Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

Question

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I am not exactly Paleo because my diet is more strict (because my body does not tolerate a whole bunch of Paleo foods).

To make sure you understand why I am not eating a lot of other Paleo foods (like nuts, butter, coconut oil, EVOO) - I am lactose and gluten intolerant, I have a gastric erosion and leaky gut syndrome. Every time I try to eat something other than what is listed below, it bothers my stomach and I am in pain for hours (sometimes days).

SO THIS LIST IS COMPRISED FROM THE FOODS THAT DO NOT BOTHER MY STOMACH:

This is what I eat:

Vegetables (except nightshades, peppers and onion family)
Tubers - rutabaga, carrot, beets, parsnips.
Grass fed lamb, chicken breast, organ meats, fish (no eggs)
Bone broth
Fruit (except citrus fruit).

I do not eat nuts or oils or dairy because of my gut issues - they bother me.

Due to low energy I have decided to cut off all fruit. I went cold turkey for two days - I feel I am getting better, but it is too early to tell.

Hence my question:

Since I am already not eating a bunch of stuff, am I going to deprive myself of anything?

By cutting out all fruit and berry, am I going to miss some important/vital micro and macro nutrients, vitamins or anything else of that sort?

Is there anybody on this board who eats only vegetables and meat/fish? If you do, how long have you been doing it for? Any complications health wise?

Please let me know.

The reason I am thinking of cutting out all fruit is because I am feeling extreme fatigue and have no idea what to do. This fatigue is on and off and I cannot figure out the pattern. I am going to see my doctor soon, but I just want to know if it can be related to my diet somehow.

Additional information: I have a sweet tooth and LOVE SWEETS and fruit. I usually eat fruit with every meal and for snacks.

edited Feb 26 2012 at 15:29

asked Feb 25 2012 at 19:58

VB
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3

Why do you want to cut out fruit? – Matt Feb 25 2012 at 20:12

I take it that you don't get on well with animal fat? – Warren D Feb 25 2012 at 20:52

My energy levels were going down. I want to make an experiment - will I feel better if I cut out all fruit? If cutting off all fruit has no effect on me, I will re-introduce fruit. Also, I have been an avid fruit-eater ever since age 4 and I do get fruit cravings. I was wondering if they stop or exacerbate after I give up all fruit. What do you think I should do? – VB Feb 25 2012 at 20:55

This isn't an answer to your question, but have you tried adding in coconut milk/butter at all, in place of dairy and nuts? – Jayme Feb 25 2012 at 20:55

I can eat animal fat no problem. I eat fatty lamb meat and fatty fish. I cannot eat pork for some reason. – VB Feb 25 2012 at 20:56

show 7 more comments

RadiantRachel · Answer 1 · 2012-02-25 23:51:17Z UTC

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The organ meats, especially liver I hear, should more than make up for any nutrients you miss from fruit.

answered Feb 25 2012 at 23:51

RadiantRachel
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+1 I don't eat any fruit, except the very occasional banana. No problems! – Dragonfly Feb 26 2012 at 0:51

And I have been low/no fruit for over 6 months. – Dragonfly Feb 26 2012 at 0:55

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THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! – VB Feb 26 2012 at 7:49

uberbulldog · Answer 2 · 2012-02-25 20:30:18Z UTC

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Youre not going to miss the sugar.

answered Feb 25 2012 at 20:30

uberbulldog
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Amen to this. Fruit in any form does bad things to my metabolism, cravings, etc. – Canis Minor Feb 25 2012 at 20:46

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n=1. Fruit works wonders for me. – Wisper Feb 25 2012 at 21:36

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@Wisper, me too. The fastest way for me to feel like crap is to stop eating fruit. I don't eat it in mass quantities, of course, but 1-3 pieces per day. But if I didn't thrive on it I'd feel differently for sure. – Nance Feb 25 2012 at 23:21

I eat fruit in mass quantities, and if I don't, my body does miss the sugar : fruit just works great for me. – Korion Feb 26 2012 at 8:14

Kasra · Answer 3 · 2012-02-25 20:18:51Z UTC

I doubt there's anything uniquely nutritive about fruit, especially to a person who already eat vegetables.

I ate only meat and veg for a while, and it wasn't that great. I think it had to do with excess muscle meat. Make sure you eat a lot of broth and organ meats if you do this. Alternatively, add cheese or milk to your diet. Both of these paths worked better for me than straight meat+veg.

score 5 · Answer 4 · 2012-02-25 22:34:35Z UTC

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I've been eating your proposed diet for six years (more or less). No problems.Only positives. And I have no digestive "issues" with fruit. Just find them to be the red headed step child to the veggie/tuber. (with all due respect to Ray Peat and his "clones") ...... Actually you are proposing the perfect Paleo Diet. No excess fructose, no gluten, no excess Pufa, plus grass fed ruminant/organ meat/broth. How much perfection can a Paleo person attain?:)

edited Feb 25 2012 at 22:34

answered Feb 25 2012 at 21:25

shah78

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Thank you for your comment! I am not proposing it - my stomach does. I have nothing to do with it, I swear. What is PUFA? Thanks! – VB Feb 25 2012 at 21:47

