The majority of folks that I have seen, in my experience, that advocate a safe-starch diet aren't necessarily looking for weightloss but for a suppression of physical symptoms and discomfort.

Speaking as a recovering food addict, the only way I have been able to lose weight, whilst staying healthy, is via low-carb paleo. I experimented with carbs and some of my old symptoms came back (slow, leaky gut, gas), and more importantly, I couldn't control my binge impulses. On the weight loss front, the results were disasterous.

What works for me will not work for you, but it can provide a framework for you to develop your own self-experimentation. But what you can (and should) walk away from this knowing, is that every person, while being the same species, is shaped by their genetics, their own neurosis, food concepts, gut bacteria, and histamines that control how, why, and what they can eat.

It can be hard being the lone voice in a small room, and the success of higher carb paleos out there is fairly hard to ignore, but you must find your own voice and know what works for you. Otherwise, you are leaving your health in the hands of strangers, even the well-meaning, well-educated strangers here on Paleohacks.

If a food triggers compulsive eating, you shouldn't eat it. So maybe low-carb works best for you, but if you do eat carbs, I would suggest sticking with the sashimi at the sushi restaurant and limiting yourself severely in terms of carbs to things like PLAIN steamed tubers. Based on my high-carb low-reward paleo experiment, those so suck so bad that you might start to actually even hate carbs.

I know it's often worthless advice since psychologists cost a pretty penny, but if you can, it is worth looking into cognitive behavioral therapy.

What might work for you is no carbs until dinner. Eat a large breakfast and lunch and then for dinner have some carbs.

i feel like i've been struggling very much with the same issues -- the constant back and forth between various "protocols" and feeling the need to justify and adjust my eating plan based on "evidence." most recently i decided to say: SCREW IT too all of that.

like you, i could stand to lose about 20 lbs, so i've tried the low-carb thing, and eliminating all starchy veg, dairy, and fruit. the only thing that happened on that eating plans, is that i started craving a ridiculous amount of dark chocolate (90% but still, if you eat a half a bar or more a day, that doesn't do you any favors). i noticed that when i introduced "safe starches" a la PHD, those cravings immediately stopped. in either scenario my weight actually stays pretty much exactly the same, except that i hold 2-3 lbs. more of water when i eat the starches. i know this is not "real" weight gain, since i can lose it pretty much on command by going low-carb again.

since i'm an active person (occasional bike commute, 1+ hours each way, cross-fit or weight lifting several times a week, running races fairly regularly on weekends, and generally a lot of walking due to living in NYC), i decided that i need the carbs. more than that though, i decided i need to let go of all the mental energy i put into my eating. therefore, i decided to eat based on what i feel like eating, whether carb or not, assuming that my body knows what it needs. and yes, it annoys me that my weight seems to be staying the same, but in the end i'm healthy, i feel great and my mind isn't so preoccupied with eating.

it feels weird to have whole meals without significant amounts of protein - like lunch today was a baby kale salad with sweet potato, avocado, feta, sundried tomato, and sunflower seeds - but i'm currently going through a phase where my body simply doesn't want a lot of protein and fat. why should i convince myself otherwise simply because i can recite a cases of weight loss that deemed eating plenty of protein as crucial? in the end, i'm the only one who can know what makes me feel good at the moment.

i've been doing so much eating based on external cues (research studies, paleo/primal blogs, other people's weight loss success stories...), but in the end it's about what suits ME. if that means that i have rice crackers or rice noodles and a bunch of fruit, so be it. i think the body should be pretty good at self-regulating. as long as i listen closely to my body, i'll head the right direction, and eventually, my body will reflect that.

Well, based on the answers so far, I don't know that your confusion will be cleared up at all. To carb or not to carb is a topic that is almost as polarizing as some in the political sphere. Folks on both sides of the argument are passionate and well-meaning. But we're also pretty much engaged in a philosophical (or physiological) tug-of-war.

I suggest you consider splitting the difference. Go lower carb than you would if eating SAD or the USDA food plate, but not so low that you have to fixate on counting carbs religiously or be anxious about the lack of carbs messing up your metabolism.

Eat small amounts of carbs with meals that also include protein and healthy fat to slow absorption and thus avoid any blood glucose spikes (test for these if you like, but only after you have had carb in your diet for a few days).

Eat fewer carbs on days you are less active. Eat more on days you exercise. Stick with whole food sources of carbs: fruits, tubers, and sure, the occasional white rice.

Think about this as something you practice. Barring food sensitivities or similar issues, there's no reason that you can't periodically indulge with your friends. But see if you can approach your diet so that your diet isn't so restrictive that when you do indulge, it's like a dam bursting. A cheat meal won't hurt occasionally ... it's when that cheat meal turns into cheat week or cheat month (or months) that it's a problem.

And remember, you can always adjust. Stressing about it is certainly not going to help, and since PaleoHacks is unlikely to resolve this for you, you're going to have to go with your gut and experiment with what makes the most sense to you. Best of luck!

