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Who here considers a life without intervention?

by 18427 · October 30, 2011 at 11:14 PM

Beyond that needed for emergency care would you perceive your healthy lifestyle enough? Would you consider a life without testing and intervention from the medical establishment? Being that many here are quite astute on how to read studies, why would you subject yourself to another persons "diagnosis"?

I understand that a lot of hackers here like to test, test, and retest...I'm not one of them, but even if you are, there are resources to get these things done without referral these days. Self assessment for peace of mind and determining our own route for care is a very up and coming thing. Being that if you go to a MEDICAL Doctor you usual end up with a script for Drugs that in no way move you towards health I believe most here look for alternatives anyhow. And judging by the number of "how can I convince my doctor I'm not crazy and I don't want statins" threads....these visits are a prime source of stress. Are they necessary at all in your view?

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7741 · October 30, 2011 at 04:13 AM

They never have been for me. Tests are fun but I'll never be a regular visitor to the dentist or doctor unless there's something wrong I can't treat myself. I diagnose myself correctly 100% of the time before I visit. My health, I'm in charge, I can't imagine going to a dr. who pressured me to take meds I didn't want etc or doing yearly checkups.

Thank god for modern medicine, though, really. Their advice for preventative care may suck, but there are no laws (yet) that force us to follow it. I had prompt surgery on my hand last week cause a little slice with a paring knife severed a tendon in my thumb - could have gone the rest of my life without being able to move it normally, in fact due to scar tissue could have ended up with a permanent hook thumb not good for much at all.

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1030 · October 30, 2011 at 04:04 PM

Gotta throw this in: I'm an inpatient nurse and it is a regular occurrence to get an admission who is an old farmer who "doesn't believe in doctors," hasn't seen a doctor for 30 years, etc. Inevitably, they are in end-stage renal failure, liver failure, have metastatic prostate cancer, multiple myeloma, CHF, advanced dementia, pulmonary emboli or something along those lines -- often several things along those lines. The usual course is running around trying to figure out what the hell's going on (very difficult with no medical records, no baselines, patient who is a poor historian, etc.) which involves lots of invasive testing; then they crash, end up intubated (because of course they are a full code) in the ICU, and then die.

Obviously, the setting I'm encountering these folks in selects for ill people. And in addition to an aversion to doctors, these guys tend to be poor and uneducated -- versus the relative affluence and high level of education we see on this forum (and I assume tends to be true in most paleo circles).

But I see enough that could have been detected at a routine physical (and most likely ameliorated, or at least made more tolerable, or at least given the patient a heads up that time is limited and they'd best make some end-of-life decisions/plans) that instead leads to a very unpleasant death (redundant to some I'm sure, but not to nurses!) -- it makes me leery of completely eliminating "modern" medicine from most people's lives. Even rock hard paleo cross fitters get cancer, KWIM?

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32177 · October 30, 2011 at 01:43 PM

I do my own health care these days.

Haven't found much help from the docs I've been to. They gave me "bandaids" for the symptoms, but never addressed the source of my (previous) issues.

A Primal diet and some judicious supplementation has solved all my health problems.

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20462 · October 30, 2011 at 01:48 PM

I'm extremely healthy, very very active and eat well - truly have my whole life, and am generally a very happy person - I think this helps healthwise as well. My family is strong with longevity, 90's is normal. Nothing ever seems to take any of us down unless it's a freak accident or bizarre disease. It was always, and still is for me, self-diagnosis first doctors second. Family growing up on farms far away from any help makes you figure it out on your own if you can.

I had an extremely shite health situation take place this month and as a follow-up to make sure all is well am having a last round of tests run. I believe I'm fine, and my doctor does as well - super amazing doc, and am trusting that these tests will confirm that all is a-ok. As the blood is already being taken I'm kinda of curious what else is going on and am asking for a few additional things. I'm curious.

Other than something crazy happening, currently the only "normal" doctor visits I have is my gyn. I don't take any medication, never have, and the only Rx is b.c. and travel inoculations. Outside of stitches, severe concussions and big broken bones, ok and that bout of meningitis a few years ago - to repeat thank god for modern medicine or I'd be dead, oh and maybe the few instances of entamoeba histolytica when I was living out of the country, that's pretty much it for le docs and me.

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15831 · October 30, 2011 at 01:17 PM

i'm 32 years old, male, healthy, lean, active. I haven't had health insurance in over six years. I haven't seen a doctor in that time. I eat well and try to live smart.

However I've been to the ER 3 times for acute injury - cuts, breaks, falls.

However I'm getting older and not having health insurance sucks.

Also years back I had TB. yes, people still get it in the US. I probably would've died with a doctor.

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6043 · October 30, 2011 at 06:09 AM

Evolutionary pressure only selects for genes that help you get to reproductive age and reproduce. A perfect diet won't fix your congenital heart defect.

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4337 · October 30, 2011 at 11:14 PM

Neither extreme is optimal. There will probably be a time in your life when modern medicine really works for you. Unfortunately, modern medicine (including mainstream dietary advice) also has a hand in killing most people. If you have good judgment and do your own serious (pubmed-type) research, you can have the best of both worlds.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of people, including tons of really smart people, lack good judgment when it comes to health and are either incapable of or unwilling to do their own research. Thus, the best advice for most people is probably to just (i) find a good doctor that listens, seems smart and is somewhat open-minded and (ii) approach modern medicine with a slight bias towards avoiding invasive or dangerous tests and treatments. Generally, if the test/treatment is worth it, your doctor will push pretty hard to overcome your initial reluctance. If the doctor isn't insistent, the test/treatment was probably just offered to minimize the doctors risk, not yours.

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25181 · October 30, 2011 at 04:44 PM

Regardless of what side you come down upon......you will need us at some point for some reason. The real issue for you all to ponder is how to get your doc to a primal template.

It is the reason I even come here.

We need you........to show them the chronic results of this lifestyle and then educate them with the science they refuse to read on their own.......

Then real change happens and paleo reaches its tipping point.

You the skeptic patient is the key to this tipping point. And regardless of whether you think you need us or not now.......you need to share your lifestyle with them while you dont need them

They see metabolic syndrome all day. When you come in you are the exception and not the norm. They actually will pay attention to you because of this. But they wont allow you to school them. They have to come to the idea of paleo in their own way.

Your job is to massage them slowly.

Then you win because you help educate a new paleo doc.

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10149 · October 30, 2011 at 03:49 AM

in Canada only board certified doctors can order tests in most provinces and the results are only given to the doctor who ordered the test. if i could order and pay, i would never see the doctors available to me at this time.

doctors are necessary. the people eating SAD still need their meds.

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