Let's not make the mistake of comparing apples to oranges or pears or whatever as if they are the same. Trying to force one bodytype into the mold of another is where I think we get into trouble.

Ectomorphs and mesomorphs can sometimes couch potato their way into looking like an endomorph (but sometimes not), and endomorphs or mesomorphs, can sometimes starve themselves to look like ectomorphs (but again sometimes not).

Given good nutrition, enough but not too much exercise, and freedom from major health issues people will drift towards what is a healthy weight for their type and there is quite a bit of variety in body fat between the types.

Glamorous bathing beauties from days of yore. I see a fair amount of variety here. I think images like these are important for women to see.

Your answer is in your question.

I came across a few sites that mention that women who are paleo are often not even close to being as lean as Paleo men.

Like it or not, this is by design. The way I like to put it, is that a proper adherence to Paleo is about resetting your body to "factory defaults", so that things like digestion, skin/hair/nail health, obesity, and autoimmune disorders are rectified. Naturally, women have been shaped by evolution to not be as lean as men so they can sustain a healthy reproductive system, and another life within them (if they so choose).

Going beyond to the "hacking" phase of paleo is about tailoring it to specific goals such as the dieter's concept of the ideal body, athletic performance, cost, etc...

I remember once I dated a really rather ignorant guy and he was bragging about his body fat was 10%. I told him mine was 22% and he was like "whoa, that is so fat, that is like, so surprising because you look really good." ಠ_ಠ

As someone already linked my blog above, all I can say is that fat has a purpose in women, which is fertility. It's also been discussed here quite extensively.

Also, here is my comment from BB's FB page, where I got into a discussion with a girl who enjoys getting her body to low body fat: ""Plus, how do we know we need to have a montly period anyway? Certainly paleo women from healthy cultures were not always having monthly periods." Yeah, because they were PREGNANT or LACTATING. Not because they were malnourished. I think it's great you have a recreational hobby of being lean, but this post is against portraying that as the ideal, rather than a hobby for a select group of women who happen to enjoy it as you do. When you start rationalizing amenorrhea, that's when it stops being a hobby and starts becoming dysfunctional. You have to be realistic about the costs and benefits of extreme leanness. Some women have low set points and can maintain their fertility and normal cycles even with low body fat, others can not. When you are in the tail ends of the bell curve for body fat in women, you have A LOT of variation."

So yeah, if you want to go that low, have fun, be aware of any signs of problems since not all women can get that low without wrecking their hormones, but don't pretend it has anything to do with evolutionary nutrition or paleo.

Did you see this? http://ancestralizeme.com/2012/03/27/paleo-women-are-phat/ I was just discussing this in another arena, and I think it's time that we really get the word out that if health is our goal, women need more fat than men. And why would anything besides optimal health be our goal??? Striving for a lean body has gotten me in a lot of trouble in my past, and I am now simply striving for health. These two ideas will never be one and the same for me and my body. Mainstreaming women's REAL health sounds like a very exciting idea, yes?

I love Melissa's article on Hunt Gather Love. http://huntgatherlove.com/node/680

From eating paleo my body is doing what her's did, getting healthier and getting more womanly looking.

"Breeding or not...what's good for the gonads is good for the girl. I don't think you can selectively choose to harm part of your health, and expect the rest of it to still be tip top. Nature is kind of a bitch too, you can work all day trying to get rid of your hiney, and voila, fat starts to migrate from your brain and bone marrow right back down to your behind, then you are depressed, you develop osteoporosis, and the pants you were hoping to fit into still don't zip...which I think judging from the plethora of boniva and antidepressant ads is the plight of modern women in a nutshell." – Happy Now 19 hours ago

This needs to be on a billboard somewhere... everywhere. I love it.

Anecdotally, my best friend is one of those people that will do something just to prove that she is capable. For instance, she ran a marathon after only a few weeks of training and finished. Then, for some crazy reason, she decided to train for a fitness competition. You know the type where women get down to sub 10 body fat, get super tan and model in front of judges? Well she is in her final days before the show and she is in absolute hell. She has been training for 6 months, on a super restrictive diet for more than 4 months, consisting mostly of lean protein and steamed veg.. with a little protein powder or oats mixed in when she is looking to party. For the past 2 weeks she has been experiencing extreme muscular pain so she went to see a neuromuscular therapist. Immediately he could see that she had a broken tail bone, 2 slipped disks and that her right hip sits 5 inches higher than her left. This is of course due to overtraining to get down to competition level. Not only that, but she is obviously extremely malnourished and her hormones are jacked. She is 6'4'' and weighs 154 pounds at this point... subsequently has not had a period in 3 months.

I realize this is an extreme situation, but... I do not see her as much different than the women at the gym that slog away on the stair master for hours on end, go home and nibble on some fat free pudding and wake up every day thinking they are fat and worthless. As soon as my bff starts to eat again all that weight is going to come back with a vengeance (thank goodness).. point here is really that yes, women naturally carry more fat than men.. it is a fact of biology. Why not embrace it rather than kill yourself to look like some wacky ideal in your probably depressed head?

