Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

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Apologies for the length. Long time lurker, first time post. I am a 22 year old female, and I have been paleo for a year. I have been in a very long relationship with my excruciatingly gorgeous boyfriend, yet I have for the past few months had trouble having any interest in sex. It's been bothering me enough to embarrassingly turn to PaleoHacks, yet I haven't found much guidance.

Edit Let's clarify my diet and my typical food intake. Morning: 4 slices of thick bacon, 3 eggs (onions, peppers, garlic) cooked in ALL of the leftover grease. Ketchup, 2c coffee. Followed by a snack, either an orange or Fage full-fat greek yogurt and raw honey. About 1c of yogurt, 1 tbs of honey.

Mid-day/Evening: Varies with Whole foods hot bar. Sometimes salmon sushi, often chicken thighs and spinach/broccoli, meats cooked in coconut milk, sausage, and other greasy meats. I go home and eat my 90% dark chocolate from Lindt. Drink some green tea with jasmine. Sometimes eat larabars. I often eat white rice, white potatoes, and sweet potatoes, so I do NOT stay under 50g of carbs. If I notice I am low carb, I eat them. Recently I've been stacking my plate with broccoli, carrots, and salad-things.

I'm a tiny [small frame, 5'0"] 97 lbs, and I probably eat about 1,400-1,500 cal a day. I eat until I have a food baby, okay? Every time. My weight is genetic, we're all this small. My grandmother and mother are smaller than me, and look pregnant. Idk. I have a sweet tooth, and I give into it in "Paleo" ways, such as dark chocolate and paleo baked goods. I am lactose intolerant and never indulge in grains. I take fish oil supplements, and drink a LOT of black coffee daily. Possibly around 2 "Klean Kantines" worth a day?

I just started crossfit [1mo], and otherwise run short distances for fun. Before that, I did StrongLifts. I'm a science student, and have a heavy workload, which often stresses me out. I don't have eyes for any other men, either. My boyfriend attempts to be romantic and I just can't psychologically get into it. It's extremely upsetting. When I was on the SAD/vegetarian diet, this was not an issue, even with my chub. Now, I seem to be fixated on my little stomach puff and feel self-conscious and can't get into anything.

Okay, sorry for the novel. Any advice is extremely appreciated.

edited Mar 7 2012 at 3:42

asked Mar 7 2012 at 2:31

freetheweenie
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..are you on the pill? – The Loon Mar 7 2012 at 2:36

I am not. I do not take any medication. – freetheweenie Mar 7 2012 at 2:48

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Might be worth getting your zinc levels checked... shrug good luck, don't give up! – Kirsten Mar 7 2012 at 4:15

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Zinc first made my libido crazy, now it does nothing. Carbs help, but overall I believe this is hypothyroidism that you have to treat with gelatin (bone broth), carbohydrates from fruit and/or potatoes and less physical stress. You might wanna try out selenium and later on iodine too. And reduce PUFA intake. – Korion Mar 7 2012 at 9:12

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Did any day anything about coffee?? There is a discussion at Paleo digest one of the yahoo groups that coffee causes an EIGHT fold increase in insulin resistance (read: reason for belly fat for a lot of folks). Cortisol from caffeine can cause resistance to fat burning and especially on the belly, hips and elsewhere. Have you tried not relying on caffeine? – grace Mar 7 2012 at 12:10

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syrahna · Answer 1 · 2012-03-07 04:29:36Z UTC

I feel like such a dork posting this - but while you get the hormonal thing examined, you could maybe work on exercising your major sex organ (your brain!) and figure out what makes you turned on at this juncture in your life. I think it helps to just lay the grooves for the future, you know? And I'd do a lot of that thinking/feeling alone. Ever heard or read about women (married with kids stage in their life women) who say that scheduling sex got them back in the rhythm of actually having spontaneous, more frequent sex? Sex begets sex. So maybe treat yourself to some sexy. Go channel (or google) some Betty Dodson or Nina Hartley. IfyaknowwhatImean.

I am NOT saying this is in your head. At all. I'm just a big believer in behavioral modification complimenting all kinds of other concrete things. Can't hurt, might help.