I will... find myself out at a sushi restaurant with friends, justifying white rice and sweet potato, and then suddenly I'm down the rabbit hole and eating cups of pineapple or coconut ice cream by the pint. I definitely have an addictive/compulsive personality

It doesn't sound like there is low carb controversy so far as your particular case is concerned. If you gain weight and lose the ability to 'intuitively eat' as soon as you eat any carbs, even 'safe' ones, then you would be better off not eating them. If you could eat just as much white rice/sweet potato as you felt like and then stop then there might be some controversy, but not if it automatically leads to pints of ice cream. Similarly, safe starches might be perfectly satiating if you just eat plain potatos or white rice all day long and so lose interest in eating, but otherwise it may not.

If you think that low carb will lead to bad metabolic effects then I would suggest finding the smallest amount of carbohydrate you can without leading to a landslide of sugar consumption and make it easy on yourself by eating bland carbohydrates possibly from lots of vegetables and eating your carbohydrate after exercise or fasting and with some protein.

Like so many other things with diet, the amount of carbohydrate one should eat will vary from person to person. It sounds like low-ish carb might be a good approach for you, to help you get some cravings under control, but low-carb isn't necessarily the answer for everyone. Someone who's very active will likely do better with some starchy carbs, at least on workout days. Diane Sanfilippo (Balanced Bites) has a "21-Day Sugar Detox" that focuses on limiting certain foods for 3 weeks to get those cravings under control. I'll be trying it out soon, as I still battle a sweet tooth at times, and one little slip can easily send me sliding down the slope... one thing that does help me is to eat some fatty foods when I have those cravings - bacon, avocado/guacamole, or something like that.

What worked for me has varied over time. During the first few months, I ate high protein/fat and low carb. Once I was better nourished, I gradually reduced protein/fat and increased carbs. Nowadays, if you look at total food volume I'm eating about 75% plants and 25% meat. Nutrient density is closer to 50/50 most weeks--on a day-to-day basis that varies widely.

Another evolution has been the breakdown of red meat vs. fish/shellfish; as I became better nourished and healthier my appetite for salmon/sardines/shellfish increased markedly.

I don't "need" a large leafy salad every day anymore but I'm hungry for it 2-3 days per week.

The bottom line for me is don't eat until you're hungry (stomach/gut, not brain) and eat whatever you're hungry for. Doing that definitely causes me to eat less overall but it also causes great variety from day to day and week to week.

A lot of more mainstream researchers ect. are coming around to the low carb for weight loss idea so I'd say that it's probably true.

However low carbs for optimal health is less convincing. I'd pay closer attention to the glycemic load of the meals/snacks you eat that way you can control the insulin exposure of your fat cells without going too low on the carbs.

I don't think your problem is to eat them or not but more so to not have such an all or nothing mentality. I know this from experience. Low Carb will help you lose weight. No doubt. Our bodies just don't need the carbs given we're healthy other ways. But it's OK to eat a few safe starches every once in awhile especially when we're socializing g. Ot because our body needs them but because physiologically you need them to feel normal. And that is OK! It's when you go home and binge because your so upset so you figure what does it matter anyway.

I always say there are two ways to live your life. First you could be in a 30 day detox so things like sweet potatoes and fruit are very sparse and rice non existent. Remember this way of life is more of a short burst of health. Or you live the 80/20 life because face it we're human and need to enjoy life. And if rice and sweet potatoes are your 20 then I say you're on the right track.

• sent from phone sorry for silly mistakes.

This may be coming a little late, but based on my experimentation with both Paleo and Primal diets, I say you might have more successes going Primal.

Primal is essentially very close to Paleo in terms of low carb and a significant protein intake with lots of veggies, but the difference is that you partake in saturated fats, as well as other fats, which keep you full and VERY satisfied.

I'm working more so on going as close to Primal as possible.

This may help.

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I had to double check to make sure I hadn't posted this question myself and just forgotten! I also have been dabbling with more carbs lately and “fell down the rabbit hole”. I find certain carbs make me yearn uncontrollably for junk food. Perhaps the relationship with carbohydrates can best be likened to alcohol. Most people tolerate a certain amount just fine; others get drunk and pee in the closet. Are some of us are just “carboholics” and will forever need to avoid them for better or worse? Of course it is much easier to avoid booze, carbs are everywhere! I do not think avoiding carbs makes you binge on them later; anymore then avoiding alcohol would make you binge on it later.

My question would be “why carbs?” Does it make you feel better to consume them? Do they lend something to your health goals? If not, ditch them!

It would be wise of you to resolve your emotional/mental issues surrounding food rather than continuing to stress on the amount of carbohydrates you are eating. You will be healthier in the long run.

Low carb is significantly more effective for men than it is for women. As a woman, your biological need for carbohydrate is greater than men's and you will not see the same rapid and easy weight loss a man does simply by going low carb. Check out Stefani Ruper's woman-targeted advice here: http://www.paleoforwomen.com/carbohydrates-for-fertility-and-health/

Personally I don't low-carb, but the bulk of my carbs do come from vegetables. But because I know my body needs starches, I aim to eat a decent portion of safe starches (potatoes, sweet potatoes, white rice) about once a week, and usually end up eating some about 2-3 times in the week just before my period. I don't do this religiously, it's just what feels right/works for me.