Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

Question

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I recently was "ganged up on" by few health nuts. I know I know, I should NOT have gotten involved with a FB thread titled, "If I hear another comment about Gluten Free, I'm gonna freak!" but it was just too tempting. lol

Anyway, these days, I'm trying to take more of Robb Wolf's approach and just focus on those that WANT to be helped or WANT to learn more....

However! How would any of you respond(ed) to someone that says, "The VAST MAJORITY of the population THRIVES on grains/wheat, so please give it a rest Craig (GF/Paleo/Realfood talk).

I just laugh,

Craig

flag	asked Apr 5 2012 at 18:06 Craig Almaguer 745●1●5

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I get more positive responses as people see the successes, not just in the weight loss but in the other long standing issues I've dealt with. But if 1 in 133 people are now being diagnosed with celiac disease, then what is going on? It's not just a fad. People are genuinely getting sick and when they go gluten free, they get well. Can't all be psychological. Wish I could hand everyone a copy of the Wheat Belly book. – CJ Apr 5 2012 at 18:55

Curious, do you know where that statistic is on CD? Is it from Dr. Davis, or have you found it else where? – Craig Almaguer Apr 5 2012 at 19:07

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Craig, the figure comes from a recent study by Alessio Fasano, Director, Center for Celiac Research at the U. of MD Medical School. See here: celiac.com/articles/647/1/… – Todd B Apr 5 2012 at 19:56

Yes, he does use that state. In the US that means just over two million people. See nih.gov they have that stat, so guess that confirms it. – CJ Apr 5 2012 at 20:02

auto correct working well stat – CJ Apr 5 2012 at 20:04

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ulcova · Answer 1 · 2012-04-05 18:46:50Z UTC

"The vast majority of the population thrives on grains/wheat!" Over the 5 decades of my life I learned to always respond with a question if confronted with an empty slogan like that. So in this case I would just ask what population, where, and when (what ethnic group where and when).

If told nowadays in the USA I'd question if he/she has ever looked outside the window or turned on the TV these past decades. I'd also have them define the term "thrive".

It also took me half my life until it finally made click in my head about grains not being species appropriate for us, picturing how long it would take me to collect grass seeds in the wild to come up with the amount needed to bake and cook all grain foods the average Westerner eats daily.

When I was growing up in Europe in the 60's our traditional diet was very paleo"ish", the occasional oatmeal in winter, a slice or two of bread per day, and a piece of pastry on Sunday. Much, much less than what is being consumed today. And my home nation's health is going downward, not upward since then.

I myself never get into discussions like that, but if I have to I like to stick to simple answers and counter questions because I also understand where those slogans come from and that for someone who doesn't immediately react to his wheat bread (yet) it is hard to grasp the idea of bread being foreign food to our species although it's actually so clear as can be.

Clint · Answer 2 · 2012-04-05 19:23:38Z UTC

I think we need to realize that all this Paleo business is all one huge n=1. I think that the Paleo diet is a very good baseline to get everything back in working order. Once you get inflammation and weight regulated, there is a lot of room for variation. Be it high fat/low carb/moderate protein, High carb/Low fat/Moderate protein, ketogenic, Paleo+dairy, or whatever. Human beings are beautifully unique. I have a friend that thrives on a high fat, lowish carb paleo diet. I, however, feel tons better with a high carb (55-60%), lower fat paleo diet. I did 2 months strict paleo to get myself feeling 100%. Then I started adding things and seeing how I reacted.

Now that I've done some playing around I've come to what I call my "Optimal" diet: Lean meats (no red meat-makes me bloated), fruits, vegetables, sweet potatoes, Goats milk/kefir, and some gluten free grains.

I refuse to believe that all grains are inherently evil. But I do believe that gluten is a filthy, dirty wh#re.

Eat Real Food. Avoid twinkies, ho-ho's, dingdongs, alfredo sauce, and McDonald's. Also avoid most people wearing croc's and shape-ups.

