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What is Jack Kruse (aka The Quilt) right about?

by (8979)
Updated about 4 hours ago
Created November 02, 2011 at 4:13 PM

Paleo2.0 brought this up as a comment in another question. Is everything that Dr. Kruse has to say about leptin wrong? What has Dr. Kruse said that is correct? Citations would be helpful for many reading here.

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345 · January 01, 2012 at 11:22 PM

I never saw this quote but I think that it is prophetic. As would anyone who is intimately familiar with the astonishing positive attributes of this spice.

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8979 · November 13, 2011 at 7:16 PM

then again, some people can't afford to buy a vowel

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8979 · November 13, 2011 at 7:16 PM

I am certain that Quilty doesn't get his K2 from natto!

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17103 · November 12, 2011 at 11:23 PM

I've never picked up on "ego" coming from him. Bashing conventional "wisdom" when it deserves it, yes, but that's because it deserves it. He's a Doctor for Grok's sake, be thankful he's got the time to waste on us instead his paying patients. He may not know everything, he might not spell everything properly, but having him around to enlighten us is certainly well worth putting up with a bunch of quirks - something all of us have.

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1074 · November 11, 2011 at 8:51 PM

the most important thing to possess today is to be able to sift through the over-information and make a rational/correct decision. takes intelligence and maturity. i guess this is why it seems most ppl at Paleo hacks are older, middle age and onwards.

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1074 · November 11, 2011 at 8:49 PM

besides all they do is count calories via an "IF calculator" that partitions macros and calories based on whether you "work out" that day or not. it's elite bro-science, thats the most accurate label.

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1074 · November 11, 2011 at 8:48 PM

LOL Martin Berkhan...he's a joke and a weightlifter turned wannabe brain. half the people on that site don't need him, IF just keeps them lean and fit which they already are. the other half are the fat/obese people who need an overhaul but his fasting only starves and worsens the leptin resistant, so they leave his site. So it would seem his followers are all success stories. its BS

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1074 · November 11, 2011 at 8:45 PM

Been a Quilt fan.

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8979 · November 10, 2011 at 4:53 PM

No, Mallory, Martin Berkhan hasn't debunked it. He has found out what has worked for him, and so he has told others about it. His plan is a disaster for many who now are following the leptin reset successfully.

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8979 · November 10, 2011 at 6:02 AM

...nothing more scientific than voting...

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8979 · November 10, 2011 at 6:01 AM

Wow, minus 56, a couple of days to go, and I'm just a coverlet. Quilt, you are infamous!

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3703 · November 10, 2011 at 4:11 AM

Nice Aravind. And just think a lot of those epic posts were first responses to hackers here! What would Kruse be without PH, it's like the chicken - n - the egg *haaa!*? And vice versa, we co-evolve, like life.

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3703 · November 10, 2011 at 3:53 AM

haaa! AH! I think my favorite Quilt-ism is on natto and how it is like a horse's *ss and since it is good for longevity.... he does *ss

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3703 · November 10, 2011 at 3:52 AM

*haaa! AH!* I think my favorite Quilt-ism is on natto and how it is like a horse's *ss and since it is good for longevity....

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3703 · November 10, 2011 at 3:51 AM

Excellent AsianGrok! You're getting early paleo med training...

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3703 · November 10, 2011 at 3:51 AM

"Treating symptoms and ignoring diet and lifestyle choices is killing people. " Well said tempomat!

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3703 · November 10, 2011 at 3:46 AM

Isn't it funner to find out on some self volition sometimes?

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1074 · November 09, 2011 at 12:45 PM

Dr. Kruse's last several blog entries have been pretty much spelling/grammar error free. so lets not hear anymore grammar policing

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1371 · November 08, 2011 at 5:06 PM

hasnt martin berkhan debunked that one?

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1059 · November 07, 2011 at 1:40 PM

Nice way to simplify it Mallory. You ignore the more critical parts of Dr. K's recommendations which have to do with meal timing. These changes are focused on the circadian cycles. Also the suspension of exercise during the reset process.

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1074 · November 07, 2011 at 4:12 AM

Seriously, no one appreciates that Quilt is putting his neck on the line and offering his clinical experience here for the Paleo community on a DAILY BASIS. oh but its so easy to be a critic.

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1074 · November 07, 2011 at 4:10 AM

I'm a med student and POINT 2 is extremely hard to implement. This is a sentiment common among health-conscious Paleo-ers and fitness buffs but not a common idea among doctors nor the average patients. cut Dr. K some slack PLEASE and understand the man is doing much more good than bad. most surgeons are both wrong about health AND arrogant about their methods

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10502 · November 06, 2011 at 10:03 PM

Hey Quilty -- ya think that the way you communicate tends to engender bitching & moaning? Nah....couldn't be you....

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25467 · November 06, 2011 at 9:53 PM

Too many people settle for a F,D,C, and a B when an A is available.

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3891 · November 06, 2011 at 9:14 PM

I agree, especially with point #2.

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15976 · November 06, 2011 at 7:09 PM

Carbsane, this is getting serious now - I find myself agreein with you all the time! Seriously though, I wholly agree. Though I don't see doctors regularly and do indeed think that muh of what they will prescribe is not wise, when I have seen docs brought it my life theyve always advocated lifestyle changes *before* medicating too. They may not know th best lifestyle changes to actually make but theyve never told me to *just take these pills*.

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15976 · November 06, 2011 at 7:06 PM

It's his silly comments like the one you site that make doctors, scientists, and legitimate thinkers laugh at us

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8239 · November 06, 2011 at 5:13 PM

Getting confirmations, or verifications, is easy for nearly every theory. Looking for confirmations is a sign that we're doing something other than "science." The best theories forbid things from happening. Good (truly useful) theories have refutability built in to the design and testing procedures. I flinch when I hear someone opine, "That theory has been proved." For me, the closest we can get to saying we "know" something, is when falsifiability has been demonstrated in a given case. "Well, now we know that's not the case." Very different from the "is" habit of thought.

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8879 · November 06, 2011 at 5:13 PM

Honestly, I don't know about you, but my and my husband's doctors have always advised lifestyle changes first. Now if you don't agree with the advice, that's one thing, but the vast majority of the medical profession I've had dealings with (mostly for hubby) and know personally (many college friends are MD's now) aren't the non-caring dolts everyone makes them out to be. Part of that is the patient -- Doc, I can't do XYZ. Can you give me a pill? Heck, Kruse thinks that's the solution for smoking -- Chantix all around everyone!

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8879 · November 06, 2011 at 5:09 PM

The problem is how you go from there being some support in the literature to the definitive numbers and assertions. Nipple massage WILL decrease cancer risk by **50%** ... that's the problem. Now many massages? How often? What levels of oxytocin are involved? etc.etc.

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8239 · November 06, 2011 at 5:07 PM

Getting confirmations, or verifications, is easy for nearly every theory. Looking for confirmations is a sign that we're doing something other than "science." The best theories forbid things from happening, and have specific ways to demonstrate that a theory has been refuted, rather than that the theory has been proved. Show me a theory that can be falsified (via testing) and I perk up.

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11986 · November 06, 2011 at 4:54 PM

You know, this is one of the most interesting points in this whole Dr. K "controversy." Part of me understands that it's human nature to want a relationship with our healers, our medicine people -- it's an ancient role. But I also think that in this modern, impersonal age, we need to change our expectations a bit. All over this board, and other boards, I see people following advice because they find the personality of the adviser congenial, and arguing against people whose personality they dislike. It's understandable, but gets us no closer to physiological, scientific truth.

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15003 · November 06, 2011 at 4:38 PM

archevore excludes grains with gluten.

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121 · November 06, 2011 at 11:33 AM

But when your ego is so big, he becomes his greatest obstacle. I guess if people are desperate enough, they can learn to deal with his condescension and the harshness he so loves. That sounds unhealthy, almost codependent.

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1457 · November 06, 2011 at 1:25 AM

I just became a The Quilt fan!

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332 · November 06, 2011 at 12:54 AM

+2 if I could, so +1

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1059 · November 06, 2011 at 12:34 AM

Hey, he can't help anybody who des not want to be helped. Their loss.

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37187 · November 05, 2011 at 8:02 PM

This might be a good question for a new thread; this one's SO LONG.

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19220 · November 05, 2011 at 4:05 PM

Everything in the world would be stained yellow :)

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11986 · November 05, 2011 at 3:45 AM

Well, thank goodness that at age 44 I finally developed some willpower and some ability to control my gluttony. Sure, I also went on a VLC diet right at that time, but that's just a coincidence.

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8979 · November 05, 2011 at 12:34 AM

lots of people don't want to hear BS either

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8979 · November 05, 2011 at 12:31 AM

archevore includes grains, too.

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1059 · November 04, 2011 at 10:13 PM

Doesn't Oz's diet has no meat and includes Whole Grains, sounds pretty far to me. http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/prehistoric-diet-plan

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8879 · November 03, 2011 at 5:03 PM

cont. Bottom line ... we don't always agree, though moreso of late as we both stepped back (or maybe ascended to 30,000 feet) to see the big picture/context. It seems to me that those who don't like what Kurt says (as opposed to how he says it) are those who avoid being told the straight truth. I think we have that in common, b/c lots of people don't want to hear that they had any part in their situation or in doing what's needed to rectify it.

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8879 · November 03, 2011 at 5:01 PM

Kurt has commented on my blog to the effect of recognizing that obesity can be attained through good old garden variety gluttony (I agree) and/or eating for other than food-as-fuel reasons (e.g. comfort foods, fast foods). He hasn't elaborated much on eating disorders but states the obvious that, for many, obesity IS an eating disorder (as is yo-yo dieting IMO). ... to be cont.

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19220 · November 03, 2011 at 2:24 AM

Alexandra, Seriously I agree with your rant. I also find it all very strange and not a healthy attitude.

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19220 · November 03, 2011 at 2:22 AM

Melissa, that is very bizarre. However, you can't go around letting people know you have nipples. Children might see! :)

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8979 · November 03, 2011 at 1:29 AM

Paleo is advertised as being the weight loss solution for everyone. Harris does not make a distinction between fat people who follow a careful diet and fat people who eat SAD.

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8979 · November 03, 2011 at 1:22 AM

Not sure I agree with you anymore, but I probably would have half a year ago. Now, how far are we from Dr. Oz's paleo diet? It sounds loads like archevore if he would just add a chunk of meat on top.

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56616 · November 03, 2011 at 12:53 AM

Quilt please refrain from insulting the mods. I assure you Patrik is on your side.

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56616 · November 03, 2011 at 12:52 AM

I worked a co-op shift once with a girl whose MAIN JOB was editing out nipples in Maxim!!! So the other stuff is OK, but not the nipples?

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19220 · November 02, 2011 at 11:10 PM

I looked.......

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2861 · November 02, 2011 at 10:35 PM

I guess I haven't really seen Dr. Harris talk about weight loss much. He has made statements that too many people are addicted to modern life to do what it takes to lose weight, but I don't see that directed at low-carbers or people on stalls. I think it was just a general statement about modern society. I do think many people are going to be very disappointed if they think they are going to lose all the weight they want by just going Paleo. I see Paleo being more about health. For weight loss, you have to do whatever works, and that can vary greatly from person to person.

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12369 · November 02, 2011 at 10:31 PM

Thats a touch dramatic don't you think? Well maybe not considering the pile-on that has occured as of late.

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 10:21 PM

Macros and rewardmdont matter.....how we account for them is the ultimate arbiter. People try this and they are shocked at how it works. Im not selling my cure for obesity.....im open sourcing it. You do it it out and see if its full of shit. What is the risk? It does not work? Is this not what robb wolf said in his book? He did not get ass screwed saying it here. Its simple. You may not agree with it.....but 450000 hits at MDA says enough to me.

