this.

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628
0 · November 02, 2011 at 9:20 PM

Oh anyway I just noticed it's been made community-- so no votes count anymore.

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628
0 · November 02, 2011 at 9:19 PM

@Loon 1 downvote = -2 points -- just letting you know. Looks like for now, just 6 ppl disagree with you. Not too shabby considering it's a mere 10% of the ppl that upvoted the question. Me, I'm not even voting on this thread b/c it's opiniony instead of helpy. No, wait, I did upvoted some comments for entertainment value - but those votes don't count.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 9:15 PM

Technically, it's mari's record. Very precocious for a 16 year old. Not a bad writer either.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 9:15 PM

And since Matthew is Kamal's friend, that makes Kamal 100% right. And since I am Kamal's friend....

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 9:15 PM

Technically it's mari's record. Again, very precious for a 16 year old. Not a bad writer either.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad
0 · November 02, 2011 at 9:14 PM

I still do some things under a pseudonym. I use a pen-name for all my fiction because it often contains elements of real life ;)

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 9:13 PM

Quilt- you accidentally stumbled upon something there. The one person on that list who is always 100% correct is Matthew. In my time here, I've never seen anything from him that is false, an exaggeration, or a logical fallacy. Must be something in the water out in Scotland.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 9:11 PM

We all believe we are 100% correct? This is going to get complicated but try and stick with me - sometimes silence is the best response.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 9:09 PM

or here where I gave you props - http://paleohacks.com/questions/50633/paleo-3-0-thoughts-on-dr-ks-new-post/50652#50652

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 9:09 PM

Quilt - you obviously didn't read what I wrote here - http://paleohacks.com/questions/74337/what-is-jack-kruse-aka-the-quilt-right-about/74342#74342

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 9:00 PM

No......it makes others feel better to tear down others instead of helping the other tribe. This is how the tribe rolls adam. Get with it. Remember it is patriks joint! Plus one by the way.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:58 PM

Is there anyone out there a 100% correct besides aravind, shari, carb sane, kamal, patrik and melissa? And eugenia i do try my best to answer questions im asked. I only lie to akd matthew mallory melissa patrik and shari cause it aggravates them. When i dont i use bad grammar and punctuation because they are tight asses. Plus one!

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:53 PM

One of you have ever sent me your insurance card or co pay? Lol

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:52 PM

There are a few disingenuous people here......they have asked for things i would not give. I have a choice. My goal is not to help PH. Its to get docs to help treat the inhabitants of ph when they need us. There is a huge difference. I like helping people even if they dont understand how i do it. There is a huge disconnect here. People dont come to my office and ask me how i clip an aneurysm or perform a fusion or discectomy before they decide what to do. They want to know how to get better and never ask about how to put a screw in or how to open a head. Only here we do this and not

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:48 PM

Nance....honestly i like it.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:46 PM

Leptin is not just a hormone.....its receptor is more important than the hormone level. People who do not know the complexities of leptin think its all about leptin level......enter travis, woo, mallory etc......go read amgens data and realize why they dropped synthetic leptin.......the answer is not in leptin but the receptor. 600 million dollar bet gone south.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:45 PM

@TheQuilt -- "There is no higher burden i carry because of who i am." is incorrect. You are a physician with moral & legal responsibilities different from most of us. You also have a polarizing style that affects PaleoHacks. Right now, it is a net benefit -- but if it goes net negative, I will protect the PaleoHacks community as I see fit.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:44 PM

Travis i voted you down because you assumed im low carb......you are wrong and got the down vote for assuming than asking.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:43 PM

We also cant reach a tipping point unless we re sharing ideas on our blogs and in our comments. For me the comments there are often better than the posts because it is here where you see how a clinician tackles a problem...people like carbsane think everything a doc does needs a cite. This is why she is marginalized by many. We mesh science with the art of medicine and if youre not facile with the art of medicine you get a carbsane world where rat data trumps experience

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:43 PM

@Quilt --- wow, you are so obstinate & emotionally sensitive it is ridiculous -- FOR THE RECORD: I THINK YOU HAVE SOME INTERESTING & POWERFUL IDEAS that a) you do a painfully poor job of communicating b) demand further investigation. As such I HAVE DEFENDED your presence on PaleoHacks >>>EVEN WHEN I THOUGHT YOU WERE WRONG<<< when everyone was calling for your head. Bottom line: YOU ARE YOUR OWN WORST ENEMY.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:38 PM

Maj......you still think open source is correct choice for me?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:37 PM

Plus one to you and grace

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:37 PM

This was kind......thank u!

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:36 PM

Lol. Plus one shah!

792634a784ec6a636c3137d0903e11b4
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:36 PM

+ 1 here, too. There are many, many well qualified people teaching and advising in this paleo arena, most of whom still identify as learners and explorers. I love following the processes of people like Robb Wolf when he gets a question he doesn't know the answer to. I guess I need to see that process in order to be able to evaluate the validity of the answer.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:35 PM

I made paleo difficult? Are some of you blind? You seem to believe that eating paleo alone is a perfect cure......go to mda, robbs site arts site.....infact any site. There are people who do shitty with paleo 1.0 and 2.0. My focus is on them......not the 68% who fall into what most other bloggers are writting for. I write for the people who are getting no answers and ready to bail on paleo.I pull them back. Paleo is not easy for some and that bias on this very board is very offensive to some people. I like those people because they seek change.if you eat paleo and r well im not ur guy

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:34 PM

Jack, I'm still waiting for the multiple choice question. Isn't you conclusion question more yes or no? Does that really qualify as multiple choice. Isn't it just "Choice". Nontheless, Good luck on your blood test. Never has a blood test been anticipated by so many.( I was too young to remember Eisenhauer's heart attacks.

792634a784ec6a636c3137d0903e11b4
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:32 PM

Great answer, AKD. Like you, I'm not an expert in the science, but I intuitively don't trust people who become abusive or dismissive when they're questioned. I prefer the approach of the other paleo teachers who are interested in sharing what they know and admit to what they don't yet understand.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:30 PM

This just made me laugh. Someone who believes a dogma who I called bullshit on it tactfully on my blog...funny. The pituitary gland is my domain. I treat this a lot. You do what you do and dont ask me for any further advice. Pot meet kettle.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:30 PM

I guess the definition of schools depends on locale

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:28 PM

No matter how much foam was produced in various mouths, I do not think the original post was written in a biased way. It looked to me like a list, made up almost entirely of quotes. Whether you think the post was worth it or not is a whole other issue, and the responses may or may not be to your liking depending on where you stand.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:27 PM

If she said one nice thing i would have disaapointed. I am now relieved.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:26 PM

Patrik if i am such an ass why did you privately contact me for a hack? Seriously dude i have no issues with criticism. But you are not paying me for anything. Im sharing ideas. You can read them and move on. There is no higher burden i carry because of who i am. I have a choice to help who and when i want. I want to help jack k because ithink his case can help others. Personally if he does not want it.....cool by me. I dont carry his burden he does. You dont like my talk.....sorry. I post on a phone and an ipad when i have time. And i leave my cooments open to people who want it

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:26 PM

I hope that he'll treat our comments as feedback, and respond smoothly. I'm interested in hearing all that he has to say, but hate having to puzzle out the meaning of his typos.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:23 PM

@Quilt -- FYI you are not a "heavy hitter" -- "heavy hitters" don't have to refer to themselves as such. Same goes for "people persons" etc etc

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:23 PM

I think Quilt is showing more maturity than a number of the critics who foamed at the mouth while typing comments on this thread.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:21 PM

@Maj -- what does this nonsense EVEN mean? "Thats just buisnis dude, as usual with managers" --- PaleoHacks is FREE SITE that you and a helluva lot of people use to ask & answer about Paleo diet.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:21 PM

If he did, that is totally awesome. It's like Blagojevich making his way through the talk show circuit (not saying that Quilt is a douche like Blago, but you know what I mean).

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:20 PM

You did not see the question i was asked so you do not have a clue.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:19 PM

Let's cut through the b.s. and immaturity and focus on the only important issue - did Quilt upvote the question?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:19 PM

Eric....you are spot on. And i do like KH and SG but i dont think i agree with them 100% of the time and i know they dont with me. It does not bother me. My goal is to change clinical medicine. Neither one of them are practicing clinical medicine so they are not my focus. I like reading their thoughts but i think like a clinician and not a researcher or a person who reviews clinical papers and does investment work and some diet consults. I see diseased patients hack them with labs and operate on some. My approach is quite different than both and my insights are different. Different is ok

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:15 PM

o my jeebus. we're famous!!!

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:12 PM

The thread wasn’t about osteoporosis though. Osteoporosis was brought up as an example of how high of doses have been given to people pharmacologically. The question was how much K2 should the average person take. I quoted Guyenet about how much one could get from food. That’s a pretty standard context in the Paleo world. I don’t see where it would be “remarkably funny” to bring this point up. This is all pretty trivial, but it is an example of Quilt going all scatterbrained in the middle of a discussion. I don't read his blog so maybe it doesn't happen much there, but it happens a lot here.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:11 PM

The Quilt is woven out of kevlar :)

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:11 PM

I can say that personally, having an MD attached to a name carries absolutely no weight with me.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:07 PM

wow, more than 10 downvotes. Don't I get a badge for that?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:03 PM

Doctor paient relationship is a two way street. Rest assured I would not accept some from this very thread if I had the choice.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:01 PM

Putting K2 into a clinical context is not something anyone else has done in the blogosphere.....why? They dont see patients. I tell you precisely how i use it. You take it back to your doc......because that is where change occurs

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:53 PM

@Kamal: nice....what about other 95 things? Zinc, ehinacea, Q10... don't be bad student.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:52 PM

Busted! I am the Quilt. But I don't know that I'm the Quilt, so it's like Fight Club.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:50 PM

@Kamal: *Resveratrol will kill you?* Just ask that bastard Ray Peat

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:48 PM

@maj: I'm waiting until I need the Rambo protocol to try it out. I've got the ascorbic acid powder locked and loaded.

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:47 PM

Just read it. Osteoporosis is the disease being discussed in that thread. Kurt Harris isn't mentioned. Quilt was saying that K2 levels are chronically low in the population, and that the max used in clinical osteoporosis treatment contexts is >50mg. He recommends more K2 but chooses to not be more specific without knowing more about the contextual variables. That seems reasonable to me.

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:47 PM

Maj: If you get a free moment at some point, do you think you could write up a topic about how people shouldn't be choosing whether to be taking vitamin C based on their carb intake. It seems to be a prevalent paleo meme. I was going to put something together, but I realize that you're far more qualified.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:47 PM

Of course Kamal, I didn't think its a bible of good relationships and thoughtful thinking.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:45 PM

AHA, you talk opposite things from 1 moment to another. You are just the same as Quilt :P

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:44 PM

@Kamal: *Maj...are you being sarcastic?* I thought you didn't lose your sarcasm sensors ? I may be wrong, but I think I remember you said few days before something like that :)

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:43 PM

@Kamal: Maj...are you being sarcastic? I thought you didn't lose your sarcasm sensors ? I may be wrong, but I think I remember you said few days before something like that :)

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:43 PM

@Kamal: *Maj...are you being sarcastic?* I thought you didn't lost your sarcasm sensors ? I may be wrong, but I think I remember you said few days before something like that :)

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:42 PM

@Kamal: *He started this ginormous website that answers over 9,000 questions about the paleo diet?* Thats just buisnis dude, as usual with managers.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:41 PM

Maj- It's just a thread on an internet forum. A highly contentious one, but still just a thread that does not appear to be written in a mean-spirited way. People answered on both sides of the issue. Overall, not so terrible. Is this convincing at all? I like my new nihilist persona.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:37 PM

Resveratrol will kill you? Ack, I need to go do some searching...

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:37 PM

@Kamal: This is not about Quilt, its about principles. **And now I agree,lets not delete this post** . it shows WAY TO MUCH about how prominent members of this fine community think and by what principles are governed

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:36 PM

@Kamal, you obviously not understand: this is not about Quilt, its about principles. And I agree,lets not delete this post.. it shows WAY TO MUCH about how prominent members of this fine community think and by what principles are governed.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:35 PM

And I cannot upvote your comment, I am all out of juice for the next 5 hours...

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:34 PM

Oh, great! Lets then bash him few more days. Let me join: QUILT you biatch... you said rasveratrol is good for anti aging but later i found ray said that it will kill me as it is phytoestrogen and we all know estrogen is not for man and now I have big boobs and I ...

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:32 PM

Do it Jack! Take this hypothetical job as editor.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:32 PM

Thanks Loon, it's the thought that counts!

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:18 PM

Eric, this is the quote: "I think its funny to quote a researcher with zero clinical experience treating a disease that i have seen and treated successfully thousands of time. Remarkable really." It sounds like he meant "disease" to me and it sounds like it had nothing to do with the question. I understand flippant remarks, but I don't think charity extends to when the cancer advice he was criticising doesn't actually exist. After having made the flippant remark, he comes back and says he really was directing it at something that didn't exist. Then he ridicules KGH's medical practice...

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:16 PM

To say that the MD is left in the office is also a bunch of nonsense. He has commented about others for not being clinicians or just reading films (i.e. Kurt Harris), so obviously he thinks it is important. And if you think having MD behind his name is not the basis for his credibility with many, that is again a bunch of nonsense. So when it's convenient, his medical background is relevant, and when it's not, it's not. Ok, now I understand.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:16 PM

@Tom R: -1 is harsh ? At least I stand behind my -1 and always publicly announce it. Anyway, like I said, I can compile list of boolshits for anybody. If I dig deep enough, its probable that I will find something is wrong with you, for instance that you fish cats in your spare time.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:14 PM

@Tom R: -1 is harsh ? At least I stand behind my -1 and always publicly announce it. Anyway, like I said, I can compile list of boolshits for anybody. If you dig deep enough, I am probably gonna find that you fish cats in your spare time.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:12 PM

Quilt-- on the other thread you said "Me, Brent, kevin and a few other big hitters know what our focus is". Who is Kevin? I know Brent is the AHS guy, but I don't know of Kevin. Is the focus to get doctors to change their practices to a more "wellness/holistic" type perspective?

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:11 PM

@Kamal: O yeah ? Dr Rambo protocol ? How it went ? It has 17 citations. (not kidding).

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:09 PM

Maj...are you being sarcastic? Because I'm not sure if Paris Hilton might have a different connotation overseas.

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:07 PM

Paleo2: You can see, though, that he just chose the wrong word with 'disease'; and, further, that he probably doesn't dislike or disrespect Guyenet or Harris. Sometimes when people say stuff that I have developed contrary opinions about, I'll start my rebuttal with a flippant 'That's crazy!' - but my interlocutor usually understand that I'm not literally calling them or what they said crazy. I think we should extend this sort of intuitive and friendly interpretive charity to one another.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:06 PM

There you go Patrik, problem solved, the easy way. No need for office ruining.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:06 PM

There you go Patrik, problem solved, the easy way. No need to damage the desk.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:05 PM

Quilt, please by this book and make Patrik happy: "Anybody Can Be Cool-- But Awesome Takes Practice" http://www.amazon.com/Anybody-Cool-Awesome-Practice-Devotionals/dp/1556610408

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:01 PM

I really don't think Quilt will stop posting. He stated over in the other thread that he doesn't care what his detractors say, and he's just trying to fight the good fight. Regardless, if someone's listing of things you have said in the past prevents you from posting in the future, that is just too bad.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:58 PM

@Kamal: I absolutely love Paris Hilton's best friends forever.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:57 PM

@TheQuilt -- what does this even mean: "It wont be with one of your businesses and docs working in unison. Im just glad there are others under our tent who get what some of us are going to try to fix."???

89e238284ccb95b439edcff9e123671e
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:54 PM

Joe, although I understand your point, my take on things is like this quote: “As a people, we have become obsessed with Health. There is something fundamentally, radically unhealthy about all this. We do not seem to be seeking more exuberance in living as much as staving off failure, putting off dying. We have lost all confidence in the human body.” Lewis Thomas, in The Medusa and the Snail (1979). I like being very healthy, but I don't really care about hacking every little part of my life. And I understand it is a totally different game for people with specific health problems.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:53 PM

mth~ Agreed. I voted to close it. Golden Rule folks...

D3ff004d4a0c42b67cc2c49a5ee9c0f3
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:51 PM

Whether you like the Quilt or not, he contributes. After that, it's up to you, but at least you get something from him. This thread will probably prevent the Quilt and others from contributing. We all lose when that happens. Delete the thread.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:50 PM

I like me some jack k......just saying

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:50 PM

How does Patrik not get what some of you are trying to fix? He started this ginormous website that answers over 9,000 questions about the paleo diet?

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:49 PM

@maj -- I don't understand your comments. Please clarify.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:49 PM

@TheQuilt -- I would LOVE to know how >>>I<<< have failed us. Please enlighten me.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:48 PM

Hold on, I seem to have lost my ability to detect sarcasm. Sorry maj.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:48 PM

[*face-palm] [*smashing my face into my desk] @TheQuilt -- whether or not you want to profit from your ideas is immaterial -- it doesn't matter how brilliant you are if you cannot communicate them appropriately. Robb Wolf & Mark Sisson understand intuitively -- you, for some reason, think you are immune to the vagaries of human emotion and therefore don't have to tune your message to the audience. This is a FAIL.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:48 PM

I absolutely love the paleohacks / stackexchange platform! It's so visually simple, but also involving (dare I say addicting?).

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:47 PM

Maj, im rather enjoying this between surgeries. We are talking about it in surgery this afternoon. We needed some levity with the devastation we are dealing with today

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:46 PM

Eric, it depends on your version of Paleo. Many versions emphasize fat and organ meats over protein and muscle meat. The stakes are low in these specific examples, but these are where I had direct contact with Quilt and just reinforce the general meme started in the examples in the original question. Why did he need to go out of his way to bash Guyenet and to bash me for bringing it up and why did he have to inteject phantoms diseases? He just doesnt' seem all there in his head. He called Kurt Harris's phantom cancer advice "madness". He just has too many phantoms to take seriously.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:45 PM

And for the record.....paul did ask me to do something on his blog and it was before i think i was blogging. He may not remember it but he can confirm it from looking back on his FB wall. I decided not too send anything by email after a long thought about it.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:44 PM

Its better to accept freedom of thought, expression and different priorities, I think... You can always ignore.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:44 PM

WTF does "trained scientist" actually mean?

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:43 PM

Tesla didn't know how to communicate his ideas too. Yes, he FAILED, obviously :S. Until today, nobody understands shit from his equations.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:43 PM

I did not expect my email to go jimmys blog......but i did not care that it did either because the science on igf1 and cancer is clear unless your blind

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:43 PM

@Pathrik: Dude, you also failed. U use forum designed for programmers for diet related things. FAIL ! That is reality! Use adequate tools for the job. If you don't understand that you have lot to learn. Why would I need CODE section on diet site FFS ? You had good idea tho...

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:39 PM

Im not doing this to market something patrik. I have told you that many times. Im out to do one thing.......and im going to do it with or without you. I think you have failed us with this thread but i am glad you left it up. I showed it to several of my progressive MD friends and it began a good discussion about how a paleo tipping point will occur. It wont be with one of your businesses and docs working in unison. Im just glad there are others under our tent who get what some of us are going to try to fix.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:35 PM

Ofcourse Aravind, those are only opinions, no hard feelings. My opinion is that your opinions on this are bunch of nonsense. I didn't left the part, he is MD in his office, he is just another blogger here.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:35 PM

@Korion --- I also have discomfort with this post --- but have not closed or deleted it. If it turns into a hate-fest, I will.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:33 PM

@majkinetor @tempomat -- see Jack Kronk's comment above this one. If the Quilt has great ideas but cannot communicate them, and in fact, alienates people --- he HAS FAILED. This is reality. If you don't understand how ideas spread, you have a lot to learn.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:32 PM

Excellent answer Kronky. Well written too. Maybe Quilt can hire you to edit his blog?

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:30 PM

Paleo2: I think its intuitive that in most cases paleos eat more meat than SADs. Meat and veggies usually replace the carbs that get nixed. Disease was the wrong word. K2 depletion is a condition that accompanies many of the diseases that Dr K has treated. It seems pretty easy to see that he meant something like this. You seem to be taking issue with details for which the stakes are low. I think this is the wrong way to go.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:25 PM

@maj- The original post was quite simple. The poster listed things that Quilt said on paleohacks that do not appear to be true. Like you (or Loon) said before, we could theoretically do this for anyone. If you post enough, maybe I'll start a "Thoughts on majkinetor (aka maj)?" thread :) Although I don't really find anything egregiously wrong from what you write. I've actually pondered trying your common cold routine. But where are the citations? (just kidding!)

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:23 PM

@annie, I would upvote you if I had any votes left.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:23 PM

JakeA - that's good news about dark chocolate. I eat 85% and love it.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:20 PM

Harris also doesn't have any examples of blatant lying (at least that I know of). Do you have any, edited out or no?

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:14 PM

@Lucky too funny, it's harder to dig up stuff on Harris because he seems to have an edit button. I think he's much harder on the "little people", but is more polite when arguing with other docs. I still read both of them.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:14 PM

I do understand, though, why some folks are going after him with such zeal. I think that for those who are invested in the concept of "Paleo," or even the Tribe of Paleo, there's an instinct for gatekeeping at work -- they don't want to see charlatans in positions of power, weakening public respect for the Tribe. Those of us who are less invested in "Paleo" as a concept or group probably find him -- and other figureheads and would-be figureheads -- easier to take (or leave, as the case may be).

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:13 PM

Nice answer. To use your words, well articulated and balanced.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:11 PM

Nice answer Jack.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:10 PM

Perfect answer, Jack. Yes, rather than a referendum on the man, I'd like to see his prescriptions and ideas hacked, just as we do others' ideas. And I love the image of the refiner's fire.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:10 PM

+1 Jack. His bluntness can be demoralizing for some, even if he means well.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:10 PM

folks Patrik is not just talking about marketing in the sense of profiting monetarily (necessarily). I do beleive he was referring to marketing his ideas and himself. Dr K writes article after article on a website blog that is fully intended to help teach people of health and wellness and human nutrition from an incredibly advanced perpsective. Dr K represents the "brand" that he has built and "marketing" himself is definitely a part of the equation.

1ec4e7ca085b7f8d5821529653e1e35a
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:04 PM

Not to hijack your answer Jack, but if you're interested in reducing total blood iron levels Robb Wolf spoke about this in his podcast this week. He mentioned the same idea of either donating blood monthly or so or using dark chocolate as an iron absorption inhibitor. You probably already saw that but I just wanted to let you know in case you hadn't.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:04 PM

Good answer Jack. It would be nice if he can learn and improve but if not I still think he is interesting to have around, with people aware of the points that you raise.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:03 PM

Good answer Jack. I would prefer than he can learn and improve but if not I still think he is interesting to have around, with people aware of the points that you raise.

D5cde8031564f905260ce9aa7a1f5e2c
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:42 PM

Paleo 2.0, I believe Quilt was discussing K2 absorption by folks with compromised guts, not K2 content calculation.

A2fe5bbd09c7804fd321e9e9a9f9d199
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:42 PM

"Dr. K made paleo difficult!" Well, hasn't he been pretty clear that his field is measurably optimal health, longevity, anti-aging etc? Of which he sees paleo as we know it as key but not the only component. I definitely appreciate heavy emphasis on smart testing and situation-contexted supps, and knowing the why's, in order to get a better compass and handle on what's going on with our health beyond the most obvious outward signs or vaguely feeling better.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:40 PM

funny how people can see pettiness and ignore the outright sexism in a post.

072fd69647b0e765bb4b11532569f16d
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:39 PM

@maji, In my opinion, this is the best post. -1 seems harsh, but please do as you feel necessary. To me (and I am no expert), Quilt is a akin to being a "public figure" on this site considering his reputation and number of posts. As in the world of politics, pop culture, etc., when one is a public figure, he/she opens him/herself up to scrutiny. I don't see that mari disrespected Quilt in any fashion. She just put forth a well-researched summary and asked a legitimate question.