Derek · Answer 3 · 2012-04-05 22:24:41Z UTC

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I have a hard time when I see one of my friends vegangelizing on facebook. I just start asking about the need for b12 supplements and the internet implodes into nothingness along with their mind. It's actually quite a liberating feeling watching it as I kick my feet up eating my steak.

edited Apr 5 2012 at 22:24

answered Apr 5 2012 at 20:20

Derek
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+1 Vegangelizing is the word of the day now :) – Jen Apr 5 2012 at 20:48

+1 for vegangelizing! Great word. – redberry Apr 6 2012 at 17:58

Mscott · Answer 4 · 2012-04-05 19:40:24Z UTC

I think the burden of proof for such statement is placed upon the person making it. How do they conclude that the majority of people are thriving on wheat? You certainly couldn't look at the wheat eating Americans and think that with the vast quantities of people with obesity, diabetes, and heart disease that that is evidence that we're "thriving" on wheat. Sure, I doubt wheat is solely to blame for this, but it doesn't back up such a claim about the majority of people thriving on wheat.

And interesting that asian populations like Japan have such low rates of obesity and appear much healthier than other industrialized countries while consuming much less gluten containing grains. Again, this doesn't prove anything, but it doesn't bolster such claims about people "thriving" on wheat.

So I would respond by asking: where is the proof? Is this based of studies? Observations? Or just the misunderstanding that the word "thrive" means scraping by on with meager health, ignorant to how much better you could feel.

It's been a long day, so that turned into more of a rant than I had planned. I probably would have gotten involved with such a thread as well. Though I think Robb Wolf's approach is a good one; not everyone wants to hear everyone bang the drum of the newest diet fad and it might allow people to be more receptive if it isn't being crammed down their throat.

MrsD · Answer 5 · 2012-04-05 18:12:27Z UTC

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I found that happening to me today after reading this article:

http://jezebel.com/5899319/stop-using-cavemen-as-an-excuse-for-your-fad-diet

Even though I knew better, I found myself responding to some ignorant comments.

I never tell anyone about the paleo diet because I cannot be bothered with ignorant comments.I simply say that I don't eat gluten and leave it at that.

It's easier.

answered Apr 5 2012 at 18:12

MrsD
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that was such a stupid article! there is some disappointment here- I have enjoyed some funny witty articles from Jezebel but this was just down right stupid... the author and those idiots need to check out Mark's site for success stories- that right there inspired me to make primal changes- I saw people who were like me suffering before and their after - not so much! lol. – LexxyV Apr 6 2012 at 3:02

CoachCanadan · Answer 6 · 2012-04-05 18:39:00Z UTC

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I would ask their definition of "thrive". Grains have allowed the planet to become over-populated, sure, but how could you say that even the US is "thriving", considering how many people are sick with diet and lifestyle-related disease? It's a ridiculous statement on its face. Then I'd go and lift some weights. :)

answered Apr 5 2012 at 18:39

CoachCanadan
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	Consider Asians, who consume grains and are notoriously healthy. – conciliator Apr 5 2012 at 18:42
	Stop thinking that just cause you don't like/do well with grains that they're inherently evil. – conciliator Apr 5 2012 at 18:42
	Watch out, Craig...looks like, from the comments above, you might get ganged up on here, too. Conciliator--Asians are having rising rates of the "diseases of civilization", they are NOT notoriously healthy. Grains have changed to have higher gluten content. (GMOs) Ahh, Paleohacks might need to hack the membership. – Julie Apr 5 2012 at 18:50
	All good. I'm just looking at the comments. funny. @conciliator, I classify grains in the "inherently evil" category (again, mostly wheat) if knowing that most of America could do better without. – Craig Almaguer Apr 5 2012 at 18:59
	In Wheat Belly, Dr. Davis talks at length about how grains have changed over the centuries, but in particular in the past 50 years. Genetics has played a huge role. Plus to add extra fluff to our bread we add more gluten. I know, I baked homemade wheat bread everyday for probably 18 years. – CJ Apr 5 2012 at 20:16

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VB · Answer 7 · 2012-04-05 18:43:27Z UTC

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I would say this according to Mayo Clinic gastroentherologist http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKwKQ7W9qlM the celiac disease is increasing at an alarming rate. One person out of 100 has celiac disease now. It has become 5 times more common now then it was 50 years ago.

The scary part is that most gluten sensitive people HAVE NO IDEA that they need to stay away from gluten. Silent/undiagnosed celiac sufferers are more likely to die from other causes and those deaths could be prevented by eating gluten free diet.
And Paleo is a perfect example of a gluten-free diet.

