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I'm not sure whether I should IF or follow Kruse and his ideas on leptin reset. I'm no genius, so if I come across as stupid for not reading up enough on these, I apologize in advance.

Anyway, I'm hoping to lose fat and put on a little muscle. I've been IF with two meals, skipping breakfast. I've actually gained weight and haven't weighed this much in over a year and half. I'm uncomfortable at this weight and feel my best about 10 lbs less. I know it's probably too soon to make conclusions, especially because I haven't been adhering to paleo 100%.

But I am wondering if it is better to do the leptin reset and eat breakfast (instead of skipping it) with less than the "50 g protein" (maybe 20?) general recommendation because I'm short and probably not as active as others who follow it.

Which would work better for weight loss? The only issue I'm worried about is that when I eat breakfast, I tend to want to binge more later during the day. Skipping breakfast comes pretty easily. I don't like the "risk" of eating early in the morning...

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14 Answers

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Go for the leptin reset.

From: http://paleohacks.com/questions/46722/how-do-i-lose-weight#axzz1rUJ4ZsiT

CORTISOL AND GREHLIN:

The bad guys...

Keeping the intense portion of your workout (Start to finish) below 45 minutes should keep cortisol away. Also relaxing keeps it away. Cortisol takes away lean muscle which is bad for weight loss. Because each pound of muscle burns calories for you.

Grehlin or why did I just eat an entire bag of oreos, chips, etc.. Or even why did I eat so much Paleo approved food...

Sleep and meals reduce grehlin levels. Lack of sleep means higher grehlin levels. Grehlin levels go down when you eat. So fasting is a more advanced technique and if you are still devouring massive food after dinner than it is not time to add fasting yet.

So to beat grehlin sleep at least 7 hours (Likely you need more)... And eat a big protein breakfast, eat lunch and dinner.

Grehlin builds after each meal so go to bed early will help with the munchies and staying up late is a trigger...

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Love your awesome answers. And for what it's worth, I always put heavy weight (no pun intended) on what you suggest. – Sunny Beaches Apr 8 2012 at 19:32
Sunny Beaches. I just added more information. – Eric Apr 9 2012 at 5:13
Thank You Sunny Beaches. I just added more to the answer. Best Wishes – Eric Apr 9 2012 at 5:14
Yeah Eric, like your answers too!!! :) – Maria Anna Apr 9 2012 at 20:05
Thank You Maria!! – Eric Apr 10 2012 at 0:26
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When did IF or Jack's little plan become the only answers for those who wish to lose weight? I cringe! Long before we knew of either people were losing weight and doing just fine.

If you have any history of binge disorder or other ED I beg of you not to do either. Forced intake or deprivation is NOT a good thing for your game plan.

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IF isn't THE answer to weight loss. It certainly can help. I would, however, not necessarily plunge in before stabilised on a zero grain, low carb diet. – mindmt May 29 at 15:24
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IMHO, IF is a hugely important component of a programme to manage body fat. It cannot be stressed enough to use the tape measure, not the scales, for regular progress checks. Very important to do some resistance exercise, preferably fasted, for additional hormonal stimulus.

I posted on this elsewhere here, but I see some logic to preparing for a fast by following a VLC/ketogenic regimen for as long as it takes to feel comfortable with it. You are then metabolically prepared for a fast of 24hrs (or more, but 24 is ample)

I presume you are doing the 18hr (6hr eating window) IF, and that's OK, as routine/entry level, but I would suggest you consider going 24hrs 2 or 3 times per week, especially for fat loss goals.

How you approach is up to personal preference, but on no account eat after 6pm, and obviously no calorific drinks either. I have tried starting 24hrs after breakfast, lunch and dinner, and have found the dinner option to be the most comfortable.

Re breakfast/18hr regimen, I would say totally fine - but stick to the 6hr eating window - so make sure you do eat a late lunch/early dinner then "nil by mouth" for the evening.

