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organ meat extravaganza

by (78422)
Updated about 4 hours ago
Created May 08, 2011 at 8:42 PM

Hi all, I am wondering if I am over-consuming organ meats with an early grave on the horizon. Care to check out my diet and give some feedback:

Diet 

PWO #1 (1st MEAL):

Sea Salt(1 tsp.) Vitamin C(500 mg.), Vitamin D(800 i.u.) Shredded Coconut(300kcal worth) turmeric, cayenne, paprika, ginger powder, eggs(6 raw yolks, 6 cooked whites) garlic(bulb) parseley(sprig) bone(ground-20 grams)/eggshell(10 grams)

2nd MEAL:

Organ MEat Liver or Kidney(6-7 oz.) Gelatin(1-2 oz.) Butter(50-60 grams) Vitamin D 800 i.u.(depending on sun exposure)

3rd MEAL:

Tuna(can, yellowfin) Oil(cod liver oil/olive oil, usually cod) egg(1-2, 1-2 yolks raw, 1-2 whites cooked) "Coconut mix"(as above, 6 oz.) Onion/garlic bone(ground-20 grams)/1 eggshell(10 grams)

PWO #2 (4th MEAL):

organ meat Kidneys or Liver(7 oz.) coconut oil 1 tbsp Butter(50-60 grams) gelatin(1-2 oz.) cabbage Vitamin C(500 mg.), Vitamin D(400-800 i.u)

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107
15593 · May 12, 2011 at 2:37 PM

Yes, boiling/simmering ought to be at a lower temperature, and so should have an effect. Kidneys are the best non-liver offal in my opinion. Sweetbreads are also good, but a lot fattier (78:22 by calories) so you'd need to eat solely sweetbreads to get enough protein. Raw meat (and esp liver) is a contentious issue I won't adjudicate on. I guess liver with the outsides browned and the inside rare would be a good compromise though

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094
78422 · May 12, 2011 at 2:18 PM

David: would you know if preperation method(boiling, say) of meat reduces oxysterols? What organ meat would be a good substitute for liver to get a good nutrient profile with minimal detriments? I am looking for protein sources for a daily 30-40- gram serving(I order the items in bulk so it would have to be the same substance).

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094
78422 · May 12, 2011 at 2:12 PM

Thanks for the info David. Would you recommend eating the liver raw? Also, what other organ meat would you suggest if liver is to be reduced to a few days per week??

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107
15593 · May 09, 2011 at 5:43 PM

And re. cholesterol: heating anything with cholesterol in it. The higher the heat, the worse. http://sci.tech-archive.net/pdf/Archive/sci.med.nutrition/2008-02/msg00022.pdf

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107
15593 · May 09, 2011 at 5:41 PM

chicken liver every week, as a rough average, which is 8700IU or 7900IU per day respectively (about 1.5x the RDA). I step consumption up a bit in the summer when I get more (read: some) sun. http://journal.shouxi.net/qikan/article.php?id=173002 This paper suggests that remains of 'early' humans showed signs of bone damage from too much vitamin A. If your body can't naturally generate enough vitamin D (via sun) to keep in ideal A:D balance, I'd be cautious.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107
15593 · May 09, 2011 at 5:35 PM

My only suggestion would be to eat less liver. The butter, paprika and cabbage aren't worth worrying about- the butter because it's such a small amount, the other two because they're plant form vit-A. If it's lamb/beef liver, I think 7*28g*7=1.37kg is too much, 48,000IU per day/336000 a week. The CLO alone gives you 13,000IU. 10,000IU per day is the suggested upper limit, the lowest amount that has been found to cause damage is 21,000IU per day. I think you're unlikely to suffer overt toxicity at those levels, but you might suffer ill effects. I have 500g lamb liver every 2 weeks, or 500g...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094
78422 · May 09, 2011 at 3:26 PM

Hey David: could you explain why organ meat cholesterol woudl be subject to oxidization?(ie. what the conditions of oxidization are)?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094
78422 · May 09, 2011 at 2:34 PM

I have been boiling pig's feet, extracting the skin/meat/fat and using it seperately(for gelatin). After which I boil/simmer the bones until soft, then blend them in a blender until a paste, then freeze for storage and keep a supply in the fridge. I am a little concerned with excess calcium from that much bone though but...I based the dose off eggshell content(1 large shell=800mg. calcium). I assume that the other minerals in the bone/eggshell enable best absorption of the calcium. As to the sea salt(iodized) I have reduced it on the grounds of excretion of nutrients, etc(see "industrial salt'