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 10:18 PM

Of course it would....its been done in other areas of the brain somwe dont need to re do it. Some clowns on here need to read it. Once you understand this is a function of how the brain works then you hae to just come up with neural exercises that can bypass the leptin receptor. I did just that and that is how i fixed myself. It was easy. I ate a paleo diet doing it and i yoked it to the circadian cycles and drew my blood to see the hormonal response of the brain.....that response told me about my epigentic switches. Then inadjust my diet. This is why all the bullshit on diet is a waste

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 10:13 PM

Im human i err.....shoot me.

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24523 · November 02, 2011 at 10:04 PM

Okay Quilt. Have a lovely evening :)

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9647 · November 02, 2011 at 9:59 PM

Agreed on Jaminet himself, of course.

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9647 · November 02, 2011 at 9:58 PM

Not that you were suggesting I was on either side of the fence, but I've pretty much entirely absented myself from the Quilt debate. Anyhow, as it turns out I've been on both sides of the starch issue: LC/VLC for a year and a half, Jaminet-level starch for the last eight months. I don't actually see too much dogmatism from either side of this particular debate, but that could just be because of my own perspective. But the difference between CW and paleo/ancestral/evolutionary seems like much more of a rift to me.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 9:53 PM

...just to clarify that Jaminet himself has not been dogmatic or condescending.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 9:51 PM

And there usually one big difference between paleo's who take stabs at the Good Doctor and paleos who luv him. Paleo's who luv him have had less-than-stellar success with paleo. Maybe if some of the safe starch people wore our high-heels for 30-60 days, they wouldn't be as dogmatic and condescending as the CW's.

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 9:40 PM

Kamal you remind me of the peanuts teacher as a mod. Do not insult little john. He will tear your ass up.

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 9:37 PM

Mafia like? I dont think the AMA is that smart. I think you just insulted the Mafia. You might be careful.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 9:35 PM

There are some who are quite accurate after editing and post removal. The annoying thing is when they edit edit edit and then claim they don't know what the fuss is about. At least for you, Quilt, it seems like a card laid is a card played. Like it or not, it is like one big akashic record.

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9647 · November 02, 2011 at 9:34 PM

There's one big difference between us and the CW researchers. We've tried paleo for 30-60 days and they haven't. If every single one of them did then you better believe the research climate would be looking pretty damn different ....

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 9:32 PM

Dude this is at its core precisely what i believe and because you have deciphered it means even with all my bad ass grammar and spelling and fat fingers. It means i am getting itnthru contrary to patrik claim that im a total shit at communicating. Plus one!

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 9:26 PM

No i dont. These are paleo failures that i want to bring back to our ship. I do it because of all the future failures will need a resource. Dexter has been a remarkable help there. Im a busy dude and he really is a great person for our community

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 9:25 PM

..and unfortunately, some of Quilty's hangers-on-ers are starting to say similar things. Like if it isn't working yet, to free your mind or something like that. DrK has clarified his stance recently. Like, people aren't doing it wrong, they just aren't doing enough or it takes longer for some.

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 9:24 PM

Funny none of the critics even bothered to look. Its true. And the science i write about is highly cited and most are tied to nobel prize winners

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 9:23 PM

Correct but is also my right to ignore and say kiss my ass because you have no context for your criticisms. If i was a crazy bastard i would be sued out of existance. I have no claims against me in close to twenty years in the highest risk specialty. Yes that is me tactfully telling you, aravind carbsane shari mallory melissa and akd to kiss my hardened ass. I can co exist with anyone. I spent ten years of residency getting my ass kicked routinely. This is not even a sparring session

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 9:22 PM

Even Robb Wolf says that if people don't lose weight on his program, then they are doing it wrong. I really think its just all about a bunch of men, using a male hormonal model for the standard for everyone, and then blaming and down-voting people who work differently.

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 9:18 PM

Im still waiting to hear one paleo person who is 100% accurate besides melissa........lol

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 9:17 PM

I talk to people who stuggle.......i have open comments. I like problems. Eating paleo alone only works for SOME. To know that you need to practice medicine or read any paleo forum. We Have a duty to help those who struggle. I really dont need to help the rest because their epigenetics and leptin receptor work well. Even robb wolf helps those who struggle......so does sisson. When you piss on the struggling its an incongruent message. To make change we need to help up the worse of us. We are only as good as our weakest link.

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11986 · November 02, 2011 at 9:03 PM

Loon, I'm not a leptin reset person, but thank you for the brief summary of Harris's stance, above. It's quite amazing to me to watch the condescension all the way around about weight loss. Those for whom VLC did *not* work are told they did it wrong (or something) by successful VLCers, while those for whom it *did* work are told by higher-carb eaters that we shouldn't *have* to be VLC, and that we're doing something wrong if that's where we are. A pox on the lot of 'em.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 8:39 PM

He is not very popular with low carbers with resistant weight loss problems because of his stance on carbs and the reasons for their lack of weight loss. He has been condescending to people in this situation, implying that their stalls are due to willpower, or just eating crap. Dr. Kruse has a more friendly approach to these people. Both are ruthless in arguing their point with other docs and researchers.

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2861 · November 02, 2011 at 7:42 PM

Loon, why isn't Harris well respected among the Leptin Reset crowd?

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 7:07 PM

Harris is not well-respected in the crowd that has been helped the most by the leptin reset. But, kudo's to him for editing.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 7:03 PM

No, I am not against ethics boards, but it does seem that Guyenet was silenced about something that is outside of his current job and Kruse isn't. As a result, Kruse has about half a million hits on the leptin reset thread on MDA and Guyenet has an N=2.

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24523 · November 02, 2011 at 6:39 PM

And lastly, I don't really disagree with what you say here. You throw out information, and it helps people. If people want to argue about the manner and content, that is their right as citizens of the Internet.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 6:39 PM

Currently, he doesn't seem to be directly responding to folks who post their numbers and ask for help.

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24523 · November 02, 2011 at 6:37 PM

Also, there are a few threads discussing the pros and cons of various gurus. Like this one on Ray Peat...http://paleohacks.com/questions/32918/your-opinion-on-ray-peats-ideas-and-dietary-advice#axzz1cZf7uGg2

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24523 · November 02, 2011 at 6:36 PM

Hello Quilty! If there's a band of merry mods, can I be Little John?

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 6:36 PM

I have found that he doesn't ignore much. There are a couple of people. Lots of times he doesn't have a direct or instant response, but you will find the answer in a new post, maybe a week or two later.

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 6:31 PM

Im not......and im vague because they are not my patient. Im guiding them to places they can get answers or learn to ask the right questions. The fact that people are bitching and moaning over someone trying to lend a hand is unreal and ironic. I guess its that entitled atitude.

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2861 · November 02, 2011 at 6:29 PM

@Loon, I don't think the WRONG GUY thing works; look at Kurt Harris. He is not a researcher but is well respected here and other Paleo blogs. Quilt just makes all these off-the-cuff remarks that are proven wrong so much that he appears scatterbrained and untrustworthy. He said that Kurt Harris's starch advice was "madness" then backtracked and said it was his cancer advice that was madness. But there was no cancer advice. "Madness" seems rather extreme word to be throwing around at phantoms. It just doesn't seem worth the effort to fact-check someone like this.

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 6:27 PM

If you read this site......thousands of complaints about MDs that could care less and spew CW to yall. Yet they dont get multiple Threads about them? I guess patrik and his band of merry mods can even bend their own rules when they see fit. I wonder if we will soon have threads rating every poster?

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19220 · November 02, 2011 at 6:25 PM

Quilt, my advice would be that you will get a lot further in your aim of changing your profession if you stick to the truth and don't go around making stuff up.

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 6:23 PM

Im not here fighting anyones battles. Im just posting info that might help people. The fact that some have a problem with how i do it i find funny. If i dont dig someone i dont bother with them. I wont respond and i move. People like jack kronk are in a quandry and i think how i think might help him with his own docs get to his core issues. To me......that is at the core of a biohack.

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 6:20 PM

Honestly im not interested in whether im liked or not......im only interested in changing my profession. Me, Brent, kevin and a few other big hitters know what our focus is. Maybe people dont realize that i really care about my goal and not their issues. I also think people forget neurosurgeons deal with pretty deep shit in a clinical setting. We all have thick skins and our quite used to bad reactions for many reasons. We are schooled for emotions not to bother us. And maybe that is why people think what they do. It works for how i practice and my patients like how i fight for them.

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 6:16 PM

If you dont like what i say dont read it. I could care less. Im here for the people who do paleo and primal and dont find success. Many of you do not realize that that makes up the bigger majority under this tent. Every guru has a site with a forum that shows this. Im here and there to help them. No one else seems to be doing it. If i can help i try. If i can i dont. If i can direct them somewhere that may help them i do. But i am not your google scholar and i am not doing you work for you. Its out there if you want to find out something new.

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5002 · November 02, 2011 at 6:14 PM

Wow. Hey Quilt: jinx!

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5002 · November 02, 2011 at 6:13 PM

It doesn't seem fair to expect a doctor to maintain a public database. That's a lot of extra work, and he has to choose his battles. Same with references: researchers have the time to carefully compile bibliographies, but this is not required for theoretical idea formation. There is, at least, enough information for interested persons to figure it out. But lets face it, this is the most tedious and boring aspect of research. I am sympathetic to his decision to not spend the considerable amount of time that would be required to provide this as well.

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 6:12 PM

I have no problems answering questions but this week is a bad week. Im on call and the knife and gun club is keeping me quite busy this week. Im not here to be pub med or google scholar. I post cites so you can read them and draw your own conclusions. People dont go into a clinicians office and ask for cites when they have problems. They do ask a researcher to domthis because they have no clinical abilities and they must default to what is written. Few here seem to understand that distinction. Moreover, i dont see any of the other clinicians being held to those standards either

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8879 · November 02, 2011 at 6:08 PM

I think that's a huge plus for Kurt -- he corrects his (much less frequent) mistakes. I don't think a spell checker is responsible for Jack's horrible writings. My mini computer is not much bigger than an iPad or whatever ... I have no problems typing out words coherently on it. If technology is failing you, replace the technology. He is doing himself no favors by carrying on as he is now. As to the institution, OK, but would you prefer they didn't have ethics boards to scrutinize the studies conducted in their names? The flipside is that you CAN hold the final products up to scrutiny.

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5002 · November 02, 2011 at 6:08 PM

The mechanism in that post is rewiring our brain (hypothalamus) to recognize and respond to neural signals from food. He chooses fat and protein because carbs are implicated in two pathways that cannot be dominant for rewiring to occur.

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 6:01 PM

Pretty damn accurate.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 5:59 PM

.....ouch......

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 5:56 PM

Jack's big language problem is that he seems to be relying on the spell-corrector of his tablet. Harris seems to have the problem from time to time, too, though he seems to make more apologies about it.

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39841 · November 02, 2011 at 5:55 PM

They took a pass on the Krebs Cycle when it was first submitted...yikes.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 5:52 PM

@Sane, I am referring to Guyenet's bosses who pulled the plug on his proposed food reward experiment because he works at some university. The university is the zoo, and Guyenet is the animal in the cage. It was not meant as an attack on a person, but as an attack of an institution.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 5:48 PM

Ohhh, lets hope that we can be better than Nature. Hopefully it will be OK to entertain a theory here more than a minute before throwing it out.

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8879 · November 02, 2011 at 5:48 PM

@loon cont. Really I DO understand -- I'm not the most concise blogger out there and I'm rather prolific so attention to proofing is not high on my priority list. Things slip through, just exponentially moreso in Jack's offerings. Speaking of personal attacks ... Zookeepers? Come on. Jack's n=2000 is also far, FAR, away from any accountability, period!

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4764 · November 02, 2011 at 5:47 PM

It's a good suggestion, Eric. Several here posting concerns have tried exactly that, but because the comments on his blog are moderated, he just doesn't approve the question if he doesn't like it. And when he does answer, he still has a tendency to answer the question he *wants* to answer rather than the question being asked. His recent blog post on the mechanism(s) by which the leptin resent works. He never elucidated and known (or speculative) mechnisms. Additionall, he has not yet supplied the back-data or references for his speculations in spite of being asked numerous times.