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:34 PM

:) Theme song to the motto: http://youtu.be/DMTDsSF_Cjs

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:32 PM

Loon- he said junior high school, which is middle school.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:31 PM

I did't talk about science too, but about effort. @Rex: yes, I do think, I never mentioned stupid tho.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:29 PM

@Kamal: The community is recognized by how it treats its loyal members. In that manner, what this community does now is nothing short of epic fail. 90% of the remarks here deal with mans character.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:27 PM

@Cody, flagged.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:26 PM

I'll check. Thx.

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:25 PM

Eric S, the Einstein thing is trivial, but Quilt said Einstein was his hero and that he had read a biography. It is an example of basic, undisputed facts that he should know but still gets wrong. On carnosine, I asked him directly several times why is paleo anymore special than other diets like SAD that emphasize muscle meat but he just kept repeating how good carnosine was. On K2, nobody was asking how much to take to fight disease, but Kruse made some phantom argument that you need experience fighting disease or else you were somehow incompetent to calculate how much K2 there is in butter.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:24 PM

... and I want my paycheck NOW!

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:24 PM

@Chickenosaurus Res: He is offering opinion. If what you say is true, then we all come here to work ...

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:23 PM

*Oh majikinetor you are so sadly mistaken* : Should I comment this epic observation ?

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:22 PM

Maybe he doesn't want to completely disassociate himself from himself Melissa ?

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:09 PM

Nice. So all the nice things are personality and all the crappy things including the judgment to write things whether they are fact or fiction aren't a consequence of personality. BTW... people don't do research and share it with the community unless they are looking for self-confirmation in their own judgement or need persuasion for or against. There is motive either way even if it is just out of curiosity or FYI, that is a personality trait as well. Don't you forget that. LOL. That's my new motto now: "Don't you forget that."

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:05 PM

Patrik did post an edit in the bottom of the question. From my perspective, the original poster tried to make it largely fact-based rather than an ad-hominem attack. However, due to the nature of the question (about a prominent paleo blogger and valued paleohacks member) it was controversial. You can't please everybody--like RJ100 up above objects by saying the post was not direct enough. Some people think the post is petty, some think it is valuable. There are three sides to every story. Anyone who claims to have a monopoly on correct opinions doesn't know how to play monopoly.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:54 PM

@luckyb, you're right, not enough Quilt, I've already said on record here that I can't keep up. Some of us need a life, you know!

D7b01bbfd0b91a12c4aea43fb20adf15
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:42 PM

It will be much more productive to intelligently question and criticize specific Quilt ideas or blog posts in separate threads, instead of attacking all his contributions based on his general persona. This whole thread feels like too much drama towards a very active member of the community. In no way do I defend his ideas or persona, but this whole thread does not seem appropriate to me. Every major Paleo blogger has flaws and faulty ideas or statements. However, they should be treated with some level of respect due to their contributions.

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:32 PM

Dittos, I just try to let the annoying things roll off. I have wine in my backpack to go with the fire and actually remembered the corkscrew. * gathers wood *

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:31 PM

High school? Perhaps you are giving some commenters more credit. It is more like middle school. What's next, spitballs? Maybe they could stick his caveman dreadlocks in the inkwell. That sure would settle things.

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:27 PM

Dittos. Gathering the firewood now and I have wine in my backpack.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:25 PM

@lunabelle, so Dr. K is crass? Your creepy comments are dripping with hatred and in need of some editing.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:25 PM

I don't see why Patrik didn't delete the question. We're "reviewing a human being", how can that do any good? Then again, I often didn't understand Patrik's decisions in the past.

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:15 PM

Wjones3044: What do you mean by 'No. This is not about style.'? I'm not sure what you're referring to.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:14 PM

LOL Aravind! I'll try to be less agreeable in the future ;-)

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:13 PM

Paleo2: The Einstein mistake is trivial. Dr K explains his carnosine position on his supplements blog post. And his K2 recommendations are based on what he's seen work with patients, which is experience that I don't think Guyenet gets (I really like SG btw, but he has access to different knowledge and ideas than Dr K). So, fo these cases at least, I want to say that the situation is more complicated. You might be right, but it would take a rather interesting discussion or investigation to establish that. Good news: Kruse has already made the first move, and we are all free to make the next :)

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:13 PM

then write it. we'll see how the tribe votes :-)

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:11 PM

Shari - you do not appreciate the power of the iPad. You must be a Windows user. I think must unfriend you now. So sad...

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:11 PM

Paleo2: The Einstein mistake is trivial. Dr K explains his carnosine position on his supplements blog post. And his K2 recommendations are based on what he's seen works with patients, which is experience that I don't think Guyenet gets (I really like SG btw, but he access to different knowledge and ideas than Dr K). So, in these cases at least, I want to say that the situation is more complicated. You might be right, but it would take a rather interesting discussion or investigation to establish that. Good news: Kruse has already made the first move, and we are all free to mak the next :)

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:10 PM

That doesn't add up, my dear majkinetor. The fact that a guru/blogger type person posts on paleohacks does not make that person less prone to criticism than Dr. Oz or Dr. Peat. What it does do is make the topic much more explosive. See this thread for a real-time example!

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:07 PM

Paleo2.0, the reset plan actually does work for many who try it, even for folks who have been on paleo/primal for awhile without stellar results. If people new to this read this question first, they might come away with the idea that the plan is dreadful and dangerous. What's dangerous, following Sisson's or Wolf's diet plans with a few tweaks?

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:06 PM

Personality? This has nothing to do with his personality. In fact many who have serious criticism have also said some very positive things about his personality. And this entire post comes to us because someone took the time to look into things for herself and share what she found with all of us. Don't you forget that.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:06 PM

@chickensaurus it was by far the most offensive thing i've read in this post, by a person talking about people being offensive to the quilt. since he's into projection and inanimate objects, he may want to rename himself pot or kettle.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:01 PM

The ipad made me do it! Priceless.

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:01 PM

Above, Cody said: "Katherine, perhaps you could use a little nipple massage yourself? I would offer to help you out, but I am in a monogamous relationship. Sorry." So others are childish, eh? The mirror never lies.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:00 PM

Oh majikinetor you are so sadly mistaken.

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:58 PM

If he's offering medical advice, then he has come here to work in my opinion.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:56 PM

+1 RJ for calling it. It's just a slam, plain and simple. One could write the same "question" about Harris or some others and have just as many examples.

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:52 PM

Leptin is a real-time fat census signal that the hypothalamus is always receiving. When that signal gets interrupted, either by a disruption in receptor ability or by a reduction in body fat below a particular threshold, the hypothalamus nukes metabolic rate, sex steroid production etc. etc. Leptin isn't secreted in a pulsatile manner like LH or something because it's coming from *billions* of cells at a time. There's just a flood of it, and when the waters recede (or the hypothalamus thinks they have) it starts to plan for the lean times.

89e238284ccb95b439edcff9e123671e
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:52 PM

@majkinetor: To make sure you understand me correct: with simple I mean simple principles to use, not that the science, biochemics, physiology, ... is easy or simple. I like simple like Mark Sisson, Robb Wolf, Kurt Harris, ... Again, I could be wrong, but it seems like the above have good results.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:47 PM

Kurt Harris makes grammatical mistakes, particularly when he writes a very hurried post. But regardless of whether you agree with KGH or not, would many people accuse him of being incoherent? I think not. This is not about grammar.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:39 PM

More anonymous down-votes for having an opinion that doesn't go along with the crowd. Should I go through and down-vote everyone I don't agree with? Grow up people.

368568eb91f1b58d2f52c9c566d331b5
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:35 PM

I find this type of hack disingenuous as it is clearly anti-Quilt and yet pretends to be neutral. Don't hide behind the faux "oh hey guys I'm not sure if he's unreliable.." while directly quoting and highlighting in bold all the times Quilt is clearly unreliable. Just call the guy out if you think he's full of crap. Personally, I think he's full of crap.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:31 PM

@maj - you are entitled to your opinion...as am I. You also left out the part that he is an MD (not just a blogger) in your assessment.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:28 PM

@Cody: You may have missed many past conversations here where people have questioned Quilt on some of his statements and attempted to debate some of his rather questionable conclusions. These attempts have never got anywhere, resulting in either evasion, hostility or being ignored. For this reason many here have given up this pursuit and resigned ourselves to using humor in response to extravagant claims.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:26 PM

Mhm... are you sure ? First time I hear any receptor is always saturated, that doesnt' make any sense.

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:24 PM

They are definitely not desensitized due to elevated leptin levels. In a healthy human, the leptin receptors should *always* be saturated with leptin. When they're not, the hypothalamus starts to compensate.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:15 PM

If he really wanted to disassociate himself from his work work, then he is free to create a completely anonymous identity here. I posted for a long time on LC and paleo forums as pseudonym because of my past work.

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:13 PM

@majkinetor: You're oversimplifying. Do you honestly think people here are stupid and lazy? Most of us have worked quite hard to understand what it is that we're doing.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:09 PM

*but he posts a lot of comments and stuff that are less than rigorous** - Thats because he doesn't come here to work Melissa. Funny how that escapes you.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:08 PM

Yes, it says 4 numbers.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:06 PM

Yes, Dr. Oz and Ornish contribute to this forum all the time. I see your point :S

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:06 PM

I wish I could up-vote this over and over! I love the way you said this akd!

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:00 PM

**"Quilt has become a significant member of the Paleo community, and with that comes great responsibility on his part, dare I say some level of accountability"** : Wow, what a bunch of nonsense.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:59 PM

Evelyn - if we keep agreeing with each other, people are going to question the sincerity of my responses. Stop posting things I agree with!!!

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:55 PM

LOL. Megamind I say.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:52 PM

To be fair, if this post was not allowed, we also wouldn't be able to post things like "Did you see what Dr. Oz just said" or "Do you trust Ray Peat's advice?". This one is touchier, of course, but the analogy does hold.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:49 PM

That would be some Kaiser Soze shit there!

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:47 PM

I don't know what kind of publications you're buying. There have been short paragraphs written by Quilt that contain more errors than I'm willing to bet are contained in the first drafts of many books. *Or in Leptinmanese*: i dont know what kind of publication your buying. Their has been short paragraphs written by quilt that contain more error then im willing to bet are contained in the first draft of many books.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:38 PM

Discussing the information would be wonderful. I don't spend much time here and while I'd seen a few of Quilt's statements, I'd never spent much time on it. After coming across this, I started to read more. There may be good information that he's shared. It may help some people. It does seem reasonable though that any critically thoughtful human would have a great deal of concern about some of his statements.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:35 PM

Cody, did you just add a tag "haters-gonna-hate" and take out mari's "sorry-it's-so-long? I don't think that's in line with the original poster's points. You can change it back if you'd like. If not, I will.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:31 PM

cody, i feel you will be getting a dismissal soon. good luck, sir.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:23 PM

Mhm.... are we sure **meri** isn't working for **Quilt**. Negative publicity is the best self-promotion :D

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:22 PM

Dairy does cause an insulin reaction in many people. I've experienced it myself. I would call that evidence. And Katherine, perhaps you could use a little nipple massage yourself? I would offer to help you out, but I am in a monogamous relationship. Sorry.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:20 PM

Get a room. Jeez (yes I'm jealous Kamal)

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:20 PM

-1 for the best PH post. This is probably the worst PH post I have read, and tbh its shame if its not deleted.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:19 PM

-1: Like I alrady said before, better marketing might be great for you in "500 startups" world. Other people have different priorities and differently express emotions.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:19 PM

Like I alrady said before, better marketing might be great for you in "500 startups" world. Other people have different priorities and differently express emotions.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:17 PM

Free is only helpful if the information is factually correct. It appears that in the case under discussion, much of the information is erroneous. If you have evidence Quilt's information is correct, especially in regards to his statements that "dairy = insulin and insulin leads to death" and that nipple massage can reduce breast cancer by 50-80%, it would be helpful information to have. He's repeatedly been asked for supporting evidence and has repeatedly declined to give any. That, in combination with the other outlined behaviors, makes everything else he says suspect.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:16 PM

you should probably respond to those particular posters.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:16 PM

actually, I notice the harshest people here don't have blogs. I have a blog, I wish Quilt would get rid of some bad ideas, but overall I like that he stirs up debate, as I think it's interesting and healthy. And bloggers usually aren't the loudest criticizers because we have to see people IRL and we have our real names attached to things.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:15 PM

*If your aim is to increase the perception of leptin by the arcuate nucleus of the hypothalamus, why would you recommend carbohydrate restriction when it results in a drastic reduction in circulating leptin?* : Because you want to sensitize receptors again as they are desensitized becaue of chronically high levels of leptin. This is well known for basically every hormone in existance. See http://gettingstronger.org/2010/10/change-your-setpoint/

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:15 PM

*If your aim is to increase the perception of leptin by the arcuate nucleus of the hypothalamus, why would you recommend carbohydrate restriction when it results in a drastic reduction in circulating leptin?*: Because you want to sensitize receptors again as they are desensitized becaue of chronically high levels of leptin. This is well known for basically every hormone in existance. See http://gettingstronger.org/2010/10/change-your-setpoint/

C471216c9fb4fcf886b7ac84a4046b49
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:15 PM

bahahhahah good response, but i wish you woulda dug more dirt on the science being incredibly wrong...and the fact LR isnt real...

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:14 PM

Don't worry Kamal any stress this is causing you is probably having a hormetic effect on your reading comprehension. :P

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:13 PM

Mari makes great points. However, several of you have come across as very juvenile and condescending. Really makes it hard to consider any of those views. And I edited my post to clarify about the blogging thing...

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:09 PM

Thats the problem D, people don't like it difficult. They like it in a way "loose 25 kg in 12 days" or "learn c++ in 24 hours".

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:06 PM

@Kamal: I am relaxed as ever. Don't let a little sarcasm make you think otherwise. And don't call me un-dude. I didn't stop smoking yet. :P

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:01 PM

hey maj. i don't have a blog. water getting heavy yet?

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:00 PM

Okay, everyone relax. You're being very un-dude. Maybe you can agree to disagree?

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:59 PM

did you even read the original question? you make a lot of assumptions in this post. 1)there are several posters here who do have their own blogs with substantial traffic 2)he's not the only blogger putting out useful free information- and there are many who do it much more coherently and better- sisson, jaminet, wolf immediately spring to mind. why don't you first concentrate on chewing over the myriad of examples that mari brung up in the original question before commenting?

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:55 PM

Kinda makes you wonder where he went to medical school. It's not that easy to get in if you can't string together a sentence... Once I read more than about two misspelled words in a post, the authority of it goes down by a factor of two with every additional mistake. I guess I'm a grammar snob.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:53 PM

Your grammar sux bustard. Please stop posting here until you learn how to write. We don't want to discredit this fine community.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:53 PM

more like sane people cutting off the fringes or the properly attached taking care of loose screws.

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:52 PM

haha, the first things cults do, cut off loose ends.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:50 PM

Your grammar sux bustard. Please stop posting here until you learn how to do write. We don't want to discredit this fine community.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:49 PM

Your grammar sux. Please stop writing until you learn how to do so. We don't want to discredit this fine community.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:49 PM

Your grammar sux. Please stop writing until you learn to write. We don't want to discredit this fine community.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:48 PM

I wont read your comment. Your grammar sux. Learn to write then come back in order not to discredit this fine community.

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:48 PM

Based upon everything I have seen, Quilt is pretty much wrong about everything. Even very basic facts. You would really have to pick through and find something he is right about. Just in responses to me he said that Einstein was a train ticket clerk instead of a patent clerk, that carnosine (found mainly in muscle meat) is what is makes the paleo diet special, that because Stephan Guyenet has no experience “treating disease” his estimate of how much K2 that could be derived from food was ridiculous. Someone needs to start a thread that lists where Quilt has actually been right about something.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:44 PM

"Just look it up is acceptable" answer akd. Nobody has responsibility to teach you for free. Most of the people on forums demand to get information like other people are somehow responsible to do that or get money for that.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:43 PM

wow. she's 16. she has a lot of time to do that.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:42 PM

Just look it up is acceptable answer akd. Nobody has responsibility to teach you for free.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:41 PM

You want to be serious ? Grow up then.... the world is not B&W.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:38 PM

the problem is that this paleo thing or whatever you call it is so young that we must police ourselves of those that would discredit the movement. being a purveyor of unchecked info with a hard-on for self-promotion is a dangerous combinations, no? many people come to paleo as a last resort after they feel- many times rightly so- that mainstream medicine and nutrition has failed them. the last person i want them to run into is this guy. mark sisson, robb wolf, kgh, chris kresser? i'm all ok for a person just getting into this to read any of those people. just not this guy. please not this guy.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:38 PM

Grow up kid. The world is not b&w.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:36 PM

Oh man, I am relieved to learn that even you are perplexed by that equation. I thought it was just me! That I was too dumb to understand it fully. I feel much better about my brain now. Thank you.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:35 PM

@Kamal: I guess you rewound the beginning of the movie :)

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:33 PM

+1 for the WTF Equations. Several of us have had a laugh or two about that Evelyn

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:32 PM

+! for the WTF Equations. Several of us have had a laugh or two about that Evelyn

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:26 PM

+1 "Some people seriously have to work on their understanding of life, universe and everything else." I think we were separated at birth :)

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:26 PM

Not to nitpick...but are you using "Megamind" in the right context? In the animated movie, Megamind is actually quite noble. So Quilt may very well WANT to play Megamind :)

3193ead7a301b741aafa193c4476edea
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:16 PM

Great answer, definitely agreed.

3193ead7a301b741aafa193c4476edea
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:07 PM

Lovin' the quote!

3193ead7a301b741aafa193c4476edea
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:06 PM

@Evelyn: Actually, as an Engineering student I have had tons of pressure to develop and maintain communication skills in my papers in order to later prevent misunderstandings in the field. I can't see the medical field being any different in this regard.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:03 PM

sounds like you'll be at AHS12, Pieter.

89e238284ccb95b439edcff9e123671e
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:18 PM

Although the question and most of the answers/comments are very respectable and polite, I hope this internet conversation and critique doesn't suffer from the lack of personal contact and non-verbal communication! This would be a much more interesting and fun thread if it was happening with all of us around a big fire, eating some meat on a stick, on a cool starlit night in august...

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:12 PM

Many people are impelled to challenge conventional wisdom, but forget that paleos were merely humans trying to survive. I blundered in with a belief in the value of hunt-and-gather and meat eating as the most defensible core paleo values. I'm still bewildered by the amount of esoterica posted up here. Leptin theories among many others

D7b01bbfd0b91a12c4aea43fb20adf15
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:01 PM

Great points, but not sure about the marketing part. For some reason I associate better marketing with Dr. Mercola and I do not want Dr K to go that route. I really appreciate that he is not selling/pushing/marketing anything besides his own ego perhaps.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f
0 · November 02, 2011 at 11:46 AM

Does IP say anything, really?

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 11:19 AM

i think you put your finger on what made me skeptical, pieter. all of a sudden, me taking a very conservative, common sense approach to health wasn't enough. i needed resveratrol? pshaw. i like my version better.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 02, 2011 at 11:18 AM

Yes, the grammar and punctuation errors go much further than simply failure-to-edit thought streams. As a graduate of an engineering school, and having been in grad school with many for whom English was a second language, I'm used to poor communication skills. But Quilt's are worse than most of those for whom there is at least an excuse -- such skills tend not to be stressed in the harder science/engineering fields, and English is a tough language to learn as a second. If it's not his strong suit, he should invest in a good inline browser spell/grammar checker and use it!

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a
0 · November 02, 2011 at 9:38 AM

*was outrageous and *stumbled sorry!!

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a
0 · November 02, 2011 at 9:38 AM

I personally thought that claim as outrageous! A 50% (or 80% depending on what contradictory post you have stubled across) reduction of breast cancer because you have rubbed your nipples? Come on. Things are not that straight forward.

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a
0 · November 02, 2011 at 9:08 AM

Yep, totally agree with this.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:51 AM

Ur better than any Kellogg's product... If you didn't have Audrey's avatar, I'd eat you *haaa!*

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:49 AM

mari, why invoke Denise Minger's good name? She's kind.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:24 AM

My husband thinks we do too much meat but this is the beauty why it works very effectively. 50 g is like 7 eggs, 2 big ch breasts, or a chunk of lamb, beef, or pork. I do organic rice, fruit, potatoes, or chocolate for the carbs which help augment the insulin without causing me to chase crwvings and high insulin all day... good luck and I hope to hear more about ur story later!

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:20 AM

I try to read a lot of the smartypants here and Kruse writes a ton so I don't catch everything unless someone reposts. The leptin reset makes sense from reading Eades, Bryon and others, not that I get it all. The Rx is ridiculously brilliant and insane. And it works. I'm doing it bc I become chunkylicious recently from stress, adrenals (being~ single mom, moving, etc) and the Rx is good for adrenals. As suggested I do 25g carbs or more in the AM. Lost 1kg already in 1 wk but I also like to work out. Depending on how poopy the adrenals are, no exercise is probably best.

C00e493393828df34be65ddc25456c7c
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:16 AM

So with adrenal fatigue you can have more carbs? How much slightly more carbs do you have and did you just start doing it? Congrats on the 1 kilo.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:12 AM

Like a lot of smartypants here I've been trwcking his comments but like a ton of good ones I don't hva time for all and miss a bunch until people repost them. yes I love the reset and I'm doing it and it's working great because I put on a chunkylicious amount of weight w/adrenal fatigue this past year (~being like a single mom then moving far away). I never tried consuming so much meat in the AM. It's ridiculously brilliant and insane. And totally works. With the aenals as suggested I do 25 or slightly more carbs like organic rice or fruit or potatoes or a salad and chocolate. 1 kg down!

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:10 AM

Nutri-smart? Am I a cereal bar made by Kellogg's?? Okay, I'll go to bed now. But not before saying that I can't believe you have kids old enough to go to the pet store alone. You can't be a day over 30!

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:05 AM

KAMAL, I had to watch saved by the bell next to my kids... omg u r a BABBY but so nutri-smart and clever! u must take a cool pill every morning... dude u need ur beautificationSLEEP!! w a l k. a w a y. f r o m t h e i P a d . . . i know u can do it! haa. yeah i'm havin coffee waiting for mynkids to come back from the petstore.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:42 AM

Plus 13 Jeff. The SAD and other modern toxins put me in a litter box... AWESOME anaology Shari but I would strongly disagree. Quilt's thoughts and art in translating the biochem is what helps me (and many others sick in the cr*pload) to stay out.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:36 AM

I dont think the post is long enough...

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:36 AM

You can never talk too much 80s! I'd say this thread is kind of like a mix between the Nickelodeon shows "Hey Dude" and "Fifteen", with a little bit of Saved By the Bell thrown in. Speaking of, I realized that you're probably in China and not up really late. Since I am, I'm going to be tired when I wake up in the morning and and the alarm gives out a warning; I don't think I'll ever make it on time. By the time I grab my books and I give myself a look I'm at the corner just in time to see the bus fly by!

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:36 AM

Clever 16! haa aahh

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:34 AM

Yeah... DeVany is impressive. He is also a freq misunderstood intellect who is way ahead of their times. Even the quote unquote gurus don't go out of there way, risking critiques like the above to help other fellow compatriots... SAD. Shutting off blog comments is not the answer. Quilt doesn't do that which is more impressive to me which expresses a level of kindness and generosity unheard of compared with other MD blogger/'gurus'.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:28 AM

Do cowboys ride hogs? He looks to me like he's into Arlen Ness or Harleys...

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:27 AM

Thanks for the clarification...

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:26 AM

FUNNY! After I discovered ur upvoting process here been upvoting u too when ur released from Lr captivity (geez is this like high school OR WHAT?????! or that MTV realityshowow with behind the scene tears and stabbbing?? ok need to shut up of I'll be dating myself to the 80s HHAA)

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:22 AM

awww yeeeah. go mari!!

