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Should We Be Demanding Recent Lipid Panels from the Various Diet Gurus?

by 39204 · March 29, 2013 at 01:13 PM

If we're handing them our money and/or risking our health by taking their advice, does it seem fair that they should post a recent lipid panel in good faith so we can at least have some grasp of the safety or efficacy of their approach?

Should we make this thread a repository of all of them? Please post a link to any you find or any gurus you think should be added to the list. If any of you correspond with these folks and agree with the importance of transparency, please request one.

Here are the ones I've found thus far:

Gary Taubes (3/11)
TC: 204
LDL: 116
HDL: 68
TGs: 64
Source: http://garytaubes.com/2011/04/before-sugar-were-talking-about-cholesterol/

Jimmy Mooore (1/13)
TC: 419
LDL: 332
HDL: 75
TGs: 60
Source: http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/jimmy-moores-n1-experiments-nutritional-ketosis-day-211-240/17390

Harley Johnstone (5/11)
TC: 186
LDL: 116
HDL: 58
TGs: 62
Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftbHme_Q5Gs

S. Boyd Eaton (~1/13)
TC: 171
LDL: 101
HDL: 61
TGs: 41
Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6ORzcIybag

Paul/Shou-Ching Jaminet (~5/12)
TC: Low 200s
LDL: 90-130
HDL: 60-100
TGs: ~50 Source: http://perfecthealthdiet.com/reader-results/comment-page-1/#comment-76742

Chris Kresser (2010)
TC: 213
LDL: 138
HDL: 61
TGs: 42
Source: http://vimeo.com/12515512

Stephan Guyenet (9/08)
TC: 252
LDL: 131
HDL: 111
TGs: 48
Fasting insulin: 2.3 uIU/mL
Fasting glucose: 88 mg/dL
HbA1c: 5.8%
Sources: http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/06/when-friedewald-attacks.html
http://wholehealthsources.blogspot.com/2008/09/few-numbers.html

Peter Attia(7/2011)
TC:
LDL: 59
HDL: 85
TGs: 81
Source: http://eatingacademy.com/how-low-carb-diet-reduced-my-risk-of-heart-disease

Mark Sisson
????

Robb Wolf
????

Dean Ornish
????

Ray Peat (Maybe Danny Roddy would be sufficient here?)
????

Petro Dobromylskyj
????

Nora Gedgaudas
????

Ron Rosedale
????

Michael Eades
????

William Davis
????

Martin Berkhan
????

Sally Fallon
????

Chris Masterjohn
????

Loren Cordain
????

Matt Stone
????

Robert Lustig
????

Mehmet Oz
????

Jack Kruse
????

Edit: I'm not a guru, have not and will never make a thin dime off of information that I believe should be free, and generally recommend things that are only a few degrees off of conventional, but to make this fair: http://i48.tinypic.com/2ry0xs4.jpg

Travis Culp
TC:190
LDL:98
HDL:84
TGs:39
Source:http://i48.tinypic.com/2ry0xs4.jpg

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11 Replies

532cfd279d793e8fcc23b9f6d91dde5c
7
1981 · ABOUT 18 HOURS AGO

I don't think we are entitled to the information, but if they chose to provide it, it certainly has the potential to be one more source of support for their various approaches.

800e726cb5dff569fd8edf604c3e2793
6
1659 · ABOUT 18 HOURS AGO

I a bit confused why would you care about some particular n=1? You should care about your own -- everyone is different.

And yes, some of the people mentioned would say that they don't care about their lipid numbers as long as other things (notably, inflammation) are fine.

And the risk of taking someone's advice is entirely your own.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7
4
25474 · ABOUT 18 HOURS AGO

Your question course assumes that cholesterol is a first order effect for heart disease. A claim that many of these "gurus" would reject. There is a correlation, but not a causal relationship -- at least not a first order causal relationship.

Perhaps inflammation is the first order effect. And high inflammation tied with cholesterol (or cholesterol is high due to high inflammation) is the concern with heart disease.

If some one came to you and said, "Grades are irrelevant to success" Would you ask them what their grades were or whether they were successful? Many of these "gurus" suggest that cholesterol is not the issue, inflammation and/or environmental/lifestyle factors (like smoking) put you at risk of heart disease.

I am not sure which side I sit on yet. I do know that switching to Paleo dropped my LDL and trigs, raised my HDL, and lowered my total cholesterol below 200 for the first time since I was 15. And I have a history of high cholesterol in my family. Like I have said before -- I don't need their numbers, I've got mine.