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4764 · November 02, 2011 at 5:43 PM

It's generally believed that the risk reduction afforded by breastfeeding occurs via two mechanisms: (1) lower estrogen levels during breastfeeding (2) offloading of toxins from breast tissue. Massage (and oxytocin and orgasms) certainly impact physical and emotional well-being, no one would argue otherwise. At this point, however, it appears to be difficult to make the case that either massage or oxytocin or orgasm have a direct mechanism by which they can reduce cancer risk.

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8879 · November 02, 2011 at 5:42 PM

@Loon: I do not know your degree of education, but to have an MD and DDS, and the prerequisite BS, being from NYC, with English as his primary language, he should darned well care enough about his spelling and grammar. Really, even going to an eng school as I did, my electives professors still insisted on coherent writing. Some slack is given to most in this medium, but his writings are downright awful. That he doesn't seem to care to improve that is more telling in my opinion. Posts here are one thing, but he even has typos on his Quilt on his blog!!

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 5:39 PM

...and now we have a situation where Guyenet has been silenced by his own zookeepers, meanwhile, Dr. K has been creating his own n=2000 on the internet, far away from the tentacles of the ethics board.

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19220 · November 02, 2011 at 5:35 PM

@Travis: Good points. It is when people forget this and start believing they have the "truth" that the problems start.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 5:35 PM

@thhq, I stand behind my statement. I think the personal attacks here are all out of proportion to the offenses. What is really boils down to is, he's a guy who thinks he has all the answers, but he is THE WRONG GUY! That guy was supposed to be from research. That guy was supposed to be able to care about the difference between your and you're.

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39841 · November 02, 2011 at 5:33 PM

Loon: We're all crackpots on the fringe from a mainstream science/mdeicine POV. It'd be like *Nature* getting offended by people submitting unpublishable papers. They just decline it, probably with a polite letter. Perhaps we should do that as well. It's all leaky gut? No thanks, but I appreciate your hypothesis. We're all just bouncing crackpot theories off of each other. None of them are true or false. There is no truth or falsity. There are those things that have been falsified and those things that have yet to be falsified.

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39841 · November 02, 2011 at 5:32 PM

Loon: We're all crackpots on the fringe from a mainstream science/mdeicine POV. It's like *Nature* gets offended by people submitting unpublishable stuff. They just decline it, probably with a polite letter. Perhaps we should do that as well. It's all leaky gut? No thanks, but I appreciate your hypothesis. We're all just bouncing crackpot theories off of each other. None of them are true or false. There is no truth or falsity. There are those things that have been falsified and those things that have yet to be falsified.

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15003 · November 02, 2011 at 5:30 PM

Aravind, yes, it's about an hour, but the link I posted above also includes transcript links, so that may be helpful.

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10176 · November 02, 2011 at 5:28 PM

Well loon, maybe PAY is too strong. I'd settle for "explain clearly in one sentence".

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13692 · November 02, 2011 at 5:26 PM

Beth - Kamal and I discussed your link as part of our Low Reward experiment (that you may have seen at Stephan's blog) since it seemed very relevant. I am looking forward to watching the video when I get the chance since I think it is quite long if I recall

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13692 · November 02, 2011 at 5:25 PM

Well played....

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 5:22 PM

@Eric, yes, I think Quilt decided to do an end-run around the researchers, the medical establishment, and even the paleo experts, and for that HE MUST PAY!!!

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5002 · November 02, 2011 at 5:21 PM

Also, I forgot that I've emailed him directly, and he responded. It took a few days, but he got around to it.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 5:20 PM

I am no longer hot since I reset my thyroid, too.

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15003 · November 02, 2011 at 5:19 PM

Thanks Meredith! Here's the link to the video series mentioned. Well worth a watch: http://yourbrainonporn.com/your-brain-on-porn-series

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5002 · November 02, 2011 at 5:18 PM

I like reading the comments on his blog. He is very responsive to most people.

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16131 · November 02, 2011 at 5:17 PM

I read that one too Beth. It was really interesting.

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15003 · November 02, 2011 at 5:15 PM

Thanks Kamal! TL, yes, I think the questions re theory are very interesting and am looking forward to more on that.

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13692 · November 02, 2011 at 5:14 PM

It's my lunch break :-)

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19220 · November 02, 2011 at 5:13 PM

Aravind, were you not going to go and do some work?

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 5:12 PM

@Bree (((HUGS)))

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13692 · November 02, 2011 at 5:10 PM

P-O-R-N.......+1

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 5:09 PM

+1 Beth (but no upvotes left) I think it is sad, but also interesting. If his theory turns out to be mostly right, won't these questions be a great (bad) example researchers and educators can point to? If his theory turns out to be mostly wrong, I would still be happy to say that I am bold enough to be on the forefront.

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13692 · November 02, 2011 at 5:09 PM

Kumar - you are out of line. Of course that depends if The Loon is a hot chick or not, so perhaps I need to do some re-con first.

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24523 · November 02, 2011 at 5:08 PM

P.S. Beth -- I saw your post about porn and reward the other day. Very interesting!

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13692 · November 02, 2011 at 5:07 PM

Beth - I don't see it as sad, not because of my feelings for/against Quilt. People obviously have a lot of thoughts to share and I think that is good. Apart from the few ad hominem attacks, it seemed like a good discussion. If you read the question as "why do you hate Quilt", the of course that would be terrible. But that is not how I read it.

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24523 · November 02, 2011 at 5:07 PM

Get a room, Loon and Aravind!

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 5:07 PM

What, not the big screen tv 30,000 feet up? You missed a great opportunity here.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 5:06 PM

@travis, I think you are spot-on with the vagueness. I don't think he is giving medical advice over the internet. People complain when he is vague. People complain when he is specific. People complain when he is anonymous. People complain when he identifies himself. I think some people just want to complain.

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5002 · November 02, 2011 at 5:04 PM

I think a major problem here is that people are divorced from the norms and practices of academia. Preparing a scholarly article for a peer reviewed journal is a high-effort endeavor with high entry costs. Practicing medicine and collecting data are two very different activities. For these reasons, I think that a blog is an appropriate format for what Dr K is trying to do.

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13692 · November 02, 2011 at 5:02 PM

@The Loon - good question...except for the cites part. But I did oblige in providing you links to his blog at least :-)

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19220 · November 02, 2011 at 5:01 PM

Have you had much experience of questioning Dr K?

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15003 · November 02, 2011 at 5:01 PM

I don't think it's black and white. But I was a bit taken aback this AM that the other thread was up to more than 50 upvotes. I'm relatively new here, but it just struck me as sad. But that's just me I suppose.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 5:01 PM

@sane, "in Taubes defense"??????? Can't believe we have that in print.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 5:00 PM

@dex I don't think that carbsane is the same person as itsthewoo2.

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13692 · November 02, 2011 at 5:00 PM

@The Loon / Exceptionally Brash - good question...except for the cites part. But I did oblige in providing you links to his blog at least :-)

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20519 · November 02, 2011 at 5:00 PM

you have a tv?!? * runs fast * * hides *

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20519 · November 02, 2011 at 5:00 PM

you have a tv?!? * runs fast * * hides *

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5002 · November 02, 2011 at 4:59 PM

Sounds right. But he also has a pretty interesting take on how it should be timed, which based on ideas about rewiring unused but plastic regions of the brain that are capable of handling leptin signaling. It'd take a lot of expensive research to establish that. Undeniably, though, its intriguing and stimulating.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 4:59 PM

Probably a good time to remind all here that the paleo/primal diet also has a pretty bad rep amongst most cw nutrition researchers. And, they feel they have the appropriate cites, too. So, no, I don't take much stock in having established authorities with cites.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 4:57 PM

@Shari, I just threw that comment in because I know some people absolutely need that sort of stuff all the time. I can and do use and appreciate citations. But there are some things I do without citations, and the leptin reset was one of them.

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13692 · November 02, 2011 at 4:56 PM

"In Taubes' defense"...now I have seen everything. That's it. I need to leave the Bizarro Internet that my computer is apparently tethered to and return to the world as I used to know it :-)

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8879 · November 02, 2011 at 4:48 PM

Loon, I think this is different compared to Taubes. In Taubes' defense (eek!), I don't think his personal numbers mattered much *UNTIL* he came out with WWGF as a "diet book" and mentioned following the program. Taubes just fails on his misstated "facts". Kruse says his own extensive testing and analyses is how he developed his program. In that regard, he probably should publish it based on that alone. But in lieu of that, how about get XYZ tests, if they are ABC, do the reset and look for PDQ. QED ;-)

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37187 · November 02, 2011 at 4:47 PM

I make a habit of following my gut instincts, Travis, and your answer is what I'm feeling. I don't require a deferential "bedside manner" from Quilt or anyone else who engages in dialogue here; I am trying out ideas and listening to experiences. It's not about style. With Quilt, I tend to feel he's saying what he believes within the latitude of professional principles and his mood at the time. When he's most blunt, I figure he's either saying what he really thinks or feeling defensive and I have no sure-fire insight about what might trigger his reactions so I'm back to, "What does my gut say?"

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24523 · November 02, 2011 at 4:45 PM

I see Aravind already said this below...but Quilt is right about a lot of things. He eats paleo. Pretty strict paleo. He's also right about trying to think out of the box.

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8879 · November 02, 2011 at 4:44 PM

Ummm... Dextery I think you have me confused with somewoon else? My neurons are functioning very well thankyouverymuch.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 4:42 PM

As far as I know, he has not gone totally "Ned Kock" on his own personal tests, but that has not been necessary for others. Dr. Oz forced Taubes' hand on the vap test, but I don't know if Guyenet was required to provide his test results in order to be taken seriously by some.

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1054 · November 02, 2011 at 4:41 PM

Evelyn, why don't you just give it up and go back to Amgen. You dislike the doc because he doesn't live in your world of proving what you hold near and dear to your heart. You can't change that your neurons are burnt and will never be normal.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 4:40 PM

This question is absolutely possible to answer, it is just that so far, no serious bites.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 4:39 PM

You are right, that is what I am asking. I am not the person who said Quilt's stuff is 100% bunk. Surely in all the stuff he has posted, he must have gotten something right, even if it was only accidental.

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24523 · November 02, 2011 at 4:38 PM

I can see your point Beth. Sitting on the sidelines is much easier than being on the field. Luckily, it seems that Dr. Kruse is quite resilient. It would be cool to have a page that listed the ideas of each paleo guru, along with support and criticism of each (being as objective as possible).

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24271 · November 02, 2011 at 4:37 PM

So we need to provide citations but you don't think he does? Interesting.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 4:37 PM

Piling on? I don't understand. Paleo2.0 I think meant it as a snark, but I think it is a legit question. Is all of it 100% bunk? Aren't the quilt-haters going a bit overboard?

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15003 · November 02, 2011 at 4:33 PM

I suppose I'm old and grumpy, but I'm not finding it that entertaining. I'm not a Dr. K groupie, and I realize he puts himself out there, but there's just something about the piling on here that I find a little uncomfortable.

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24523 · November 02, 2011 at 4:17 PM

Ha! This back and forth is entertaining.

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3703 · November 10, 2011 at 3:44 AM

Loon, thank you for your critical comments and this thread.

Kruse asks questions... and I enjoy all the questions.

I love all of our paleo gurus because they each bring unique backgrounds, varied frameworks (high carb v. low carb v. WHOTHE#*@CARES), rockstar qualities, brainaic summations, non-degrees v. academic power, etc.

And same with PH'ers!

For me I see Kruse getting a ton of things right which trump minor personality quirks. I find the science he highlights, his interpretations and translation into practical settings STERLING. Few paleo peeps even know what adrenal fatigue is much less be able to address and improve it. Kruse and the few that 'get it' do it (like Robb Wolf and Whole 9). Unfortunately, there are a ton things that somehow CW medicine misses...