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:19 AM

A couple paleohackers have volunteered to edit his blog. Might not be a terrible idea. With regards to hoss:age ratio, I'm not sure anyone could beat Art De Vany.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:18 AM

Plus 10+ tempomat

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:14 AM

I'd trust a PaleoHacker like Travis, Meredith, Rogue, Nutritionator, Aravind, Kamal, HappyNow, DRAGONFLY, EVa, Matthew and H*LL even cliff before 99% of physicians... no joke.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:12 AM

Exactly my thoughts. I've seen responses at at PH that are extensively worded trying tto clarify people with distraught health thoughts and extremely complicated questions. he is ONE of the only MDs that I've come across who has said that doesn't matter how many degrees are after your name. SO TRUE.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:12 AM

I instinctively vote up anything you say, Dr. BG. Very measured response. However, the Jaminet thread that mari posted is from a few months ago, quite a while before the Jimmy Moore starch post. And yes, Quilt may very well be a cowboy. Doesn't he live in the south? Or do cowboys live in the southwest? I need to relearn cowboy geography.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:09 AM

He should sell a couple bottles of those cellared wines and get an editor!! No need for fancy grooming because he loks hotter than 99% of docs his age (like Dr.Davis another surgeon preDM/diabetic)

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:07 AM

And to echo Patrick...please don't be mean! Be feisty, loquacious, stubborn, analytical, or poetic. But there's potentially real things to discuss here, without angry battles breaking out.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:00 AM

I changed the title to try to make it more neutral (took out "credibility"). Also, for those who aren't longtime Paleohacks vets, I referred to Quilty by his given name as well. Hopefully it doesn't sound like it's asking about his character. Feel free to change it back, Mari or anyone else.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:54 AM

I agree with all these...ESPECIALLY the better writing part. It's not a trivial thing.

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:24 AM

Nil, and you get what you pay for.

1f96ce108240f19345c05704c7709dad
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:13 AM

"If you want free advice, you get exactly what you pay for." What do you charge for YOUR advice and comments, Travis Culp?

531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:11 AM

No. This is not about style.

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:06 AM

Wow, you're right. I just searched for MSG on his site and he's saying the same stuff: http://jackkruse.com/msg-your-gut-and-your-brain-post-trauma/ He should turn that post into his leptin RX and turn that other stuff into a high-protein, low fat bodyweight reduction plan that is totally separate.

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:06 AM

Shari: if you read his blog, one of the things he repeats the most is that testing is required, and that he figured this stuff out via endless testing on patients and himself. He is a doctor and a surgeon, but testing and (self)experimentation are a major feature of his approach. We all make contributions in our little way. And I'm suggesting that we should make certain exceptions for his unique way of contributing. (Of course, though, its completely reasonable to disagree with me here.)

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:48 AM

and BTW, Dr. K absolutely hates all MSG, not sure if it is for all the same reasons as yu.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:48 AM

sorry Travis, I can't keep up!!! I am not sure why/what you are asking me, but if people are leptin resistant, they would have higher circulating leptin but the cells still don't heed the call.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:42 AM

fine, I changed to NSFL

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:41 AM

+1 Jeff, there are many people who are not in a litter box

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:38 AM

Seriously, Mari, NSFW? Not safe ever.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:35 AM

Very balanced post. Nicely done.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:23 AM

Eric I have nothing against self-experimentation. I'm all for it in fact. But he doesn't present himself as such. In fact he's big on throwing letters in front of an after his name and by doing such he become held to a higher standard. He's not some self-experimenting blogger out in a corn field somewhere. He presents himself as a doctor, a surgeon no less, yet doesn't want to be held to the standard we would hold any other scientific or medical professional? You can't have it both ways. I had so hoped he was going to pull this off but he's left many of us broken hearted.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:22 AM

Leave it to Eric to "bring it". You are one smart dude. I didn't really have time to read this response, but I read it anyway. Balanced and intelligent commentary on Dr K in response to Mari's well composed question here.

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:14 AM

After I got slapped one time on an issue of credentialism, quilt said that his three degrees were worthless. Someone paid for all that education. Too bad it was wasted.

3b803506ca7d7b5796bc16ee5b9f11d3
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:10 AM

@Melissa, interested in your MSG comment, are we mexicans supposed to use MSG a lot? like, more than americans? Now I'm not really a "typical" mexican, but I wasn't aware we had lots of MSG. Also I don't know what the Leptin resistance there, but Mexico has indeed--in the last decade or so--become the most obese country around. When I was there growing up most everyone young was thin and people would say "wait until you marry", by 30yo everyone's belly popped out.

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:46 AM

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2009/12/14/2003460910

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:44 AM

Arlokk: I presume you are familiar with haters-gonna-hate panda? http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YoRvV08OZMo/TZKolUO9C4I/AAAAAAAAATk/evomi78nEXQ/s1600/HatersGonnaHatePanda.jpg

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:43 AM

The highest intake of MSG in Asia is in Taiwan and they have a fairly significant obesity problem http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-789X.2005.00175.x/abstract?systemMessage=Wiley+Online+Library+will+be+disrupted+5+Nov+from+10-12+GMT+for+monthly+maintenance

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:43 AM

The highest intake of MSG is in Taiwan and they have a fairly significant obesity problem http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-789X.2005.00175.x/abstract?systemMessage=Wiley+Online+Library+will+be+disrupted+5+Nov+from+10-12+GMT+for+monthly+maintenance

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:42 AM

I'm getting close with all of these ....plus 1's............

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:39 AM

Excellent and detailed question. +1

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:39 AM

Sorry mari...there was this little type in there that was KILLING me. I don't usually edit :)

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:37 AM

lol@quite obviously. sounds like quilty science...

Cc7381bd787721575ea9198048132adb
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:35 AM

Vote limit reached dammit! I'll get you tomorrow Tom. On that note, I wonder how many others have hit the limit because of this question...

62f89aa727cf3ce77c36651347cabc14
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:32 AM

+1. Quilt is quite obviously a net positive. Haters will hate.

Cc7381bd787721575ea9198048132adb
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:28 AM

Are there actually other questions being asked and answered tonight?

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:28 AM

There IS A REASON there are no "relationship maps and such" on his site! Hell I'd pay big bucks to anyone who would even attempt to draw something like that.

9759643ce5d97ab8fa649ae954656c4c
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:26 AM

Breastfeeding (and nipple stimulation) to reduce cancer risk is far from a new Quilt idea. He just managed to throw it into a conversation a few times in the most crass way possible.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:26 AM

Just a mod note, I added NSFW on the Halloween pic 0_o. Also I hope people can stay on topic by addressing his IDEAS and not his personal demeanor.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:23 AM

Taubes and Kruse in the same sentence? Put a knife through my heart why dontcha? I'd upvote the rest of what you said though.

9759643ce5d97ab8fa649ae954656c4c
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:23 AM

As far as nipple "message" goes, I breastfed for six years straight and my nipples get plenty of other action, so I think I'm in the clear.

072fd69647b0e765bb4b11532569f16d
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:22 AM

+10 (if possible) for grammar and punctuation. This forum could use more attention to such detail.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:20 AM

Quilt: "....one nipple massage will reduce your risk of breast CA by 50% because of the sensitivity to oxytocin....."

9759643ce5d97ab8fa649ae954656c4c
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:20 AM

My point is that I worry for people who get themselves roped into following someone like Quilt to the degree that it makes them unable to think critically. When I see people making excuses for someone who can't allow themself to be questioned and can't bother with answering to criticism? I see red flags.

6e62a2c558d01dc30c62d94058d958af
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:20 AM

This is bad behavior Jay....youurr'ee outta here!

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:20 AM

u haven't been reading quilty enough then

Cc7381bd787721575ea9198048132adb
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:19 AM

"I wouldn't let him treat my cat." lol.

6e62a2c558d01dc30c62d94058d958af
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:19 AM

Woah...meredith, yoouurr'ee outta heree!

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:17 AM

Meredith - my dumbness is proportional to my love for you. Infinite!

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:14 AM

luckybastard, I don't know. I hadn't ever read about the nipple massage/cancer connection, but did read about the connection to prolactin.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:12 AM

@loon how do u know it will? do prostitutes/exotic dancers in clubs where touching is allowed have a lower rate of breast cancer?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:08 AM

FYI everyone the moderators discussed this question before it was posted. Mari was nice enough to ask because it was controversial.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:08 AM

Charlie again??

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:07 AM

Shari: I don't think of myself as having my eggs in any basket. I like his ambitious project in the sense that I find it really interesting and engaging. I also have a favorable bias toward anything heavy on self experimentation. Dr K is one of the most active and interesting self experimenters around. He could be wrong about 50% of it and we would all still stand to gain from it, so long as he kept reporting his results faithfully.

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:04 AM

Mari: His posts can be burdensome to read. Experience with turgid academic writing helps. I find that if I can look past his problems with the mechanics of English then the ideas that he is trying to express make it worth it. Of course, though, there's nothing wrong with finding it unacceptably unpleasant. This is why I think a coauthor could turn him into a complete public intellectual. However, he really has little incentive to do this, unless this is a goal of his, and I don't think it is.

76f3ead3aa977d876bcf3331d35a36e9
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:03 AM

My daily PaleoHacks search of the word "nipple" brought me here.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:03 AM

The title was drab enough to allow the post to slide.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:02 AM

"told me to research the internet on my condition." lololol that's him.

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:01 AM

Akd: I agree. I also think that a majority of his claims are substantiated on his site, where he responds actively to readers' questions. And, on this site, his responsibility isn't as great, because his comments are accompanied by both criticisms and others' comments.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:59 AM

@luna, your point? How do you know that nipple massage won't cure what ails you?

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:59 AM

@Kamal, I think it does point to people's preferences. Can you just imagine DrK being at a committee meeting called for the express purpose of mapping citations? Preposterous! He'd be on his tablet the whole time, checking out MDA and Paleohacks if it were possible to stay in the room at all.

7d0c3ea9bf8be00b93e6433d8f125ac3
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:57 AM

not to mention that if you do "look it up" or read his citations, you can see he's pulling a whole lot of stuff out of thin air. He seems to be counting on the fact that all the biochemistry terms sound really serious and impressive to the average reader to try and slip half-truths and outright lies past them.

9759643ce5d97ab8fa649ae954656c4c
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:57 AM

I've got this amazing oil made from real snakes right here! Rub it on your nipples once and it will cure all that ails you! Don't listen to all those sciency naysayers! They just aren't up to speed with my mad genius yet!

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:56 AM

Wow! Two downvotes in four minutes. I must have fans who seek out my work!!!!!!

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:55 AM

Interesting note on citations: I saw a cool project a while ago where someone was mapping the course of citations in a single medical topic. From inception of the idea to acceptance of the idea. There is, like you say, a substantial gap in time between the two. However, I'm not sure if that fully applies to Quilt's ideas, or at least some of the points made by Mari above.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:55 AM

I missed the sale on Kool-aid I see? Eric you're a good guy but your eggs are in the wrong leptin-resistant basket on this one.

7d0c3ea9bf8be00b93e6433d8f125ac3
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:54 AM

@Ben I agree. When he first started posting I felt like I was in the emperor has no clothes or something. I'm only up to second-year university biochemistry but it's clear that so much of what he says is not factually correct or supported by evidence (even his own citations), it's weird to see him elevated to guru status for basically making things up and being really confident about it.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:53 AM

Me too kamal.. :/

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:53 AM

I don't think he will either, but some still try.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:52 AM

I don't think Dr. K will ever be run out of town. He's got moxie.

7d0c3ea9bf8be00b93e6433d8f125ac3
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:52 AM

I agree Mallory. Particularly a neurosurgeon. Since when does performing back surgery also make you an endocrinologist and gynecologist?

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:50 AM

I haven't read those studies so I'm throwing this out there haphazardly, but wouldn't a presumably higher overall iodine intake by Japanese affect their thyroids quite drastically?

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:49 AM

http://www.ratemds.com/doctor-ratings/8445/Dr-John-Kruse-Hermitage-TN.html

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:48 AM

Loon: Wouldn't they always have reduced circulating leptin as a result?

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:47 AM

Actually, I think that studied controlled for energy in and out.

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:47 AM

Yeah, it's difficult to parse out whether or not they're actually eating more. I think it's not out of the realm of possibility that the fattest Americans actually eat quite a lot more MSG than is consumed in Asian countries.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:46 AM

Good thing Docs have reviews! Here's one. Opinionated is the good one. the bad is ....we... go ahead and read. I can't say for sure. I wasn't there myself. http://www.vitals.com/doctors/Dr_John_J_Kruse?#tab:doctor%2Fprofile%2F1215920855%2Freviews%2F1215920855%3F

98148e265e1a9b27ce1c206190c1b8a4
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:46 AM

Absolutely, akd. That's the real crux of the matter.

Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:43 AM

i wonder if there are any reviews from his patients online?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:41 AM

not Quilty y'all. Very different IP.

Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:41 AM

did you just correct my punctuation?

Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:40 AM

when people make controversial claims, there is a burden of proof for that person, particularly when those claims could harm someones health. this seems very straightforward.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:40 AM

I picked the wrong time to run out of upvotes.

2870a69b9c0c0a19a919e54cb3a62137
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:38 AM

That's harsh of you with no way to evaluate his skill and practices as a surgeon. Don't think for one second other surgeons have no faults.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:35 AM

Her taurus is strongly moderated by her ENFPishness. I'd say ENFPness but ya can't really say that. At least not out loud.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:34 AM

+1 for not taking sides.

D7b01bbfd0b91a12c4aea43fb20adf15
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:32 AM

very well said...

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:31 AM

^^He's definitely not quilt. I can understand this. Also................. no ellipses

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:30 AM

Well, overall Asian people in Asian countries are thinner than we are and have impressive life expectancies. The 2nd study meshes well with Stephen's palatability theory. MSG is great at making things taste good.

Da3d4a6835c0f5256b2ef829b3ba3393
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:28 AM

"At the end of the day, he is the best and most prolific Paleo medical resource..." Hmmmmmm..... you are certainly entitled to your opinion, Quil.... oops, I mean tempomat.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:28 AM

great question.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:28 AM

I'd rather have a neurosurgeon who doesn't make shit up and who can string a logical, coherent sentence together.

98148e265e1a9b27ce1c206190c1b8a4
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:27 AM

Actually, I'm generally a very respectful and mellow person.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:25 AM

+1 eric............

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:22 AM

so you'd rather have a brain surgeon who frets about and whines, "Oh, I'm not really too sure about this.."?

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:21 AM

Boulderdash!!!!

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:20 AM

My point was that if I happened to need brain surgery, no way in hell am I going to quilt. You couldn't pay me enough.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:19 AM

@ben me too. that kind of surety when it comes to something as complex as science and health sends off alarm bells in my head...

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:19 AM

@travis, there is not specific recommendation for adding carbs back. It depends on the results of specific tests and if people don't get tested, they should stay on the low side of carbs depending on their individual situation. DrK continues to test himself and adjust carbs accordingly.

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:18 AM

and i apologize if i am mad but anyone givind medical advice and dietary advice over the net in something as severe as amenorrhea and anorexia....should lose their medical license

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:18 AM

I been butting heads with Q since the get to on these boards. Good to see others questioning so much of his erroneous commentary

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:17 AM

My node is in Sag as well as my MOON. So there.

2870a69b9c0c0a19a919e54cb3a62137
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:16 AM

I wouldn't feel comfortable with anybody performing brain surgery on me. Just sayin.

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:16 AM

ehhhh i dunno lol, a lot of pharma drugs help but i never read about them b/c i wont ever be prescribed one...curcumin comes o mind, and yea green tea

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:11 AM

add one thing...the FACT that leptin goes down in fat people when they lose weight 100% disproves there is or was LR

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:11 AM

I'd be interested in this too. Green tea?

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:10 AM

Hey Mallory, what are your ideas on how to fix the dopamine issue?

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:06 AM

Happy birthday Mallory!

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:02 AM

thank you, awesome agreement here...

Da3d4a6835c0f5256b2ef829b3ba3393
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:01 AM

K2 is not "Quilt's" idea.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:01 AM

mallory, i've been reading prozac not potatoes and alot of coverage of seretonin and beta-endorphins as it relates to sugar cravings happen there.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:01 AM

To clarify, by your I'm referring to Quilt's and just a general, not you.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:00 AM

Eric, you do have a good point in that scholarly backup is not necessarily needed. See Dr. Harris' blog for a great example of this. However, your writing needs to be coherent. His is literally painful to read. This is a subject I love and am very interested in but I honestly can't bring myself to read his posts. Its that bad. I also question some of his content, especially given some of the specific examples I posted above.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:00 AM

I got an anonymous down-vote too. Just for expressing an opinion that is different than most others.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:59 AM

She is 16 dude. Sixteen!

Cc7381bd787721575ea9198048132adb
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:57 AM

I can agree with that Eric. Overall, I think he is helping people but I think he could help a lot more if he addressed the issues that people clearly have with some of his ideas and how he conveys them. Either way, you have my +1 for making some great points.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:55 AM

Hello mari, I'm talking B 12 shots, a few sweet potatoes, a few wind sprints. and maybe a few of those nipple manipulations. May pass on the brain surgery. :)

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:54 AM

Jeff: after a year on this site these are the first down votes that I have ever received.

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:54 AM

well he can start by defending the fact saying obese are LR...theyre not.

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:54 AM

Akd: Dr K is a subpar writer who needs an editor and maybe a co-author (I've offered my services). On his blog he provides links. That said, given his intellectual style, I think that it would slow him down significantly if he had to provide scholarly backup to everything that he says and writes. That is partly what makes the internet and blogs attractive to scholars. The tradeoff is between (a) freedom and momentum, and (b) scholarly rigor and thoroughness

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:50 AM

who would downvote Eric's answer? or why?

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:50 AM

Nutritionator: I too would like him to admit to his mistakes, but I choose to focus on what he is building. I know several scholars who publish one important work and then spend their career dealing with the minutiae of responding to their critics and addressing what they did wrong. I think it is OK, maybe even good, when choose to keep moving forward rather than engaging in this sort of discourse. Though both are valuable.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:50 AM

Have you guys ever been to a "Real" Doctor? Now that's" offensive "and "incoherent".

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:50 AM

plus one.......

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:49 AM

You are soooooooo Taurus, Merbear!

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:49 AM

plus one.......

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:49 AM

Taurus isn't necessarily like a Bull in a ring with a toreador. You could be more like peace-loving Ferdinand, seeking the gentle meadows filled with flowers, sunshine and natural beauty. It's only Taurus stubbornness that can make you angry enough to charge at someone who is disturbing your peace.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:49 AM

plus one.......

Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:46 AM

im sorry, but i hardly think that the ability to communicate ones ideas and provide evidence for those ideas is a "minor detail"!! in fact, its pretty CENTRAL.

Cc7381bd787721575ea9198048132adb
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:46 AM

I don't mind mistakes either, as long as the one making them admits that's what they were and corrects them.

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:45 AM

Tartare: It doesn't. But, it happens inadvertently while he is trying to help. You are similar actually: very smart and helpful, but also sarcastic and caustic. I value you for that. Same with Dr K. You are not trying to be snippy (I think). He is not trying to be offensive. Both of you have big (and awesome) personalities.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:44 AM

Hear, Hear! I feel like one of the House of Commons guys backing up a Prime Minister. You've put things in their proper place.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:43 AM

pray tell how being incoherent helps someone help others

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:43 AM

While he does know more than most docs, not sure I'd go to him. I really wouldn't feel comfortable with him performing brain surgery on me. Just sayin.

98148e265e1a9b27ce1c206190c1b8a4
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:40 AM

idiot response.

98148e265e1a9b27ce1c206190c1b8a4
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:39 AM

pray tell how being offensive helps someone help others?

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:39 AM

Excellent! Well thought out and articulated response.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:37 AM

bravo! "He is more correct than most docs". After going to thirteen M.D. bozos over a thirty year period for a mysterious illness .I can tell you I would have given my left arm in exchange for Kruse's 51% correctiness ratio. The thirteen bozos averaged about a mere 3-5 %. I had to cure my illness all by my self.I would have save over twenty five years with the Quilts "Nonsense". No doubt.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:35 AM

@Stabby - waaaaay ahead of you bro. Double barrel?

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:34 AM

If I didn't know better I would say you are a Taurus. Well, strip down, ice up and get to your workout already! (And you call yourself a Paleohacks moderator!)

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:33 AM

That's just like me to try to solve obesity while everyone else is in a conga line.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:25 AM

This is all very interesting, Melissa and Travis. But it's not salient to the mega-drama going on in this thread :)

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0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:17 AM

They probably due via breast milk or the snacks they give to babies.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:14 AM

Yes, but it's not pervasive in certain cultures and it's completely over everything in other cultures, so I'd expect to see a difference. Although no culture I know injects it into neonates...

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0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:14 AM

Melissa, here ya go: http://www.nature.com/oby/journal/v16/n8/abs/oby2008274a.html

Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:10 AM

yeah, taretare. that sounds about right.

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:07 AM

Jaminet pretty much laughed at him in his response.

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:07 AM

Melissa, one of the ways to make a leptin-resistant/obese rat is to "lesion" their arcuate nucleus with MSG neonatally: http://journals.lww.com/neuroreport/Abstract/1999/04260/The_arcuate_nucleus_is_pivotal_in_mediating_the.5.aspx It may be that there is no going back once the damage is done.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:07 AM

If there is good info in his blog it's terribly difficult to read due to the need for improved formatting and editing.

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:04 AM

I could be wrong but it seems that a bit whack of protein and fat within 30mins of waking (which is way before most people wanna eat and way more food than most people eat) has something to do with the reduced need to snack. I have found this personally and I plan on doing a lot more research into this. May well likely end up as my masters thesis.

98148e265e1a9b27ce1c206190c1b8a4
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:02 AM

like giving credit where credit is due?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:02 AM

If MSG is the issue, than we'd see higher Leptin resistance in certain ethnic groups like Asians and Mexicans. DA know of any evidence for this?

Cc7381bd787721575ea9198048132adb
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:01 AM

Hah. Depends if you're talking to loyal leptin resetters...

Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:58 PM

well, perhaps i have a higher expectation.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:58 PM

Travis-- I have searched for citations that support these recommendations, and it has not been successful thus far. The recommendations include a strict ban on snacking, which confounds things a little. Not snacking is going to lead to good things. No, great things!

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:57 PM

@nutritionator - prophet or profit?

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:57 PM

Shut up you dummy! (kisses)

Cc7381bd787721575ea9198048132adb
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:56 PM

Your last paragraph hit home. How much healthier would our population be if people just stopped drinking soda?

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:55 PM

@akd I really do get it. Westin Price 1920's, got it. Jack Kruse 2011. Got it. personally,I do not always accumulate knowledge in the order it was presented/invented.:)

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:55 PM

Amen, amen.......

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:55 PM

Ahh, Shari, you make me laugh!

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:55 PM

Only VLC after Sept 15th. Also as a Taurus you are supposed to be doing naked workouts - while iced of course.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:55 PM

Uh sorry Shah. I'm busy massaging my nipples. Will have to get back to you later.

Cc7381bd787721575ea9198048132adb
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:52 PM

Number 4. Profit.

Cc7381bd787721575ea9198048132adb
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:52 PM

Number 4 = Profit.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:50 PM

@Shari. Exactly. and how often does that happen in life? All the time.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:49 PM

Mari is a future Rose!

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:48 PM

I say we test his nipple massage hypothesis ourselves. Ladies, after you.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:48 PM

I like the guy who lived above me in 1988 who turned me on to mushrooms. He was a creeper loser but I'm still very grateful.

Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:47 PM

K2 is not the quilts idea.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:47 PM

Wuss......still a +1 though :-)

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:46 PM

Nice answer akd

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:44 PM

@akd Yes, 300 mg of k2 is the brilliant counter example to GWB and I'll throw in Dick Cheney too . Long live Jack Kruse!

Cc7381bd787721575ea9198048132adb
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:41 PM

I did have an exam to study for, and then this Q+A happened. Going to be a late night.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:40 PM

Other Paleobloggers laugh at JK? Who other than Carbsane? I need to know!