PUFA en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyunsaturated_fatty_acid – Warren D Feb 26 2012 at 0:28

Just wanted to thank you one more time for being so encouraging. Sending you my good wishes and lots of love. Since you have been eating this for six years, I should have no problem eating like this for one week (or longer). – VB Feb 26 2012 at 7:48

George Brodie · Answer 5 · 2012-02-25 21:09:20Z UTC

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Plain meat & veggies will suffice to heal that gut problem you speak of. Then one day you will be able to reintroduce all of those things that symptomatically may cause you harm, but are not direct causes of that harm. Just besure to include a variety of colors that you are tolerant to (yellow, orange, blue, GREEN, red, purple).

answered Feb 25 2012 at 21:09

George Brodie
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	That's my plan, pretty much. I was just wondering if fruit is essential. – VB Feb 25 2012 at 21:14
	What are some red vegetables? Tomatoes bother my stomach. Anything else? – VB Feb 25 2012 at 21:17
	Beets. Radicchio. Radishes. Red onion. I believe rhubarb is technically a vegetable, though it seems to give some sensitive people problems. You don't eat peppers so I won't recommend capsicum. – Canis Minor Feb 26 2012 at 4:13
	I cannot have onions :( It bothers my stomach (although I used to love them). Same with radishes. But thanks for your suggestions! I will buy radicchio today! – VB Feb 26 2012 at 7:51

thhq · Answer 6 · 2012-02-25 20:09:55Z UTC

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You've already deprived yourself of plenty. This sounds like what Scrooge might have eaten. I'm not being snarky here. Paleos had to eat the widest range of nutrients available out of necessity. Systematically eliminating foods is Neolithic disordered eating logic. Are you undereating otherwise?

answered Feb 25 2012 at 20:09

thhq
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Isn't "paleo" as much defined by what we don't eat, as what we do? – Canis Minor Feb 25 2012 at 20:47

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I hate to see paleo defined negatively and exclusionist, as if paleo is a kind of eating disorder that has to be done "just so". I prefer eating what you should eat in the light of prehistory. Taking it to the next level - excluding paleo foods from a paleo diet - is shooting paleo in the foot. This behavior deserves the orthorexia stamp. – thhq Feb 25 2012 at 20:57

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I am not depriving myself on purpose. I am intolerant to so many things, it is easier to tell people what I am NOT intolerant too. I know exactly what you mean. When I try to eat something new and my stomach starts bothering me, I usually tell myself: "What??? I cannot eat this??? This sucks!" I am not undereating, in fact I have fruit cravings and sometime chocolate cravings. I have never had a broccoli craving. Strange, isn't it? – VB Feb 25 2012 at 21:00

Yeah, strange that you'd quit eating a food that is paleo and which you've eaten since age 4. I'm not exactly paleo either, so I'm not going to get dogmatic about this. – thhq Feb 25 2012 at 21:05

@thhq - my energy levels were really going down and I was not sure what else to try. If this is not going to help, I will re-introduce fruit (and will be very happy to do it, too). I think I need to try cutting out all fruit just to see what happens energy wise - if you know any alternatives, let me know. I am open to suggestions. – VB Feb 25 2012 at 21:13

Nance · Answer 7 · 2012-02-25 23:30:30Z UTC

I am about to recruit a number of down-votes but I'm going to say this anyhow.

If there are are any non-paleo foods (meaning processed) that you can tolerate easily and your GI tract finds soothing I'd add a couple temporarily to give yourself a slightly longer list.

Are you able to tolerate a little converted rice? Or soaked/fermented oatmeal?

Once in a while people who react sensitively to many whole foods will actually find they will improve if they eat something more processed--in other words, the very qualities that might make me avoid them could possibly be healing for you.

I can't remember which site I was reading yesterday but a doctor related a story about a patient who seemed to get more and more sensitive to foods and they just couldn't help him and he was down to a very short list of "safe" foods. He basically gave up and went out for pizza and beer--and it turned out that eating stuff like that for a while allowed/helped him make a complete recovery and he returned to a whole foods diet and did fine.

So, I'm not assuming pizza and beer would do it for you but if you think there's a non-paleo food that would help you just GO FOR IT!

Craig · Answer 8 · 2012-02-26 08:21:09Z UTC

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I rarely eat fruit. I am talking once a month, maybe, if there's nothing left to eat because I did a poor job planning my meals. Funny thing is, I like fruit just fine. Feeling excellent. Nothing (negative) to report here.