I guess it makes me sad that this issue keeps arising. I've loved the articles and reflections that have been surfacing on the interwebs, but I am sad that so much energy is being paid to what the body looks like by smart, interesting, capable women. I think it's one aspect of so many relevant parts of a person's well-being. Of course, I like to look in the mirror and like what I see, but I also want to be smart, interesting, fulfilled, happy, etc. and I hate how many women put thin or ripped or lean in front of so many other wonderful goals to have.

I get it, and I empathize, I'm just sorry about how much energy the quest for slim/lean can take away from other interesting and wonderful goals.

(stepping down off soapbox now).

Hi there,

I am 25, yet childless, having some exercise occasionally (trying to do it 4 times a week). I'm on paleo for 1.5 year now. I do not think men are only attracted to skinny women. It is false. Everyone has diff. types. I am not skinny, I look fit. I have approx. 4kg plus on me. I had it lost when starting on paleo but saw no difference in the attraction of men towards me.

Here's the secret Ladies: Men are not attracted to body fat percentage. Men are attracted to confident women!!!

So just feel healthy and don't give a... Be paleo.

If you look at pictures of women who have had DEXA (dual x-ray absorptiometry) scans done corresponding to their pictures, it's obvious that women, for fans of all aesthetics except for Ms. Skeletor, are much more attractive and closer to fulfilling the tenets of those aesthetics than men at equal bodyfat percentages. That is only one reason why men-to-women is a bad comparison. Example: http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showpost.php?s=d3d4df741daf179f24ff045fc1456135&p=154301&postcount=3715

She is at 19%, according to the scan, and not really my cup of Nuwara Eliya high orange broken pekoe. Everyone is different, of course, and she may be able to be this low in bodyfat and not have any health consequences. This also may be true at lower percentages--I'm not for discriminating against healthy low-BF women anymore than the opposite. I have sub-q (and likely visceral) abdominal fat even at 15% BF(though i'm not advocating for gut-acceptance in dudes--mine is a risk factor for all the metabolic diseases that have lowered, and shortened, quality of life for elderly males in my family)

I've met a few women who follow a paleo diet and in general they look great. They have amazing skin, and look very healthy and happy. Albeit, not necessarily the "Cosmo covergirl." Women are designed to have a little more fat on them than the guys. It's normal. Much of the crazy notion women have they are too fat and always seem to have this need to become thinner is dangerous marketing. I had said on one of the other blogs I read where this same question came up. This is mostly all just the media telling the women they need to be skinny for whatever reason. The models in women's magazines are terrible. Most men don't even find them attractive. Don't believe me? Drop the cosmo and pick up a playboy. Those women are not pencil thin, I promise. And clearly men find them attractive. Drop the impossible media image, get it out of your head and embrace a little extra fat that women need!

So I have a follow up question. If fat helps for reproductive health in women, why does it not go away post menopause? If anything, it seems like women get even more likely to hold on to their fat post menopause, which doesn't make sense based upon this vision. Thoughts?

I think that the stock answer that of "fat for reproductive health" gets used here way too often.

Are we assuming that ALL WOMEN on here are simply after reproductive health? Is it not possible that some women who are Paleo have decided (heaven forbid) to not have children? Does that not allow them to be Paleo?

Also, is it not possible that some women are seeking other goals, ie. competition or perhaps having their optimal physique while still young and not even thinking about reproduction (YET)? (not saying that they shouldn't think of it for the future and be healthy now)

But i just think its so narrow minded to say "women should have fat because they are designed to have babies. the end"

There is a lot more perspectives, goals and views than that.

Is it possible for women to get as lean as men? Yes. Is it optimal? I would say in most cases, no. As jj commented, women's bodies retain more fat (and require more fat) for reproduction and child-bearing. Most women will settle at a higher body fat percentage than men, and pushing your body below that probably isn't too healthy.

i did a hydrostatic dunk and got 17.2% and i definitely still have visible fat (inner thigs, hips, butt). i was shocked it was that low but my kettlebell trainers said they were at 14% and 15% and that it doesn't stop your period or anything like that. i was really skeptical of that but really wanted to believe that my body fat was that low.

is it that the tank underestimates body fat? they were so nonchalant about such low numbers.

"Beauty is not a woman. It’s a man’s idea of a woman." - Quentin Crisp on glamour

Let your unconscious mind sit and marinate in that for an hour or so while your grass-fed meats marinate in their own juices ;) and re-visit this question again.

We are visual beings and #'s, %'s, and all that other jazz assert our need to categorize our observations on a need-to-know basis. What you see is a spectrum of beauty in terms of what 'looks' and determines sexiness and health is a cocktail of social, cultural, and perhaps at this point in our evolutionary development: biological.

Health is wealth but if I can see the world through bacon-tinted glasses then forget the wealth, I'll just sit back and enjoy the view ;)

As I study for my final exam in my human sexuality course, I think it's important to not forget that it is all about the waist-to-hip ratio! You can be at a higher body-fat with an ideal waist-to-hip ratio (0.7) and be viewed as more attractive than a women of lower body fat and have a higher waist-to-hip ratio (0.8, etc).

http://www.springerlink.com/content/n1781r3020218qtk/