9759643ce5d97ab8fa649ae954656c4c
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:40 PM

When I grow up I intend to surround myself with people who try to keep their bad ideas to themselves and respectfully challenge mine if I go spouting them on the internet as gospel.

Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:39 PM

if i had been the one to tell you about K2, would i get called GWBs brilliant counter example, too?

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:39 PM

if a tree has bright flowers- nature's equivalent of bling- then you probably would notice it more....

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:36 PM

@bastard. True, they did, but Kruse made me aware of it. It's the @reverse tree in the forest question.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:35 PM

So Quilt = George Bush? O.K. I'm good with that one.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:34 PM

Me and ol' Quilty had a rough past, but he's a funny dude. And the dude livens up paleohacks for sure!

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:34 PM

well I think the good results reported and recent explanations of the leptin reset don't leave people in a litter box.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:34 PM

Shari-I like that he makes me think and I appreciate his intelligence, and the time he takes to share it. There are sooo many "facts" out there, especially on this board, that completely contradict each other. So I do not fault him for his ideas and possible errors. I take his ideas and then research and think for myself. Just like with anyone else on this board.

98148e265e1a9b27ce1c206190c1b8a4
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:34 PM

actually, I think George Bush would be the kind of guy, that, were he a doctor, might give medical sight unseen advice over the internet.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:33 PM

the aircraft carrier, banner and codpiece, mer. that was an excellent idea. the "nailed it" look on his face said it all

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:33 PM

How to know that you're on PH too much: You witnessed nearly all of these exchanges. Good times.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:32 PM

What was GW's good idea again?

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:32 PM

Kruse just went off on Harris for recommending "madness" by saying safe starches are probably okay, then later Kruse said it was KGH's cancer comments that he was calling madness. But Harris had made no comments about cancer. Not one. Then Kruse said basically all oncologists recommend ketogenic diets, then Harris (and Emily Deans) pointed out that he was (again) full of crap. His comprehension of facts seems to be on the same level as his ability to write coherently.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:32 PM

chris masterjohn... hell... weston a price were talking about k2 a looooonnnnnggggg time ago.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:31 PM

Love this one!!

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:30 PM

But shouldn't the status quo be challenged with facts????? Thinking outside the box is great as long as it doesn't put you smack dab in the middle of a...litter box.

A727956fa3f943057c4edb08ad9e864e
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:28 PM

Kamal, how are you always so goddamn gracious? It's a very attribute these days.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:27 PM

Mari I was just thinking you must be Minger's long lost twin. You are as brilliant as she is!

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:26 PM

Pretty sure KGH wouldn't hide behind a pseudonym if he wanted to chew JK a new asshole. That's not his style.

Da3d4a6835c0f5256b2ef829b3ba3393
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:26 PM

KGH said that other Paleo bloggers "laugh at" Kruse, which was imo pretty petty and mean-spirited. It was a comment that was beneath him.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:25 PM

I'm real, I promise. :) Just like Denise Minger

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:25 PM

i don't think KGH needs to do anything incognito.

Da3d4a6835c0f5256b2ef829b3ba3393
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:25 PM

I can't call you wrong on that, tartare. And it definitely results in Kruse looking bad. Sorry, Quilt, if you're reading this, but I'm pretty sure what I'm saying is true. At least think about it.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:25 PM

Are you calling me a gassy ho?! (j/k)

98148e265e1a9b27ce1c206190c1b8a4
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:24 PM

nah, Kurt Harris has already given it back to Jack.

Da3d4a6835c0f5256b2ef829b3ba3393
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:23 PM

Well said. Gassho!

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:22 PM

amen...........

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:20 PM

Here's the real question: Is" Mari" really Kurt G Harris, trying to give it to his buddy "Jack"?

98148e265e1a9b27ce1c206190c1b8a4
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:19 PM

See, that's the thing though, actual dialogue and debate are positive helpful things, but attacking people whose point of view is different than yours, who happen to be very credible, experienced people as well and making these big statements that are misleading to people are not helpful IMO.

Da3d4a6835c0f5256b2ef829b3ba3393
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:13 PM

I think he writes and hits POST before taking a couple of breaths, stepping back, re-reading, re-thinking and so on. He often doesn't come across as a well thought-out guy. Nevertheless, I support the guy's efforts to help.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:13 PM

I'm trying to imagine who Mari is in real life, to have the brain to compile all this stuff. Rain Man? Rain Woman?

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:08 PM

I was pretty sharp in High School , (I did conive my way into Amherst College), but this is way out of control! I used to compile goalie statistics of the 1972 Bruins (Chevers vs. Johnston) on an index card, this is more main frame computer. :) Props Mari

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:05 PM

That was what first bothered me too. I can't even read his blog.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:04 PM

Wow. This is why I'm glad I don't follow any particular guru. My body so far has been great about giving me strong feedback, so when something works or doesn't work, I don't have to check what so-and-so said in the book or on the blog. People, keep being contrarian and independent-minded; don't depend on ANYBODY (not even the universally well-liked and popular figureheads) to figure out your own body. Nobody has your best interests at heart like you do, and nobody knows what it's like to be you better than you.

07154e6d8e42065f230d06249700fe5b
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:01 PM

Daaaaaaaaaayam.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · November 01, 2011 at 10:58 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrERtikdPus <---- this is Dougie Howser BTW.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 01, 2011 at 10:53 PM

This is the longest post ever! But at least you included a disclaimer in the tags :)

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · November 01, 2011 at 10:53 PM

Are you sure you're in High School? If so, you're like Dougie Howser smart. Oh wait, you're prolly too young to know who he is. :)

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64 Answers

Cc7381bd787721575ea9198048132adb
61
5531 · November 01, 2011 at 11:04 PM

Blanket statements and poor biochemistry aside, I cannot stand his poor grammar and lack of punctuation on this site. Most of the time his answers look like they were written by a 3rd grader.

I'm expecting to be down voted by his all too faithful followers but as you pointed out, I'm not the only person he bothers.

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a
0 · November 06, 2011 at 5:14 AM

idk if its just me, but you guys at PH seem so unappreciative of his work and time. if any of you want to change his grammar, then shut up and contact JACK KRUSE. and offer to volunteer editing his blogs before he sends them out.

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a
0 · November 06, 2011 at 5:13 AM

Cmon guys he's a busy neurosurgeon. do most of u even have a clue how demanding that is? he writes those posts often in a hurry (he comes out with one every other day for a few weeks since this summer, i was thinking HOW did he manage to do this?). he's not some no-life intellectual who will spend 5hrs writing a post, he's almost free-flowing. i admit its complicated but im a med student and i can understand his discussions on endocrinology

C1e8065a94267d0668294287d67fd3e3
0 · November 04, 2011 at 2:49 PM

One who cannot or refuses to understand due to intense grammatical errors is fairly close-minded and most likey won't benefit from any attempt to find the optimal course for their health, imho. As a teacher, grammar and spelling was highly emphasized within my educational path. However, when encouraging my students to think outside the box and express their ideas, IN THAT CONTEXT I would not severely "grade" grammar and spelling. As the Quilt often states in his writing on nutrition and health requirements you must be able to understand the CONTEXT in which you are working.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 4:36 PM

@E-CS - I was not suggesting the error rate was anywhere close. But again we are agreeing. Cease and desist!!!

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 11:33 AM

@Aravind: You make a good point, but I do not find KGH's error rate to even approach that of Jack's. And I'm sorry but the failure to capitalize proper names, I and not use apostrophes comes off as a ten year old IM-ing. It's fine for a quick comment here or there, but on his blog?? He also elevates the incoherence level using those "levees" and talking about the view from 30,000 feet.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 11:30 AM

Hi Karimoo: Yes, it's more stressed these days, as it should be. I wasn't even required to take a basic comp class in college. I did take technical communications. I only had to write perhaps a handful on non-technical papers in all my four years. (I am not quite as old as Kruse so he would have been schooled in a similar era.)

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:47 PM

Kurt Harris makes grammatical mistakes, particularly when he writes a very hurried post. But regardless of whether you agree with KGH or not, would many people accuse him of being incoherent? I think not. This is not about grammar.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:55 PM

Kinda makes you wonder where he went to medical school. It's not that easy to get in if you can't string together a sentence... Once I read more than about two misspelled words in a post, the authority of it goes down by a factor of two with every additional mistake. I guess I'm a grammar snob.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:38 PM

Grow up kid. The world is not b&w.

3193ead7a301b741aafa193c4476edea
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:06 PM

@Evelyn: Actually, as an Engineering student I have had tons of pressure to develop and maintain communication skills in my papers in order to later prevent misunderstandings in the field. I can't see the medical field being any different in this regard.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 02, 2011 at 11:18 AM

Yes, the grammar and punctuation errors go much further than simply failure-to-edit thought streams. As a graduate of an engineering school, and having been in grad school with many for whom English was a second language, I'm used to poor communication skills. But Quilt's are worse than most of those for whom there is at least an excuse -- such skills tend not to be stressed in the harder science/engineering fields, and English is a tough language to learn as a second. If it's not his strong suit, he should invest in a good inline browser spell/grammar checker and use it!

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:42 AM

I'm getting close with all of these ....plus 1's............

Cc7381bd787721575ea9198048132adb
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:35 AM

Vote limit reached dammit! I'll get you tomorrow Tom. On that note, I wonder how many others have hit the limit because of this question...

072fd69647b0e765bb4b11532569f16d
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:22 AM

+10 (if possible) for grammar and punctuation. This forum could use more attention to such detail.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:07 AM

If there is good info in his blog it's terribly difficult to read due to the need for improved formatting and editing.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:05 PM

That was what first bothered me too. I can't even read his blog.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
53
24523 · November 01, 2011 at 11:20 PM

I can't really answer, because of the whole moderator thing and my past arguments with Quilt.

But I will say that Quilt is very very knowledgeable, and I appreciate his willingness to post free information in an effort to improve people's health.

One just has to be fully informed when evaluating the advice of anyone on the internet, and this is no exception.

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.???
??? Buddha

3193ead7a301b741aafa193c4476edea
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:07 PM

Lovin' the quote!

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:53 AM

Me too kamal.. :/

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:40 AM

I picked the wrong time to run out of upvotes.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:35 AM

Her taurus is strongly moderated by her ENFPishness. I'd say ENFPness but ya can't really say that. At least not out loud.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:21 AM

Boulderdash!!!!

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:17 AM

My node is in Sag as well as my MOON. So there.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:49 AM

You are soooooooo Taurus, Merbear!

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:49 AM

plus one.......

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:49 AM

Taurus isn't necessarily like a Bull in a ring with a toreador. You could be more like peace-loving Ferdinand, seeking the gentle meadows filled with flowers, sunshine and natural beauty. It's only Taurus stubbornness that can make you angry enough to charge at someone who is disturbing your peace.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:34 AM

If I didn't know better I would say you are a Taurus. Well, strip down, ice up and get to your workout already! (And you call yourself a Paleohacks moderator!)

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:47 PM

Wuss......still a +1 though :-)

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:34 PM

Me and ol' Quilty had a rough past, but he's a funny dude. And the dude livens up paleohacks for sure!

A727956fa3f943057c4edb08ad9e864e
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:28 PM

Kamal, how are you always so goddamn gracious? It's a very attribute these days.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:25 PM

Are you calling me a gassy ho?! (j/k)

Da3d4a6835c0f5256b2ef829b3ba3393
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:23 PM

Well said. Gassho!

9e20abb05f3f6e3cc4bb107f8980aecd
50
5929 · November 03, 2011 at 2:05 AM

Jack, I apologize. Apparently on March 15, after you commented on Facebook on one of my posts, I did ask you if you would contribute a guest post fleshing out some claims you had made that surprised me. On March 21 you made the statement on PaleoHacks that I had invited you to do a guest post. When, around May or June, someone from PaleoHacks asked me if it was true, I had totally forgotten that exchange and said I hadn't. Just a loss of memory on my part.

In any case I was wrong, your statement was not false, and I apologize for thinking and saying that it was.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5
0 · November 04, 2011 at 7:49 AM

I'm with WCC Paul here.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5
0 · November 04, 2011 at 7:49 AM

I support you here Paul.

3a567c1637db69f1455ce35e78201a2c
0 · November 03, 2011 at 10:45 PM

sounds like a case of too many "safe starches" going on.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4
0 · November 03, 2011 at 7:14 PM

And @majkinetor, I really don't see what you're implying there. Even *after* I just cleared up the confusion and exonerated everyone in this situation you're still suggesting some bad intention on Mari's part? Or are you suggesting that the "careful wording" is some evasion from Quilt? I don't see any reason to believe that any of these three people -- Quilt, Mari, Paul -- was up to anything underhanded or mean-spirited.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4
0 · November 03, 2011 at 7:09 PM

OK, perhaps "miscommunication" is the wrong word. Perhaps I should have said "mistake." But there are elements of miscommunication: reasonable assumptions made given certain circumstances (Facebook versus blog versus email, etc.), and so on.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4
0 · November 03, 2011 at 7:02 PM

OK, miscommunication is perhaps not the right word. I probably should have said "mistake."

2b2c2e4aa87e9aa4c99cae48e980f70d
0 · November 03, 2011 at 5:41 PM

"Just a big miscommunication, that's all. No need to assume anyone was in the wrong" No, it was most definitely not a "miscommunication" Paul Jaminet was wrong, unintentionally, but wrong nonetheless. He then recognized that he was wrong, acknowledged it and apologized. Not a miscommunication...

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:00 PM

Yup, with careful wording everything is right :)

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4
0 · November 03, 2011 at 8:49 AM

Not bad research at all. See Paul J's comment below to Grace's answer. Just a couple of hours before Paul posted this answer he and everyone else still thought that Quilt had been fibbing. Then Paul realized he had made a mistake. Just a big miscommunication, that's all. No need to assume anyone was in the wrong -- especially not Mari.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 03, 2011 at 8:18 AM

Ah... how things can turn opposite way in a sentence or two... Mari, bad research ?

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:51 AM

Very gracious of both of you.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:25 AM

Thanks Paul but you did not have to do that. As long as you and I know that is all I care about.

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:10 AM

memory loss...prolly leptin related, no?? haaaaaaaa sike

Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051
45
15229 · November 01, 2011 at 11:25 PM

you know, ive been around here long enough that i have seen the quilt really dig himself into a few holes. ive never appreciated the tone that he uses with people when they question him. "just look it up," is not an acceptable answer when someone asks you to clarify a statement you make. it just speaks to his character in a way that i dont appreciate. i didnt know about most of this stuff here in the question, though i remember the couple of run ins that im mentioned in. seeing it all together is not totally shocking, i have to say. ive sort of long ago dismissed what he has to say since he is such a poor communicator. im also highly suspicious of anyone who gives medical advice over the interwebs. its just not ethical, and shows a lack of judgement.

i cant speak to his science, since that is not where my strengths lay but again ive seen him caught in enough tight spots that im confident that i can get much better information elsewhere.

besides, i find the relationship advice he offers to be borderline abusive. since that is where my strengths lay, i think ill follow my intuition and get my science elsewhere.

that said, im not a fan of gurus anyway. like rose, i follow my body and listen to my intuition. i never depend on information from just one source so when someone like the quilt makes a claim that i cannot verify elsewhere, its automatically dismissed. after three strikes, i stop listening. this is why i love wolf, harris, and sisson so much though. they are always seeking and striving and growing and citing. its hard work convincing people youre right, as it should be.

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a
0 · November 06, 2011 at 5:18 AM

lol you clearly have not been around surgeons. Kruse is prob one of the most helpful people, who spends his time contributing ONLINE (because the internet is a better way to disseminate info than via his mouth). as a med student, 90% of the surgeons i know are flat out overworked assholes. give the guy a break, and take his work for what its worth. he's NOT obligated to answer your questions anyways, you are incorrect that he has to even answer you if you ask q's.

792634a784ec6a636c3137d0903e11b4
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:32 PM

Great answer, AKD. Like you, I'm not an expert in the science, but I intuitively don't trust people who become abusive or dismissive when they're questioned. I prefer the approach of the other paleo teachers who are interested in sharing what they know and admit to what they don't yet understand.

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:06 PM

I wish I could up-vote this over and over! I love the way you said this akd!

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:44 PM

"Just look it up is acceptable" answer akd. Nobody has responsibility to teach you for free. Most of the people on forums demand to get information like other people are somehow responsible to do that or get money for that.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:42 PM

Just look it up is acceptable answer akd. Nobody has responsibility to teach you for free.

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a
0 · November 02, 2011 at 9:08 AM

Yep, totally agree with this.

7d0c3ea9bf8be00b93e6433d8f125ac3
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:57 AM

not to mention that if you do "look it up" or read his citations, you can see he's pulling a whole lot of stuff out of thin air. He seems to be counting on the fact that all the biochemistry terms sound really serious and impressive to the average reader to try and slip half-truths and outright lies past them.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:46 PM

Nice answer akd

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6
38
5002 · November 02, 2011 at 12:29 AM

I take issue with the way that people are responding to the Quilt. I'd like to defend him a bit.

Kruse is the type of thinker who consumes large amounts of information and then synthesizes it into a similarly large system. When he writes he is trying to bring out all of the connections that are buzzing in his head. Kruse's emphasis - as a writer - is usually on seeing everything come together, and not necessarily on providing what most of us would consider a polished, professional statement. Further, he is a very busy person who wants to help others, so the practical compromise he accepts is that his comments will be made in haste, with poor grammar, minor errors, and various moments when his tone could be misconstrued as rude or dismissive.

It is true that Dr K is an opinionated person with an aggressive, idiosyncratic sense of humor that sometimes gets him in trouble with some types of readers. But I think that he considers it an acceptable tradeoff to offend this subset of readers if it allows him to help others achieve their health goals.

So far I've talked mostly about Kruse's style, now I'd like to shift some to his content (the two are interrelated).

To begin, I'll just say that I really value Kruse's contributions to the paleo discussion. He seems to pour through more of the scientific literature than anyone else. His attempt to synthesize this literature is also the most ambitious I've seen. Most of the information he conveys is also backed up by clinical experience, so it's not just crackpot theorizing. Rather, it's informed speculation plus experimentation; and that is pretty much what science is. Kruse's background or journey - from dentistry to neurosurgery to optimal nutrition - also gives him a unique vantage point that, to my knowledge, has no parallel in this community.

Admittedly, Kruse's communication skills are not as strong or polished as they could be. His readers have to dig around his articles, make some connections on their own, read through the comments, etc. He makes readers do more work than any other science-literate blogger of which I'm aware. What I've found, however, is that in time most of it actually does come together. When Kruse makes a claim on his blog, or here on Paleohacks, that seems unwarranted and without basis, eventually the explanation and evidence on which it is based comes to light.

As for the guru issue, I'm not one to follow gurus. I follow ideas, and try to take in the ideas that sound the most original, creative, and comprehensive. On this front, it is hard to argue against what Kruse has to offer.

Say what you want about his style or personality, but you can't say that the Quilt's heart isn't in the right place. He obviously spends a great deal of his time contributing to this site and his blog. Dr K answers almost everybody's questions and comments, and he is always game for a debate. Granted, he is not as interested in providing citations as some of us would like him to be, but it is also true that, intellectually, those are the least interesting sorts of requests. When ideas and concepts are at stake, Dr K has been very dynamic, informative, and original.

I don't mind the mistakes here and there. Most people who - like me - work in academia and research know how important making mistakes is to achieving substantial progress. The big picture matters far more than whether or not a few details were mistaken along the way. This is true broadly, and it is especially true in the context of Paleohacks comments. Most of us are not in a rush to convey information that fits into a larger system that is being unveiled in pieces as it comes together before our eyes. Whether Dr K is on the right track or not, this is what he is doing, and I think that it makes sense for all of us who understand this to make special allowances because of it.

As Kruse likes to point out, he is a big boy, so criticize him all you want. He can take it. But let's not give him the wrong idea. Kruse may be doing something special. So far, I think it is pretty impressive, and I want to encourage him to keep pushing forward, minor details and pleasantries be damned.

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596
0 · September 07, 2013 at 1:28 AM

Erik, nope. Here was the question: http://paleohacks.com/questions/70535/supplementation-question#axzz1cZYQSuiQ Look at Quilt's answer and the comments. He throws out this gem at one point "I think its funny to quote a researcher with zero clinical experience treating a disease that i have seen and treated successfully thousands of time. Remarkable really." The question and Guyenet's quote had nothing to do with whatever phantom disease Quilt is talking about.

2b2c2e4aa87e9aa4c99cae48e980f70d
0 · November 03, 2011 at 10:04 PM

Is there no end to your venom, CarbSane?

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 7:32 PM

@Quilt: Nowhere do you put your credentials first? Umm ... are you for real? There's something about that Neurosurgeon on the blog homepage that says otherwise.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:23 AM

I love Donkey Kong!

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:32 PM

And after reading shari's comments it is clear she has not read my blog or my comments on my blog or the MDA thread......i freaking rec testing before anything. You have an axe to grind and you are totally FOS. As for me pushing credentials....you are also fos. No where to i put my credentials first. I find your comments most offensive because you are completely FOS and there is ample proof on the net that i dont do what you perceive. I think some doc pissed youmoff and i am now your whipping boy. Well its on like donkey kong because this doc does not like being mischaracterized.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:19 PM

Eric....you are spot on. And i do like KH and SG but i dont think i agree with them 100% of the time and i know they dont with me. It does not bother me. My goal is to change clinical medicine. Neither one of them are practicing clinical medicine so they are not my focus. I like reading their thoughts but i think like a clinician and not a researcher or a person who reviews clinical papers and does investment work and some diet consults. I see diseased patients hack them with labs and operate on some. My approach is quite different than both and my insights are different. Different is ok

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:12 PM

The thread wasn’t about osteoporosis though. Osteoporosis was brought up as an example of how high of doses have been given to people pharmacologically. The question was how much K2 should the average person take. I quoted Guyenet about how much one could get from food. That’s a pretty standard context in the Paleo world. I don’t see where it would be “remarkably funny” to bring this point up. This is all pretty trivial, but it is an example of Quilt going all scatterbrained in the middle of a discussion. I don't read his blog so maybe it doesn't happen much there, but it happens a lot here.

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:47 PM

Just read it. Osteoporosis is the disease being discussed in that thread. Kurt Harris isn't mentioned. Quilt was saying that K2 levels are chronically low in the population, and that the max used in clinical osteoporosis treatment contexts is >50mg. He recommends more K2 but chooses to not be more specific without knowing more about the contextual variables. That seems reasonable to me.

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:18 PM

Eric, this is the quote: "I think its funny to quote a researcher with zero clinical experience treating a disease that i have seen and treated successfully thousands of time. Remarkable really." It sounds like he meant "disease" to me and it sounds like it had nothing to do with the question. I understand flippant remarks, but I don't think charity extends to when the cancer advice he was criticising doesn't actually exist. After having made the flippant remark, he comes back and says he really was directing it at something that didn't exist. Then he ridicules KGH's medical practice...

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:07 PM

Paleo2: You can see, though, that he just chose the wrong word with 'disease'; and, further, that he probably doesn't dislike or disrespect Guyenet or Harris. Sometimes when people say stuff that I have developed contrary opinions about, I'll start my rebuttal with a flippant 'That's crazy!' - but my interlocutor usually understand that I'm not literally calling them or what they said crazy. I think we should extend this sort of intuitive and friendly interpretive charity to one another.

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:46 PM

Eric, it depends on your version of Paleo. Many versions emphasize fat and organ meats over protein and muscle meat. The stakes are low in these specific examples, but these are where I had direct contact with Quilt and just reinforce the general meme started in the examples in the original question. Why did he need to go out of his way to bash Guyenet and to bash me for bringing it up and why did he have to inteject phantoms diseases? He just doesnt' seem all there in his head. He called Kurt Harris's phantom cancer advice "madness". He just has too many phantoms to take seriously.