JayJay · Answer 2 · 2012-03-07 03:12:30Z UTC

"Now, I seem to be fixated on my little stomach puff and feel self-conscious and can't get into anything." If your fixated on this then its likely your own self image/self esteem that is holding you back. An awareness of your body is great, but beware seeing each and every little DIFFERENCE as an IMPERFECTION. Get comfortable with yourself. Many women (and men) feel renewed vigor and sexuality from exercise and improved body body comp. The self confidence is the on switch...for you it seems like the extra awareness has become more of an obsession and resulted in the opposite reaction. I dunno the cure, but just pointing out a possible problem.

Bread-Eating Beelzebub · Answer 3 · 2012-03-07 02:45:33Z UTC

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Are you on the pill? Is your cycle normal? How often do you work out? Have you plugged a typical day into Cron O Meter or Fitday and seen any low numbers for micronutrients (like mg)? Maybe too personal, so you can ignore if you want, but do you have dryness down there?

Another weird question, but might be relevant, but do you find the food you eat (not the desserts and treats) pleasurable to eat?

I would see a doctor and also consider seeing a counselor at your school. Yes, food and fitness can affect libido, but so can stress and body-image issues.

I would also ditch the fish oil and start eating some reasonable amount of fish instead. I have personally experienced weird hormonal effects from fish oil. I'm not sure why, Chris Masterjohn thought it might have to do with my particular polymorphisms for fatty acid metabolism, where EPA might interrupt arachidonic acid turnover for me, but either way, it never ceases to surprise me how often supplements CAUSE problems instead of fixing them.

answered Mar 7 2012 at 2:45

Bread-Eating Beelzebub
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No pill, exact 28-day cycle. Never had any period issues, once had "down there" trouble, both gynos said I was eating too many carbs (was a veggie.) never had it again, but it is dry after my period. I go to a counselor now, for anger issues. I am doing great yay! But this has been going on while I look better than I used to, yet I was having much better sex. I've used fitday, that's how I know my approximate calories, haha. And I like the sweetness of the treats, but a lot of the "bready" treats are due to texture. I definitely need to eat more fish, so I will experiment with that – freetheweenie Mar 7 2012 at 2:52

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I would make sure to eat things that are pleasurable to eat. I feel like an anhedonic diet is kind of bad for libido, but maybe that's just my personal experience. Nothing like a meal with things like beef tartare, oysters, bone marrow, raw hamachi, salmon roe, pate, rilettes + wine to get me in the mood. The dryness would be an interesting thing because if during foreplay you are not getting wet, that might point to the issue being more hormonal than physiological because studies show that should be an automatic reaction to any kind of sexual stimuli. – Bread-Eating Beelzebub Mar 7 2012 at 3:02

Melissa. Thank the paleo gods for you. Dryness, has definitely been a frustrating god damn issue. And, when it happens, it makes me feel awful. It MUST be hormones, because everything you've said thus far has been much more spot on than any of the men who seem to be fixating on my weight thing. I do eat pleasurable foods, and the "mood" effect seems blunted, and short lived. – freetheweenie Mar 7 2012 at 3:19

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The first step is seeing a doc who can give you a hormonal panel. In the meantime, eating those hormonal system supporting foods like liver, egg yolks, roe, etc. can help. It's possible that what you have is subtle enough that it might not show up on a hormonal panel, though it can still be an issue. Paleo Pepper (paleopepper.com) has written about her struggles with dryness, though hers are caused by PCOS. Do you have any PCOS symptoms? – Bread-Eating Beelzebub Mar 7 2012 at 3:38

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I would concur with all of Melissa's thoughts and in addition to a hormone panel, consider the salivary adrenal stress index which measured cortisol 4times in a day. The belly 'puff' and tecent change in drive sounds like high cortisol, high insulin resistance and estrogen dominance (and thyroid). I used to do more crossfire and endurance training but all is very stressful if there are other stressors. Cortisol that is wonky can cause many of the things you list... This might help and google Metametrix adrenal metametrix.com/files/test-menu/patient-briefs/… – grace Mar 7 2012 at 12:03

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Dragonfly · Answer 4 · 2012-03-07 04:14:39Z UTC

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I am wondering about a zinc deficiency. Also D3. Worth checking out. Both needed for hormonal balance.

