Meh. A little nastiness is okay by me. Frankly, I think we need to call out the bullshit. I've been brutally corrected here and it was painful, but it made me more careful not to just parrot whatever I had read or heard.

And overall, most people here are pretty nice and respectful. The mods also do a decent job of not letting things get out of control.

I suppose that in wanting "paleo" to be as correct as possible, people can get riled up. We have to hash it out. I can remember many vehemently disagreeing with eating potatoes, for example. Now it seems that very few are totally opposed to it - even if they eat low carb themselves...

I find that most of the users of this site try to be genuinely nice and helpful. I also find I have learned a lot and continue to learn a lot.

I also find that every once in awhile I just get sick of the nastiest that comes out, the immaturity and the competition to be the most scientific (even when the science being quoted is biased, inaccurate etc.) People on this site love to poke fun at conventional wisdom about nutrition and medicine, yet I find they are more than willing to sling around their own inaccurate conventional wisdom. I find this extremely frustrating.

The attacks on people, not just their ideas, though are intolerable. When it gets to be too much, I stop coming to the site for awhile. So far, I've kept coming back, but each time I've gone away, I've stayed away longer.

If I was going to draw a line as a modifier, I would flag any attack on a person. Attack my ideas, attack my science, whatever. But when you attack me (or any other person), that's disrespectful and immature and stifles the communication of genuine ideas and support which I believe is the purpose of this site.

Compared to most online forums, I would say that PH is pretty friendly over all. However, some of the Paleo Orthodox ilk get annoying.

For instance, someone asks for a recipe for a paleo-friendly version of a neolithic comfort food. Let's just say pancakes.

Half the thread consists of actual answers to the question.

One quarter of the thread consists of comments underneath the answers saying things like "That sounds yummy! I'm going to try that" or make some other positive comment.

A quarter of the thread? The Paleo Re-enactment folks climb on the pulpit and preach to us about the fact that they don't crave these types of foods anymore and they can't imagine why someone else would, so why bother making "paleo friendly foods" blah blah blah.

I think it's great that some folks eat like a cave man. Fantastic. But if someone is really doing their best to improve their health, who are we to tell them that their understanding of Paleo is wrong? Keep off the high horse and keep it positive, please!

I think I can say with some objectivity as someone who has been here since pretty much the beginning that there was at some point a qualitative shift in the direction of nasty. I'd say it was about a year ago, about halfway into the lifespan of Paleohacks.

Who knows what the reasons are, but last spring I went from thinking of this place as for the most part friendly and cooperative to thinking of it as for the most part combative and non-cooperative. Even at the beginning there were some spats here and there, but the change brought with it a general sense that there was some ill will present -- and when not explicitly present then at least lurking behind the scenes, always threatening to return.

This is a significant downside to the site, but I of course still think it has tremendous value, both for beginners who want to learn about ancestral/biologically sound/paleo/human eating, and for paleosphere connoisseurs who need a place to debate.

DOWNVOTED YOU LOW-CARB PEATARIAN NO_NOTHING. GO BACK TO YOUR MEAT JELLO EATING.

I bow (because I am not worthy) to the culture as defined by Patrik.

"This is not a discussion board nor a blog, this is a place for questions that can be answered!

Be nice.

Treat others with the same respect you'd want them to treat you. We're all here to learn together. Be tolerant of others who may not know everything you know. Bring your sense of humor."

If that's our standard, I feel PH has in fact gone past my comfort level of nasty in some threads. If Patrik is okay with that he just needs to say so and I will decide whether or not I wish to continue as a member.

I see a lot of people feel the same way as myself: it is pretty darn tame for the internet, but there have been a few lines crossed.