As a matter of fact, if another doctor out there will suggest eating whole grain wheat, I will probably bite his head off. Or not, if it is not gluten-free :)

answered Apr 5 2012 at 18:43

VB
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100% here you VB! I was that guy who "could eat anything" most of my life. Soccer, running, lifting. NOTHING could stop me. But "tried" going grain free and WOKE UP! Now it makes total sense. The challenge is doing it on a large scale. I think as a planet, we're all fucked, but for now I'm trying to do the best I can for my body (and my family). – Craig Almaguer Apr 5 2012 at 19:03

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Eating gluten ruined my health... I wish somebody would tell me this much much earlier, especially the registered dietitian I worked with or my doctor. I do not believe in giving up. We can still save this planet! – VB Apr 5 2012 at 19:59

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@VB, it's funny. Since being GF, I've actually pondered how much better I could have been in my college days playing soccer. I recall a few times after a game, then going to eat at a smoogusboard all you can eat place and LOADING up on pasta, veggies, sauces, crap meat, etc thinking I needed to get the carbs back in me (true to a point), but then 20 minutes later having the bus driver pull over for an emergency stop. Lot's of sprained ankles, inflamitory related injuries, skin issues, cramping, bloating, gas, blah, blah. Yeah, I'd say I'm a bit intolerent. – Craig Almaguer Apr 5 2012 at 21:31

twochickadeez · Answer 8 · 2012-04-05 18:43:10Z UTC

If I read a comment about that on FB, I would ignore it. When I discuss my diet with people who ask, I basically tell them that I've never felt better in my life. I don't feel compelled to explain the science behind it because, quite honestly, I don't know if I fully understand it or believe it all myself. I can't be bothered to read this stuff all the time. All I know is that when I eat this way I feel and perform my best. I think it's best to lead by example and let them eat their words.

Matt · Answer 9 · 2012-04-05 21:14:32Z UTC

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I'll agree with the anti-anti-gluten gang to a point: Most people do just fine eating gluten. I know Robb Wolf and other paleo gurus say otherwise, but it just doesn't make sense that something as ubiquitous as gluten is making everybody sick (without symptoms).

Now, is gluten/wheat optimal for health? Hell no.

answered Apr 5 2012 at 21:14

Matt
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It's one of those things, "don't knock it tell you try it" type things. However, to a newbie "attempting" Paleo for the first time, it can be VERY challenging for some that have been eating LOTS of bread/pasta all their lives. It's almost a tolerence that's built up. So, they experience some serious "crashes" and then quit and say, it doesn't work. I say you need to run it through a MINIMUM of 45 days (honestly working it) and THEN you'll know if it's "ubiquitous"...I pretty much guarantee you'll notice differences. Now, are they enough to stick with it? That's gonna be your call, right? – Craig Almaguer Apr 5 2012 at 21:37

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The gene correlated with celiac disease, specifically, the HLA DQ2.5 isoform, is found in 25% of American caucasians (and in > 90% of celiacs). And I think I read somewhere that is was closer to 30% overall (not just caucasian Americans). It wouldn't surprise me if it turned out that the 25% - 30% of the population with HLA-DQ2.5 were sensitive to gluten to some extent, even if they haven't (yet) gotten full blown celiac disease. So I think having a blanket recommendation to cut out gluten, re-challenge, and see how you feel, is a great idea. – Sara S. Apr 5 2012 at 21:39

Lots of people seem to do fine with sugar too and may not develop diabetes. But what about tired feeling, acne, maybe even some mild joint aches. Maybe they don't even think of sugar as a factor. Goes back to that idea of thrive vs. survive. – CJ Apr 5 2012 at 23:16

@Craig, I agree with trying gluten-free for some time. Heck, I was strict gluten-free for months, and reintroduction went without a hitch. I could be one of the lucky 70-75% (i.e. the majority) of the population that is not celiac or gluten-intolerant. I would guess that the restrictive nature of the paleo diet tends to promote gluten-intolerant people to stick with it. Gluten-tolerant folks, such as myself, have less short-term incentive to stay gluten-free paleo. – Matt Apr 5 2012 at 23:20

I've noticed no change in any measure of health going from gluten-free to occasionally glutened myself. Again, I think this points to gluten-intolerant folks who go paleo, stay paleo. Gluten-tolerant folks have less incentive. – Matt Apr 6 2012 at 0:26

How would you respond? I recently was “ganged up on” by few health nuts…

9 Answers