Like grains, gluten, lectins, phytates... Like intestinal permeability/leaky gut/FODMAP-intolerance... adrenals, pituitary/hypothalamus, leptin, testosterone, fertility, s*xxx...

What Kruse nails like a nail in the coffin of the SAD/USDA/FDA/EPA/ADA/AHA/AMA/BigPharma/BigAgri/BigMilitary myth factory:

--I concur w/Kruse: IMHO Paleo is great for 1-2 standard deviations of the population that try it and don't need further biohacking. They're perfect. However, for the 2.5-3 SD'outliers' paleo just aint gonna cut it. Mild to extreme hacking improves to acceptable or even perfection. I love the stories on PH where after a hack or two, everything is fine. My thoughts are that biohacking is a must to fix deep neuro-endocrine-HPA-gonad S.A.D. damage.

--Kruse, you get it.

--you understand the recent and super new biochemistry (PPAR!!!!)

--the literature for both evolutionary biology and clinical medicine, you appear to have a good grasp of

--you promote paleo/primal/ancestral eating

--you are one of the few paleo AND integrative 'coaches' (ditto Robb Wolf! and Whole 9!!!)

--you are one of the few paleo AND integrative 'coaches' AND share what ya learn (ditto Robb Wolf! and Whole 9!!!)

--you practice what you preach, you're transparent (ditto Robb Wolf! and Whole 9!!!)

--your patients are verbal and appear to love you (ditto Robb Wolf! and Whole 9!!!)

--you take time to explain, break it down and point people to potential solutions (ditto Robb Wolf! and Whole 9!!!)

--you are not only MD trained but a surgeon; you really gore and hack your patients ha

--you cannabalize your own spine surgery practice by promoting optimal health

--you promote paleo/primal/ancestral eating and optimal health with your colleagues

-- " " with the world on the blog, MDA and PH

--(not related but thank God PH'ers harassed [SCRATCH] helped you evolve into blogging...I love the 'quilt' and cellular terroirs...)

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39841 · November 02, 2011 at 4:35 PM

A lot of what he says is scientifically sound, but I think his attempt at creating (what looks to me to be) a unified theory of disease that centers around leptin/epigenetics/leaky gut (brb epileakyleptingenetics.com) has yet to be proven. I agree more with Paul Jaminet that malnutrition is the root cause of nearly all disease, though I suppose you could argue that leptin/epigenetic/leaky gut issues only occur in a state of malnutrition.

The problem that most have with him is that he is intentionally vague, which is probably necessary if you're a practicing doctor giving health advice over the internet. You'll never squeeze a dosage of something like K2 out of him because he's not your doctor and can't act as one. I guess those of us who are totally unqualified and un-credentialed have an advantage. Ahem. I suspect that the specific advice that he lays out for his actual patients is quite effective in improving their health and addressing whatever maladies they may have. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't mention leptin to most of them. I don't think I've ever seen him give advice that would necessarily harm someone, so I think all told he's a net benefit to the community, especially when he talks about the things he does in his day job. If you have a slipped disc, you want to talk to him, not any of the rest of the people out there.

I've definitely gone in certain directions after reading something he's written that have improved my understanding of various things.

Let's not forget that this here internet is 99.9999999999% noise with the faintest coherent signal of what we might call truth trying to be heard. I've seen outright troll/spam posts that have introduced some new idea or sent me in a useful (non-Viagra) direction. I've talked to what must have been clinically insane homeless people in real life who have said profound things (amidst plenty of gibberish). Nearly everyone you meet has something to offer you in one way or another. I used to write people off as soon as they appeared to be unreliable in one way or another, but I've since become far more tolerant of the noise because when you wait it out, an interesting signal usually comes.

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1074 · November 11, 2011 at 8:51 PM

the most important thing to possess today is to be able to sift through the over-information and make a rational/correct decision. takes intelligence and maturity. i guess this is why it seems most ppl at Paleo hacks are older, middle age and onwards.

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10502 · November 06, 2011 at 10:03 PM

Hey Quilty -- ya think that the way you communicate tends to engender bitching & moaning? Nah....couldn't be you....

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 6:31 PM

Im not......and im vague because they are not my patient. Im guiding them to places they can get answers or learn to ask the right questions. The fact that people are bitching and moaning over someone trying to lend a hand is unreal and ironic. I guess its that entitled atitude.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 5:06 PM

@travis, I think you are spot-on with the vagueness. I don't think he is giving medical advice over the internet. People complain when he is vague. People complain when he is specific. People complain when he is anonymous. People complain when he identifies himself. I think some people just want to complain.

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37187 · November 02, 2011 at 4:47 PM

I make a habit of following my gut instincts, Travis, and your answer is what I'm feeling. I don't require a deferential "bedside manner" from Quilt or anyone else who engages in dialogue here; I am trying out ideas and listening to experiences. It's not about style. With Quilt, I tend to feel he's saying what he believes within the latitude of professional principles and his mood at the time. When he's most blunt, I figure he's either saying what he really thinks or feeling defensive and I have no sure-fire insight about what might trigger his reactions so I'm back to, "What does my gut say?"

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13692 · November 02, 2011 at 4:39 PM

I think he supports the fundamental tenets of Paleo that MANY people would agree with

EDIT - My open disagreements notwithstanding, I have never said Quilt was completely wrong. Far from it and I am not alone here. People reacting negatively to the other thread seem to think that it is black or white. I prefer my 60" HD color TV in the 21st century.

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3703 · November 10, 2011 at 4:11 AM

Nice Aravind. And just think a lot of those epic posts were first responses to hackers here! What would Kruse be without PH, it's like the chicken - n - the egg *haaa!*? And vice versa, we co-evolve, like life.

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15003 · November 02, 2011 at 5:30 PM

Aravind, yes, it's about an hour, but the link I posted above also includes transcript links, so that may be helpful.

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13692 · November 02, 2011 at 5:26 PM

Beth - Kamal and I discussed your link as part of our Low Reward experiment (that you may have seen at Stephan's blog) since it seemed very relevant. I am looking forward to watching the video when I get the chance since I think it is quite long if I recall

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15003 · November 02, 2011 at 5:19 PM

Thanks Meredith! Here's the link to the video series mentioned. Well worth a watch: http://yourbrainonporn.com/your-brain-on-porn-series

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16131 · November 02, 2011 at 5:17 PM

I read that one too Beth. It was really interesting.

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15003 · November 02, 2011 at 5:15 PM

Thanks Kamal! TL, yes, I think the questions re theory are very interesting and am looking forward to more on that.

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13692 · November 02, 2011 at 5:10 PM

P-O-R-N.......+1

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 5:09 PM

+1 Beth (but no upvotes left) I think it is sad, but also interesting. If his theory turns out to be mostly right, won't these questions be a great (bad) example researchers and educators can point to? If his theory turns out to be mostly wrong, I would still be happy to say that I am bold enough to be on the forefront.

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24523 · November 02, 2011 at 5:08 PM

P.S. Beth -- I saw your post about porn and reward the other day. Very interesting!

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13692 · November 02, 2011 at 5:07 PM

Beth - I don't see it as sad, not because of my feelings for/against Quilt. People obviously have a lot of thoughts to share and I think that is good. Apart from the few ad hominem attacks, it seemed like a good discussion. If you read the question as "why do you hate Quilt", the of course that would be terrible. But that is not how I read it.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 5:07 PM

What, not the big screen tv 30,000 feet up? You missed a great opportunity here.

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15003 · November 02, 2011 at 5:01 PM

I don't think it's black and white. But I was a bit taken aback this AM that the other thread was up to more than 50 upvotes. I'm relatively new here, but it just struck me as sad. But that's just me I suppose.

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20519 · November 02, 2011 at 5:00 PM

you have a tv?!? * runs fast * * hides *

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20519 · November 02, 2011 at 5:00 PM

you have a tv?!? * runs fast * * hides *

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5002 · November 02, 2011 at 4:57 PM

Here is what I suggest. Find one thing that Dr K has said with which you disagree. Make sure that your disagreement isn't trivial - i.e., that the outcome has important health implications. Find the place where he talks about it on his blog, which you can do by Googling 'Jackkruse' plus the main word that you are interested in. I recently did this to quickly find his comments on carnosine, for example. Formulate your disagreement as a question. Post it as a comment (on his blog). He will respond.

Kruse is cool like that. Dislike his style all you want, but he seems to take pleasure in defending himself. I'm pretty sure that he doesn't say anything without having a reason for it. This has some downsides. However, it also has a major upside: if ask him about it, he'll respond, and often in a spirited fashion.

There is no need to complain about Kruse. It's probably not the most productive option. I suggest talking to him about it. For a busy doctor, Kruse is surprisingly available.

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1074 · November 11, 2011 at 8:45 PM

Been a Quilt fan.

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1457 · November 06, 2011 at 1:25 AM

I just became a The Quilt fan!

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24523 · November 02, 2011 at 10:04 PM

Okay Quilt. Have a lovely evening :)

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 9:40 PM

Kamal you remind me of the peanuts teacher as a mod. Do not insult little john. He will tear your ass up.

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 9:23 PM

Correct but is also my right to ignore and say kiss my ass because you have no context for your criticisms. If i was a crazy bastard i would be sued out of existance. I have no claims against me in close to twenty years in the highest risk specialty. Yes that is me tactfully telling you, aravind carbsane shari mallory melissa and akd to kiss my hardened ass. I can co exist with anyone. I spent ten years of residency getting my ass kicked routinely. This is not even a sparring session

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24523 · November 02, 2011 at 6:39 PM

And lastly, I don't really disagree with what you say here. You throw out information, and it helps people. If people want to argue about the manner and content, that is their right as citizens of the Internet.

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24523 · November 02, 2011 at 6:37 PM

Also, there are a few threads discussing the pros and cons of various gurus. Like this one on Ray Peat...http://paleohacks.com/questions/32918/your-opinion-on-ray-peats-ideas-and-dietary-advice#axzz1cZf7uGg2

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24523 · November 02, 2011 at 6:36 PM

Hello Quilty! If there's a band of merry mods, can I be Little John?

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 6:27 PM

If you read this site......thousands of complaints about MDs that could care less and spew CW to yall. Yet they dont get multiple Threads about them? I guess patrik and his band of merry mods can even bend their own rules when they see fit. I wonder if we will soon have threads rating every poster?

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19220 · November 02, 2011 at 6:25 PM

Quilt, my advice would be that you will get a lot further in your aim of changing your profession if you stick to the truth and don't go around making stuff up.

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 6:23 PM

Im not here fighting anyones battles. Im just posting info that might help people. The fact that some have a problem with how i do it i find funny. If i dont dig someone i dont bother with them. I wont respond and i move. People like jack kronk are in a quandry and i think how i think might help him with his own docs get to his core issues. To me......that is at the core of a biohack.

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 6:20 PM

Honestly im not interested in whether im liked or not......im only interested in changing my profession. Me, Brent, kevin and a few other big hitters know what our focus is. Maybe people dont realize that i really care about my goal and not their issues. I also think people forget neurosurgeons deal with pretty deep shit in a clinical setting. We all have thick skins and our quite used to bad reactions for many reasons. We are schooled for emotions not to bother us. And maybe that is why people think what they do. It works for how i practice and my patients like how i fight for them.

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 6:16 PM

If you dont like what i say dont read it. I could care less. Im here for the people who do paleo and primal and dont find success. Many of you do not realize that that makes up the bigger majority under this tent. Every guru has a site with a forum that shows this. Im here and there to help them. No one else seems to be doing it. If i can help i try. If i can i dont. If i can direct them somewhere that may help them i do. But i am not your google scholar and i am not doing you work for you. Its out there if you want to find out something new.

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5002 · November 02, 2011 at 6:14 PM

Wow. Hey Quilt: jinx!

