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Many of us are big fans of bone broth. I've been making it for a couple years now with nothing more than grass-fed beef bones, a bit of vinegar, and a 48-hour simmer.

We know that the gelatin content is a reason in of itself to consume the stuff, but the nutritional properties (in particular, mineral content) of broth made in this fashion has just been speculative.

Well, now we have a chance to find out. I found a company (http://www.foodtestinglab.com/) who can run the tests, and got their pricing. I'm willing to make the broth as described above and send it to them. The goal of this thread is to pool the money together. I figure we can use PayPal so that everyone is protected, but I'm open to ideas. (I'm pledging $50 to start us off, but don't use that amount as a benchmark -- any amount will help.)

Below are our testing options. I think it'd be awesome to get the Complete Nutritional Analysis and Mineral Package done, but I'm more interested in the latter. We can also add additional minerals ($35 each) if folks are interested. So another goal of this thread is to get a consensus on what to test.

So, let's hear what people think. Thanks everyone!

(Patrick -- I'd like to officially request this thread be linked at the top of the PH page.)

-Terry

Complete Nutritional Analysis: $525

Protein Moisture Ash Total Dietary Fiber Cholesterol Fat profile Sugar profile Sodium Iron Calcium Vit A Vit C Carbs Calories Calories from fat

Mineral Package: $180

(Ca, Cu, Fe, K, Mg, Mo, Na, Ni, P, Zn)

Minerals, individual: $35.00 each

(Al, B, Ba, Bi, Ca, Co, Cr, Cu, Fe, K, Mg, Mn, Mo, Na, Ni, P, S, Sc, Se, Si, Sn, Ti, V, W Zn, other – inquire)

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EDIT, 03/19 7:19pm: Chipin has been down all day, so I created a new funding spot. This is just for the mineral package. $180 - my $50 + $7 (fees): http://www.thepoint.com/campaigns/campaign-0-4066

You only get charged if we reach the funding goal. You get my name & address (which is where The Point sends the check). I don't know what else I can do. If you feel that a scam artist would come to PH and pretend to do a bone broth test to steal money from people, well... I'm not really sure what to tell you. :-)

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4 
 Awesome. Maybe kickstarter this to help organize the fund-raising? – greymouser Mar 19 2012 at 14:31
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 Would be interesting to know pressure cooked stock as well, since it doesnt take as long to cook, but thats extra money. Flavour is beter, that i know from own experiments. – Jan Mar 19 2012 at 14:43
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 Korion: Thanks for that link, hadn't seen it. Adds some weight to the theory that broth isn't as nutritional as many of us may be hoping. – Terry Mar 19 2012 at 15:07
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 I don't drink broth for the nutritional value personally, but for the gelatin and hopefully for things like glucosamine. It improves digestion for the upcoming meal. – Korion Mar 19 2012 at 15:31
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 Really cool of Patrick to actually put this on top of PH! – Korion Mar 19 2012 at 17:54
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12 Answers

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I'm not sure how valid, if at all, such a test would be. The stocks I make vary immensely in consistence, even with bones that are superficially identical. I've had stock which turned into jelly, and I've had stock which is almost as fluid as water, and everything in between. Sometimes the fat flows to the surface and can be lifted off in sheets, sometimes it's just a thin semi-liquid foamy top.

It also changes depending on how much (if any) cartilage, joints and hooves you include, so your results will not be indicative of what you get at home. Finally, different source of meat (grass-fed) probably has a big impact.

But perhaps if you record the type of bones, how you made it, etc. in minute detail we could make guesstimates on how our own stock would compare. Research has to start from somewhere.