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:30 PM

Paleo2: I think its intuitive that in most cases paleos eat more meat than SADs. Meat and veggies usually replace the carbs that get nixed. Disease was the wrong word. K2 depletion is a condition that accompanies many of the diseases that Dr K has treated. It seems pretty easy to see that he meant something like this. You seem to be taking issue with details for which the stakes are low. I think this is the wrong way to go.

D5cde8031564f905260ce9aa7a1f5e2c
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:42 PM

Paleo 2.0, I believe Quilt was discussing K2 absorption by folks with compromised guts, not K2 content calculation.

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:25 PM

Eric S, the Einstein thing is trivial, but Quilt said Einstein was his hero and that he had read a biography. It is an example of basic, undisputed facts that he should know but still gets wrong. On carnosine, I asked him directly several times why is paleo anymore special than other diets like SAD that emphasize muscle meat but he just kept repeating how good carnosine was. On K2, nobody was asking how much to take to fight disease, but Kruse made some phantom argument that you need experience fighting disease or else you were somehow incompetent to calculate how much K2 there is in butter.

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:15 PM

Wjones3044: What do you mean by 'No. This is not about style.'? I'm not sure what you're referring to.

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:13 PM

Paleo2: The Einstein mistake is trivial. Dr K explains his carnosine position on his supplements blog post. And his K2 recommendations are based on what he's seen work with patients, which is experience that I don't think Guyenet gets (I really like SG btw, but he has access to different knowledge and ideas than Dr K). So, fo these cases at least, I want to say that the situation is more complicated. You might be right, but it would take a rather interesting discussion or investigation to establish that. Good news: Kruse has already made the first move, and we are all free to make the next :)

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:11 PM

Paleo2: The Einstein mistake is trivial. Dr K explains his carnosine position on his supplements blog post. And his K2 recommendations are based on what he's seen works with patients, which is experience that I don't think Guyenet gets (I really like SG btw, but he access to different knowledge and ideas than Dr K). So, in these cases at least, I want to say that the situation is more complicated. You might be right, but it would take a rather interesting discussion or investigation to establish that. Good news: Kruse has already made the first move, and we are all free to mak the next :)

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:07 PM

Paleo2.0, the reset plan actually does work for many who try it, even for folks who have been on paleo/primal for awhile without stellar results. If people new to this read this question first, they might come away with the idea that the plan is dreadful and dangerous. What's dangerous, following Sisson's or Wolf's diet plans with a few tweaks?

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:48 PM

Based upon everything I have seen, Quilt is pretty much wrong about everything. Even very basic facts. You would really have to pick through and find something he is right about. Just in responses to me he said that Einstein was a train ticket clerk instead of a patent clerk, that carnosine (found mainly in muscle meat) is what is makes the paleo diet special, that because Stephan Guyenet has no experience “treating disease” his estimate of how much K2 that could be derived from food was ridiculous. Someone needs to start a thread that lists where Quilt has actually been right about something.

531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:11 AM

No. This is not about style.

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:06 AM

Shari: if you read his blog, one of the things he repeats the most is that testing is required, and that he figured this stuff out via endless testing on patients and himself. He is a doctor and a surgeon, but testing and (self)experimentation are a major feature of his approach. We all make contributions in our little way. And I'm suggesting that we should make certain exceptions for his unique way of contributing. (Of course, though, its completely reasonable to disagree with me here.)

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:23 AM

Eric I have nothing against self-experimentation. I'm all for it in fact. But he doesn't present himself as such. In fact he's big on throwing letters in front of an after his name and by doing such he become held to a higher standard. He's not some self-experimenting blogger out in a corn field somewhere. He presents himself as a doctor, a surgeon no less, yet doesn't want to be held to the standard we would hold any other scientific or medical professional? You can't have it both ways. I had so hoped he was going to pull this off but he's left many of us broken hearted.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:22 AM

Leave it to Eric to "bring it". You are one smart dude. I didn't really have time to read this response, but I read it anyway. Balanced and intelligent commentary on Dr K in response to Mari's well composed question here.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:44 AM

Arlokk: I presume you are familiar with haters-gonna-hate panda? http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YoRvV08OZMo/TZKolUO9C4I/AAAAAAAAATk/evomi78nEXQ/s1600/HatersGonnaHatePanda.jpg

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:37 AM

lol@quite obviously. sounds like quilty science...

62f89aa727cf3ce77c36651347cabc14
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:32 AM

+1. Quilt is quite obviously a net positive. Haters will hate.

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:07 AM

Shari: I don't think of myself as having my eggs in any basket. I like his ambitious project in the sense that I find it really interesting and engaging. I also have a favorable bias toward anything heavy on self experimentation. Dr K is one of the most active and interesting self experimenters around. He could be wrong about 50% of it and we would all still stand to gain from it, so long as he kept reporting his results faithfully.

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:04 AM

Mari: His posts can be burdensome to read. Experience with turgid academic writing helps. I find that if I can look past his problems with the mechanics of English then the ideas that he is trying to express make it worth it. Of course, though, there's nothing wrong with finding it unacceptably unpleasant. This is why I think a coauthor could turn him into a complete public intellectual. However, he really has little incentive to do this, unless this is a goal of his, and I don't think it is.

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:01 AM

Akd: I agree. I also think that a majority of his claims are substantiated on his site, where he responds actively to readers' questions. And, on this site, his responsibility isn't as great, because his comments are accompanied by both criticisms and others' comments.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:55 AM

I missed the sale on Kool-aid I see? Eric you're a good guy but your eggs are in the wrong leptin-resistant basket on this one.

98148e265e1a9b27ce1c206190c1b8a4
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:46 AM

Absolutely, akd. That's the real crux of the matter.

Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:40 AM

when people make controversial claims, there is a burden of proof for that person, particularly when those claims could harm someones health. this seems very straightforward.

D7b01bbfd0b91a12c4aea43fb20adf15
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:32 AM

very well said...

98148e265e1a9b27ce1c206190c1b8a4
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:27 AM

Actually, I'm generally a very respectful and mellow person.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:25 AM

+1 eric............

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:01 AM

To clarify, by your I'm referring to Quilt's and just a general, not you.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:00 AM

Eric, you do have a good point in that scholarly backup is not necessarily needed. See Dr. Harris' blog for a great example of this. However, your writing needs to be coherent. His is literally painful to read. This is a subject I love and am very interested in but I honestly can't bring myself to read his posts. Its that bad. I also question some of his content, especially given some of the specific examples I posted above.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:00 AM

I got an anonymous down-vote too. Just for expressing an opinion that is different than most others.

Cc7381bd787721575ea9198048132adb
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:57 AM

I can agree with that Eric. Overall, I think he is helping people but I think he could help a lot more if he addressed the issues that people clearly have with some of his ideas and how he conveys them. Either way, you have my +1 for making some great points.

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:54 AM

Jeff: after a year on this site these are the first down votes that I have ever received.

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:54 AM

well he can start by defending the fact saying obese are LR...theyre not.

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:54 AM

Akd: Dr K is a subpar writer who needs an editor and maybe a co-author (I've offered my services). On his blog he provides links. That said, given his intellectual style, I think that it would slow him down significantly if he had to provide scholarly backup to everything that he says and writes. That is partly what makes the internet and blogs attractive to scholars. The tradeoff is between (a) freedom and momentum, and (b) scholarly rigor and thoroughness

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:50 AM

who would downvote Eric's answer? or why?

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:50 AM

Nutritionator: I too would like him to admit to his mistakes, but I choose to focus on what he is building. I know several scholars who publish one important work and then spend their career dealing with the minutiae of responding to their critics and addressing what they did wrong. I think it is OK, maybe even good, when choose to keep moving forward rather than engaging in this sort of discourse. Though both are valuable.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:50 AM

Have you guys ever been to a "Real" Doctor? Now that's" offensive "and "incoherent".

Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:46 AM

im sorry, but i hardly think that the ability to communicate ones ideas and provide evidence for those ideas is a "minor detail"!! in fact, its pretty CENTRAL.

Cc7381bd787721575ea9198048132adb
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:46 AM

I don't mind mistakes either, as long as the one making them admits that's what they were and corrects them.

77ecc37f89dbe8f783179323916bd8e6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:45 AM

Tartare: It doesn't. But, it happens inadvertently while he is trying to help. You are similar actually: very smart and helpful, but also sarcastic and caustic. I value you for that. Same with Dr K. You are not trying to be snippy (I think). He is not trying to be offensive. Both of you have big (and awesome) personalities.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:44 AM

Hear, Hear! I feel like one of the House of Commons guys backing up a Prime Minister. You've put things in their proper place.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:43 AM

pray tell how being incoherent helps someone help others

98148e265e1a9b27ce1c206190c1b8a4
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:40 AM

idiot response.

98148e265e1a9b27ce1c206190c1b8a4
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:39 AM

pray tell how being offensive helps someone help others?

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:39 AM

Excellent! Well thought out and articulated response.

Af005ec9a8e028f2b04bf5367b64e0d6
32
2797 · November 01, 2011 at 11:18 PM

this guy says things that are factually wrong and talks down about legitimate science way too much. his advice might work for you and make you healthier - after all, as far as I know he sticks to the paleo framework to some level of strictness, right? but I would take everything he says with a grain of salt. Working in the field doesnt mean he's always got the science down if he's not going to be conscientious about checking sources and facts before he posts and gives advice. MDs are not superhuman. Also, as someone who invokes his authority as an MD almost constantly, I question the ethics of his posts where he does give medical advice without knowing the patient or often having a basis for making recommendations. He should probably be careful about that.

C1e8065a94267d0668294287d67fd3e3
0 · November 04, 2011 at 2:55 PM

Just look where "legitimate science" has gotten us in the last 50 years! And, as one whose health has been RUINED by "legitimate medical advice" from physicians over the last 40 years, I totally applaud Dr. Kruse's courage to swim with the sharks and bat at their inabilities to understand basic biochemistry! If they went to any kind of good medical school they did "study" biochemistry ... at least bought the books. He is just attempting to get them to go back and READ them.

792634a784ec6a636c3137d0903e11b4
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:36 PM

+ 1 here, too. There are many, many well qualified people teaching and advising in this paleo arena, most of whom still identify as learners and explorers. I love following the processes of people like Robb Wolf when he gets a question he doesn't know the answer to. I guess I need to see that process in order to be able to evaluate the validity of the answer.

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:02 AM

thank you, awesome agreement here...

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6
31
3891 · November 02, 2011 at 3:13 AM

A point for any of his followers to keep in mind is that a clinician is not necessarily a trained scientist.

Despite his medical knowledge, his results seem to me to be N=1 at this point, just like the rest of us. He's made amazing personal progress with his health and fitness and that's to be respected. Like many of us, he has a great story about regaining his well-being through paleo.

However, I find it hard to believe that he has had sufficient time to collect the clinical data necessary to support his theories; like many of us, he hasn't been paleo for a long time. A careful clinician will not jump to sweeping conclusions based on a few patients, or just his own results. Blanket statements, erroneous cites, and inchoate postings are not solidifying his position.

Given sufficient and rigorous investigation, some of his ideas could prove to be valid while others go to the dustbin. His leptin prescription does seem to be helping some people based on the testimonials here, and he has a strong passion for all things paleo. He's full of ideas and contributes a lot here, but a clear delineation between fact and speculation when making connections between ideas in the medical and academic literature would be helpful and on the level.

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6
0 · November 07, 2011 at 7:26 PM

@Asian Grok: I doubt even very smart people. To not do so is to be intellectually empty.

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6
0 · November 06, 2011 at 7:09 PM

@Asian Grok: I didn't question his intelligence or drive. There are a lot of smart people floating around here on PH.

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a
0 · November 06, 2011 at 5:21 AM

yes he may not be an eminent "research scientist" but given Kruse's path to becoming a neurosurgeon WHILE OBESE all his life, i'm sure the guy is incredibly driven and smart. for those of you who don't think so, MD is competitive enough. he's top of the food chain here. i think he's given health/nutrition lots of thought even before paleo probably. don't doubt him just because most ppl aren't that smart

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6
0 · November 04, 2011 at 8:08 PM

JayJay: Yes. That almost exactly what my doctor told me when I was discussing some current research on lipids with him. It led to an interesting discussion on the roles of the clinician and the scientist.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52
0 · November 04, 2011 at 7:36 PM

Evidence based medicine takes into account current research ALONG WITH clinical experience AND patient preferences....so, no a clinician is not a scientist. The scientist relies almost solely on the research. Nothing inherently long with either, but they have obvious different lenses through which they work.

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6
0 · November 03, 2011 at 3:06 PM

A clinician will read a lot of research papers from particular disciplines in search of new information to digest and synthesize into existing ideas, but he or she is not automatically a research expert in those fields.

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:10 PM

A neurosurgeon does surgery and is not necessarily a research scientist. The point I'm trying to make is the methods of the clinician versus the researcher are different. Not every clinician is a capable research scientist, though some doctors do live in both worlds.

Af005ec9a8e028f2b04bf5367b64e0d6
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:50 PM

A neurosurgeon sure as hell better be a trained scientist.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:44 PM

WTF does "trained scientist" actually mean?

3193ead7a301b741aafa193c4476edea
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:16 PM

Great answer, definitely agreed.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:35 AM

Very balanced post. Nicely done.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
30
13682 · November 01, 2011 at 11:46 PM

Mari,

I do not read this as antagonistic at all. The fact that you have presented both positives and negatives was very thoughtful of you. This is a VERY tough question and even tougher to answer fairly. Since it seems really appropriate, I am going to reference my response to the question from Matthew yesterday -

We could go on and on about how someone earns our trust and becomes a "guru" that we rely upon (e.g. formal training, letters before/after their name, personal life transformation story, etc). Peter at Hyperlipid says "no gurus". However my take is that there are gurus, but it is not a tenured position. It needs to be continually earned (or at least not lost).

Perhaps it will be more efficient "via negativa" to answer this question

  • Has he/she ever blatantly lied or falsified information?
  • Does the person make bold claims absent supporting information? I am not talking about cites for every last claim, but at least controversial ones.
  • Does he/she have a history of being litigious on blogs and forums with dissenting views?
  • Is he/she unwilling to consider alternate points of view?
  • Does he/she imply omniscience rather than acknowledging limitations of his/her knowledge?
  • Does the person engage in ad hominem attacks?
  • Does the person have an incoherent writing style? Genius that no one else can comprehend is not very useful.
  • Is the person emotionally unstable? This might seem odd but it is difficult to trust someone, even versed in science, that arguably needs to be institutionalized, or at least get some intensive therapy
  • Is the person respected by his peers? This is not synonymous with complete agreement on all points

I could go on. This is not the be all / end all list, just an off the cuff response to the question. Also, this is obviously not a black-white assessment - there are many shades of grey. But if a person fails enough of the questions, then one must consider the possibility that this person is doing more harm than good for our community.

Also, I do NOT think the argument "well, a lot of people have gotten healthier following his/her advice" holds water. People have gotten healthier following Ornish and Oz also. Correlation is not causation

I don't think it is a secret that I have not always seen eye to eye with Quilt. But I do agree with the positives you have cited and I have nothing against him as an individual. To the extent that you have merely copied these quotes from previous posts/blogs, I have to assume that the veracity of these items are not questionable. However, I think the "facts" you have a presented definitely are cause for concern, particularly the excerpts of distortions and comments Quilt has made. The information you have presented is particularly troublesome because I know there are many new and impressionable members of PH community that need to be mindful of the advice they are receiving.

Let's face it, Quilt has become a significant member of the Paleo community, and with that comes responsibility on his part, dare I say some level of accountability - not simply as a blogger but as an MD and someone that could influence many in a positive way.

The bottom line to me is that there are a many paths forward. So will he,

  1. Not dismiss this post and take the time to address what you've raised in a thoughtful manner analogous to the effort you have taken? And perhaps use it as opportunity for self improvement and growth?
  2. Tell people to f*ck off because he has a following now and doesn't give two sh|ts what others think because he has achieved his objectives in the blogosphere
  3. Love every minute of it!
  4. None of the above

I eagerly await his response. Thanks for posting this question. I hope some day I grow up to be as mature as you (not likely).

JarJaravind, out...

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 7:36 PM

Yep ... appears I did. I was responding to your #2 possible Quilt respons. Sorry 'bout that! LOL on the "all look alike" thing. I'll play my dumb blonde card here. :) This is a long thread!

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:32 PM

@E-CS - looks like you confused Kamal and me since he has not commented on this thread. Indian dudes all look the same so it is completely understandable :-)

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 11:01 AM

@All: If Quilt wants to leave his MD at the office then he shouldn't go around discussing his clinical experience and blaring "Neurosurgeon!" on his blog. Thing is if he did leave it at the office nobody would listen to him.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 10:59 AM

@Kamal: How will he respond? Looks like he took option 2. Tell people to f*ck off ... well, not that exactly. More like kiss his hardened ass.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:11 PM

I can say that personally, having an MD attached to a name carries absolutely no weight with me.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:16 PM

To say that the MD is left in the office is also a bunch of nonsense. He has commented about others for not being clinicians or just reading films (i.e. Kurt Harris), so obviously he thinks it is important. And if you think having MD behind his name is not the basis for his credibility with many, that is again a bunch of nonsense. So when it's convenient, his medical background is relevant, and when it's not, it's not. Ok, now I understand.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:35 PM

Ofcourse Aravind, those are only opinions, no hard feelings. My opinion is that your opinions on this are bunch of nonsense. I didn't left the part, he is MD in his office, he is just another blogger here.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:31 PM

@maj - you are entitled to your opinion...as am I. You also left out the part that he is an MD (not just a blogger) in your assessment.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:00 PM

**"Quilt has become a significant member of the Paleo community, and with that comes great responsibility on his part, dare I say some level of accountability"** : Wow, what a bunch of nonsense.

6e62a2c558d01dc30c62d94058d958af
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:19 AM

Woah...meredith, yoouurr'ee outta heree!

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:17 AM

Meredith - my dumbness is proportional to my love for you. Infinite!

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:49 AM

plus one.......

Cc7381bd787721575ea9198048132adb
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:01 AM

Hah. Depends if you're talking to loyal leptin resetters...

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:57 PM

@nutritionator - prophet or profit?

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:57 PM

Shut up you dummy! (kisses)

Cc7381bd787721575ea9198048132adb
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:52 PM

Number 4. Profit.

Cc7381bd787721575ea9198048132adb
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:52 PM

Number 4 = Profit.

98148e265e1a9b27ce1c206190c1b8a4
30
5146 · November 01, 2011 at 11:08 PM

There is a misplaced tone of aggressiveness in a lot of what he said, and the comments about Kurt Harris' practice were definitely out of line and frankly, jerky. In my experience these are not the hallmarks of a very profound mind.

I also have a difficult time with unfounded, blanket, black and white statements.

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596
0 · November 02, 2011 at 11:45 PM

Quilt you were just plain wrong and were cold busted in an open forum, but you come back and here and try to pretend otherwise. Is there any wonder why people don't trust what you say at times?

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596
0 · November 02, 2011 at 11:34 PM

Quilt, Jimmy included the content of the email that he sent everybody as part of his post: http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/is-there-any-such-thing-as-safe-starches-on-a-low-carb-diet/11809, so maybe the question about who has a clue or not is still up in the air or maybe you got your own very specieal phantom email from Jimmy that nobody else got (you are so special). You also said in your answer that you had read Dr. Harris's response. So where exactly is Harris's cancer advice that you have called "madness?" Was this a phantom email too or a phantom blog post?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:33 PM

But dont let that stop you chief. Stir the pot.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:20 PM

You did not see the question i was asked so you do not have a clue.

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:32 PM

Kruse just went off on Harris for recommending "madness" by saying safe starches are probably okay, then later Kruse said it was KGH's cancer comments that he was calling madness. But Harris had made no comments about cancer. Not one. Then Kruse said basically all oncologists recommend ketogenic diets, then Harris (and Emily Deans) pointed out that he was (again) full of crap. His comprehension of facts seems to be on the same level as his ability to write coherently.

Da3d4a6835c0f5256b2ef829b3ba3393
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:25 PM

I can't call you wrong on that, tartare. And it definitely results in Kruse looking bad. Sorry, Quilt, if you're reading this, but I'm pretty sure what I'm saying is true. At least think about it.

98148e265e1a9b27ce1c206190c1b8a4
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:19 PM

See, that's the thing though, actual dialogue and debate are positive helpful things, but attacking people whose point of view is different than yours, who happen to be very credible, experienced people as well and making these big statements that are misleading to people are not helpful IMO.

Da3d4a6835c0f5256b2ef829b3ba3393
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:13 PM

I think he writes and hits POST before taking a couple of breaths, stepping back, re-reading, re-thinking and so on. He often doesn't come across as a well thought-out guy. Nevertheless, I support the guy's efforts to help.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
29
8879 · November 02, 2011 at 12:24 PM

The super-annoying spelling/grammar issues aside, my problems with Kruse are:

(1) Science w/o Substantiation:

When someone says "My principles are based around optimizing life through science not opinion???, then they better be prepared to put up or shut up! Quilt is responsible (for better or worse depending on the Hacker - grin) for my return to PH because I asked him on his blog to substantiate a claim that Mg deficiency ALWAYS precedes IR. That is a pretty bold statement. A statement like that implies that there is overwhelming evidence in the peer review literature to support it. A consensus if you will. When I asked him, he first sent me to {paraphrase} 'any biochem text ever published'. Huh? If this is really common knowledge at the textbook level, he should at least have a page number to cite, no? I've searched my PDF copy of G&H Textbook of Medical Physiology and found nothing. Next he sent me to a thread here where others listed a bunch of citations. Lots of info out there linking Mg and IR, but none of the cites I had time to look into further supported the claim.

Bottom line: Kruse's broad authoritative statements lack substantiation most of the time. Instead of providing the information, he would rather send his readers off on wild goose chases. Paleo as those may be, that is not courteous behavior. If your claims are backed by science you've read, referencing the relevant citations should be part of the initial presentation of said claims. Absent that, one should at least be prepared to provide the support when asked.

(2) Consistency:

Jack and I got off to a bad start on my blog. Yeah, I'm not the most politically correct tactful blogger out there, but I call them as I see them. Jack rhymes with the noise a duck makes, and having read about nipple massages and such this guy came off immediately as one to me. Still, at the time many were doing his plan and discussing him over at Jimmy's LLVLC forum. I called him the LLVLC "flavor of the month". Jack took exception to that in my comments saying that he was not low carb and folks at AHS were even shocked by his carb consumption. OK. But then I listened to his interview with Jimmy and read some comments on his blog and ... darnit ... he's supporting Taubes and telling his readers that VLC is what works for him. I asked again in his comments.(#) I got a rude reply. I don't care if he's LC, HC, no C, hyper C. I don't care if he cycles weekly or seasonally, but be consistent! (#Note: I tried to discuss this with him as CarbSane but I was apparently banned from comments and my posts disappeared. So I tested another ID/email and those went to moderation. He let through one comment by me posting as LCC and responded. I tried to respond as CarbSane ... that's in perpetual moderation apparently).

(3) Made Up Words

I initially thought that levee was a typo and he was instead talking about levels. But I was wrong. It's unnecessarily confusing.

(4) WTF Equations????

His Leptin Reset post ends with this:

(QUILT SURVIVABILITY) = (Total Energy ??? Growth and immunity expense) X (RESOURCES) X (efficiency) X (awareness of our environment)

Stated in levee form where: Cell longevity = LS ??? IGF-1 + immunity X Food Quality X leakiness of Mitochondria X environmental cues

  1. I have no freakin' clue what to make of such equations!
  2. Is IGF-1 the bad guy?

Point 2 is a biggie b/c PROTEIN stimulates IGF-1. Last I checked his whole plan begins with frontloading a BAHPB. I've asked him about IGF-1 and what stimulates it. He emailed me a paper. If we're talking insulin resistance, IGF-1 is an insulin sensitizer. The work of Gannon & Nuttal in this regard, that I blogged on in The LoBAG Diets for treatment of Type II Diabetes and IGF-I, discusses this.