===============EDIT==================

For what it's worth:

Pre Paleo:
TC: 248
HDL: 60
LDL 168
Trigs: 100

One Year Post:
TC: 174
HDL: 85
LDL: 78
Trigs: 42

Trig/HDL ratio from 1.6 to .49
TC/HDL ratio from 4.1 to 2.04
LDL/HDL ratio from 2.8 to .91

Cbdc8318738324492f2d5918868ce4c9
3
1191 · ABOUT 18 HOURS AGO

Here's some additional data ...

Paul Jaminet (5/12)
TC: low 200s
LDL: 90-130
HDL: 60-100
TGs: ~50
Source: http://perfecthealthdiet.com/reader-results/comment-page-1/#comment-76742

Chris Kresser (2010)
TC: 213
LDL: 138
HDL: 61
TGs: 42
Source: http://vimeo.com/12515512
VAP; time: 6:20, user: The Healthy Skeptic
Noting that Chris has removed this posting from chriskresser.com and has been openly adjusting his view.

Stephan Guyenet (9/08)
TC: 252
LDL: 131
HDL: 111
TGs: 48
Fasting insulin: 2.3 uIU/mL
Fasting glucose: 88 mg/dL
HbA1c: 5.8%
Source: http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/06/when-friedewald-attacks.html
http://wholehealthsources.blogspot.com/2008/09/few-numbers.html
Second link is apparent blog copy, extra 's', of removed original "lipid panel" link confirms missing TC, HDL, and consistent with LDL calculations.

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6
3
11251 · ABOUT 18 HOURS AGO

No. This just plays into the bad people's hands. It is more self-promotion, even if it is bad. It is more traffic generation over something that is likely irrelevant. If they are making decent, informative posts, podcasts, etc... and showing some honesty and integrity, then I have something to work with, even if they are wrong about a thing or two.

The sociopaths could just straight up lie, and there isn't a way we could verify it.

Let the sociopaths out themselves on stuff we can verify.

Cbda678b2a6bf0537d8c4ea0ce8aa9ad
2
4232 · ABOUT 18 HOURS AGO

Demanding? No. but it does sound interesting.

Ca71bbbf420ac8abfad4c5185ecddf31
1
309 · ABOUT 18 HOURS AGO

So If a doctor was prescribing you viagra would you ask the doc about his erection quality? How about asking a fertility doctor why she has no children?

5dd50f78f47b8848d93724d6eb38d4c1
1
875 · ABOUT 18 HOURS AGO

I think so. If these people are advocating a diet that will give them a lipid panel that the vast majority of experts would consider to increase your chance of cardiovascular disease it would only seem right.

Then again, if I was jimmy moore there's no way i'd be releasing that kind of information while trying to promote a diet that caused it.

89fa2da4805b0b4e54b77a5a20a2e206
1
2094 · ABOUT 18 HOURS AGO

Good point ! and actually- we shouldnt have to demand it.. they should provide the proof behind the pudding in their books/blogs/sites without us even asking. Show us how following their own dietary recommendations altered and ameliroated their #'s.. dammit! :)

Grab your torches and lets go GETTEMMMMMMMMM! ..lol..

ive got mine numeros from last June after not having been to a doctor for checkup or tests for 16 years :) theyre in canadian metric or wutvr its called (:P (and they were fine phew!!!)

A97b68379a576dfa764a4828304d2efb
1
4145 · ABOUT 18 HOURS AGO

Yes. And if they disagree with a lipid panel as an indicator of health, then they should offer alternative evidence of good health. I truly appreciate all the free information that most of those folks offer, but it would be nice to know.

Harley Johnstone, huh? I can already hear his giddy My Little Pony laugh at being included in this. Now comes his confused trolling where he is half flattered and then shirtless and caving in on himself with rage.

4bc16f4181328acbdbb1dfbf0b77b25d
0
70 · March 29, 2013 at 11:26 AM

its interesting that 99% of them are guys...i think there may be a tie to what guys eat vs women...not in calories but in substance. dairy may be better for men than women. nuts may be better for women than men. the list could go on and on. i see many cultures love fish eggs for women, not so much catching or celebrating them for men. maybe the saturated fat and lipid argument holds a lot of ground, for males. maybe it does for women as well but i havent seen that exist outside of calories being a factor for women in improving lipids via saturated fat. aka, the lipids would probably improve if 'x' woman had eaten 'x' fat in nuts vs butter. And maybe coconut oil is different as where it would be located would likely be a prime source of fat for both men and women. i always look back at old school bodybuilding success stories, men love their saturated fat for muscle gains, eggs an dairy....women love their salmon and almonds for their oatmeal... just a thought. and the other half is most likely genetics from your grandparents in my opinion.

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