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4 
 Hmm, my stock is much more consistent -- like jelly, with about an inch of hard fat on top. (I do have a single source for my bones however.) You're correct that results will vary, but that's true with any kind of food. – Terry Mar 19 2012 at 16:26
I always get hard jelly but I go out of my way to mix marrow and joint bones. I think Wisper's point is spot-on. – Nance Mar 19 2012 at 16:31
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 +1 for recording everything in MINUTE DETAIL! :) – Invisible Caveman Mar 19 2012 at 18:08
My source of bones is the same butcher, and I always get joint-y (!) bones. Just today I got non-jelly -like stock with only fluffy fat covering, while I've also made stock from similar bones which ended up being able to be cut with a knife, same with the fat layer. – Wisper Mar 19 2012 at 20:38
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Does anyone else feel that, while very interesting, the cost outweighs the value received for these tests? We know that it is a source of nutrients... call me crazy, but that's enough for me.

I think spending $525 plus $400 for chondroiton and $250 for glucosamine, $180 for a mineral package and $35X[x] for other minerals really starts adding up.

Plus: our broth bones are sourced differently. I probably use a different amount of water, vinegar, cook it for a different length of time, at a different temperature or using a different method.

The idea is amazing, and I love that the community has discussions like this and tries to work together for the common good, but this is like performing an experiment one time & assuming that the results will ALWAYS be the same.

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With all the biochemists etc in the field of paleo, i am kind of puzzled why we dont it already :)

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Hey all, I found this to be a decent analysis of bone broth: http://www.townsendletter.com/FebMarch2005/broth0205.htm

A study on the content of bone & vegetable broths: http://adc.bmj.com/content/9/52/251.full.pdf

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 Nice links, April! – Nance Mar 19 2012 at 16:39
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"I found a company who can run the tests, and got their pricing."

Do you mind sharing the name of the company? Or a link perhaps?

No offense, but I could make up some numbers myself and get folks to "chip in" for them :)

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You're right, forgot to include that. foodtestinglab.com – Terry Mar 19 2012 at 15:33
Another reason to try a kickstarter - there is a modicum (however small) of protection that people are going to (try to) do what they say with the money. – greymouser Mar 19 2012 at 15:55
@greymouser I'm hoping PayPal's policies will be enough. Kickstarter's fees were crazy, and they wanted me to create an Amazon Payments Business account even though I'm not a business. – Terry Mar 19 2012 at 16:04
Thanks for the link – Invisible Caveman Mar 19 2012 at 16:20
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May I say, not particularly? I don't happen to think our level of food science is very complete.

My personal n=1 says my joints and well-being improve when I consume home-made bone broth. After a week or two without it, problems start to resurface and I find myself hungry for bone broth.

Does it really matter what's in it that triggers such a great response, over and over and over? And, will we find/identify/understand whatever it is?

It's a fun inquiry and I'll read the findings with fond interest, most likely sipping bone broth while I do so.

Just saying.

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 I think it might be helpful for people who recommend bone broth as a significant source of calcium and other minerals, in lieu of dairy and supplements. If anything, promote bone broth for joint and digestive health, but not for the other stuff that it's only purported to have. – Nemesis Mar 19 2012 at 15:43
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 @Nemesis, those are good points. I have noticed in a few places that people talk mostly about minerals while I look at gelatin, etc. – Nance Mar 19 2012 at 16:14
Nance, I'm also concerned with the potential harm that may be caused by people who recommend bone broth to supp calcium. How many Paleo parents have been advised to stop giving their kids dairy, thinking that broth will suffice? A definitive study is needed! ;) Broth as a source of gelatin is a no-brainer, lol. – Nemesis Mar 19 2012 at 16:48
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I, too, would be interested. It seems to be recommended often here on PH and I would like to know the resoning behind it.

I made my first batch of bone broth last week and personally - the taste was a little much for me to handle. I choked it down, but it wasn't easy!

I'm completely open to consuming things that are optimal for my health, I just perfer to have data to back it up.

At this time, for me anyway, if i'm going to "learn" to like bone broth I would be interested to know for what reason!