Been eating very low fruit my entire life.

answered Feb 26 2012 at 8:21

Craig
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Lucky you! I have been eating high fruit my entire life. Trying something different for a change. Nice to hear about your experience, thanks for sharing! – VB Feb 26 2012 at 21:37

Canis Minor · Answer 9 · 2012-02-25 20:55:55Z UTC

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There's some interesting conversation along these lines in this thread: http://paleohacks.com/questions/8267/going-very-low-carb-ditching-fruits-nutrient-deficiency#axzz1nPbWvcKc

answered Feb 25 2012 at 20:55

Canis Minor
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Great link! Thank you for this! – VB Feb 25 2012 at 21:15

A at Grain Free Diet · Answer 10 · 2012-02-25 21:54:22Z UTC

I just realized I should post this as an answer and not a comment, so comment deleted and reposted here:

Yeah I do have an alternative. And I cannot believe that I, of all people, am about to say this, but... keep the fruit, ditch the vegetables. I was having the same problem with being intolerant to things... I can't eat gluten, then dairy was bothering me, then eggs, then... you get the point. Energy kind of low. Then about 2 weeks ago I ran across a sale on organic navel oranges and figured why not. And I couldn't stop eating them. And I feel AWESOME. And for some reason now I can eat dairy again? Eggs too. No, I don't know why, but I'm seeing where this goes... and I'm buying more oranges.

ETA: I should also point out that I don't think it has to be oranges exactly. Because I have also seen some improvement with apples and bananas. I just happened to notice the largest difference with oranges because I had so many of them from the sale.

PaleoCat · Answer 11 · 2012-02-25 21:54:42Z UTC

You are not alone! I went Paleo last June in an attempt to heal my leaky gut. I have developed food sensitivies to many of the "healthy" foods I used to eat. Eggs, gluten, dairy, yeast, soy, legumes, pepper, curry, nuts, salmon, avocados, citrus, etc. My reactions are very inflammatory. Basically if I am exposed to any of these foods I break out with cystic acne, get joint pain, abdominal pain, and have a cerebral reaction which leaves me extremely fatigued and depressed for a couple of days. It took me a long time to pinpoint all of my triggers. I had the Igg and Ige allergy testing done to help identify some, and used an ellimination diet to weed out the others. From my lab work I also learned that I had an overgrowth of Candida and parasites, which is typical of people with leaky gut. I also learned that I was extreme hypochlorydic and needed to start supplementing Hcl with my meals to lower my stomach acid so I could properly digest fat and protein. In a nutshell, I am/was a mess. I believe my leaky gut is the root cause of my adrenal fatigue (which I am taking cortisol for now), hypothyroid, and PCOS. All of this because I was gluten sensitive and didn't know it until the damage was done. I am currently working with a functional doctor to get back on track. He recommended this probiotic for helping repair the gut http://www.vsl3.ca/about.html ( I wasn't able to take others because I reacted to them, but not this one), also glutamine and of course avoidance of reactive foods. A year ago I worked with a naturopath to work on the the parasites and candida via a variety of supplements and candida diet. Personally, my exprience with fruit has been that it's best that I avoid it. Though I crave apples so badly sometimes I have to give in because part of me feels like I may be deficient in nutrients due to my limited diet and they are one of the few sweet treats I can have. Apples, cherries, and pears are the only fruit I can tolerate, though I have to be extremely careful and only eat one serving, otherwise I will binge and throw my blood sugar out of balance and have a melt down. I've read that candida can cause these intense cravings for sugar. Like you, I do better without the fruit, but I worry about missing out on some of the antioxidants, though I live off of kale, collards, chard, rutabage, broccoli, beets, turnips, and of course meat. I recently started eating sprouted buckwheat groats in the morning, I know it's a paleo no no, but I've been doing really well on them, it's nice to have another option for getting my carbs and the inositol in them is good for PCOS. This is long and mostly about me, me, me, but I wanted you to know that there is someone else struggling with the same dietary restrictions. I've met two other people with similar cases. My advice, take a good multi-vitamin and eat what you crave in moderation.

Wcc Kamal Stabby fan · Answer 12 · 2012-02-25 20:25:12Z UTC

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Adding some tubers to your diet maybe a good idea.

http://paleodietnews.com/2789/the-paleo-diet-and-safe-starches/

answered Feb 25 2012 at 20:25

Wcc Kamal Stabby fan
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I eat tubers every day. I did not list them under a special heading since they go under vegetables. Thank you for the link! – VB Feb 25 2012 at 21:05

peter · Answer 13 · 2012-02-26 06:50:50Z UTC

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Why do you think that fruit is making your energy levels low? That seems counter intuitive to me. (Not trying to be rude, I really do want to know why you think that)

answered Feb 26 2012 at 6:50

peter
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	Peter, thank you for your comment. My answer: I do not know what else to do. If you have any suggestions/ideas - I would love to hear them. You know what I eat and don't eat, you know what I have - so you tell me - why on some days I feel so wiped out I cannot even get out of bed and wash dishes? I don't know the answer and I am trying my hardest to survive. Fruit seems to be the most harmless thing to cut out, plus I have read on this board that lots of people feel better once they cut this out. If you are healthy and feel great on Paleo diet - I envy you. – VB Feb 26 2012 at 8:03
	This is not my case, although, for the record, I have to admit, that I feel 100% better on Paleo than S.A.D diet. – VB Feb 26 2012 at 8:04

I am thinking of cutting off all fruit. What nutrients am I going to miss?

13 Answers