I got both dialed in and my libido & juiciness is back (and I'm 49, FWIW.)

answered Mar 7 2012 at 4:14

Dragonfly
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Zinc and D3, got it. Man, maybe I shouldn't have asked. Now I have to not be lazy and call doctors and go places and EVERYTHING. Le sigh, first world problems. Thanks for your help, dragonfly!!! – freetheweenie Mar 7 2012 at 4:23

You can do a zinc tally taste test (google it & search on this site) and order a 25 (OH)D test kit from the Vitamin D Council. No docs involved. – Dragonfly Mar 7 2012 at 9:32

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Dragonfly -I know I have teased you about always suggesting Zinc for everything, but it turns out I am zinc deficient!! Who knows I may start suggesting it too!! I have a compromised gut and have started eating smoked oysters once or twice a week for the zinc. Do you think I would benefit from adding a supplement of it? Pills or is there a kind that can be absorbed on the skin? brands? Thanks so much!! – Senneth Mar 7 2012 at 17:35

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Hey Senneth~ I think many folk who have eschewed red meat for one reason or another may be deficient. I was taking NOW zinc picolinate 50 mg and have dropped down to the 30 mg NOW L-OptiZinc as my level has increased (per a zinc tally test.) If I recall correctly, a can of oysters has ~72 mg of zinc. I think aiming for 50 mg/day is fine to regain sufficiency (making sure to balance copper intake) and then maintaining on 20-30 mg. If you can eat more oysters,then go for it! YMMV... – Dragonfly Mar 7 2012 at 19:03

Thanks Dragonfly. I was surprised that I like the smoked oysters since I am so repulsed by the other superfoods, like liver. I have been chowing down on them. I just can't look at em. – Senneth Mar 7 2012 at 20:03

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Stabby · Answer 5 · 2012-03-07 02:52:26Z UTC

You are likely eating too little and exercising too much (for your caloric intake). Insufficient caloric intake can produce a condition called amenorrhea, where your reproductive system shuts down and you stop menstruating because you can't exactly support a baby if you don't have enough energy available, and by the standard of pretty much any caloric needs calculator you aren't getting enough. People lose their sex drive without enough calories, naturally. You will need to eat more food if you continue to do crossfit, or even in general. I think that the difference is explained by the added exercise mostly. Paleo diets tend to make people reduce their caloric intake but so do vegetarian diets, I don't know what you were getting before. That will also probably help you cope with stress because exercise on a low calorie diet is pretty stressful. Also magnesium will help you.

When you say that your diet is high in calories yet you aren't getting enough calories that suggests an eating disorder. You say you have a chub and you are 97 pounds. That is hard to believe. And I'm sure even if you have a bit of body fat it looks fine.

Best of luck.

Matthew · Answer 6 · 2012-03-07 06:40:45Z UTC

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Maybe you've just lost interest in him as a mate.

answered Mar 7 2012 at 6:40

Matthew
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In men, studies show that having sex with a new partner increases sex hormone levels. I wouldn't be surprised if the same happens in women. Or if this particular relationship in question has lasted long enough for her to have hypothetically given birth and weaned a child already. For some women, LTRs past that require less reliance on "chemistry" for sex. The African Aka tribal people view sex as a sacred duty and have it every day whether they want to or not, which probably allows them to maintain their somewhat-monogamous marriage system. – Bread-Eating Beelzebub Mar 7 2012 at 17:29

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There's always one. Look, not trying to be rude, but I came to paleohacks for more scientific speculations, not for anecdotes I could have gotten from my mom had I turned to her with this issue. I bring my private issue publicly because I care about this aspect of our relationship deeply, thank you. – freetheweenie Mar 13 2012 at 18:15

Poisson · Answer 7 · 2012-03-07 09:21:38Z UTC

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I know Ray Peat might seem a bit controversial on here, but I recommend you read his guidelines. For me, it upgraded my sex drive as if I was a teen again within a very short time. I think his diet fits the Paleo framework nicely in many ways, but it is more specific and requires a few adjustments. So unless you have alternatives, I recommend you experiment for a short term and see if it makes a difference.