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Fasting beyond the 12-hour mark shuts off mTOR and creates conditions of anti-anabolism. There's a better way to do IF that doesn't have these downsides, basically using small bits of fat to keep the mTOR pathway open. Turns out it's not the lack of calories that brings you to a fasting state, but the lack of carbohydrates and excess protein. – Naomi Most Apr 9 2012 at 4:11
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Shutting down the mTOR pathway also inhibits tumour proliferation, and is insignificant in terms of overall lean mass. I have used coconut oil to get over energy lag and hunger, but lipolysis will provide energy requirements. Your cells continue to feed, whether you do or not, and autophagy is beneficial. – mindmt Apr 9 2012 at 7:24
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@naomi, is that you or Kiefer's research review speaking? His own experience with longer fasts isn't even a case study. Though i'm sure you'll find a few takers, people here aren't going to buy a diet plan that includes weekly or daily feedings of highly processed food with tons of grains--this is 'paleo'hacks after all. – Nandalal_Rasiah Apr 9 2012 at 13:49
Tx Nandalal - weighing in here a second time.. Kiefer and his DH site are at 1st sight interesting, and I'm impressed by the intellect/research. BUT, the theory simply doesn't seem to stack up against cited research on lean mass and fasting. Unless we are getting into nuances here - Kiefer: IF inhibits lean mass gains. Pilon: IF doesn't waste lean mass. Here, both could be right - ie no effect. Pilon does qualify by saying the critical factor is to continue resistance training through an IF regimen. – mindmt Apr 9 2012 at 14:00
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At merely 10 lbs overweight, it's unlikely you are metabolically deranged enough to need a "leptin reset", and The Big Breakfast has a lot to disrecommend it.

Intermittent fasting would be good for your goals, but with a few modifications. Check out this article (the first of a series) on how intermittent fasting with zero calories is a mistake (if you want to build muscle), and how to fix it.

Generally, wanting to binge later in the day after skipping breakfast means you haven't been eating enough fat.

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I'm not really overweight by "standard" guidelines, but you can be leptin resistant at any weight. As for the link, thank you! I'll definitely read it before weighing out my options. – Sunny Beaches Apr 8 2012 at 8:24
Do you have a subscription to the first site? Because when I click on it, I'm not getting the article:( – Sunny Beaches Apr 8 2012 at 8:26
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I totally agree with you, Sunny Beaches: one can be LR at ANY weight! – Maria Anna Apr 8 2012 at 13:33
You're not getting the article? Bummer... I changed link #1 to an article that has basically the same arguments (sourcing the same scientific studies). – Naomi Most Apr 9 2012 at 4:09
Ummm. No. By definition if you are truly Leptin resistant your appetite's self-regulation mechanism is broken. It means you get hungry and stay hungry and only stop wanting to eat when you are so full the stomach pressure signals that you are literally full. Eating like this doesn't cause you to be 5-10lbs overweight. – Satchmo Apr 9 2012 at 5:31
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I like IF.

That being said, personally I feel a big breakfast sets the mood for Paleo compliance, especially in someone who is starting out.

Wake up, eat a massive paleo-friendly breakfast, and that can set the stage for your choices all day.

Anything you can do to get in control of what you put in your face, will give you success. If that means cooking extra for dinner to have a bag lunch the next day, and getting up a little earlier (and going to bed earlier) to make a proper breakfast, so be it.

I found great success in eating a big breakfast, followed by leftovers for lunch, and a very large dinner during my "starting out" phase of eating this way.

I'm pretty unreliable in what times and quantities I eat now, but if I ever start falling off the wagon, I'll happily go "back to basics" and eat the way I outlined above.

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I love that you said that a big breakfast "sets the mood" for the day. I'm very encouraged! Thanks. – Sunny Beaches Apr 8 2012 at 19:30
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I'm a binge eater as well. I noticed that a Big Ass Breakfast with more than 50g of protein and also a lot of fat added, prevented me from bingeing later on in the day. I also lost weight on it. I'm not very active either. I only stopped doing it because my cholesterol was dangerously high. If it wasn't for this I'd still be eating according to the Leptin Rx. Go for it, girl!

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Thank you so much for commenting. It's always good to hear someone's success. I'm glad it helped you with bingeing later in the day. I'm not sure about the 50 g of protein though...that's about my total for the entire day. – Sunny Beaches Apr 8 2012 at 7:55
What's your plan these days? – Sunny Beaches Apr 8 2012 at 7:58
I binge..... :( – Maria Anna Apr 8 2012 at 8:09
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No seriously, I try to eat only fatty fish for a couple of days. To lose some weight again. But I already fell of the wagon, for today. Gonna grab some sugary wheat loaded foods later today... – Maria Anna Apr 8 2012 at 8:12
I loveeee fish. I'm sorry about falling off the wagon. I'm having a really hard time myself. I'm sending hugs your way across the sea...I hope things get better for you. – Sunny Beaches Apr 8 2012 at 8:27
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I did the leptin reset for about 3 weeks, after which time I felt that my leptin had reset itself. Eating all that protein at breakfast was a bit hard to do the first week, but then I became used to it. I would eat a big ass breakfast, very light lunch and normal dinner, no snacking, and it worked fine for me.

After the leptin reset, I started doing IF (ESE style - a couple of 24 hour fasts per week), either lunch-to-lunch, or dinner-to-dinner, and have no problems fasting. On my non-fasting days, I tend to go back to eating a high protein breakfast, light lunch, regular dinner.