(5) The "Out"

All anomalies can be explained by whether or not you're leptin sensitive or resistant. If his plan doesn't work, you were obviously already LS. If you have any problem in life, you're definitely LR. Melissa's 100 yr carb eating granny? Must be LS. John Q Pudgy? He's LR. Anyone can make up any old sort of crap when you can simply dismiss what doesn't fit the model with such flippant generalizations.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · December 12, 2011 at 1:09 PM

@Brad: ??? I try to answer comments/questions on my blog. Did I miss something you asked?

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e
0 · December 11, 2011 at 9:46 PM

Carbsane, Im curious as to why you so frequently answer questions here, but don't answer them on your own blog. If you're going to throw a party, at least be a good host.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84
0 · November 12, 2011 at 11:44 PM

Resources in the above could be vitamins, or enzymes or hormones. (comment was too long to fit in properly.)

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84
0 · November 12, 2011 at 11:42 PM

What's so hard to understand about this: SURVIVABILITY = (Energy – Growth&immunity expense) X RESOURCES X efficiency X (awareness of our environment) Survivability depends on energy. Subtract that used for repairs, immune support, or growth. Then, multiply this by the limiting factors. If low on resources, survivability goes down. If you're broken, you're inefficient - at digestion, energy use, etc., survivability goes down. If you're unaware of your environment (look out for that bus that's about to run you over!) your survivability goes down. So easy a cavedawg can understand it!

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 04, 2011 at 12:55 AM

Oh ... and Aravind, we're good :-)

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb
0 · November 03, 2011 at 11:26 PM

While it might not have frozen over, it has at least gotten a bit chilly :)

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 7:41 PM

@Aravind: I just checked. Hell hath not frozen over just yet. >8)

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 7:41 PM

OK David, now please explain how there are different levees to the Leptin Reset Quilt or whatever.

1d9af5db8833413037be3ac48964714f
0 · November 03, 2011 at 7:19 PM

levee |ˈlevē| noun an embankment built to prevent the overflow of a river.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 7:16 PM

@Ev-CS - Now I am agreeing with you AND Travis. Bizarro world^2. Jokes aside, let me also state the same in public. I enjoy seeing your participation here. Would like to put our past disagreements behind us also.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 6:23 PM

Thank you for saying this Travis. Twas not necessary as I've let that water flow under the bridge, but MUCH appreciated. :-)

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 03, 2011 at 5:50 PM

Evelyn, I should take this time to say that I agree with most of what you've written that I have read (specifically about body fat regulation etc.) and that I consider you a valuable addition to the paleo/fat loss/human health & nutrition communities. Your total lack of tolerance for BS is also refreshing. That all being said, my conduct in that exchange on Peter's blog is more than a little embarrassing in hindsight, to say the least, especially since I now would probably completely agree with what you were saying then.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 5:11 PM

Also, how are they going to get fixed if they don't know what's broken? The recs are then just stabs in the dark, and more and more expensive ones at that.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 5:10 PM

No Adriana, that's not what I said. Getting back to Quilt being about science and not opinion, if he's going to recommend these supps, he needs to back that up with some proof that they actually work in attainable doses. When someone gives you a list of supplements -- let's just say even five -- you try them at what doses? All at once? Etc. Here is where Paul Jaminet shines b/c he WILL cite studies to support recommendations, and if you have an issue I've seen none more generous with his time to share his knowledge than Paul.

2b2c2e4aa87e9aa4c99cae48e980f70d
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:41 PM

Now it's Jack's fault that the supplements that he recommends are expensive??? He is dealing with people with broken metabolisms, or people who want to optimize their bodies. These are people who in all probability will never reach 100% due to the ravages of years of CW. He is pretty clear that most LR people can get fixed without the testing and the supplements; it will just take them a lot longer to get there. Everybody has to their own personal cost-benefit analysis.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 11:55 AM

And then if it doesn't work for them we're again in this la la land of caloric denial. Only for you if you're LS calories don't matter. That is a joke Jack. I may not have mega threads but I have received emails from people who finally realized that calories count, started counting them, and after being stuck doing low carb or just Paleo or whatever have finally lost the weight. Usually slowly but surely. These are those "nobody else tries to help but you" types. Many of them don't need yet another pie-in-the-sky based approach, they need the truth.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 11:51 AM

Quilt, perhaps it's because as a formerly obese person myself, I am bothered by the advice out there on the internet. Your program will work for people because it is a protein rich VLC diet. No snacking and no eating late in the day and you've got a mini-IF combined with the satiety of protein and VLC. Folks have nothing to lose following that advice. After that? Well there's the laundry list of supplements you suggest, some horrifyingly expensive. While you won't profit from them (like some others) doesn't make the advice that sends desperate folks to opening their wallets any better.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:27 PM

If she said one nice thing i would have disaapointed. I am now relieved.

C471216c9fb4fcf886b7ac84a4046b49
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:15 PM

bahahhahah good response, but i wish you woulda dug more dirt on the science being incredibly wrong...and the fact LR isnt real...

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:36 PM

Oh man, I am relieved to learn that even you are perplexed by that equation. I thought it was just me! That I was too dumb to understand it fully. I feel much better about my brain now. Thank you.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:33 PM

+1 for the WTF Equations. Several of us have had a laugh or two about that Evelyn

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:32 PM

+! for the WTF Equations. Several of us have had a laugh or two about that Evelyn

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5
26
18397 · November 02, 2011 at 5:56 PM

As Kamal (Patrik) added, this thread is borderline, specifically because we don't want to participate or even encourage mean spirited ad hominem attacks on character merely for the sake of vulture feeding.

That aside, Dr K has made enough of a wave in the Paleo community, and has created enough of a name for himself, that I think a thread that pointedly discusses his ideas and claims is warranted, and perhaps even necessary at this point. Mari (love this girl) has taken great care to point out both sides from a relatively objective vantage point... positives and negatives. Some answers here are very well articulated and balanced, and some are not. I'll leave that at that.

Dr K (aka The Quilt) came onto the Paleo scene in a flurry, making bold claims and ruffling feathers right out of the gate. That can work against him or work for him depending on how it unfolds. I think both are true. In the very beginning, many people completely 100% did not believe that he was a real Doc. (I am talking specifically about people who made such comments, not at all those who merely 'questioned' his authenticity.) Well, he is a real Doc, with a live website with pictures and a Bio with detailed certification claims.

For better or for worse, Dr K has actually influenced me enough to make certain specific choices regarding my lab numbers and concerns about my health.

  1. I took his advice about guar gum and ordered some. I've taken 3 small doses in total. All 3 times, it has given me a splitting migraine headache and quite honestly made me feel like total garbage. Anyone who needs 2 bottles of pure guar gum powder... just lemme know. lol.

  2. I have also purchased Vitamin K2 MK4 5,000 mcg and take it daily.

  3. I have an appt today in 4 hours from now to give blood for the first time per his (and several others actually) recommendations to reduce my iron stores.

You see.. my actions listed above are EXACTLY why this thread and Matt's is important. In this digital age of readily available interconnectedness with such an army of online so called "experts", people are open to considering the advice of the gurus because of the disappointing approach taken by conventional medicine Docs. As a community, it is imperative that we fact check and carefully consider the information with discernment.

His grammar? It doesn't bother me as much as it bothers others, but since I am looking at this from a broader perspective, I would say that he could use some help here. A proofer. A spell-check. A grammar check. Whatever. BUT!! As Eric and others have mentioned, Dr K uses multiple resources to post, including wireless devices and such when he is out and about. On one hand, we could shrug it off and say who cares. On the other, is it really that difficult to spell check for a moment? The computer will do it for you. Is it really so important to get the article published immediately moments before picking up a scalpel!!?? In my opinion??? No. I think taking several minutes to spell check, grammar check, and re-read and possibly have someone else read through it would be more beneficial than hastily publishing poorly constructed articles that frustrate your own readers.

False Claims and Statistics - Yah this is a weird one. I think it's pretty established by now that he does this. We've all tried to call him out on it, but he just kinda moves forward. I think he just puts so much info out there, that by default he's gonna get tangled up at times. But that's no excuse. Everyone makes little blunders here and there. No worries on that, but when it's chronic, people notice.

Aggressive and (at times) flippant tone - I take issue with this, and I've been plenty vocal about it. For the most part, I enjoy the Doc. But I do not enjoy nor do I support his tone toward people at times. That's largely subjective, because many people do not like Dr Harris's tone either. But personally speaking, Dr Kruse has antagonized me about my own health situation and it doesn't speak well to me at all. I too spend a great deal of time researching health and wellness from a Paleo perspective and am trying with all my might to figure out what's going on with me. I've got loads of well meaning, highly intelligent, and well studied folks giving me "advice" over the internet with the best intent in mind. From Chris Masterjohn to Dr Davis to Dr Ayers and even PaleoHackers like Travis Culp and so many others. But for some reason, Dr K thinks that's it's incredibly clear that his advice is the only advice, and makes derogatory remarks about how I need to "take it more seriously" and "when you are frustrated enough" and "it's easy to see what to do... the question is do you have the willpower" or whatever (I'm paraphrasing generalizations btw.. not quoting). Simply put, that's condescending and unprofessional. I value information and help, especially since my own doctors are so far off base that I have to turn to the internet for better info. But anyone who unnecessarily speaks down to others loses a percentage of my respect for them.

But!! Dr K spends a great deal of his time researching/testing his ideas about health and wellness, and particularly from a Paleo perpsective. He is a big picture thinker. He is very knowledgeable about human anatomy and the science-y biochemistry behind it. And He PROMOTES Paleo, and that folks, is valuable. Some might see his claims and ideas as more of a liability to Paleo than an asset, and (with all considerations in mind), I disagree. My stance on this is almost exactly that of Eric's. Personally I feel that Dr K is a net positive (as others have pointed out).

Conclusion: Given a multiple choice to keep him around or lose him, I???d keep him around and trust the community to put his ideas and claims into a refiner's fire. Let???s let PaleoHacks be the resource it???s intended to be and hack away at his ideas. He even welcomes that himself, which is great.

C0cf19329f850011e66d1ccfa7d10896
0 · November 13, 2011 at 4:34 AM

I have heard Rosedale saying that one must first know where they are starting, as it is excess ferritin that mediates the damage of excess iron, and it is ferritin that one must bring down. I have not even heard one person suggest getting a ferritin test first?

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a
0 · November 06, 2011 at 5:36 AM

Dr. Kruse is obv a big picture, intuitive guy and intakes a million pieces of data/experiences, tries to make something out of it in a few hrs. He's onto a lot of big things that only a very smart guy can fathom, but maybe hard to find the specific sources (if there are any) to back him up. Also, if you guys don't like his grammar (he is busy), why not contact him and volunteer to spell check his work before sending it out? its not that hard...

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:53 AM

Oh, I agree, Loon. But it's the view from the inside that drives it. Or at least that's what I think is going on.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:37 AM

@Rose, the public has no respect for the Tribe. 20 out of 20 for diet plans, even worse than Atkins? How can anybody get a worse score than Atkins in public opinion? How can the Quilt make 20 out of 20 worse?

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:01 AM

The suspense is killing me.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:36 PM

Lol. Plus one shah!

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:34 PM

Jack, I'm still waiting for the multiple choice question. Isn't you conclusion question more yes or no? Does that really qualify as multiple choice. Isn't it just "Choice". Nontheless, Good luck on your blood test. Never has a blood test been anticipated by so many.( I was too young to remember Eisenhauer's heart attacks.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:32 PM

Do it Jack! Take this hypothetical job as editor.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:50 PM

I like me some jack k......just saying

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:32 PM

Excellent answer Kronky. Well written too. Maybe Quilt can hire you to edit his blog?

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:23 PM

JakeA - that's good news about dark chocolate. I eat 85% and love it.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:14 PM

I do understand, though, why some folks are going after him with such zeal. I think that for those who are invested in the concept of "Paleo," or even the Tribe of Paleo, there's an instinct for gatekeeping at work -- they don't want to see charlatans in positions of power, weakening public respect for the Tribe. Those of us who are less invested in "Paleo" as a concept or group probably find him -- and other figureheads and would-be figureheads -- easier to take (or leave, as the case may be).

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:13 PM

Nice answer. To use your words, well articulated and balanced.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:11 PM

Nice answer Jack.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:10 PM

Perfect answer, Jack. Yes, rather than a referendum on the man, I'd like to see his prescriptions and ideas hacked, just as we do others' ideas. And I love the image of the refiner's fire.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:10 PM

+1 Jack. His bluntness can be demoralizing for some, even if he means well.

1ec4e7ca085b7f8d5821529653e1e35a
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:04 PM

Not to hijack your answer Jack, but if you're interested in reducing total blood iron levels Robb Wolf spoke about this in his podcast this week. He mentioned the same idea of either donating blood monthly or so or using dark chocolate as an iron absorption inhibitor. You probably already saw that but I just wanted to let you know in case you hadn't.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:04 PM

Good answer Jack. It would be nice if he can learn and improve but if not I still think he is interesting to have around, with people aware of the points that you raise.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:03 PM

Good answer Jack. I would prefer than he can learn and improve but if not I still think he is interesting to have around, with people aware of the points that you raise.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94
26
4359 · November 02, 2011 at 12:17 AM

He is confident. Unfortunately, he is also often wrong. That's a bad combination. I don't trust anything he says.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:35 PM

Wrong.....post where the science is wrong chief. Make a list and check it twice because i will be ready. Yall dont like how i do things.....and im cool with it. And i am not changing for the audience here. I do things for audience that others alienate. You all are doing a fine job of that daily.

6e62a2c558d01dc30c62d94058d958af
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:20 AM

This is bad behavior Jay....youurr'ee outta here!

7d0c3ea9bf8be00b93e6433d8f125ac3
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:54 AM

@Ben I agree. When he first started posting I felt like I was in the emperor has no clothes or something. I'm only up to second-year university biochemistry but it's clear that so much of what he says is not factually correct or supported by evidence (even his own citations), it's weird to see him elevated to guru status for basically making things up and being really confident about it.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:19 AM

@ben me too. that kind of surety when it comes to something as complex as science and health sends off alarm bells in my head...

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:18 AM

I been butting heads with Q since the get to on these boards. Good to see others questioning so much of his erroneous commentary

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74
22
2231 · November 02, 2011 at 12:51 AM

i dont believe in leptin resistance, thus i quit reading the quilt after he made the DANGEROUS assertion that someone with hypothalamic amenorrhea is LR...@$$ backwards my friend. when it comes to eating disorders he would do himself a favor NOT to give advice or talk about them period., i wrote this rant over at MDA yesterday:

that reset BS has nothing to do with leptin... protein, and that much, is gonna cause any and everyone to eat less period. no snacking is just another dieting antic to get you to eat less. coconut oil is BS as well, it works for a couple days, after that its NOS, not gonna work.25 carbs...again its a dieting antic.

what does ANYTHING about the 'reset' have to do with leptin...NOTHING. leptin is an evolutionary female based hormone, meaning it is only really important in the context of a female, and in her reproductive years. any reading on the hormone itself shhhhould lead everyone to that conclusion. males can have low leptin, if youre a dieting male it is expected, duh. lose fat=lose leptin....YOUR NOT becoming resistant to it, you just lose it as you lose fat! your not resistant to leptin when your fat either, you have a ton. i dont understand how people dont understand this...

i can also quote this same leptin genius saying 'insulin equals death'....now again, this is impossible. spiking your insulin means your body is shuttling off nutrients/aminos- PERIOD. if you eat sh*t that is supposed to spike insulin but doesnt have the nutrients to back it up(SAD food) then again, duh, your gonna have continuously high insulin b/c your body is waiting for nutrients that aint coming.

if there is ANY truth to dr kruse's stuff, it's that he has it a$$ backwards. what needs to be 'studied' is the brain's insensitivity to dopamine(i swear if someone says this is b/c of leptin resistance.....lol). leptin alters dopamine, i know. but it is the dopamine deficiency that was first. this causes the weight to climb uncontrollably, the hormones to whack out, the insulin to go haywire, the leptin to f-up, the lazy feeling, adrenal fatigue whatever it is...this same dopamine problem leads also to fat burning problems. same reason certain people given depression meds gain weight...it blocks their dopamine receptors. same reason exsmokers gain weight and heroin addicts sudden get fat. anything that does this leads to the body signaling starvation. low leptin leads to dopamine problems...again, NOTHING about this is related to being resistant to leptin in anyway...

insulin is a body fat signal leptin is a body fat signal

to me, low dopamine should be present, along with low leptin on a ketogenic diet. if the body is functioning correctly, this diet in a roundabout way signals 'starvation' i.e, hibernation. if this didnt happen, how would early man have survived hibernation, the responses NEEDED to happen. so, one on a prolonged VLC diet is going to have downgraded dopamine receptors(but a plus, they should be more sensitive), part of the reason a change in diet leads to weight gain and people inevitably feel they will keep gaining. Dr kruse's MASSIVE LIST of testing and supplements will keep your brain high enough to possibly combat some stuff, but i for one am not shoving 283476510354 lbs of pills in my body, ever. period.

NEITHER leptin or insulin will function correctly with a dopamine problem. this is where stephen DOES have some ground in his 'food reward' stuff, i just think he is presenting it wrong. i dont think obesity is a brain disease like he does. its still not all about the brain, studies show insulin resistant muscles ALSO have insulin resistant brains- this, i am guessing is a factor/result of mitochondrial malfunctioning(which i am still reading about). however, if your brain reads low leptin(deficent) then so will your CNS, your liver, your muscles...you have leptin receptors all over your body(and for females the one's on the ovaries are where we get sh*tted on- amenorrhea etc..)

also, leptin is key to muscle breakdown and growth. if youre someone trying to gain muscle and eating lbs of protein with no result, your low on leptin. it factors into protein synthesis/breakdown and IGF.

dr kruse reminds me of Tabues but instead of insulin it is leptin.

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a
0 · November 06, 2011 at 7:19 AM

@sherpa idk about anorexia but bulimia to me is obesity + purging. you say work on the mental aspect, i say work on the nutritional aspect first. that's what i did, and eventually i had no more cravings nor excess appetite. i didn't need to purge or go apeshit with my exercise, and lost my weight naturally.

C1e8065a94267d0668294287d67fd3e3
0 · November 04, 2011 at 3:05 PM

"Not believing in" something does not make IT wrong. If I "don't believe in" gravity, will I not fall to my death if I step off a cliff and land at the bottom of the Grand Canyon?

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 03, 2011 at 10:44 PM

@sherpa, it looks like over at mda there are several with BED who are finding the reset helpful.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705
0 · November 03, 2011 at 3:11 AM

I don't think the Leptin RX would help anyone with an eating disorder. Speaking as someone with Binge Eating Disorder (which isn't even always recognized as an "official" disorder) I know I had so much more to fix than most. Once I got a handle on the mental part, then I was able to work on the nutrition portion.

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:56 AM

treat it a lot...PLEASE direct me to the patients with REAL,,,,REAL anorexia nervosa(not just someone starving themself) who was treated with your RX or advice...

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:54 AM

dont worry quilt i have a body temp in the high 90s everyday, have no problem losing or gaining weight(omg how is this possible!!), dont take coq10, reservatol, k2, D of gosh forbid magnesium etc...dont wake up with a beating pulse and sweating anymore. i actually did close to opposite your recommendations....

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:42 PM

And oliva you might care to know neurosurgeons wrote the book on the pituitary and how it functions.......hilarious hpw little some of you experts really know.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:30 PM

This just made me laugh. Someone who believes a dogma who I called bullshit on it tactfully on my blog...funny. The pituitary gland is my domain. I treat this a lot. You do what you do and dont ask me for any further advice. Pot meet kettle.

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:14 AM

After I got slapped one time on an issue of credentialism, quilt said that his three degrees were worthless. Someone paid for all that education. Too bad it was wasted.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:23 AM

Taubes and Kruse in the same sentence? Put a knife through my heart why dontcha? I'd upvote the rest of what you said though.

7d0c3ea9bf8be00b93e6433d8f125ac3
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:52 AM

I agree Mallory. Particularly a neurosurgeon. Since when does performing back surgery also make you an endocrinologist and gynecologist?

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:18 AM

and i apologize if i am mad but anyone givind medical advice and dietary advice over the net in something as severe as amenorrhea and anorexia....should lose their medical license

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:16 AM

ehhhh i dunno lol, a lot of pharma drugs help but i never read about them b/c i wont ever be prescribed one...curcumin comes o mind, and yea green tea

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:11 AM

add one thing...the FACT that leptin goes down in fat people when they lose weight 100% disproves there is or was LR

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:11 AM

I'd be interested in this too. Green tea?

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:10 AM

Hey Mallory, what are your ideas on how to fix the dopamine issue?

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:06 AM

Happy birthday Mallory!

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:01 AM

mallory, i've been reading prozac not potatoes and alot of coverage of seretonin and beta-endorphins as it relates to sugar cravings happen there.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
20
3703 · November 02, 2011 at 6:06 AM

I like the positive sentiments that are expressed here. I agree with those who have said that no one is perfect because in all of Quilt's responses that I've been lucky to read or come across (he is almot as prolific as Travis Culp or Eva) he appears intent on not only helping but in clarifying complicated health topics. The negativity expressed I believe is not warranted.

RE Paul Jaminent, in Quilt's defense, I bet he expressed it incorrectly in that he meant Jimmy Moore reqested a writeup (for a response to Paul Jaminent). Just a guess as Jimmy requested this from many. He's a cowboy fur sure and IMHO a good guy. I'd trust my Dad's health to Dr.K and my Dada is a surgeon!

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a
0 · November 06, 2011 at 5:53 AM

I understand the need for cites/studies. But in medicine there is an understanding that NOT everything about the human body or patient is known or completely under control. That is where "experience" comes in, where formal research has not been laid out yet and we cannot explain why something works in essay form. This is my problem also with alot of fitness industry buffs, i.e. guys like Lyle McDonald, Alan Aragon etc who try to interpret raw studies too much and miss sight of the big picture. If the science never lies or confuses, why do they continue to advocate grains/fructose?

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 5:16 PM

Oh jeez ... I just read this: "I did not expect my email to go jimmys blog......" What?? Wasn't that the point? He's a blogger Jack!
"but i did not care that it did either because the science on igf1 and cancer is clear unless your blind" -- then why do you recommend eating so much friggin' protein?

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 11:42 AM

Quilt cont: Bottom line, you have NO backing for your Mg claim so you'll go off on this receptor or that enzyme and how we should take this or that supplement. As for rat studies? You say you read my "chaotic blog". Surely you've noticed the numerous studies in humans I've discussed there.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 11:39 AM

Quilt: As regards "people like carbsane think everything a doc does needs a cite ... We mesh science with the art of medicine and if youre not facile with the art of medicine you get a carbsane world where rat data trumps experience." YOU are the one who says you rely on science Jack. YOU are the one making claims based on your supposed extracurricular reading of the literature. When YOU say "XYZ always happens" your readers presume you got that from somewhere and that there's the science to back it. When I asked, you balked, were rude and eventually blocked my comments.

9e20abb05f3f6e3cc4bb107f8980aecd
0 · November 03, 2011 at 3:06 AM

Quilt, I apologize, you're right. Here's my apology: http://paleohacks.com/questions/74180/thoughts-on-dr-jack-kruse-aka-the-quilt/74515#74515.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:48 PM

And it was before i had a blog.....