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5002 · November 02, 2011 at 6:13 PM

It doesn't seem fair to expect a doctor to maintain a public database. That's a lot of extra work, and he has to choose his battles. Same with references: researchers have the time to carefully compile bibliographies, but this is not required for theoretical idea formation. There is, at least, enough information for interested persons to figure it out. But lets face it, this is the most tedious and boring aspect of research. I am sympathetic to his decision to not spend the considerable amount of time that would be required to provide this as well.

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 6:12 PM

I have no problems answering questions but this week is a bad week. Im on call and the knife and gun club is keeping me quite busy this week. Im not here to be pub med or google scholar. I post cites so you can read them and draw your own conclusions. People dont go into a clinicians office and ask for cites when they have problems. They do ask a researcher to domthis because they have no clinical abilities and they must default to what is written. Few here seem to understand that distinction. Moreover, i dont see any of the other clinicians being held to those standards either

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5002 · November 02, 2011 at 6:08 PM

The mechanism in that post is rewiring our brain (hypothalamus) to recognize and respond to neural signals from food. He chooses fat and protein because carbs are implicated in two pathways that cannot be dominant for rewiring to occur.

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4764 · November 02, 2011 at 5:47 PM

It's a good suggestion, Eric. Several here posting concerns have tried exactly that, but because the comments on his blog are moderated, he just doesn't approve the question if he doesn't like it. And when he does answer, he still has a tendency to answer the question he *wants* to answer rather than the question being asked. His recent blog post on the mechanism(s) by which the leptin resent works. He never elucidated and known (or speculative) mechnisms. Additionall, he has not yet supplied the back-data or references for his speculations in spite of being asked numerous times.

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5002 · November 02, 2011 at 5:21 PM

Also, I forgot that I've emailed him directly, and he responded. It took a few days, but he got around to it.

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5002 · November 02, 2011 at 5:18 PM

I like reading the comments on his blog. He is very responsive to most people.

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19220 · November 02, 2011 at 5:01 PM

Have you had much experience of questioning Dr K?

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12369 · November 02, 2011 at 5:09 PM

In my opinion he is right about many things. However...he is wrong about things also. And I find it is in his inability to admit he's wrong or admit that he might not know everything about everything.

He makes claims on here that need to be substantiated - he is not making n=1 statements; he is making blanket statements based on 'hundreds and thousands of patients'. He MUST hold himself accountable for these claims. The burden of proof is on him with such huge statements!

As many have stated it is in his delivery where he needs a little work. His dismissive tone to some is quite condescending - and I have a problem with that. I don't think that anyone likes being dismissed as uninformed or downright stupid.

I truly beleive that his heart is in the right place. And I think that ph is a more interesting place with him.

Oh and here's my mothering for the day: ((I think we're in need of a serious group hug here on ph!))

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12369 · November 02, 2011 at 10:31 PM

Thats a touch dramatic don't you think? Well maybe not considering the pile-on that has occured as of late.

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 10:13 PM

Im human i err.....shoot me.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 9:35 PM

There are some who are quite accurate after editing and post removal. The annoying thing is when they edit edit edit and then claim they don't know what the fuss is about. At least for you, Quilt, it seems like a card laid is a card played. Like it or not, it is like one big akashic record.

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 9:18 PM

Im still waiting to hear one paleo person who is 100% accurate besides melissa........lol

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 5:12 PM

@Bree (((HUGS)))

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37187 · November 02, 2011 at 4:53 PM

In the most general sense, my perception is that Dr. K is saying a messed up "broken" metabolism can impede weight loss and in his best judgment leptin may be the most important factor to consider in effecting recovery to your metabolism. He's also sharing a remedy that seems to work for many people.

He speaks with a loud voice to me because he has seen ravaged metabolisms up close both directly and indirectly because he's simply in the right place to make relevant observations.

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 6:01 PM

Pretty damn accurate.

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15226 · January 01, 2012 at 4:10 PM

He's pretty right about leptin and it's importance. I've not found anything to contradict anything he says, here's a partial list....

Leptin:

  • Directly affects TRH (Guo and others 2004)

  • Stimulates the sympathetic nervous system (Ren 2004)

  • Works on the same receptors as insulin; insulin is an endogenous leptin antagonist (Lustig AHS)(Walder and others 1997; Ceddia and others 1998)(Kieffer and others 1997; Lam and others 2004)

  • Leptin reduces GLUT2 glucose transport (Lam et al. 2004)

  • Obesity is related to an impaired regulation of leptin by insulin, since leptin levels increased in lean men but decreased in obese men following a high-fat meal. (Imbeault and others 2001)

  • Decreases hepatic cholesterol synthesis, promotes hepatic uptake of plasma cholesterol (VanPatten and others 2001)

  • Testosterone lowers leptin (Ogura and others 2000; Soderberg and others 2001; Casabiell and others 2001)

  • Leptin inhibits cortisol and corticosterone secretion (Szucs and others 2001)

  • Growth hormone lowers leptin (Isozaki 1999)

  • Fructose decreases leptin (Teff and others 2004)

  • Leptin activates fatty acid oxidation and decreases TG content in the heart (Atkinson and others 2002)

  • Plasma leptin levels are controlled by production rate rather than clearance rate. (Schoeller and others 1997)

  • Leptin reduces the rate of glucagon-stimulated glycogenolysis. (Ceddia and others 1999)

  • ROS are involved in leptin signaling; chronic oxidative stress in endothelial cells under hyperleptinemia may promote atherosclerosis (Bouloumie and others 1999)

  • Leptin regulates endocrine and immune functions, playing a role in innate and acquired immunity. (Faggioni and others 2001)

  • Leptin may be a sweet-sensing suppressor (Kawai and others 2000; Shigemura and others 2004)

  • Vitamin D inhibits leptin (Menendez and others 2001)

  • Inflammation increases leptin (Gualillo and others 2000)

  • Diurnal leptin rhythms are entrained to meal patterns (Schoeller et al. 1997)

  • Ghrelin levels are affected by meal timing (Kim and others 2004)

Leptin Resistance:

  • Leptin increases FA oxidation in skeletal muscle of lean, but not obese humans, thus demonstrating the development of peripheral leptin resistance in obese human skeletal muscle. (Steinberg and others 2002; Van Heek and others 1997)

  • In obesity leptin receptors and subsequent signaling events are down-regulated and basal insulin signaling is impaired (Brabant and others 2005)

  • Hyperleptinemia correlates with hyperphagia, insulin resistance and other markers of the metabolic syndrome including obesity, hyperlipidemia and hypertension, independent of total adiposity. Elevated plasma leptin levels may be an independent risk factor for the development of cardiovascular disease. (Ren 2004)

  • Chronic fructose consumption induces leptin resistance prior to body weight, adiposity, serum leptin, insulin, or glucose increases, and this fructose-induced leptin resistance accelerates high- fat induced obesity.(Shapiro and others 2008)

  • Triglycerides are an important cause of leptin resistance as mediated by impaired transport across the BBB. Decreasing trigs may potentiate the anorectic effect of leptin by enhancing leptin transport across the BBB. (Banks and others 2004)

  • NPY neurons are a major target for leptin action and partly explain the hyperphagia seen when leptin signalling is defective, and the accompanying decrease in energy expenditure (Wilding 2002)

  • In most overweight individuals, physiological regulation of body weight by leptin seems to be disturbed, representing ???leptin resistance.??? This leptin resistance at the level of the pancreatic B-cell may contribute to dysregulation of the adipo-insular axis and promote the development of hyperinsulinemia and manifest type 2 diabetes in overweight patients. (Seufert 2004)

Brain

  • Leptin increases hypothalamic mTOR activity, and the inhibition of mTOR signaling blunts leptin???s anorectic effect. Thus, mTOR is a cellular fuel sensor whose hypothalamic activity is directly tied to the regulation of energy intake.(Cota and others 2006)

  • Ghrelin appears to block leptin action (Wilding 2002)

  • Leptin can rescue normal pulsatile GH secretion by preventing the inhibitory action of NPY on GH secretion. (Vuagnat and others 1998)

  • NPY/AgRP neurons are inhibited by leptin, insulin and PYY, whereas they are stimulated by ghrelin (Morton and others 2006)

  • Obese have more AgRP than non-obese (Katsuki and others 2001)

  • Agouti inhibits the anorexic effects of leptin, up-regulates adipocyte leptin expression, and regulates adipocyte lipid metabolism, functioning both to increase the expression and activity of lipogenic genes and to inhibit lipolysis. (Zemel 1998)

  • Agouti increases leptin synthesis and secretion.(Claycombe and others 2000)

  • Insulin resistance upregulates cholesterol synthesis (Gylling and others 2010)

Energy Regulation

  • UCP3 is a mediator of thermogenesis; prevents excess fatty acids from accumulating in the mitochondrial matrix regulated by thyroid and leptin (Gong and others 1997)

Atkinson LL, Fischer MA & Lopaschuk GD. 2002. Leptin activates cardiac fatty acid oxidation independent of changes in the AMP-activated protein kinase-acetyl-CoA carboxylase-malonyl-CoA axis. J Biol Chem 277(33):29424-29430.

Banks WA, Coon AB, Robinson SM, Moinuddin A, Shultz JM, Nakaoke R & Morley JE. 2004. Triglycerides induce leptin resistance at the blood-brain barrier. Diabetes 53(5):1253-1260.

Bouloumie A, Marumo T, Lafontan M & Busse R. 1999. Leptin induces oxidative stress in human endothelial cells. Faseb J 13(10):1231-1238.

Brabant G, Muller G, Horn R, Anderwald C, Roden M & Nave H. 2005. Hepatic leptin signaling in obesity. Faseb J 19(8):1048-1050.

Casabiell X, Pineiro V, Vega F, De La Cruz LF, Dieguez C & Casanueva FF. 2001. Leptin, reproduction and sex steroids. Pituitary 4(1-2):93-99.

Ceddia RB, Lopes G, Souza HM, Borba-Murad GR, William WN, Jr., Bazotte RB & Curi R. 1999. Acute effects of leptin on glucose metabolism of in situ rat perfused livers and isolated hepatocytes. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 23(11):1207-1212.

Ceddia RB, William WN, Jr., Lima FB & Curi R. 1998. Leptin inhibits insulin-stimulated incorporation of glucose into lipids and stimulates glucose decarboxylation in isolated rat adipocytes. J Endocrinol 158(3):R7-9.

Claycombe KJ, Xue BZ, Mynatt RL, Zemel MB & Moustaid-Moussa N. 2000. Regulation of leptin by agouti. Physiol Genomics 2(3):101-105.

Cota D, Proulx K, Smith KA, Kozma SC, Thomas G, Woods SC & Seeley RJ. 2006. Hypothalamic mTOR signaling regulates food intake. Science 312(5775):927-930.

Faggioni R, Feingold KR & Grunfeld C. 2001. Leptin regulation of the immune response and the immunodeficiency of malnutrition. Faseb J 15(14):2565-2571.

Gong DW, He Y, Karas M & Reitman M. 1997. Uncoupling protein-3 is a mediator of thermogenesis regulated by thyroid hormone, beta3-adrenergic agonists, and leptin. J Biol Chem 272(39):24129-24132.

Gualillo O, Eiras S, Lago F, Dieguez C & Casanueva FF. 2000. Elevated serum leptin concentrations induced by experimental acute inflammation. Life Sci 67(20):2433-2441.

Guo F, Bakal K, Minokoshi Y & Hollenberg AN. 2004. Leptin signaling targets the thyrotropin-releasing hormone gene promoter in vivo. Endocrinology 145(5):2221-2227.

Gylling H, Hallikainen M, Pihlajamaki J, Simonen P, Kuusisto J, Laakso M & Miettinen TA. 2010. Insulin sensitivity regulates cholesterol metabolism to a greater extent than obesity: lessons from the METSIM Study. J Lipid Res 51(8):2422-2427.

Imbeault P, Doucet E, Mauriege P, St-Pierre S, Couillard C, Almeras N, Despres JP & Tremblay A. 2001. Difference in leptin response to a high-fat meal between lean and obese men. Clin Sci (Lond) 101(4):359-365.