The only criticism on a whole for the paleohack forum would be disrespect to other people in the population, even if they are not present. Actually, especially for groups that aren't represented. Criticizing parents in a "you did this to your kid, you are evil", criticizing the overweight/obese as "way to fall for the pyramid scheme, you less-intelligent others", general tarring of all medical professionals for "covering up the symptoms", and other attacks that aren't directed at members, but just generally make me feel like things are a little too nasty. From the recent blog posts and general murmuring amongst female paleo-ers, we know that the same problem has surfaced here as in the vegan movement: people want to look good, and if they feel like they don't look good, than they are disappointed that they are not the adequate representation of the paleo lifestyle. This attitude is present whenever any "new food thing" surfaces and starts getting media attention, as the whole group wants to put it's best foot forward, in a way, as proof. You see that on the forums now, that if you don't look good yet you aren't doing it right, but I think the regular users are aware of this and keep it well-controlled and surprisingly tame.

That being said, I mean there have been religious questions on here with a multitude of faiths responding that did not dissolve in bubbling, bitter chaos, which is a pretty good way to gauge that things are pretty good over all.

"You take the good, you take the bad you take them both and there you have"....PaleoHacks

I have learned so much and met so many amazing people through paleohacks. I've also had some interesting run-ins and had some pulse pounding angry moments courtesy of this forum.

It's hard for an online forum like this not to get nasty. I think a lot is due to the lack of the ability to set tone in written communication (like in emails). Sometimes things get misconstrued.

There has been so much focus lately on mud-slinging, name calling and quack watching. I'm tired of it. I want to get back to the exchange of information and helping each other out.

Time to get back to the good ole Thumper rule "If you don't have anything nice to say...."

I don't really participate as a registered user in many other online forums, except for a few Facebook groups. I do, however, use other forums if I want to learn varied subjects quickly (eg. Samsung Galaxy forum, Backyard Chickens forum, Dangerously Hardcore forum, GardenWeb forum, even MDA). I don't think I've seen very much hostility in the non-diet/exercise forums very much at all. However, many diet and exercise forums tend to get pretty nasty from time to time. So Paleohacks doesn't strike me as unique in this way. However, if I were a Paleo Luminary I prolly would not read this forum very often (I actually am pretty thin skinned) and in fact I think Chris Kresser mentioned recently that he NEVER reads PH (I don't really blame him.) BUT maybe we need to take note of this.

As a user of PH and a sometimes snarky remark maker (I promise to stop posting while drinking - I PROMISE!) I have to say that I an going to try to turn over a new leaf! I will try to stop operating from the base of the pyramid and instead will focus on balancing at the tip top. MODS - If you could please make this image a permanent fixture on the side bar over here -----> that will help to keep me on point. You can even name it "For Meredith."

BUT there are people here who are quite adept at making sure their arguments are focused at the top of this pyramid. If you are upset and THINK that someone is being nasty because they do not agree with you, try formulating your response by "explicitly refuting THEIR central point."

First of all, to encompass all that is "Jackson" I absolutely detest Janet and besides some choice Jackson 5 tracks - "Off The Wall" is the only Michael Jackson record that is good. Thriller can suck it.

Errmm... on occasion it gets kinda angry eyed around here but not much.

Overall I think it's pretty great and I've learned a lot. I'm kind of goofy when I post but for a reason - I want whatever I post to be friendly and all encompassing in hopes that there's a good takeaway for all. Negativity has it's place but it gets boring after awhile. I mean, I'll argue but when it just becomes unproductive I'm done.

And finally, having milk crates physically flung at you by your boss, ahhh chefs, we can talk nasty. Besides being fantastic for storage those mofos hurt like hell.

Did you ask about jerky too? Yes, I like jerky.

Welcome to the Internet!

YES!!!! The response to some people becomes a personal attack rather than attacking their ideas. What some perceive as funny comes across as very "snarky" to others. Also seems that many of the regulars can dish it out, but can't take it (lots of posts get deleted). The site seems like a Jerry Springer show at times -- one which has no redeeming value, but you can't help but watch (read). Entertaining, but imparting no value or knowledge at all.

Do I find paleohacks to be more nasty than other internet forums? Ha ... I used to do wedding catering back in the day. Now there were some nasty forums! Wanna start a major war? Just say why you are or aren't doing a money dance or a bouquet toss and then run for cover ;).

On a serious note, I do find PH periodically nasty. But I usually figure that is coming from a defensive position (the best defense is a good offiense) because someone feels their held-dear viewpoint is being threatened. And it's just pretty easy to write stuff you wouldn't say face-to-face.