As I said, the adjustments can be very very specific (eg., high importance of what food to combine, why you should favor milk/cheese over yogurt, and what to do if you are cow milk intolerant). If you are going to do it, be sure to read in full both the general idea and the recommendations for the implementation:

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=419742

http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011/12/29/ray-peats-brain-building-a-foundation-for-better-understandi.html

Note that I got all results without doing the thyroid supplementation. I pretty much did all the rest in detail. And I continued with the general Paleo recommendations including liver for Vitamin A.

edited Mar 7 2012 at 9:21

answered Mar 7 2012 at 9:13

Poisson
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I reduced my muscle meat intake dramatically and plan to eat less and less of it. At the same time I'm increasing bone broth frequency and gelatin intake. For me it definitely helps! – Korion Mar 7 2012 at 11:20

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@Korion: From my current understanding, the Peat diet doesn't necessarily mean you have to reduce muscle meat, just that you have to complement it with something (at the same absorption time) to change the amino acid profile - in theory aminos such as tryptophan would then be metabolized differently due to the effect of the others entering at the same time. In practice though, just eating less of that and more of gelatin... – Poisson Mar 7 2012 at 12:05

Hey just curious, why did you preface your post by saying that Ray Peat may be controversial on here? What makes him anti-paleohacks? – College Mar 7 2012 at 23:26

@collegeCaveman: Although much of his diet comes from raw food (there some exceptions - for example on sugar beyond the fact that it is not nutrient dense), the emphasis is different. Paleohackers seem to prefer starch to fructose, don't emphasis calcium and reduced iron absorption like Ray Peat. And these differences lead to quite different diet in practice. – Poisson Mar 9 2012 at 12:24

@Poisson: Thanks, so you implemented most of the guidelines described in the first post and saw a dramatic change in sex drive? I, unfortunately, am a teen with a waning sex drive (and documented low testosterone). I've been trying to deal with it for a while now. I may ask a question here describing my general background and asking the community for general advice (long story short: celiac diagnosed after 2 years of suffering of mainly non-digestive issues, little recovery after gluten free, documented low testosterone, and currently on the SCD diet with some very solid progress). – College Mar 10 2012 at 20:51

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Alchemille · Answer 8 · 2012-03-07 03:28:54Z UTC

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I suggest you eat a bit more caloric foods and starches. But you should also drop the coffee since it stresses the adrenals...

answered Mar 7 2012 at 3:28

Alchemille
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I meant to say fats not starches ;). – Alchemille Mar 7 2012 at 3:29

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Tell me more about the coffee thing, if you have sources or any additional information. I eat enough, I am not going to binge, I eat to satisfy my appetite. But, my coffee lust is otherworldly, likely addictive. If melissa suspects hormones, then there may be a possible link? – freetheweenie Mar 7 2012 at 3:50

Epic Beauty Guide · Answer 9 · 2012-03-07 06:55:49Z UTC

Heya weenie (lawlz) - I'm not going to suggest anything other than yoga, since everyone else has pretty much covered it. You mentioned stress is a big thing in your life due to classes and probably the low-level stress your belly poof causes you and all that. So, yoga. That helps me sh*tloads. I'm an entirely different person with yoga. It's calming and meditative, takes you away from the stress so your mind and body can relax into enjoying life (and sex). (Also helps with anger issues, which you also mentioned. Several studies have shown that yoga helps to re-wire your brain, calming down angry and type A personalities.)

Another thing that helped me that would probably help you is thinking about stress logically. Byron Katie's books are amazing for dissecting what exactly is stressing you out and how exactly to knock it off. Hope that helps, in addition to your zinc/D3.

And don't stress about having to do "all these things" now to get yourself on track. ;D One thing at a time. You are doing just fine, you just need a little adjustment.