Isozaki O, Tsushima, T., Miyakawa, M., Demura, H., Seki, H. 1999. Interaction between leptin and growth hormone (GH)/IGF-I axis. Endocr J. 46(Suppl):S17-24.

Katsuki A, Sumida Y, Gabazza EC, Murashima S, Tanaka T, Furuta M, Araki-Sasaki R, Hori Y, Nakatani K, Yano Y & Adachi Y. 2001. Plasma levels of agouti-related protein are increased in obese men. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 86(5):1921-1924.

Kawai K, Sugimoto K, Nakashima K, Miura H & Ninomiya Y. 2000. Leptin as a modulator of sweet taste sensitivities in mice. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 97(20):11044-11049. Kieffer TJ, Heller RS, Leech CA, Holz GG & Habener JF. 1997. Leptin suppression of insulin secretion by the activation of ATP-sensitive K+ channels in pancreatic beta-cells. Diabetes 46(6):1087-1093.

Kim HH, Lee S, Jeon TY, Son HC, Kim YJ & Sim MS. 2004. Post-prandial plasma ghrelin levels in people with different breakfast hours. European Journal of Clinical Nutrition 58(4):692-695.

Lam NT, Cheung AT, Riedel MJ, Light PE, Cheeseman CI & Kieffer TJ. 2004. Leptin reduces glucose transport and cellular ATP levels in INS-1 beta-cells. J Mol Endocrinol 32(2):415-424.

Menendez C, Lage M, Peino R, Baldelli R, Concheiro P, Dieguez C & Casanueva FF. 2001. Retinoic acid and vitamin D(3) powerfully inhibit in vitro leptin secretion by human adipose tissue. J Endocrinol 170(2):425-431.

Morton GJ, Cummings DE, Baskin DG, Barsh GS & Schwartz MW. 2006. Central nervous system control of food intake and body weight. Nature 443(7109):289-295.

Ogura T, Tobe K, Mimura Y, Otsuka F, Yamauchi T, Imai A, Tsukamoto C, Iwasaki Y & Matsuura K. 2000. Testosterone modulates serum leptin concentrations in a male patient with hypothalamic hypogonadism. J Endocrinol Invest 23(4):246-250.

Ren J. 2004. Leptin and hyperleptinemia - from friend to foe for cardiovascular function. J Endocrinol 181(1):1-10.

Schoeller DA, Cella LK, Sinha MK & Caro JF. 1997. Entrainment of the diurnal rhythm of plasma leptin to meal timing. J Clin Invest 100(7):1882-1887.

Seufert J. 2004. Leptin effects on pancreatic beta-cell gene expression and function. Diabetes 53 Suppl 1:S152-158.

Shapiro A, Mu W, Roncal C, Cheng KY, Johnson RJ & Scarpace PJ. 2008. Fructose-induced leptin resistance exacerbates weight gain in response to subsequent high-fat feeding. Am J Physiol Regul Integr Comp Physiol 295(5):R1370-1375.

Shigemura N, Ohta R, Kusakabe Y, Miura H, Hino A, Koyano K, Nakashima K & Ninomiya Y. 2004. Leptin modulates behavioral responses to sweet substances by influencing peripheral taste structures. Endocrinology 145(2):839-847.

Soderberg S, Olsson T, Eliasson M, Johnson O, Brismar K, Carlstrom K & Ahren B. 2001. A strong association between biologically active testosterone and leptin in non-obese men and women is lost with increasing (central) adiposity. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 25(1):98-105.

Steinberg GR, Parolin ML, Heigenhauser GJ & Dyck DJ. 2002. Leptin increases FA oxidation in lean but not obese human skeletal muscle: evidence of peripheral leptin resistance. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 283(1):E187-192.

Szucs N, Varga I, Jakab C, Patocs A, Glaz E, Toth M, Kiss R & Racz K. 2001. Leptin inhibits cortisol and corticosterone secretion in pathologic human adrenocortical cells. Pituitary 4(1-2):71-77.

Teff KL, Elliott SS, Tschop M, Kieffer TJ, Rader D, Heiman M, Townsend RR, Keim NL, D'Alessio D & Havel PJ. 2004. Dietary fructose reduces circulating insulin and leptin, attenuates postprandial suppression of ghrelin, and increases triglycerides in women. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 89(6):2963-2972.

Van Heek M, Compton DS, France CF, Tedesco RP, Fawzi AB, Graziano MP, Sybertz EJ, Strader CD & Davis HR, Jr. 1997. Diet-induced obese mice develop peripheral, but not central, resistance to leptin. J Clin Invest 99(3):385-390.

VanPatten S, Ranginani N, Shefer S, Nguyen LB, Rossetti L & Cohen DE. 2001. Impaired biliary lipid secretion in obese Zucker rats: leptin promotes hepatic cholesterol clearance. Am J Physiol Gastrointest Liver Physiol 281(2):G393-404.

Vuagnat BA, Pierroz DD, Lalaoui M, Englaro P, Pralong FP, Blum WF & Aubert ML. 1998. Evidence for a leptin-neuropeptide Y axis for the regulation of growth hormone secretion in the rat. Neuroendocrinology 67(5):291-300.

Walder K, Filippis A, Clark S, Zimmet P & Collier GR. 1997. Leptin inhibits insulin binding in isolated rat adipocytes. J Endocrinol 155(3):R5-7.

Wilding JP. 2002. Neuropeptides and appetite control. Diabet Med 19(8):619-627. Zemel MB. 1998. Agouti/melanocortin interactions with leptin pathways in obesity. Nutrition Reviews 56(9):271-274.

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638 · November 06, 2011 at 7:19 PM

In a discussion about the medical field, Dr. Kruse suggested I not be passive when it comes to my health care, be aggressive, and ask for what it is I really want. He was right about that.

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8979 · November 13, 2011 at 7:16 PM

then again, some people can't afford to buy a vowel

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25467 · November 06, 2011 at 9:53 PM

Too many people settle for a F,D,C, and a B when an A is available.

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4620 · November 05, 2011 at 2:32 PM

Quilt on turmeric:

"Turmeric should be in the water supply in my view."

Plus one...

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345 · January 01, 2012 at 11:22 PM

I never saw this quote but I think that it is prophetic. As would anyone who is intimately familiar with the astonishing positive attributes of this spice.

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8979 · November 13, 2011 at 7:16 PM

I am certain that Quilty doesn't get his K2 from natto!

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3703 · November 10, 2011 at 3:53 AM

haaa! AH! I think my favorite Quilt-ism is on natto and how it is like a horse's *ss and since it is good for longevity.... he does *ss

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3703 · November 10, 2011 at 3:52 AM

*haaa! AH!* I think my favorite Quilt-ism is on natto and how it is like a horse's *ss and since it is good for longevity....

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15976 · November 06, 2011 at 7:06 PM

It's his silly comments like the one you site that make doctors, scientists, and legitimate thinkers laugh at us

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19220 · November 05, 2011 at 4:05 PM

Everything in the world would be stained yellow :)

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1880 · November 02, 2011 at 10:56 PM

@ Quilt above

Funny? Not really given our nipple phobic society. Women are the worst. Check out all the fashion "experts" gals listen to who say you must wear a bra. Tatas must be uplifted for a more "flattering look." How come these same experts don't push bras on all the estogenifed men waddling with breasts...or maybe single cup bras for beer bellies. No, this wouldn't happen because men would tell them to f off. But women -- oh, we bitch and moan about oppression yet line up like mindless sheep to purchase whatever Madison Avenue says will "fix" us. All one has to do is look at the suit of armor type bras people wear nowadays to see we are sexually conflicted. On the one hand "hook-ups" (aka one night stands) are de rigour -- but yet women wear suit of armour padded or these weird hard cup bras to conceal their nipple erections. We are inundated with in your face porn and yet people are scared of freaking female nipples. I know men who love strip joints but get all purile if confronted with a woman breastfeeding in public. But seriously, women are the worst. They are the first to say -- "you need a bra" or "put on a bra" - - that's how conditioned they are to be ashamed of their own sex's anatomy. First corsets, now suit of armour bras. Some things never change...oh, except now padded bras are now being marketed to 5 year olds...Don't get me started on what constant contact with toxic chemical fake material bras worn all day and some even wear them all night too could do to health of breast tissue over time. If someone wants to wear a bra -- some big boobed gals get back/shoulder issues without a bra -- fine -- but it should be a personal choice -- not dictated by our nipple phobic society. Rant over. Need an oxytocin hit to calm down now...

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19220 · November 03, 2011 at 2:24 AM

Alexandra, Seriously I agree with your rant. I also find it all very strange and not a healthy attitude.

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19220 · November 03, 2011 at 2:22 AM

Melissa, that is very bizarre. However, you can't go around letting people know you have nipples. Children might see! :)

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56616 · November 03, 2011 at 12:52 AM

I worked a co-op shift once with a girl whose MAIN JOB was editing out nipples in Maxim!!! So the other stuff is OK, but not the nipples?

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15226 · November 06, 2011 at 4:20 PM

I think he's right about a whole lot more than he's wrong about. As mentioned above, you have to actually do your own research on the statements he makes but that's not a bad thing.

For example, what he wrote about uncoupling proteins and fat burning really interested me. There are TONS of articles on it, if I really wanna understand it I need to do my homework.

http://www.jbc.org/content/272/39/24129.full

http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=%2FPNS%2FPNS63_02%2FS0029665104000382a.pdf&code=52f4669b01a60ed0417e3dfa463249ff

http://www.jssm.org/vol4/n2/10/v4n2-10pdf.pdf

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0001397

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3703 · November 10, 2011 at 3:46 AM

Isn't it funner to find out on some self volition sometimes?

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569 · November 05, 2011 at 11:04 AM

In my opinion, the two things that Dr.K is mostly right about and should be emphasized are these:

1 Even strict Paleos need extensive lab testing

Paleo is great and is by far the best approach to diet and life, however, what people should realize is that MOST of us are seriously damaged and Paleo will not be enough. Our parents made poor dietary choices, their parents did do, and etc. We did for a big portion of our lives as well. We cannot expect that by simply being strict Paleo, all these years of damage can be reversed for all of us. It might work for some lucky Paleos, however, most of us have specific health or genetic issues that need to be identified and addressed by supplementation. The only reliable way to identify and improve these issues is through extensive lab testing and a knowledgeable doctor. There is no universal diet that will cure everyone and the Paleo approach needs to be tweaked for the people that have less stellar results.

http://jackkruse.com/what-are-the-optimizing-labs/

2 The medical profession needs to change

This idea of his is very significant. Treating symptoms and ignoring diet and lifestyle choices is killing people. This needs to be addressed. Doctors need to be more knowledgeable about nutrition and how it is reflected in the lab results of their patients.

http://jackkruse.com/changing-your-doctor-changing-your-life-changing-your-weight-changing-your-mind/

http://jackkruse.com/we-need-your-input-for-2012-ahs-conference/

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3703 · November 10, 2011 at 3:51 AM

Excellent AsianGrok! You're getting early paleo med training...

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3703 · November 10, 2011 at 3:51 AM

"Treating symptoms and ignoring diet and lifestyle choices is killing people. " Well said tempomat!

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1074 · November 07, 2011 at 4:10 AM

I'm a med student and POINT 2 is extremely hard to implement. This is a sentiment common among health-conscious Paleo-ers and fitness buffs but not a common idea among doctors nor the average patients. cut Dr. K some slack PLEASE and understand the man is doing much more good than bad. most surgeons are both wrong about health AND arrogant about their methods

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3891 · November 06, 2011 at 9:14 PM

I agree, especially with point #2.

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15976 · November 06, 2011 at 7:09 PM

Carbsane, this is getting serious now - I find myself agreein with you all the time! Seriously though, I wholly agree. Though I don't see doctors regularly and do indeed think that muh of what they will prescribe is not wise, when I have seen docs brought it my life theyve always advocated lifestyle changes *before* medicating too. They may not know th best lifestyle changes to actually make but theyve never told me to *just take these pills*.