This forum is WAY more civil than one I followed briefly for expats here in Switzerland (until I left in disgust). When things get out of hand here, usually another member comes into the comments and reminds the parties to remain polite. I particularly like the comments option under the answers - it's a way to join or start a discussion without necessarily committing to an answer. I also like the humor here. When things start getting overheated or overwraught, usually someone steps in with some humor and re-sets the tone.

Although I agree with Nance that it's important to "be nice," I have to admit I sometimes get a little annoyed when people ask questions that have already been extensively covered or keep asking the same question repeatedly, just with different wording. I bow to the moderators for being patient and gently editing the questions or suggesting sites that could be visited or threads that could be researched. Great job, guys.

This is one of the nicest online communities I've ever been involved with.

In nearly all online discourse, I find that people tend to infer feelings (especially negative ones) where no negativity was implied.

• Implication ==> "what I believe I send to you"
• Inference ==> "what you perceive to receive"
• There is no rule that what is inferred equals what was implied

For example, responding to a question with a question in meatspace can be readily construed as rude. Here, it is a matter of course, and should not be perceived as rude.

There are occasions where people use comments to be nasty (avoiding the down vote?).

It seems open season on some members of the forum. If you do not like their ideas is it really ok to put them down instead of have an open and/or even heated discussion about what they have said?

We even have one member that gets a lot of flack every time they post. And they provide amazing answers.

We do not always roll out the welcome mat to new posters. Some receive amazing answers and some on rare occasion are made fun of.

Mostly perfect in Paleohack land. However some rough edges also.

I started this as a comment on Heidi's answer, but I thought I'd add it as my 2 cents.

I could not agree more [with the distaste for personal attacks on the site]. If anyone wants to debate an issue or point of science I'm all ears (eyes) and want to read all sides. The minute I see a personal attack thinly disguised as a question, I turn off. And unfortunately, I see it all too frequently lately.

And maybe I'm sticking my neck out here, because you don't want to bite the hands that feed you, but it really upsets me when I see the moderators joining in rather than stepping back and saying "this really isn't in the spirit of PH people". Hey, we're all human and sometimes we all get caught up in emotion, but it's important to realize that they set the tone for the site, and when new folks see moderators engaging in this kind of behavior they automatically assume (as most would) that it's OK to do so.

I have learned so much from this site and have nothing but respect and gratitude for 99% of the members and moderators and the thoughtful discussions and answers I have seen. My biggest concern is when the nice people start leaving then things tend to spiral downward pretty quickly.

I have consistently found most PH member very cooperative, and some of them incredibly knowledgeable. However my two complains are: that often some questions are deemed to be a repetition of a previous one, without a subtle reading. And therefore the second, perhaps related yet different question gets eliminated. I have seen this going on several times.

And that often certain interesting yet somewhat general questions e.g. "were pastoralist groups healthier than agriculturalist people" are considered off topic. In the past I had seen very profound debates on similar issues, yet eventually, lately many of these topics came to be overlooked.

I dunno, whaddya want from a bunch of funny monkeys?

I've critiqued the tone of the discussion before, and I've been critiqued for that critique. Lots of critiquing. Everyone has a right to their opinion, which includes having an opinion about the opinion, and an opinion on the opinion of the opinion. (Phew! I think a wormhole just opened up in space somewhere...) It's all valid.

As far as the ridiculous stuff, I would say I've seen far worse. I find PH useful and entertaining for the most part. I don't recall ever flagging anyone for anything, because in general, I don't consider myself to be a fragile daisy whose feelings are too vulnerable to handle the weather out there.

I think it's important to keep in mind that what we see about someone online is but a tiny sliver of a whole, and that that sliver was thrown out in near-anonymity from a lit screen somewhere on Earth. It doesn't mean anything about their character or who they are as a real person (in general). Sound and fury, signifying nothing, and all that.

I find that people on PaleoHacks are more likely to bombard you with their own personal philosophy, even if they are simply trying to be helpful. The other community I frequent also has a dedicated paleo faction, and they are far more likely to advise you based on your wishes as opposed to recommending a total shift.