Also, I track calories so I know what I'm eating and I have a fitbit which tells me how many calories I burn a day so I can balance my calories out with calories in to meet my weight loss goals. This combination has worked well for me.

I experimented with the 18/6 IF but found I actually was hungrier fasting that way and wanted to snack. The 24 hour IF works better for me. So, you may want to try a leptin reset for a few weeks and then go back to IF.

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I can't believe all the great answers. Thank you. After a few weeks of trying out the leptin reset, I might try to throw in a few IF days. – Sunny Beaches Apr 8 2012 at 19:32
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I think if you are not 100% paleo yet, and because you've posted before about some issues surrounding binge eating, I would caution about going straight into IF. Just because you are "not that overweight" doesn't mean you leptin must be fine and dandy. I think that if you have a tendency to binge, IF could make that worse if it drives you to feel hungry and snack. I would start off trying to get three meals a day paleo, and I agree that much protein is pretty hard to get down in the middle, so just kind of slowly step it up and see what you feel comfortable eating. Eating those three paleo meals and making sure you are totally satiated will go a long way to supporting both weight loss and any activity you want to do.

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I've been strict Paleo, IF and crossfitter for 2+ years and could not lose weight. 4th week on Leptin Reset w/CT and I have lost 16lbs. I am eating the exact same foods I have eaten for 2 years. The quantity and timing has chaned - I weigh all my food and have increased my calorie intake about 300 per day. Like Robb Wolf says. Try it for 30 days and see or yourself

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Wow, thanks for the comment. I've been IF with fasted workouts (nothing too intense though). You're right..the best way to know is to try it out and see what works best for me. – Sunny Beaches Apr 8 2012 at 19:27
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Crazy, every time i go paleo or atkins or ketogenic paleo as everyone calls atkins now, i cant eat enough calories.

i pound a 12 oz pack of bacon in the morning, and because i like the taste of the thick center cut more thats only 7 servings @ 50 cals. 5 g protein each. and i have a chocolate protein shake with that w cream in it @ 160 cals.

so far thats only 510

lunch is usually pretty small, a carbmaster yogurt and some broccoli maybe a 4 oz piece of halibut and then dinner is massive again big thing of steak or chicken and a broccoli bowl or some artichoke. maybe a huge salad. either way each of those meals is not that many calories.

i lose str cause i think im under calorie for my size.

but fat burning works best ketogenic, i honestly think i lose fat faster on atkins w 5 meals a day but im interested in the idea of bringing my leptin down to a lower level so i dont gain the weight back again.

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0

IF works for me. Eating first thing in the morning is just calorie packing to me. But my metabolism burns best in the early evening so I eat then. You will need to do BOTH over a few weeks and decide.

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Some women have a harder time at IF than men. Has something to do with the hormones. Someone on this site explained it very well a while back but I can't find the post.

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IF made me me gain weight even though my daily calorie count was lower than it had been. I've been trying for a high-protein, low-carb breakfast (not quite as much as the Church of Kruse would recommend, but as a 5'3" knowledge worker I think 50g is excessive). I find I'm still hungry for lunch even with the morning feast, but I'm definitely not gaining weight, and possibly losing, even though I'm taking in more calories than on standard protocol or IF. Good luck!

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Thanks for replying! I'm glad you understand how 50g sounds excessive. I'm an inch taller and like you, jog leisurely. I'm glad you're not gaining anymore...it's pretty frustrating. How much protein do you aim for at breakfast? – Sunny Beaches Apr 9 2012 at 19:06
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I'm not sure that losing a little weight and tightening up a bit has to be so complicated. It is all about calories in vs calories out, and adding in exercise will help retain muscle mass. I am all about eating a balanced, paleo diet and fearing any one macronutrient group. Track your calories on fitday.com and try to create a deficit but nothing too drastic from BMR. If you add in intense weight training and cardio, you'll be there faster than you imagined.

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calories in vs calories out does not work. – raydawg Apr 8 2012 at 12:49
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It's NOT about calories in, calories out. Very old fashioned stance in my opinion.... – Maria Anna Apr 8 2012 at 13:35
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Of course it is. Low-carb just reduces food reward. Anyone who thinks you can pound 10k calories a day and not gain weight because the foods are Paleo is deluded. – Satchmo Apr 9 2012 at 5:33
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The reason "calories in, calories out" doesn't seem to work is because it's not that simple: calories go in and out, but the efficiency of both processes is highly variable from individual to individual and from the numbers in the fitday tracker. The general principle of "expend more energy than you store" is irrefutable, though. It's just that some bodies are very efficient in expending energy and very clever at storing it. – Kation Apr 9 2012 at 16:40
energy = calories = heat. You're just playnig with symantics- idiot. – foreveryoung Apr 9 2012 at 21:45
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