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8879 · November 06, 2011 at 5:13 PM

Honestly, I don't know about you, but my and my husband's doctors have always advised lifestyle changes first. Now if you don't agree with the advice, that's one thing, but the vast majority of the medical profession I've had dealings with (mostly for hubby) and know personally (many college friends are MD's now) aren't the non-caring dolts everyone makes them out to be. Part of that is the patient -- Doc, I can't do XYZ. Can you give me a pill? Heck, Kruse thinks that's the solution for smoking -- Chantix all around everyone!

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332 · November 06, 2011 at 12:54 AM

+2 if I could, so +1

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2565 · November 02, 2011 at 8:46 PM

The disagreements I'm seeing with Dr. Kruse so far don't appear to have any substance or specificity to them. I don't think he's vague at all, his explanations and recommended treatments of the many kinds of diseases are very specific. He may answer questions sometimes by saying he can't give you a specific answer to your question without seeing all lab results for you, which is what I'd say if I was a doctor with my own blog many times because you can't be everyone's personal doctor simply by them asking a question. What you can do is give them as much info as possible to lead them in the right direction. Doctors should be all about empowering patients through self-knowledge. Making too many specific recommendations for people you don't know about their health problems isn't doing that, rather it's closer to doing what doctors in the conventional system do, which is creating a state of dependency on the doctor and looking to him for all of your answers. As Hippocrates said, "Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food." This means take responsibility for your health by changing your diet until you find the diet that allows you to be the healthiest. Then, if you still have some problems, ask a doctor for feedback. Disagreement within the scientific and medical community is healthy and necessary, so if we have things that we don't agree with Dr. Kruse about, state them clearly so we can discuss them and attempt to arrive at the truth on the subject. There's always room for debate about science, but so far I don't see that happening regarding Dr. Kruse's arguments on every topic. No one person including Dr. Kruse has all the answers, last time I checked there's only one God, but the more open minded we are and willing to admit when our idea or opinion is wrong, the more chances we have of finding the truth. Dr. Kruse's main argument as I understand it is that leptin is one of the master energy controls in the body, and is needed for the mitochondria to convert food to energy in the form of heat. When we have a standard American diet high in sugar and other neolithic agents of disease from various sources, we develop leptin resistance, which impacts all other systems of the body. Focusing on the gut, as Dr. Kruse also does, is also crucial because without absorbing nutrients from our food and protecting the inside of our body from the outside world, everything else begins to fall apart. I see nothing wrong with this approach to medicine. I'll sum up my comments with this quote: "Criticism is necessary and useful; it is often indispensable; but it can never take the place of action, or be even a poor substitute for it. The function of the mere critic is of very subordinate usefulness. It is the doer of deeds who actually counts in the battle for life, and not the man who looks on and says how the fight ought to be fought, without himself sharing the stress and the danger." -Theodore Roosevelt Also, read his famous "man in the arena quote", I think it's very relevant here.

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56616 · November 03, 2011 at 12:53 AM

Quilt please refrain from insulting the mods. I assure you Patrik is on your side.

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 9:32 PM

Dude this is at its core precisely what i believe and because you have deciphered it means even with all my bad ass grammar and spelling and fat fingers. It means i am getting itnthru contrary to patrik claim that im a total shit at communicating. Plus one!

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78422 · November 02, 2011 at 8:48 PM

Let me repeat. This guy is an MD.How many MD's have the balls to throw a finger at their own Mafia-like organization? If he's wrong 50% of the time, he's 47% more correct than the rest of his medical brethren. He is risking a lot. The AMA will try to get him. Think about it. No one will have his back in a malpractice suit. He'll have to become a personal trainer , or nutritional consultant like myself. :) ( Google: Sarah Myhill MD U.K) They took her license away for a while. (Google: Tony Soprano )

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1074 · November 07, 2011 at 4:12 AM

Seriously, no one appreciates that Quilt is putting his neck on the line and offering his clinical experience here for the Paleo community on a DAILY BASIS. oh but its so easy to be a critic.

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 9:37 PM

Mafia like? I dont think the AMA is that smart. I think you just insulted the Mafia. You might be careful.

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8879 · November 02, 2011 at 4:21 PM

This is an almost impossible question to answer. Why? Because Jack, himself, says very little directly about leptin. What you're asking people to do, essentially, is research for Jack if following his protocol actually improves leptin resistance, as quantified by more than just nebulous criteria like craving sweets from 1:15-2:39pm on alternate Sundays of odd numbered months.

Has Jack ever published his litany of test results and gone all Ned Kock on them to show where he comes up with the epigenetic switch he's flipped or needs to or whatever?

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1074 · November 09, 2011 at 12:45 PM

Dr. Kruse's last several blog entries have been pretty much spelling/grammar error free. so lets not hear anymore grammar policing

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11986 · November 05, 2011 at 3:45 AM

Well, thank goodness that at age 44 I finally developed some willpower and some ability to control my gluttony. Sure, I also went on a VLC diet right at that time, but that's just a coincidence.

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8979 · November 05, 2011 at 12:34 AM

lots of people don't want to hear BS either

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8879 · November 03, 2011 at 5:03 PM

cont. Bottom line ... we don't always agree, though moreso of late as we both stepped back (or maybe ascended to 30,000 feet) to see the big picture/context. It seems to me that those who don't like what Kurt says (as opposed to how he says it) are those who avoid being told the straight truth. I think we have that in common, b/c lots of people don't want to hear that they had any part in their situation or in doing what's needed to rectify it.

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8879 · November 03, 2011 at 5:01 PM

Kurt has commented on my blog to the effect of recognizing that obesity can be attained through good old garden variety gluttony (I agree) and/or eating for other than food-as-fuel reasons (e.g. comfort foods, fast foods). He hasn't elaborated much on eating disorders but states the obvious that, for many, obesity IS an eating disorder (as is yo-yo dieting IMO). ... to be cont.

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8979 · November 03, 2011 at 1:29 AM

Paleo is advertised as being the weight loss solution for everyone. Harris does not make a distinction between fat people who follow a careful diet and fat people who eat SAD.

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2861 · November 02, 2011 at 10:35 PM

I guess I haven't really seen Dr. Harris talk about weight loss much. He has made statements that too many people are addicted to modern life to do what it takes to lose weight, but I don't see that directed at low-carbers or people on stalls. I think it was just a general statement about modern society. I do think many people are going to be very disappointed if they think they are going to lose all the weight they want by just going Paleo. I see Paleo being more about health. For weight loss, you have to do whatever works, and that can vary greatly from person to person.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 9:25 PM

..and unfortunately, some of Quilty's hangers-on-ers are starting to say similar things. Like if it isn't working yet, to free your mind or something like that. DrK has clarified his stance recently. Like, people aren't doing it wrong, they just aren't doing enough or it takes longer for some.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 9:22 PM

Even Robb Wolf says that if people don't lose weight on his program, then they are doing it wrong. I really think its just all about a bunch of men, using a male hormonal model for the standard for everyone, and then blaming and down-voting people who work differently.

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 9:17 PM

I talk to people who stuggle.......i have open comments. I like problems. Eating paleo alone only works for SOME. To know that you need to practice medicine or read any paleo forum. We Have a duty to help those who struggle. I really dont need to help the rest because their epigenetics and leptin receptor work well. Even robb wolf helps those who struggle......so does sisson. When you piss on the struggling its an incongruent message. To make change we need to help up the worse of us. We are only as good as our weakest link.

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11986 · November 02, 2011 at 9:03 PM

Loon, I'm not a leptin reset person, but thank you for the brief summary of Harris's stance, above. It's quite amazing to me to watch the condescension all the way around about weight loss. Those for whom VLC did *not* work are told they did it wrong (or something) by successful VLCers, while those for whom it *did* work are told by higher-carb eaters that we shouldn't *have* to be VLC, and that we're doing something wrong if that's where we are. A pox on the lot of 'em.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 8:39 PM

He is not very popular with low carbers with resistant weight loss problems because of his stance on carbs and the reasons for their lack of weight loss. He has been condescending to people in this situation, implying that their stalls are due to willpower, or just eating crap. Dr. Kruse has a more friendly approach to these people. Both are ruthless in arguing their point with other docs and researchers.

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2861 · November 02, 2011 at 7:42 PM

Loon, why isn't Harris well respected among the Leptin Reset crowd?

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 7:07 PM

Harris is not well-respected in the crowd that has been helped the most by the leptin reset. But, kudo's to him for editing.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 7:03 PM

No, I am not against ethics boards, but it does seem that Guyenet was silenced about something that is outside of his current job and Kruse isn't. As a result, Kruse has about half a million hits on the leptin reset thread on MDA and Guyenet has an N=2.

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2861 · November 02, 2011 at 6:29 PM

@Loon, I don't think the WRONG GUY thing works; look at Kurt Harris. He is not a researcher but is well respected here and other Paleo blogs. Quilt just makes all these off-the-cuff remarks that are proven wrong so much that he appears scatterbrained and untrustworthy. He said that Kurt Harris's starch advice was "madness" then backtracked and said it was his cancer advice that was madness. But there was no cancer advice. "Madness" seems rather extreme word to be throwing around at phantoms. It just doesn't seem worth the effort to fact-check someone like this.

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8879 · November 02, 2011 at 6:08 PM

I think that's a huge plus for Kurt -- he corrects his (much less frequent) mistakes. I don't think a spell checker is responsible for Jack's horrible writings. My mini computer is not much bigger than an iPad or whatever ... I have no problems typing out words coherently on it. If technology is failing you, replace the technology. He is doing himself no favors by carrying on as he is now. As to the institution, OK, but would you prefer they didn't have ethics boards to scrutinize the studies conducted in their names? The flipside is that you CAN hold the final products up to scrutiny.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 5:56 PM

Jack's big language problem is that he seems to be relying on the spell-corrector of his tablet. Harris seems to have the problem from time to time, too, though he seems to make more apologies about it.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 5:52 PM

@Sane, I am referring to Guyenet's bosses who pulled the plug on his proposed food reward experiment because he works at some university. The university is the zoo, and Guyenet is the animal in the cage. It was not meant as an attack on a person, but as an attack of an institution.

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8879 · November 02, 2011 at 5:48 PM

@loon cont. Really I DO understand -- I'm not the most concise blogger out there and I'm rather prolific so attention to proofing is not high on my priority list. Things slip through, just exponentially moreso in Jack's offerings. Speaking of personal attacks ... Zookeepers? Come on. Jack's n=2000 is also far, FAR, away from any accountability, period!

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8879 · November 02, 2011 at 5:42 PM

@Loon: I do not know your degree of education, but to have an MD and DDS, and the prerequisite BS, being from NYC, with English as his primary language, he should darned well care enough about his spelling and grammar. Really, even going to an eng school as I did, my electives professors still insisted on coherent writing. Some slack is given to most in this medium, but his writings are downright awful. That he doesn't seem to care to improve that is more telling in my opinion. Posts here are one thing, but he even has typos on his Quilt on his blog!!

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 5:39 PM

...and now we have a situation where Guyenet has been silenced by his own zookeepers, meanwhile, Dr. K has been creating his own n=2000 on the internet, far away from the tentacles of the ethics board.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 5:35 PM

@thhq, I stand behind my statement. I think the personal attacks here are all out of proportion to the offenses. What is really boils down to is, he's a guy who thinks he has all the answers, but he is THE WRONG GUY! That guy was supposed to be from research. That guy was supposed to be able to care about the difference between your and you're.

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10176 · November 02, 2011 at 5:28 PM

Well loon, maybe PAY is too strong. I'd settle for "explain clearly in one sentence".

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 5:22 PM

@Eric, yes, I think Quilt decided to do an end-run around the researchers, the medical establishment, and even the paleo experts, and for that HE MUST PAY!!!