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:47 PM

Paul i posted something on your wall about longevity and you asked me about it and then asked me if i would send it to you. I promise on both of my kids lives. It was under jack kruse on your facebook wall and youmeven commented that you found the ideas interesting. You may not even realize we are friends on facebook and i have followed you since your book was published. But i promise you we spoke about this in comments on faceboook. This was not done on a blog it was done on your wall

9e20abb05f3f6e3cc4bb107f8980aecd
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:43 PM

Quilt, I never asked you for anything for my blog. Nor have I asked anyone else who has his own blog. The only people I have ever asked for guest posts are people like Mario Renato Iwakura who leave very insightful comments on my blog, and who I think deserve more visibility for their ideas and their contributions. If you have something to say, you have forums on which to say it, and if I think it's something my readers should wish to read, I can point them to it on my Saturday Around the Web posts.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:43 PM

We also cant reach a tipping point unless we re sharing ideas on our blogs and in our comments. For me the comments there are often better than the posts because it is here where you see how a clinician tackles a problem...people like carbsane think everything a doc does needs a cite. This is why she is marginalized by many. We mesh science with the art of medicine and if youre not facile with the art of medicine you get a carbsane world where rat data trumps experience

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:45 PM

And for the record.....paul did ask me to do something on his blog and it was before i think i was blogging. He may not remember it but he can confirm it from looking back on his FB wall. I decided not too send anything by email after a long thought about it.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:43 PM

I did not expect my email to go jimmys blog......but i did not care that it did either because the science on igf1 and cancer is clear unless your blind

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:20 PM

Get a room. Jeez (yes I'm jealous Kamal)

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:51 AM

Ur better than any Kellogg's product... If you didn't have Audrey's avatar, I'd eat you *haaa!*

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:10 AM

Nutri-smart? Am I a cereal bar made by Kellogg's?? Okay, I'll go to bed now. But not before saying that I can't believe you have kids old enough to go to the pet store alone. You can't be a day over 30!

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:05 AM

KAMAL, I had to watch saved by the bell next to my kids... omg u r a BABBY but so nutri-smart and clever! u must take a cool pill every morning... dude u need ur beautificationSLEEP!! w a l k. a w a y. f r o m t h e i P a d . . . i know u can do it! haa. yeah i'm havin coffee waiting for mynkids to come back from the petstore.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:36 AM

You can never talk too much 80s! I'd say this thread is kind of like a mix between the Nickelodeon shows "Hey Dude" and "Fifteen", with a little bit of Saved By the Bell thrown in. Speaking of, I realized that you're probably in China and not up really late. Since I am, I'm going to be tired when I wake up in the morning and and the alarm gives out a warning; I don't think I'll ever make it on time. By the time I grab my books and I give myself a look I'm at the corner just in time to see the bus fly by!

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:28 AM

Do cowboys ride hogs? He looks to me like he's into Arlen Ness or Harleys...

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:27 AM

Thanks for the clarification...

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:26 AM

FUNNY! After I discovered ur upvoting process here been upvoting u too when ur released from Lr captivity (geez is this like high school OR WHAT?????! or that MTV realityshowow with behind the scene tears and stabbbing?? ok need to shut up of I'll be dating myself to the 80s HHAA)

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:12 AM

I instinctively vote up anything you say, Dr. BG. Very measured response. However, the Jaminet thread that mari posted is from a few months ago, quite a while before the Jimmy Moore starch post. And yes, Quilt may very well be a cowboy. Doesn't he live in the south? Or do cowboys live in the southwest? I need to relearn cowboy geography.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
19
10497 · November 02, 2011 at 5:42 AM

Some things to remember about the Quilt (and humans in general) ---

0) I have had my differences with The Quilt -- and have had to suspend him from PaleoHacks. But, generally speaking, his intent is to help people --- he is a net benefit for PaleoHacks.

1) No one is perfect.

2) We're all wrong to some degree.

[See my thoughts on this here: http://us1.campaign-archive2.com/?u=48c5aee421576df1d6f5c8e45&id=7740a2bd8f]

3) The Quilt would benefit from doing better marketing & better writing, and less emotion.

UPDATE: WITH MY EXCHANGE WITH THE QUILT BELOW IN THE COMMENTS, MAYBE I COMMENTED TOO SOON.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb
0 · November 07, 2011 at 6:15 PM

Comment to Eugenia's answer further up the this thread. http://paleohacks.com/questions/74180/thoughts-on-dr-jack-kruse-aka-the-quilt/74432#74432

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 07, 2011 at 6:08 PM

@Matthew - where do you get that from?

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb
0 · November 07, 2011 at 8:31 AM

@Patrik: I think Quilt may be just deliberately annoying you here. Quote:"I only lie to akd matthew mallory melissa patrik and shari cause it aggravates them. When i dont i use bad grammar and punctuation because they are tight asses."-The Quilt

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb
0 · November 07, 2011 at 8:31 AM

Patrik: I think Quilt may be just deliberately annoying you. Quote:"I only lie to akd matthew mallory melissa patrik and shari cause it aggravates them. When i dont i use bad grammar and punctuation because they are tight asses."-The Quilt

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 06, 2011 at 10:35 PM

Good job! Somebody here is finally taking moderation work seriously :) +1

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 06, 2011 at 10:33 PM

Good job! Somebody here is finally taking moderation seriously :)

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 06, 2011 at 10:21 PM

@maj - that is correct

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 06, 2011 at 10:18 PM

you really suspended me, lol !

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 06, 2011 at 10:16 PM

I am suspened, lol

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 06, 2011 at 9:37 AM

the ban hammer, lol... you didn't warn me before btw. I guess its hard to keep the track when you are aggressive toward so many folks...

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 06, 2011 at 9:35 AM

@Patrik: the ban hammer, lol... you didn't warn me before btw, as far I remember.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 03, 2011 at 6:11 PM

@maj -- watch your language or I will drop the ban hammer on you. I have warned you before.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 03, 2011 at 6:02 PM

Nice to see Jack Kronk cut through the Gordian Knot of all of this.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 4:04 PM

what has been said has been said. excellent. now we know where we all stand. quilty will continue to rock on. we will continue to hack his ideas with healthy skepticism and a watchful eye. patrik and the mods will run PH as they see fit. done and done.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 4:02 PM

hey folks look you are all bringing up good points. it's amazing how debate turns people on each other. hilarious too, that by tomorrow, in some other thread, ya'll will be agreeing with each other and complimenting each other again. let's go back to reality. patrik has an awesome site here with PH. nothing is perfect, but jeez. As Kamal said, stackexchange is fantastic, and way better than most systems. Also, PH is a great resource and it's biggest flaw is that humans are involved. This thread is kinda evidence of that. lol (tongue in cheek sarcasm there ;)

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 3:58 PM

can't we all just get along?

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 03, 2011 at 8:17 AM

@Patrik: Dude, you are overreacting. Stressed out? 2 tbsp fish oil in the morning and evening, with magnesium and cannabis. Then come back and we will talk :)

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 03, 2011 at 8:15 AM

Yes, such a love story we have here. Nice background Edward.

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703
0 · November 03, 2011 at 6:41 AM

http://youtu.be/hmGQ5SlazJA

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703
0 · November 03, 2011 at 6:39 AM

http://youtu.be/E2VCwBzGdPM

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 03, 2011 at 5:56 AM

@TheQuilt -- WTF are you blabbering on about with "And you better think about that long and hard cause its true. No one opinion is greater than any other poster even if you try to change the rules now......."????

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 03, 2011 at 5:55 AM

@TheQuilt -- I don't have any "lackeys" --- I do have amazing and selfless moderators who keep PaleoHacks awesome. And you're right, I do run & will continue to run PaleoHack as I see fit.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:07 AM

Your perception is not my reality. And you better think about that long and hard cause its true. No one opinion is greater than any other poster even if you try to change the rules now.......

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:06 AM

See Patrik this is where you are wrong.......there is no duty i have to you or anyone else. That perception is yours and the other lackies you have here. After I came here you made rule about MDs. Prior to that there were no rules. You had a problem with what I was doing. And you changed things to suit you. Remember you have told us its your ballfield and we have to play by your rules. Here on the net I am not your doctor or anyone elses. You are not paying me and I dont give you advice. I give ideas and thoughts without a doctor patient relationship. There is a big difference

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:10 PM

BTW I love the fact that in an answer on PaleoHacks, I actually defend The Quilt, and the Quilt bites the hand that defends him. Classic irony (you couldn't script this stuff). Doesn't reflect well on you Quilty.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:45 PM

@TheQuilt -- "There is no higher burden i carry because of who i am." is incorrect. You are a physician with moral & legal responsibilities different from most of us. You also have a polarizing style that affects PaleoHacks. Right now, it is a net benefit -- but if it goes net negative, I will protect the PaleoHacks community as I see fit.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:43 PM

@Quilt --- wow, you are so obstinate & emotionally sensitive it is ridiculous -- FOR THE RECORD: I THINK YOU HAVE SOME INTERESTING & POWERFUL IDEAS that a) you do a painfully poor job of communicating b) demand further investigation. As such I HAVE DEFENDED your presence on PaleoHacks >>>EVEN WHEN I THOUGHT YOU WERE WRONG<<< when everyone was calling for your head. Bottom line: YOU ARE YOUR OWN WORST ENEMY.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:26 PM

Patrik if i am such an ass why did you privately contact me for a hack? Seriously dude i have no issues with criticism. But you are not paying me for anything. Im sharing ideas. You can read them and move on. There is no higher burden i carry because of who i am. I have a choice to help who and when i want. I want to help jack k because ithink his case can help others. Personally if he does not want it.....cool by me. I dont carry his burden he does. You dont like my talk.....sorry. I post on a phone and an ipad when i have time. And i leave my cooments open to people who want it

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:23 PM

@Quilt -- FYI you are not a "heavy hitter" -- "heavy hitters" don't have to refer to themselves as such. Same goes for "people persons" etc etc

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:21 PM

@Maj -- what does this nonsense EVEN mean? "Thats just buisnis dude, as usual with managers" --- PaleoHacks is FREE SITE that you and a helluva lot of people use to ask & answer about Paleo diet.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:52 PM

Busted! I am the Quilt. But I don't know that I'm the Quilt, so it's like Fight Club.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:45 PM

AHA, you talk opposite things from 1 moment to another. You are just the same as Quilt :P

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:44 PM

@Kamal: *Maj...are you being sarcastic?* I thought you didn't lose your sarcasm sensors ? I may be wrong, but I think I remember you said few days before something like that :)

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:43 PM

@Kamal: Maj...are you being sarcastic? I thought you didn't lose your sarcasm sensors ? I may be wrong, but I think I remember you said few days before something like that :)

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:43 PM

@Kamal: *Maj...are you being sarcastic?* I thought you didn't lost your sarcasm sensors ? I may be wrong, but I think I remember you said few days before something like that :)

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:42 PM

@Kamal: *He started this ginormous website that answers over 9,000 questions about the paleo diet?* Thats just buisnis dude, as usual with managers.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:12 PM

Quilt-- on the other thread you said "Me, Brent, kevin and a few other big hitters know what our focus is". Who is Kevin? I know Brent is the AHS guy, but I don't know of Kevin. Is the focus to get doctors to change their practices to a more "wellness/holistic" type perspective?

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:09 PM

Maj...are you being sarcastic? Because I'm not sure if Paris Hilton might have a different connotation overseas.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:06 PM

There you go Patrik, problem solved, the easy way. No need for office ruining.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:06 PM

There you go Patrik, problem solved, the easy way. No need to damage the desk.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:05 PM

Quilt, please by this book and make Patrik happy: "Anybody Can Be Cool-- But Awesome Takes Practice" http://www.amazon.com/Anybody-Cool-Awesome-Practice-Devotionals/dp/1556610408

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:58 PM

@Kamal: I absolutely love Paris Hilton's best friends forever.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:57 PM

@TheQuilt -- what does this even mean: "It wont be with one of your businesses and docs working in unison. Im just glad there are others under our tent who get what some of us are going to try to fix."???

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:50 PM

How does Patrik not get what some of you are trying to fix? He started this ginormous website that answers over 9,000 questions about the paleo diet?

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:49 PM

@maj -- I don't understand your comments. Please clarify.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:49 PM

@TheQuilt -- I would LOVE to know how >>>I<<< have failed us. Please enlighten me.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:48 PM

Hold on, I seem to have lost my ability to detect sarcasm. Sorry maj.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:48 PM

[*face-palm] [*smashing my face into my desk] @TheQuilt -- whether or not you want to profit from your ideas is immaterial -- it doesn't matter how brilliant you are if you cannot communicate them appropriately. Robb Wolf & Mark Sisson understand intuitively -- you, for some reason, think you are immune to the vagaries of human emotion and therefore don't have to tune your message to the audience. This is a FAIL.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:48 PM

I absolutely love the paleohacks / stackexchange platform! It's so visually simple, but also involving (dare I say addicting?).

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:44 PM

Its better to accept freedom of thought, expression and different priorities, I think... You can always ignore.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:43 PM

Tesla didn't know how to communicate his ideas too. Yes, he FAILED, obviously :S. Until today, nobody understands shit from his equations.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:43 PM

@Pathrik: Dude, you also failed. U use forum designed for programmers for diet related things. FAIL ! That is reality! Use adequate tools for the job. If you don't understand that you have lot to learn. Why would I need CODE section on diet site FFS ? You had good idea tho...

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:39 PM

Im not doing this to market something patrik. I have told you that many times. Im out to do one thing.......and im going to do it with or without you. I think you have failed us with this thread but i am glad you left it up. I showed it to several of my progressive MD friends and it began a good discussion about how a paleo tipping point will occur. It wont be with one of your businesses and docs working in unison. Im just glad there are others under our tent who get what some of us are going to try to fix.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:33 PM

@majkinetor @tempomat -- see Jack Kronk's comment above this one. If the Quilt has great ideas but cannot communicate them, and in fact, alienates people --- he HAS FAILED. This is reality. If you don't understand how ideas spread, you have a lot to learn.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:10 PM

folks Patrik is not just talking about marketing in the sense of profiting monetarily (necessarily). I do beleive he was referring to marketing his ideas and himself. Dr K writes article after article on a website blog that is fully intended to help teach people of health and wellness and human nutrition from an incredibly advanced perpsective. Dr K represents the "brand" that he has built and "marketing" himself is definitely a part of the equation.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:19 PM

-1: Like I alrady said before, better marketing might be great for you in "500 startups" world. Other people have different priorities and differently express emotions.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:19 PM

Like I alrady said before, better marketing might be great for you in "500 startups" world. Other people have different priorities and differently express emotions.

D7b01bbfd0b91a12c4aea43fb20adf15
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:01 PM

Great points, but not sure about the marketing part. For some reason I associate better marketing with Dr. Mercola and I do not want Dr K to go that route. I really appreciate that he is not selling/pushing/marketing anything besides his own ego perhaps.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:34 AM

Yeah... DeVany is impressive. He is also a freq misunderstood intellect who is way ahead of their times. Even the quote unquote gurus don't go out of there way, risking critiques like the above to help other fellow compatriots... SAD. Shutting off blog comments is not the answer. Quilt doesn't do that which is more impressive to me which expresses a level of kindness and generosity unheard of compared with other MD blogger/'gurus'.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:19 AM

A couple paleohackers have volunteered to edit his blog. Might not be a terrible idea. With regards to hoss:age ratio, I'm not sure anyone could beat Art De Vany.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:09 AM

He should sell a couple bottles of those cellared wines and get an editor!! No need for fancy grooming because he loks hotter than 99% of docs his age (like Dr.Davis another surgeon preDM/diabetic)

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:54 AM

I agree with all these...ESPECIALLY the better writing part. It's not a trivial thing.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0
19
3946 · November 01, 2011 at 11:15 PM

I appreciate what he has to say because he makes me think outside the box and he makes me challenge the status quo, as well as my own thought process. I do not take anything anyone says on this forum as gospel or as applying to everyone in every situation, all the time; so he doesn't bother me in the least. I don't mind his faults, as I happen to have many of my own.

016de26fe61daf799662d3b7b2468324
0 · November 05, 2011 at 5:31 AM

+1 - I liked this answer the best.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:21 AM

Ha! Me too....had to add an extra period for those pesky counters.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:40 AM

As you can see, I survived my time out and am going again.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:35 PM

And I cannot upvote your comment, I am all out of juice for the next 5 hours...

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:32 PM

Thanks Loon, it's the thought that counts!

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:23 PM

@annie, I would upvote you if I had any votes left.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:39 PM

More anonymous down-votes for having an opinion that doesn't go along with the crowd. Should I go through and down-vote everyone I don't agree with? Grow up people.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:42 AM

Plus 13 Jeff. The SAD and other modern toxins put me in a litter box... AWESOME anaology Shari but I would strongly disagree. Quilt's thoughts and art in translating the biochem is what helps me (and many others sick in the cr*pload) to stay out.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:41 AM

+1 Jeff, there are many people who are not in a litter box

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:55 PM

Amen, amen.......

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:34 PM

well I think the good results reported and recent explanations of the leptin reset don't leave people in a litter box.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:34 PM

Shari-I like that he makes me think and I appreciate his intelligence, and the time he takes to share it. There are sooo many "facts" out there, especially on this board, that completely contradict each other. So I do not fault him for his ideas and possible errors. I take his ideas and then research and think for myself. Just like with anyone else on this board.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:30 PM

But shouldn't the status quo be challenged with facts????? Thinking outside the box is great as long as it doesn't put you smack dab in the middle of a...litter box.

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661
0 · November 01, 2011 at 11:22 PM

amen...........

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
18
78417 · November 02, 2011 at 1:15 PM

I can't even read all this crap.

Some people seriously have to work on their understanding of life, universe and everything else. The fact that most points got the Nutritionist who talks about the "grammar issues" puts this entire thread on the pre-kindergarten level.

Who cares anyway, Quilt is not here to kill you or torture you or play Megamind but to share his insights and probably to learn about new things himself. Does he makes mistakes and use unchecked information ? Sure, who doesn't. Does he self promote ? Sure, who doesn't. I can compile this kind of BS for any single blogger out there.

The good thing about the internet is that everything is accessible. You don't trust the dude ? Go check it out, if you know how to search.

World would be a much better place if everybody was talking truth and nothing but the truth, right ? Meh...

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a
0 · November 06, 2011 at 7:16 AM

GREAT POST (and show of common sense)

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 03, 2011 at 8:06 AM

@Quilt: *Maj......you still think open source is correct choice for me?* Not for you, for everybody - we as society need to lean toward non-copyright, open information world. You can find ways to contribute even now: http://www.ted.com/talks/jay_bradner_open_source_cancer_research.html http://www.xconomy.com/national/2011/04/11/open-source-biology-deserves-a-shot/ http://hypothes.is/

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 03, 2011 at 8:04 AM

@Quilt:*Maj......you still think open source is correct choice for me?* Not for you, for everybody - we as society need to lean toward non-copyright, open information world. You can find ways to contribute even now: http://www.xconomy.com/national/2011/04/11/open-source-biology-deserves-a-shot/ http://www.ted.com/talks/jay_bradner_open_source_cancer_research.html

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 03, 2011 at 8:02 AM

@Travis: I am not sure I follow you, what is the point ? That carbs are not important regarding vitamin C, that C should be taken no matter your carb input or that C goes better with some specific carb setup ? As far as I know, hi carb doesn't play nice with C (i.e. http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/2005/pdf/2005-v20n03-p179.pdf). Non glucose sodium dependent vitamin C transporters (SVCT) may change that, but I even remember reading that glucose may block SVST via unknown mechanics but I need more research into it.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:38 PM

Maj......you still think open source is correct choice for me?

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:47 PM

Maj: If you get a free moment at some point, do you think you could write up a topic about how people shouldn't be choosing whether to be taking vitamin C based on their carb intake. It seems to be a prevalent paleo meme. I was going to put something together, but I realize that you're far more qualified.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:55 PM

LOL. Megamind I say.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:49 PM

That would be some Kaiser Soze shit there!

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:23 PM

Mhm.... are we sure **meri** isn't working for **Quilt**. Negative publicity is the best self-promotion :D

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:14 PM

Don't worry Kamal any stress this is causing you is probably having a hormetic effect on your reading comprehension. :P

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:06 PM

@Kamal: I am relaxed as ever. Don't let a little sarcasm make you think otherwise. And don't call me un-dude. I didn't stop smoking yet. :P

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:01 PM

hey maj. i don't have a blog. water getting heavy yet?

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:00 PM

Okay, everyone relax. You're being very un-dude. Maybe you can agree to disagree?

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:53 PM

Your grammar sux bustard. Please stop posting here until you learn how to write. We don't want to discredit this fine community.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:53 PM

more like sane people cutting off the fringes or the properly attached taking care of loose screws.

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:52 PM

haha, the first things cults do, cut off loose ends.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:50 PM

Your grammar sux bustard. Please stop posting here until you learn how to do write. We don't want to discredit this fine community.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:49 PM

Your grammar sux. Please stop writing until you learn how to do so. We don't want to discredit this fine community.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:49 PM

Your grammar sux. Please stop writing until you learn to write. We don't want to discredit this fine community.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:48 PM

I wont read your comment. Your grammar sux. Learn to write then come back in order not to discredit this fine community.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:38 PM

the problem is that this paleo thing or whatever you call it is so young that we must police ourselves of those that would discredit the movement. being a purveyor of unchecked info with a hard-on for self-promotion is a dangerous combinations, no? many people come to paleo as a last resort after they feel- many times rightly so- that mainstream medicine and nutrition has failed them. the last person i want them to run into is this guy. mark sisson, robb wolf, kgh, chris kresser? i'm all ok for a person just getting into this to read any of those people. just not this guy. please not this guy.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:35 PM

@Kamal: I guess you rewound the beginning of the movie :)

B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:26 PM

+1 "Some people seriously have to work on their understanding of life, universe and everything else." I think we were separated at birth :)

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:26 PM

Not to nitpick...but are you using "Megamind" in the right context? In the animated movie, Megamind is actually quite noble. So Quilt may very well WANT to play Megamind :)

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247
17
37177 · November 01, 2011 at 10:56 PM

I'll stick with my original answer to yesterday's thread, namely that I read a wide variety of websites and other publications then ponder the information to develop and focus my own thoughts. I'm not close enough to any of these people to make absolute judgments and I am pretty sure they're all mixtures of correct and accidentally incorrect statements in their work and their beliefs. I do get suspicious of anyone who dismisses counter evidence rather than re-working/thinking his/her previous pronouncements.

26b0f1261d1a0d916825bd0deeb96a21
16
5808 · January 22, 2012 at 12:27 AM

Oh my God. I left MDA because Dr. Kruse spends all day cultivating a veritable army of defenders of the "Quilt." How hard is it, Kruse, to respond to questions in a clear, concise manner? You aren't Rumplestiltskin, and no one is going to spin gold out of your pile of plagarism and shady psuedo-science. You are single-handedly driving rational people back into the bosom of Hostess and Stovetop Stuffing.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · February 03, 2012 at 9:11 PM

Bea -- your new avatar is a million riots...

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · February 03, 2012 at 9:09 PM

what are L a bored sitcom writer with primal smarts and leanings?

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · February 03, 2012 at 9:09 PM

clitoris = 'DWARF STAR PENIS'. i have not laughed so hard on this forum... 10,000 upvotes. A very warm welxome to Paleohacks to you!!

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · January 22, 2012 at 3:14 AM

DARN I pressed the wrong button. I'll try to send you a request - or you can try again!

26b0f1261d1a0d916825bd0deeb96a21
0 · January 22, 2012 at 3:05 AM

Just requested you as a friend! I'm the redhead, of course!

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · January 22, 2012 at 3:01 AM

Get outta my dreams and into my facebook group! (http://www.facebook.com/meredith.harbouryetter) Shhh are you on facebook (sometimes we gossip and cuss in this little group I have going).