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094
78422 · May 09, 2011 at 2:31 PM

Having researched kidney they seem to have little vitamin A which is why I have done the liver/kidney split(and to round out the nutritional profile/sources). I have never heard of Fitday but will investigate thanks.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094
78422 · May 09, 2011 at 2:30 PM

Thanks. My concern was with hypervitaminosis-A but I think 7 oz. per day can be accomodated. However I have been including a tbsp of cod liver oil and approx. 100 grams of butter as well as paprika and red cabbage so I am a little concerned with the vitamin A. Any advice?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094
78422 · May 09, 2011 at 2:28 PM

Explain why if you please(this is the purpose of my post to get feedback for health not judgements.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094
78422 · May 09, 2011 at 2:27 PM

Mainly I am concerned about vitamin overdose but no signs/symptoms have arisen as yet. The salt has been omitted as it seems to cause hunger pangs, the excretion of nutrients and deposits in the joints. Any ideas as to why this occurs(I have also posted a related topic on industrial salt with these questions).

05055dcbf12c81f1cce777ec365870af
1786 · May 09, 2011 at 5:09 AM

biochemically, you're going to find out on your own certainly.

Eeb593d6b6d7a939fdd5469b69347d5f
1037 · May 09, 2011 at 2:55 AM

What gave you a cause for concern? Have you read anything negative about eating a lot of organ meat?

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628
3631 · May 09, 2011 at 1:56 AM

I think you can skip it, or try just a pinch. Thumbs up on parsley tho. It's very cleansing and has loads of vitK. I can't comment on the organ meat.. but it seems a bit much. What happened to the pig-feet plan? Just wondering.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094
78422 · May 09, 2011 at 1:11 AM

could you explain biochemically(how it is unsound)? I don't have ready access to whole carcasses, etc. My resources are limited and must be acquired in bulk as I am living in the woods(and don't have the resources for hunting etc.).

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094
78422 · May 09, 2011 at 1:09 AM

I have only proposed the salt(PWO=post workout) but usually don't include it. Mainly for thyroid boosting.Too many organ meats? I have attempted to escape hyper-vitaminosis-A, etc. but am unsure.

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628
3631 · May 08, 2011 at 11:03 PM

why are you waking up to 1 tsp salt? seems unnecessary, and kind of A TON. mayhaps just sprinkle it to taste throughout the day? a novel idea, i know.

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628
3631 · May 08, 2011 at 11:02 PM

why are yo waking up to 1 tsp salt? seems unnecessary, and kind of A TON. mayhaps just sprinkle it to taste throughout the day? a novel idea, i know.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094
78422 · May 08, 2011 at 9:56 PM

Negative DudleyP. It rarely varies as I buy in large bulk quantities and have a finite amount of resources($) at the moment thus hamstringing my buying power. Also I live in the middle of NWOntario which is quite devoid of resources aside from trees and lakes and alcoholic miners/minors.

2f54dbe892ec89b12d1db686568e885a
919 · May 08, 2011 at 9:07 PM

presumably your diet varies from day to dayPersonMan?

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5 Answers

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3631 · May 08, 2011 at 10:59 PM

I think your diet is lacking. ...in deliciousness.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107
1
15593 · May 09, 2011 at 11:47 AM

I can't think of any reason not to eat lots of kidneys apart from possibly too much selenium over the long term and possibly too much (possibly oxidised) cholesterol. E Eating too much liver might be a problem solely insofar that you may get too much vitamin A. Eating chicken liver will allow you to eat more liver (less vitamin A). Also getting lots of vitamin D should reduce the toxicity risks of the vitamin A. I can't think of anything else to fear from 'offal' as a food category.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107
15593 · May 09, 2011 at 5:41 PM

chicken liver every week, as a rough average, which is 8700IU or 7900IU per day respectively (about 1.5x the RDA). I step consumption up a bit in the summer when I get more (read: some) sun. http://journal.shouxi.net/qikan/article.php?id=173002 This paper suggests that remains of 'early' humans showed signs of bone damage from too much vitamin A. If your body can't naturally generate enough vitamin D (via sun) to keep in ideal A:D balance, I'd be cautious.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094
78422 · May 09, 2011 at 2:30 PM

Thanks. My concern was with hypervitaminosis-A but I think 7 oz. per day can be accomodated. However I have been including a tbsp of cod liver oil and approx. 100 grams of butter as well as paprika and red cabbage so I am a little concerned with the vitamin A. Any advice?