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5002 · November 02, 2011 at 5:04 PM

I think a major problem here is that people are divorced from the norms and practices of academia. Preparing a scholarly article for a peer reviewed journal is a high-effort endeavor with high entry costs. Practicing medicine and collecting data are two very different activities. For these reasons, I think that a blog is an appropriate format for what Dr K is trying to do.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 5:01 PM

@sane, "in Taubes defense"??????? Can't believe we have that in print.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 5:00 PM

@dex I don't think that carbsane is the same person as itsthewoo2.

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13692 · November 02, 2011 at 4:56 PM

"In Taubes' defense"...now I have seen everything. That's it. I need to leave the Bizarro Internet that my computer is apparently tethered to and return to the world as I used to know it :-)

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8879 · November 02, 2011 at 4:48 PM

Loon, I think this is different compared to Taubes. In Taubes' defense (eek!), I don't think his personal numbers mattered much *UNTIL* he came out with WWGF as a "diet book" and mentioned following the program. Taubes just fails on his misstated "facts". Kruse says his own extensive testing and analyses is how he developed his program. In that regard, he probably should publish it based on that alone. But in lieu of that, how about get XYZ tests, if they are ABC, do the reset and look for PDQ. QED ;-)

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8879 · November 02, 2011 at 4:44 PM

Ummm... Dextery I think you have me confused with somewoon else? My neurons are functioning very well thankyouverymuch.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 4:42 PM

As far as I know, he has not gone totally "Ned Kock" on his own personal tests, but that has not been necessary for others. Dr. Oz forced Taubes' hand on the vap test, but I don't know if Guyenet was required to provide his test results in order to be taken seriously by some.

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1054 · November 02, 2011 at 4:41 PM

Evelyn, why don't you just give it up and go back to Amgen. You dislike the doc because he doesn't live in your world of proving what you hold near and dear to your heart. You can't change that your neurons are burnt and will never be normal.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 4:40 PM

This question is absolutely possible to answer, it is just that so far, no serious bites.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 4:39 PM

You are right, that is what I am asking. I am not the person who said Quilt's stuff is 100% bunk. Surely in all the stuff he has posted, he must have gotten something right, even if it was only accidental.

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1059 · November 05, 2011 at 7:47 PM

Dr. K is a big proponent of bioidentical hormones for postmenopausal women with signs of osteopenia or osteoporosis. The question I have is whether the osteopenia/osteoporosis can be prevented by switching to a paleo diet.

Bone Density/Osteoporosis

Christiansen, C, Riis BJ, Nilas L, Rodbro P, "Uncoupling of bone formation and resorption by combined oestrogen and progestagen therapy in postmenopausal osteoporosis," Lancet 12 October 1985:800-801.

Cummings SR, Mevitt MC, Browner WS et al for the Study of Osteoporotic Fractures Research Group, "Risk Factors for Hip Fracture in White Women," N Engl J Med 1995;332:767-73.

Dargent-Molina P, Favier F, Grandjean H, Baudoin C, Schott AM, Hausherr E, Meunier PJ, Br art G, for the EPIDOS Group, "Fall-related factors and risk of hip fracture: the EPIDOS prospective study," Lancet 1996; 348: 145-49.

Dempster DW, Lindsay R, "Pathogenesis of osteoporosis," Lancet 1993; 341:797-801.

Hoskins D, Chilvers CED, et al, "Prevention of bone loss with alendronate iin postmenopausal women under 60 years of age," NEJM 1998; 338:485-492.

Ojasoo T, "Affiliations among steroid receptors as revealed by multivariate analysis of steroid binding data," J Steroid Biochem Molec Biol 1994; 48:31-46.

Prior JC, "Progesterone as a Bone-Trophic Hormone," Endocrine Reviews 1990; 11:386-398.

Tamoxifen Studies

The Lancet 11 July 1998; 352: 80-81, 93-97, 98-101, Editorial by Kathleen I. Pritchard, U. of Toronto, Ontario.

Powles T, Eeles R, Ashley S, Easton D, et al, "Interim analysis of the incidence of breast cancer in the Royal Marsden Hospital tamoxifen randomized chemoprevention trial," Lancet 1998; 352: 98-101.

Veronesi U, Maisonneuve P, Costa A, Sacchini V, et al, "Prevention of breast cancer with tamoxifen: preliminary findings from the Italian randomized trial among hysterectomized women," Lancet 1998;352:93-97.

Estrogen Supplementation

Cummings SR, et al, "Endogenous hormones and the risk of hip and vertebral fractures among older women," NEJM, 10 Sept 1998; 339: 733-738.

Hulley S, et al, "Randomized trial of estrogen plus progestin for secondary prevention of coronary heart disease in postmenopausal women," JAMA, 19 August 1998; 280: 605-613.

Prior JC, "Perimenopause: the complex endocrinology of the menopausal transition," Endocrine Reviews 1998; 19(4):397-426.

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37187 · November 05, 2011 at 8:02 PM

This might be a good question for a new thread; this one's SO LONG.

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1880 · November 02, 2011 at 5:09 PM

He's right about nipple stimulation and oxytocin's beneficial effects on the breast as well as entire body. Google it. Massage in general benefits the body and aids healing. Breast massage is prescribed in Asian medicine -- qigong massage comes to mind -- to alleviate breast cysts, lumps, pain. Massage is important therapy (not "woo") in Japan, Thailand, Korea, China etc. There is an association between breast-feeding and lower breast cancer risk which it's postulated is due to nipple stimulation. When those who have breast fed do get cancer, it's sometimes correlated with the breast not used predominantly for the breast feeding. Google it. Massage moves lymph fluid and reduces swelling. Don't knock it until you've tried it. Many perimenopausal, menopausal and post-menopausal complain that their sex drive is in the toilet. No orgasms, not oxytocin. Clitoral orgasm releases oxytocin and also help keep cervixs clear so tell your cavemen or cavepartners whatever the case may be to get busy or if you're flying solo -- at least masturbate. Lots of chicks are squeamish about masturbation. Get over it gals.

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8879 · November 06, 2011 at 5:09 PM

The problem is how you go from there being some support in the literature to the definitive numbers and assertions. Nipple massage WILL decrease cancer risk by **50%** ... that's the problem. Now many massages? How often? What levels of oxytocin are involved? etc.etc.

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19220 · November 02, 2011 at 11:10 PM

I looked.......

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 9:24 PM

Funny none of the critics even bothered to look. Its true. And the science i write about is highly cited and most are tied to nobel prize winners

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4764 · November 02, 2011 at 5:43 PM

It's generally believed that the risk reduction afforded by breastfeeding occurs via two mechanisms: (1) lower estrogen levels during breastfeeding (2) offloading of toxins from breast tissue. Massage (and oxytocin and orgasms) certainly impact physical and emotional well-being, no one would argue otherwise. At this point, however, it appears to be difficult to make the case that either massage or oxytocin or orgasm have a direct mechanism by which they can reduce cancer risk.

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121 · November 05, 2011 at 8:10 PM

The Quilt's ego will repel people who may need his ideas implemented in their lives. His arrogance keeps him from seeing the role he plays in this.

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17103 · November 12, 2011 at 11:23 PM

I've never picked up on "ego" coming from him. Bashing conventional "wisdom" when it deserves it, yes, but that's because it deserves it. He's a Doctor for Grok's sake, be thankful he's got the time to waste on us instead his paying patients. He may not know everything, he might not spell everything properly, but having him around to enlighten us is certainly well worth putting up with a bunch of quirks - something all of us have.

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11986 · November 06, 2011 at 4:54 PM

You know, this is one of the most interesting points in this whole Dr. K "controversy." Part of me understands that it's human nature to want a relationship with our healers, our medicine people -- it's an ancient role. But I also think that in this modern, impersonal age, we need to change our expectations a bit. All over this board, and other boards, I see people following advice because they find the personality of the adviser congenial, and arguing against people whose personality they dislike. It's understandable, but gets us no closer to physiological, scientific truth.

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121 · November 06, 2011 at 11:33 AM

But when your ego is so big, he becomes his greatest obstacle. I guess if people are desperate enough, they can learn to deal with his condescension and the harshness he so loves. That sounds unhealthy, almost codependent.

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1059 · November 06, 2011 at 12:34 AM

Hey, he can't help anybody who des not want to be helped. Their loss.

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3180 · November 02, 2011 at 6:07 PM

Over on Mark's Daily Apple, Dr. Kruse started posting a year or so ago, adding to other threads and answering people. Then he started talking about "The Quilt" and then someone started a thread http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread32345.html that has over 10,000 replies and 439,000 views since June 15, 2011. We refer to it as the 'Monster Thread'.

He now posts soley on the Monster Thread every day or two. Sometimes he completely ignores requests for info, sometimes he just throws stuff out there unsolicted. I know I just cruise through the pages looking for his replies as so many others are personal-journal type stuff from people doing the reset.

My impression is that he gives good advice and really does his homework. I think he is right on about the supplements he recommends, the testing he recommends, and the diet he recommends. His advice was the first I heard advocating different macros based on time of year/daylight, and that seems to work for me, too.

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 9:26 PM

No i dont. These are paleo failures that i want to bring back to our ship. I do it because of all the future failures will need a resource. Dexter has been a remarkable help there. Im a busy dude and he really is a great person for our community

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 6:39 PM

Currently, he doesn't seem to be directly responding to folks who post their numbers and ask for help.

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8979 · November 02, 2011 at 6:36 PM

I have found that he doesn't ignore much. There are a couple of people. Lots of times he doesn't have a direct or instant response, but you will find the answer in a new post, maybe a week or two later.

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1371 · November 02, 2011 at 4:52 PM

THE obvious he recommends is prolly a good idea but it has been said for decades

-eat high protein to lose weight & blunt appetite -cut crap carbs if your fat

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1074 · November 11, 2011 at 8:49 PM

besides all they do is count calories via an "IF calculator" that partitions macros and calories based on whether you "work out" that day or not. it's elite bro-science, thats the most accurate label.

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1074 · November 11, 2011 at 8:48 PM

LOL Martin Berkhan...he's a joke and a weightlifter turned wannabe brain. half the people on that site don't need him, IF just keeps them lean and fit which they already are. the other half are the fat/obese people who need an overhaul but his fasting only starves and worsens the leptin resistant, so they leave his site. So it would seem his followers are all success stories. its BS

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8979 · November 10, 2011 at 4:53 PM

No, Mallory, Martin Berkhan hasn't debunked it. He has found out what has worked for him, and so he has told others about it. His plan is a disaster for many who now are following the leptin reset successfully.

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1371 · November 08, 2011 at 5:06 PM

hasnt martin berkhan debunked that one?

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1059 · November 07, 2011 at 1:40 PM

Nice way to simplify it Mallory. You ignore the more critical parts of Dr. K's recommendations which have to do with meal timing. These changes are focused on the circadian cycles. Also the suspension of exercise during the reset process.

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 10:21 PM

Macros and rewardmdont matter.....how we account for them is the ultimate arbiter. People try this and they are shocked at how it works. Im not selling my cure for obesity.....im open sourcing it. You do it it out and see if its full of shit. What is the risk? It does not work? Is this not what robb wolf said in his book? He did not get ass screwed saying it here. Its simple. You may not agree with it.....but 450000 hits at MDA says enough to me.

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25467 · November 02, 2011 at 10:18 PM

Of course it would....its been done in other areas of the brain somwe dont need to re do it. Some clowns on here need to read it. Once you understand this is a function of how the brain works then you hae to just come up with neural exercises that can bypass the leptin receptor. I did just that and that is how i fixed myself. It was easy. I ate a paleo diet doing it and i yoked it to the circadian cycles and drew my blood to see the hormonal response of the brain.....that response told me about my epigentic switches. Then inadjust my diet. This is why all the bullshit on diet is a waste

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5002 · November 02, 2011 at 4:59 PM

Sounds right. But he also has a pretty interesting take on how it should be timed, which based on ideas about rewiring unused but plastic regions of the brain that are capable of handling leptin signaling. It'd take a lot of expensive research to establish that. Undeniably, though, its intriguing and stimulating.

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