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Question - if we "Chip In" and not enough money is collected to perform the tests, are we refunded? – DanielleO812 Mar 19 2012 at 16:02
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 I personally don't feel the need to drink the broth straight. I add my favorite meats and vegetables and enjoy stews. It's whatever you like and enjoy. – Nance Mar 19 2012 at 16:15
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 I've learned that I like it "in stuff" more than drinking it straight. Every time I make anything that would normally call for water, I use a jar or three of broth. The flavor of my homemade creations has actually improved quite a bit since I've been doing this. I usually only drink a cup of it by itself when I first make it to test the flavor and such. The rest I put in jars and refrigerate/freeze. – Invisible Caveman Mar 19 2012 at 16:18
Ah yes, that's what I'm talkin' about Nance! :) – Invisible Caveman Mar 19 2012 at 16:19
@DanielleNO812 Absolutely. Or we just do a subset of the tests (e.g., just the $180 test) if the chipper-inners prefer that. – Terry Mar 19 2012 at 16:20
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I like this idea, but I think it misses some of the big benefits (IMO) of bone broths- glucosamine/chondroitin (what else am I missing?)

I agree that values would vary highly depending on how you make bone broth, but I still think this would be helpful to get an idea what orders of magnitude we're talking about when it comes to the tested elements.

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Hey. They offer Glucosamine & Chondroitin testing. I'll get the pricing. – Terry Mar 19 2012 at 17:19
Ack, Glucosamine is $250 and Chondroitin is $400. – Terry Mar 19 2012 at 17:48
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A mineral analysis seems useless to me. Based on the study I posted above there will probably not be a lot of calcium or magnesium in it. If those 2 minerals aren't abundant, then I don't think any minerals will be.

Like PaleoGal, I am way more interested in glucosamine, chondroitin, ... It's probably a good idea to do this seriously and not just go with a mineral test. What would actually be even better is if one of the paleo gurus would take responsability and make a thread on their (popular) blog. Don't get me wrong, Terry, I really really like your idea, but I have no idea who you are. As far as I know you could just be someone who needs money fast and will run away with it. We all need some kind of guarantee if we're gonna "chip in".

And if you happen to do it, make it worthwhile. We need pictures and/or videos, everything we can get!

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 It's the information/documentation that counts. I agree with most of your points and had already raised a few of them, though I wouldn't say that being a "paleo guru" would be better than a "nobody". Every somebody is a nobody at first, right? :) – Invisible Caveman Mar 19 2012 at 18:17
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 That said, though...it would be interesting if like, FTA Richard was doing this and writing it up. Not to say that Terry or anyone else couldn't though, and for that I applaud his effort. – Invisible Caveman Mar 19 2012 at 18:18
Yeah, I like/respect Terry as much as any paleo guru, and I applaud his effort too. It would just be easier to sue a guru if he ran away with my money ;) – Korion Mar 19 2012 at 18:47
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 Oh, I hear you :) same as I'd expect anyone to think if I was the one offering to do something like this. Whole lot easier to say YO ROBB WTF IS OUR $$? – Invisible Caveman Mar 19 2012 at 19:45
To increase the glucosamine and chondroitin in bone broth, add egg shells and shrimp shells to the pot. I save these scraps in the freezer and dump them in with the bones whenever I make broth. – Nels Mar 21 2012 at 17:33
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http://www.jadeinstitute.com/jade/bone-broth-health-building.php

here's a great article.

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0

I think the nutritional content will probably vary significantly depending on the bones and method you use....If you would like to increase the nutritional content, try simmering them on low for a week and keep throwing in fresh bones and vegetables. The bones (some of them) will become so soft they crumble....I've been eating them.

The best bones I've found to use are cows feet, pigs feet, pork hocks and chicken bones. I have yet to try fish.

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The study posted above called "Bone and Vegetable broth" was performed in 1934 on veal bones.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1975347/pdf/archdisch01497-0052.pdf

The calcium content of the broth was not very high. This may have been because veal bones were used. I have been told that chicken bones yield the highest calcium content.

The key to releasing calcium it seems is the use of an acid. Human studies show that an acid diet leads to a higher amount of calcium detected in urine. Although I am not certain that the calcium is being leached from our bones.

I need to do more research.

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