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107
15593 · May 09, 2011 at 5:35 PM

My only suggestion would be to eat less liver. The butter, paprika and cabbage aren't worth worrying about- the butter because it's such a small amount, the other two because they're plant form vit-A. If it's lamb/beef liver, I think 7*28g*7=1.37kg is too much, 48,000IU per day/336000 a week. The CLO alone gives you 13,000IU. 10,000IU per day is the suggested upper limit, the lowest amount that has been found to cause damage is 21,000IU per day. I think you're unlikely to suffer overt toxicity at those levels, but you might suffer ill effects. I have 500g lamb liver every 2 weeks, or 500g...

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107
15593 · May 09, 2011 at 5:43 PM

And re. cholesterol: heating anything with cholesterol in it. The higher the heat, the worse. http://sci.tech-archive.net/pdf/Archive/sci.med.nutrition/2008-02/msg00022.pdf

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094
78422 · May 09, 2011 at 3:26 PM

Hey David: could you explain why organ meat cholesterol woudl be subject to oxidization?(ie. what the conditions of oxidization are)?

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107
15593 · May 12, 2011 at 2:37 PM

Yes, boiling/simmering ought to be at a lower temperature, and so should have an effect. Kidneys are the best non-liver offal in my opinion. Sweetbreads are also good, but a lot fattier (78:22 by calories) so you'd need to eat solely sweetbreads to get enough protein. Raw meat (and esp liver) is a contentious issue I won't adjudicate on. I guess liver with the outsides browned and the inside rare would be a good compromise though

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094
78422 · May 12, 2011 at 2:12 PM

Thanks for the info David. Would you recommend eating the liver raw? Also, what other organ meat would you suggest if liver is to be reduced to a few days per week??

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094
78422 · May 12, 2011 at 2:18 PM

David: would you know if preperation method(boiling, say) of meat reduces oxysterols? What organ meat would be a good substitute for liver to get a good nutrient profile with minimal detriments? I am looking for protein sources for a daily 30-40- gram serving(I order the items in bulk so it would have to be the same substance).

05055dcbf12c81f1cce777ec365870af
1
1786 · May 09, 2011 at 1:03 AM

imagine you are an ancient hunter. you and your fellows kill a large beast. it has one large liver, one large heart, 2 kidneys, 1 brain, 2 eyes, maybe testes if its male, LOTS OF FAT, bones, stomach, intestines, thyroid, thymus, pancreas/spleen/gallbladder. these have to be shared. one personman isnt eating the liver by himself over the course of 4 days, it would be rude AND unhealthy.

05055dcbf12c81f1cce777ec365870af
1786 · May 09, 2011 at 5:09 AM

biochemically, you're going to find out on your own certainly.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094
78422 · May 09, 2011 at 2:28 PM

Explain why if you please(this is the purpose of my post to get feedback for health not judgements.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094
78422 · May 09, 2011 at 1:11 AM

could you explain biochemically(how it is unsound)? I don't have ready access to whole carcasses, etc. My resources are limited and must be acquired in bulk as I am living in the woods(and don't have the resources for hunting etc.).

083f1759ac6bcee7cd5081f6d062c822
0
247 · May 09, 2011 at 6:38 AM

Ground bone? What kind? Also, too much salt. Be sure to use sea salt at least.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094
78422 · May 09, 2011 at 2:34 PM

I have been boiling pig's feet, extracting the skin/meat/fat and using it seperately(for gelatin). After which I boil/simmer the bones until soft, then blend them in a blender until a paste, then freeze for storage and keep a supply in the fridge. I am a little concerned with excess calcium from that much bone though but...I based the dose off eggshell content(1 large shell=800mg. calcium). I assume that the other minerals in the bone/eggshell enable best absorption of the calcium. As to the sea salt(iodized) I have reduced it on the grounds of excretion of nutrients, etc(see "industrial salt'

4e184df9c1ed38f61febc5d6cf031921
0
4991 · May 09, 2011 at 6:32 AM

Why not track it on FitDay and see where any (if any) excesses are? Personally, I eat liver only 2 times a week and kidneys not more than 2, because of the huge amounts if vitamin A...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094
78422 · May 09, 2011 at 2:31 PM

Having researched kidney they seem to have little vitamin A which is why I have done the liver/kidney split(and to round out the nutritional profile/sources). I have never heard of Fitday but will investigate thanks.

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