26b0f1261d1a0d916825bd0deeb96a21
0 · January 22, 2012 at 2:44 AM

@Meredith, yeah the insanely scientific and N=1 thing about the "Scrotum Crazies," is that it can certainly, definitely, sort of be avoided by daily immersion in what I term, "Vulva Rainbow Baths." Now, mind you, not everyone has the "Crazies," only about 92.7% of the global population has the problem (I know most are chicks, but stay with me). You see, and this is a teaser here, most people don't realize that the clitoris is actually a dwarf-star penis! The ketones in the paleo vulva work to fully develop the dwarfed organ. I rec 60g of diluted badger brains/ostrich thyroid upon waking.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · January 22, 2012 at 2:30 AM

I get you girl. I mean lawd oh mercy! THIS SHIT has to be regulates.SCROTUM CRAZIES - http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DSTdIDrBBioE%26NR%3D1%26feature%3Dendscreen&h=wAQEu-Hg-AQEiHdw2AXqm5JnbCNBjE0arI0cj1SFF-FWiJA

26b0f1261d1a0d916825bd0deeb96a21
0 · January 22, 2012 at 2:23 AM

@ Meredith, ha!!! This is why I will regulate the banana-hammocks to three days per week, plus extra special sexy-times! I don't want my husband to get the "scrotum-crazies," which is a medical term that I completely stand behind and have no credible sources for. "Scrotum- Crazies." That's it. I will explain in my book.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · January 22, 2012 at 2:12 AM

Lyndsay - Hi, I am a straight married lady who happens to "like" your style. For the record, though, Quilty Quilt KRUZE has only copped to speedos while stripping down in a department store to everyone's "AMAZEMENT" while ordering a lowly sales clerk to "clean up" his old clothes to the song "Crazy". I suggest you sit down to a BIG mug of megalomania tea to rethink your take on super small and tight undies for men! – http://jackkruse.com/the-leptin-rx-faqs/

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · January 22, 2012 at 2:11 AM

Lyndsay - Hi, I am a straight married lady who happens to "like" your style. For the record, though, Quilty Quilt KRUZE has only copped to speedos while stripping down in a department store to everyone's "AMAZEMENT" while ordering a lowly sales clerk to "clean up" his old clothes to the song "Crazy". I suggest you sit down to a BIG mug of megalomania tea to rethink your take on super small and tight undies for men!

26b0f1261d1a0d916825bd0deeb96a21
0 · January 22, 2012 at 1:23 AM

Thanks, Nance, I insist that my husband wear banana-hammocks at least three times a week. I feel it lends a great deal of primal sophistication, even if he is just sporting them pantless during a rigorous session of "Zelda." I can overlook this and pretend that he's a gent, reading his nightly Dickens by our imaginary, bricked over, fireplace.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247
0 · January 22, 2012 at 1:16 AM

@Lyndsay, +1 for including Speedo in your comment.

26b0f1261d1a0d916825bd0deeb96a21
0 · January 22, 2012 at 1:15 AM

Oh, wait, two things, um... well, he wears Speedos, which must mean that he has a great deal of European-brand of confidence!

26b0f1261d1a0d916825bd0deeb96a21
0 · January 22, 2012 at 1:11 AM

Um, okay, well let me see... hmmm... he lives in Nashville, which is a great music capitol. One of my favorite places to visit!

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247
0 · January 22, 2012 at 1:09 AM

@Kamal, no no the best part was the "bosom of Hostess" where I personally spent many years. :-))

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · January 22, 2012 at 1:02 AM

Yeah, now you have to say two good things about Dr. Kruse :) That Rumplestiltskin bit was pretty creative though, I must say.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · January 22, 2012 at 12:58 AM

Lyndsay, we appreciate your participation here, however, it's not generally a good start for your first comment to have a somewhat negative vibe to it. How about a more benevolent contribution to the site before dropping bombs?

26b0f1261d1a0d916825bd0deeb96a21
0 · January 22, 2012 at 12:45 AM

Actually, he attacks many people personally. Yes, I have a "style" that involves communication beyond a kindergarten level. Have fun in the army.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247
0 · January 22, 2012 at 12:42 AM

@Lyndsay, you can say you disagree and you can criticise grammar and presentation--although I think the message is more important myself. You are free to post opposing studies and opinions. In my opinion, the "style" of your answer above is more likely to drive people away than anything Dr Jack says or does. He doesn't attack people personally, he just expresses opinions about their questions. Your only interest here was to attack him as a person. Minus one.

273f287a84cef808c0aeb1cc291a5636
16
168 · December 29, 2011 at 3:53 AM

Has anyone noticed that some of the information/posts written by Jack Kruse / Quilt appear to be taken directly from published, copyright protected sources? Is there any explanation other than the obvious?

from Carl Sagan and Ann Druyan

"...the ease with which it can be sweet-talked, overwhelmed, or subverted by our other hardwired propensities. These things sometimes themselves are disguised as the cool light of reason and that is a worrisome bias that might be a pitfall if we are not careful". --Quilt

"...the ease with which it can be sweet-talked, overwhelmed, or subverted by other hardwired propensities -- sometimes themselves disguised as the cool light of reason -- is worrisome." --Sagan and Druyan

from Michelle Skye, author of Goddess Alive!

"I am going to improve everything about me I can. Today I want to become the shaft of lightning or the glowing candle that illuminates my world. Be fast, furious, bold, and strong. Arrive quickly and depart just as fast, leaving behind a brighter mind or soul or heart in all I may touch." --Jack Kruse

"Brigid is the force behind grand ideas and simple comforts. She is direct, quick, enlightening, and enlivening. She is the shaft of lightning or the glowing candle that illuminates our world. Fast, furious, bold, and strong, she arrives quickly and departs just as fast, leaving behind a brighter mind or soul or heart. Brigid's gifts lie not in what she brings to you, but rather in casting light on what you can bring to the world." --Michelle Skye (Author of Goddess Alive!)

from Adlin Sinclair

"...the embodiment of the information we choose to accept and act upon. To change our circumstances we need to change our thinking and subsequent actions." --Quilt

"...the embodiment of the information you choose to accept and act upon. To change your circumstances you need to change your thinking and subsequent actions.??? --Adlin Sinclair

from Anatole France

"All changes, even the most longed for, have their own melancholy of sorts (...) what we leave behind us is a part of being.......but we must die that part of life before we can enter into another realm." --Quilt

"All changes, even the most longed for have their melancholy (...) what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves. We must die to one life before we can enter another." --Anatole France

from Steve Jobs

"Remembering that we are going to eventually die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you really have something to lose in life." --Quilt

"Remembering that we are going to die is the only way I've found to escape the illusion of actually having something to lose." --Steve Jobs

from Herbert Henry Asquith

"Youth would be an ideal state if it came a little later in life." --Quilt

"Youth would be an ideal state if it came a little later in life." --Herbert Henry Asquith

from Chuck Palahniuk

"What we call chaos today is just patterns we haven't recognized yet." --Quilt

"What we call chaos is just patterns we haven't recognized yet.??? --Chuck Palahniuk

from Robin Sharma

"Chase beauty......but adore mastery." --Quilt

"Chase beauty. Adore mastery." --Robin Sharma

from Alan C. Kay

"The best way for you to predict your future is to invent it." --Quilt

"...the best way to predict the future is to invent it." --Alan C. Kay

from Marc and Angel Hack Life

"...chance is a gift, so act on chance when given the opportunity." --Dr. Kruse 12 Wishes

"Chance is a gift, so act on chance when given the opportunity." --Marc and Angel Hack Life, 26 Life Lessons

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8
0 · March 28, 2012 at 11:55 PM

This is funny but isn't it much like reciting proverbs? These are "quotable quotes" by famous people but there isn't actually plagirizable value in them. So he's perusing Bartlett's Book of Quotations. Did he pass them as his own, spontaneous quote? I don't think so. Even if he did, it's like saying, "Nothing gold can last."

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · December 29, 2011 at 8:48 PM

How much time did you spend googling the Quilt's prose? How many were actually his own ? Why do you really care? Spend more time cooking! :)

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a
0 · December 29, 2011 at 8:53 AM

I mean, some of these are verbatim!

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a
0 · December 29, 2011 at 8:52 AM

Oh my! Fair enough everybody is influenced by others work but this is just plagiarism! I would be worried about a law suit if it were me.

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a
0 · December 29, 2011 at 8:51 AM

Oh my! There's being infulenced by others work and just plain plagiarism! Bit creepy.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63
0 · December 29, 2011 at 6:15 AM

He should plagiarize more, because whenever he tries to talk about something original (leptin) he's always wrong.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195
0 · December 29, 2011 at 4:39 AM

"SIN"? "Army"? .....

499f188c87c6980742b9ba98caa6f563
0 · December 29, 2011 at 4:26 AM

Sounds like Quilt is a very well-read fellow! But it's a fine line between fruitful allusions and pedantically footnoting every reference. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone! An army travels on its stomach!

89e238284ccb95b439edcff9e123671e
16
10294 · November 02, 2011 at 10:15 AM

(Although the question and most of the answers/comments are very respectable and polite, I hope this internet conversation and critique doesn't suffer from the lack of personal contact and non-verbal communication! This would be a much more interesting and fun thread if it was happening with all of us, including Dr. K, around a big fire, eating some meat on a stick, on a cool starlit night in august...)

Only a very subjective comment, and intellectually not very substantual:

Dr. K made paleo difficult! (edit: for me)

All the testing and supplements.

Again, he could be totally right, but paleo used to be easy.

By the way, we still use the easy paleo approach at home...

Cheers,

Pieter

89e238284ccb95b439edcff9e123671e
0 · November 03, 2011 at 6:58 AM

Dr.K, I understand your comment and I should (and will) add to my 'answer' that i meant difficult for ME. I was doing good, without thinking too much about what I ate. And then I worried again about supplements and so.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:35 PM

I made paleo difficult? Are some of you blind? You seem to believe that eating paleo alone is a perfect cure......go to mda, robbs site arts site.....infact any site. There are people who do shitty with paleo 1.0 and 2.0. My focus is on them......not the 68% who fall into what most other bloggers are writting for. I write for the people who are getting no answers and ready to bail on paleo.I pull them back. Paleo is not easy for some and that bias on this very board is very offensive to some people. I like those people because they seek change.if you eat paleo and r well im not ur guy

89e238284ccb95b439edcff9e123671e
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:54 PM

Joe, although I understand your point, my take on things is like this quote: “As a people, we have become obsessed with Health. There is something fundamentally, radically unhealthy about all this. We do not seem to be seeking more exuberance in living as much as staving off failure, putting off dying. We have lost all confidence in the human body.” Lewis Thomas, in The Medusa and the Snail (1979). I like being very healthy, but I don't really care about hacking every little part of my life. And I understand it is a totally different game for people with specific health problems.

A2fe5bbd09c7804fd321e9e9a9f9d199
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:42 PM

"Dr. K made paleo difficult!" Well, hasn't he been pretty clear that his field is measurably optimal health, longevity, anti-aging etc? Of which he sees paleo as we know it as key but not the only component. I definitely appreciate heavy emphasis on smart testing and situation-contexted supps, and knowing the why's, in order to get a better compass and handle on what's going on with our health beyond the most obvious outward signs or vaguely feeling better.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:31 PM

I did't talk about science too, but about effort. @Rex: yes, I do think, I never mentioned stupid tho.

89e238284ccb95b439edcff9e123671e
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:52 PM

@majkinetor: To make sure you understand me correct: with simple I mean simple principles to use, not that the science, biochemics, physiology, ... is easy or simple. I like simple like Mark Sisson, Robb Wolf, Kurt Harris, ... Again, I could be wrong, but it seems like the above have good results.

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:13 PM

@majkinetor: You're oversimplifying. Do you honestly think people here are stupid and lazy? Most of us have worked quite hard to understand what it is that we're doing.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 2:09 PM

Thats the problem D, people don't like it difficult. They like it in a way "loose 25 kg in 12 days" or "learn c++ in 24 hours".

Thumbnail avatar
0 · November 02, 2011 at 12:12 PM

Many people are impelled to challenge conventional wisdom, but forget that paleos were merely humans trying to survive. I blundered in with a belief in the value of hunt-and-gather and meat eating as the most defensible core paleo values. I'm still bewildered by the amount of esoterica posted up here. Leptin theories among many others

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 11:19 AM

i think you put your finger on what made me skeptical, pieter. all of a sudden, me taking a very conservative, common sense approach to health wasn't enough. i needed resveratrol? pshaw. i like my version better.

D7b01bbfd0b91a12c4aea43fb20adf15
16
569 · November 02, 2011 at 1:26 AM

I am a new member of this community and English is not my native language so take my opinion for what its worth. I have not followed any of the mentioned "drama" and do not take any sides.
I am sure Dr.K gets a lot of stuff wrong and his attitude and ego seem to be bigger than most, however, he still is a very valuable, prolific and UNIQUE part of this community. He seems to be a cross between several communities - Paleo, Doctors, Quantified Self. There are other Paleo MDs, so what makes him really unique and valuable is the Quantified aspect of his persona. The Quilt is a true Paleo Quant Doctor. He really looks for context. He seems to have access to a lot of lab tests data ,both personal and patients, which allows him to quantify conditions, improvements as well as observe patterns through many lab results. He does not simply read papers, studies, and journals.
At the end of the day, he is the best and most prolific Paleo medical resource for lab testing. He trials and refines his ideas on his patients and himself through numerous lab tests. Thus, while some of his theories and presentations might have flaws, he still provides a very valuable information and hands on experience for free. I would appreciate him for his strengths and unique perspective, while acknowledging his weaknesses.

EDIT:

I seem to not have expressed myself properly and to have appeared as some Quilt die hard fan boy. I couldn't care less about most of Quilt's not well thought out, badly presented, poorly sourced ideas and hypotheses. I do not follow his protocols. However, I have GREAT respect for this guy because of his quantified approach and clinical experimentation. He has access to vast medical resources and most importantly is ACTIVELY using them to improve his own and the public knowledge and understanding of concepts. I can only hope that one day I might encounter a similar doctor in my personal medical journeys and interactions with medical professionals. If this thread results in less or no output from him, this would be a great loss not only for the Paleo community.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:37 PM

Plus one to you and grace

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 8:37 PM

This was kind......thank u!

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:08 PM

Yes, it says 4 numbers.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f
0 · November 02, 2011 at 11:46 AM

Does IP say anything, really?

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:18 AM

Plus 10+ tempomat

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:41 AM

not Quilty y'all. Very different IP.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:34 AM

+1 for not taking sides.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:31 AM

^^He's definitely not quilt. I can understand this. Also................. no ellipses

Da3d4a6835c0f5256b2ef829b3ba3393
0 · November 02, 2011 at 1:28 AM

"At the end of the day, he is the best and most prolific Paleo medical resource..." Hmmmmmm..... you are certainly entitled to your opinion, Quil.... oops, I mean tempomat.

Da3d4a6835c0f5256b2ef829b3ba3393
15
6418 · November 03, 2011 at 12:52 AM

Amazing thread.

The Quilt's replies take it to the next level. Those replies and the idea that the man sits around here at paleohacks all day speak volumes. To learn that he has been banned from here before and yet he's back and so into this place is amazing.

Anyway, I am indeed happy for everyone who has benefitted from his advice. That's really what matters most.

--- EDITED ---

Is this really him?

thoughts-on-dr.-jack-kruse?-(aka-the-quilt)

thoughts-on-dr.-jack-kruse?-(aka-the-quilt)

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f
0 · May 19, 2012 at 7:31 AM

I though Kruse would use orange glasses. After all, he promotes them on his website.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc
0 · May 18, 2012 at 3:45 AM

Yes that's him.

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596
0 · May 18, 2012 at 12:20 AM

Somebody said these pictures were among his personal photos on facebook.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:30 AM

I don't think anything would keep The Quilt away :)

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad
15
56596 · November 02, 2011 at 2:24 PM

The problem is that Dr. Kruse is a doctor, but he posts a lot of comments and stuff that are less than rigorous. I think when you have that credential burden, you have to be careful what you say. I recommended his blog to my roommates in NYC who were having a lot of trouble with paleo and I think they really benefitted from his Leptin RX, particularly the high protein breakfast. I guess my beef with him is he is so focused on a certain type of sick person that he, like many other low-carb doctors, thinks his prescriptions (like keto) are optimal for everyone and his view of human evolution is shaped by this. There is the second type of sick person, of which there are many on PH, which is the tend to be-underweight malnourished often kind of high-strung sort. That's what I am, and that's what a lot of other people I know are. Keto can help some of these people, but it can make others worse.

Edit: Quilt seems to think I have it in for him. Why would I recommend the Leptin RX to certain people (people I CARE about) then?? I think the Leptin RX can help a lot of people. It is mainly his random comments on the internet I have argued about, particularly on the safe starch debate and on evolutionary biology.

870fdea50f2a9f1cd2890c8e22549300
0 · May 19, 2012 at 12:59 PM

"I can alter people with my mind." Holy cow.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5
0 · November 03, 2011 at 11:59 AM

@Melissa, perhaps he's not as hard assed and thick skinned as he pretends to be.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:35 AM

You keep bringing it back to one comment I made, which is definitely not the topic at hand right now. I closed PH questions (asked by OTHER people) that asked about your appearance because I learned my lesson.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:11 AM

Well maybe you should ask about the randomness instead of putting words in my mouth. It appears you are expert at that and commenting on peoples skin color when you have no context of what you speak.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:54 AM

I am NOT against the Leptin Rx. I have recommended it to many people. It is your random comments on the internet that often are very questionable, not your holistic philosophy.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 03, 2011 at 12:47 AM

Again my comments there were not given in proper context so again your perception bias was allowed to color your responses. It is clear to me and to others where that is as well. Macros have never matter to me.......and for you to say so means you have no idea of what I really think. The Leptin Rx is based upon circadian cycles. It does not focus on macros and never has. If you asked you might have known that without making a guess. I have been very clear in saying macros for the most part are worthless. You and some others dont feel that way. Im fine with different views.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad
0 · November 02, 2011 at 11:26 PM

they were very disappointing since before the Rosedale debacle it seemed you were being more reasonable about macros.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad
0 · November 02, 2011 at 11:24 PM

Your comments on the safe starch debate suggest otherwise.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 11:04 PM

I also dont advocate a one type of diet for anyone.....that is again your perception. Since i deal with disease constantly this is why your perception is altered. You never asked me once precisely what i have done since i repaired my own hypothalamus you just guessed. You have been quite guilty on this count and your red skin comment was a pretty big tell to me about your own biases. Im glad some one texted me that. I have been clear that i look to find out how an epigenetic switch is set with testing. Then i adjust the diet. You dont know how i do it so you mock it. That is what i see.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 11:00 PM

Point one....your perception of what i am is yours. Not mine. Im no low carb doctor. I use a large armentarium to get to optimal. Medicine is not rigorous. If it was no one would be on a statin or taking a bunch of meds that work 50% of the time. Medicine is an art and science in harmony. Your boyfriend signed up for rigorous as a phd candidate. I can alter people with my mind and my clinical skills. You and many others here fall prey to thinking research papers are a lot better resources than clinical expertise. On this we completely disagree.

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 10:51 PM

@majkinetor: I'm not offering medical advice. There's a difference.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad
0 · November 02, 2011 at 9:14 PM

I still do some things under a pseudonym. I use a pen-name for all my fiction because it often contains elements of real life ;)

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:24 PM

... and I want my paycheck NOW!

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:24 PM

@Chickenosaurus Res: He is offering opinion. If what you say is true, then we all come here to work ...

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:23 PM

*Oh majikinetor you are so sadly mistaken* : Should I comment this epic observation ?

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:22 PM

Maybe he doesn't want to completely disassociate himself from himself Melissa ?

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:00 PM

Oh majikinetor you are so sadly mistaken.

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:58 PM

If he's offering medical advice, then he has come here to work in my opinion.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:15 PM

If he really wanted to disassociate himself from his work work, then he is free to create a completely anonymous identity here. I posted for a long time on LC and paleo forums as pseudonym because of my past work.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:09 PM

*but he posts a lot of comments and stuff that are less than rigorous** - Thats because he doesn't come here to work Melissa. Funny how that escapes you.

072fd69647b0e765bb4b11532569f16d
14
3717 · November 02, 2011 at 2:27 AM

Like others, I appreciate The Quilt for his willingness to post. His cryptic answers are more than annoying, and your citations to intentional misrepresentations definitely bring his credibility into question. As for his ideas, I would suggest n=1 like most other information we read about the Paleo diet. If you think a Quilt suggestion sounds legitimate enough, give it a try and see if it works for you.

As an aside, I think this is the best PH post I have read. Thank you for taking the time.

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a
0 · November 06, 2011 at 7:19 AM

im new to paleohacks but i have to say, majkinetor is the TRUTH. too much hate towards someone who has contributed a ton. in fact i found PH thru Dr. K's blog. :D

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 03, 2011 at 8:10 AM

@Kamal: I never heard about elderberry before tbh :) Feel free to ask me anything about it, you can find me on G+

072fd69647b0e765bb4b11532569f16d
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:09 AM

And I find it more than ironic that you make your statement about standing behind your comments while supporting a person who posts the most cryptic and unintelligible comments on PH.

072fd69647b0e765bb4b11532569f16d
0 · November 03, 2011 at 2:06 AM

@maji, again, feel free to disagree. Don't know what it is to "fish cats," and I am certainly no saint. However, I don't make boolshit up and post it on blogs. That's for gosh damn sure.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 03, 2011 at 1:35 AM

I'm not a bad student! I already had most of those things. But I only had vitamin C in tablet form, so I had to get powder. I did have a question for you though...doesn't elderberry (or something like that) have a positive effect on colds, as evidenced by a teeny bit of trial evidence? Were there things you didn't include on your list for certain reasons?

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:53 PM

@Kamal: nice....what about other 95 things? Zinc, ehinacea, Q10... don't be bad student.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:48 PM

@maj: I'm waiting until I need the Rambo protocol to try it out. I've got the ascorbic acid powder locked and loaded.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:16 PM

@Tom R: -1 is harsh ? At least I stand behind my -1 and always publicly announce it. Anyway, like I said, I can compile list of boolshits for anybody. If I dig deep enough, its probable that I will find something is wrong with you, for instance that you fish cats in your spare time.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:14 PM

@Tom R: -1 is harsh ? At least I stand behind my -1 and always publicly announce it. Anyway, like I said, I can compile list of boolshits for anybody. If you dig deep enough, I am probably gonna find that you fish cats in your spare time.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 7:11 PM

@Kamal: O yeah ? Dr Rambo protocol ? How it went ? It has 17 citations. (not kidding).

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:47 PM

Maj, im rather enjoying this between surgeries. We are talking about it in surgery this afternoon. We needed some levity with the devastation we are dealing with today

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 6:25 PM

@maj- The original post was quite simple. The poster listed things that Quilt said on paleohacks that do not appear to be true. Like you (or Loon) said before, we could theoretically do this for anyone. If you post enough, maybe I'll start a "Thoughts on majkinetor (aka maj)?" thread :) Although I don't really find anything egregiously wrong from what you write. I've actually pondered trying your common cold routine. But where are the citations? (just kidding!)

072fd69647b0e765bb4b11532569f16d
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:39 PM

@maji, In my opinion, this is the best post. -1 seems harsh, but please do as you feel necessary. To me (and I am no expert), Quilt is a akin to being a "public figure" on this site considering his reputation and number of posts. As in the world of politics, pop culture, etc., when one is a public figure, he/she opens him/herself up to scrutiny. I don't see that mari disrespected Quilt in any fashion. She just put forth a well-researched summary and asked a legitimate question.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 5:29 PM

@Kamal: The community is recognized by how it treats its loyal members. In that manner, what this community does now is nothing short of epic fail. 90% of the remarks here deal with mans character.

D7b01bbfd0b91a12c4aea43fb20adf15
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:42 PM

It will be much more productive to intelligently question and criticize specific Quilt ideas or blog posts in separate threads, instead of attacking all his contributions based on his general persona. This whole thread feels like too much drama towards a very active member of the community. In no way do I defend his ideas or persona, but this whole thread does not seem appropriate to me. Every major Paleo blogger has flaws and faulty ideas or statements. However, they should be treated with some level of respect due to their contributions.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
0 · November 02, 2011 at 4:10 PM

That doesn't add up, my dear majkinetor. The fact that a guru/blogger type person posts on paleohacks does not make that person less prone to criticism than Dr. Oz or Dr. Peat. What it does do is make the topic much more explosive. See this thread for a real-time example!

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
0 · November 02, 2011 at 3:06 PM

Yes, Dr. Oz and Ornish contribute to this forum all the time. I see your point :S