The Loon · Answer 10 · 2012-03-07 02:36:24Z UTC

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You might want to get your hormones checked. If you are low in sleep and high in stress, you may be feeding the stress instead of feeding the other hormones.

answered Mar 7 2012 at 2:36

The Loon
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I sleep fine. I can sleep in or wake up early without difficulty. You may be right about hormones, but I'm not sure if that is the reason alone – freetheweenie Mar 7 2012 at 2:49

monaLisa · Answer 11 · 2012-03-07 03:41:58Z UTC

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It sounds to me like a combination of hormones and psychological issues. Is there any possibility you are pregnant? When I was pregnant my sex drive was 0 about 6 months after having the baby it came back. I agree with the other comments about you not having enough body fat. This could effect your hormones. There may be some other hormone problem that is unrelated. I would try adding some safe carbs like a yam in the afternoon. Try that for few days and see if you feel better. Also address your body issues with your counselor. there may be some deeper issue.

answered Mar 7 2012 at 3:41

monaLisa
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No pregnancy here. You have to have sex for that to happen. I get regular cycles, and I eat a lot of fat. I've edited my diet info, to clarify. I don't have body issues, I just don't think my tiny belly puff is attractive! I didn't say that made me unattractive lol. – freetheweenie Mar 7 2012 at 3:47

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you can still have sex without a sex drive, though it's annoying and you might need some KY Jelly, it might get your body back into things. – Bread-Eating Beelzebub Mar 7 2012 at 3:52

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When I say body issues I don't mean the little bit of belly fat we all stress about. I mean how you feel in your body. There may be some deeper issue you are not aware of. For me I had a lot of fear associates with sex because we had tried and it didn't work for me so I was always afraid. What worked for me was to look into tantric sex. Start slowly and rebuild trust with one another. You need to know that you guys can mess around and not feel pressured to have intercourse. Rebuild that trust and get your confidence back. Start slowly like just giving one another a massage. – monaLisa Mar 7 2012 at 15:48

Nandalal_Rasiah · Answer 12 · 2012-03-07 04:32:09Z UTC

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I think all the nutrition has been covered so I'll throw in a anatomical left-field/whimsical suggestion: roman chair sit-ups. Tweaking femur angle to floor will likely change it somewhat but I first saw this, and forgive me for linking to supp shills, at: http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_women_training_performance_sorority/roman_chair_orgasm?pageNo=6

it's not a long-term fix but much maybe a physical jump-start for the seemingly dead battery.

answered Mar 7 2012 at 4:32

Nandalal_Rasiah
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	What is "supp shills" ? And the video was removed, so I am looking into it now. The thread, however, was hilarious.. – freetheweenie Mar 7 2012 at 4:47
	shameless bombastic promoters of not-extraordinarily effective supplements. Biotest, the parent company, has the most exquisitely brotastic adverts for their products (not unique in the industry but exceptional all the same) – Nandalal_Rasiah Mar 7 2012 at 5:31
	you can find tons of videos for the exercise but it generally works with any spinal flexion where your thighs are approaching parallel to the floor. – Nandalal_Rasiah Mar 7 2012 at 5:33
	sorry thats "spinal extension" ' – Nandalal_Rasiah Mar 7 2012 at 7:00

freetheweenie · Answer 13 · 2012-03-13 18:21:44Z UTC

Hey guys,

Possibly some progress, my first step was increasing the carbs, as suggested. That didn't really change anything, but now i've been having soft, impatient stool daily for the past week. Not cool. Dropped coffee a few days later, I think that helped with the drive the most so far, but the headache that ensued sucked. Boo and I did doink. It was awesome. But I want that to happen more than once month, you dig? I haven't tried any zinc, I'm not sure how much I should start with or anything like that. Suggestions on zincage?

Lutfisk · Answer 14 · 2012-03-07 16:47:41Z UTC

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Eat some pumpkin seeds. They're supposed to be good for that.

answered Mar 7 2012 at 16:47

Lutfisk
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jessica · Answer 15 · 2012-05-31 21:53:34Z UTC

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egg yolks :) do you ever drink? how is your liver?

answered May 31 2012 at 21:53

jessica
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Grocket · Answer 16 · 2012-05-31 22:16:53Z UTC

I've seen a lot of anecdotal evidence connecting low carb paleo and low libido in many folks - note: myself included! I'm not sure how far above 50g of carbs you eat but that may still be way too low for you. As always, N=1 but increasing my carb intake made a HUGE difference.

Nonexistent sex drive.

16 Answers