Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

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While I consider biochemical and evolutionary science to be the most compelling argument for eating Paleo, something that I also find super compelling is the abundance of success stories out there. But the devils advocate in me has always wondered about the other side. There's just got to be people out there who tried paleo but quit--and not necessarily because they failed (re: Melissa's "faileo"), but because they felt crappy or didn't like it.

For example, I have one friend who tried paleo but is attributing his continued blood pressure problems to the diet. I have some more suggestions for him, but he's adamant.

So my question is this: do you know people, either in real life or via the internet, who have sincerely tried paleo and swear that its ineffective/harmful/stupid/etc? And why do you think that is? Did they just not do it properly, or was it truly bad for them, or did they just not feel any benefits worth raving about and therefore quit?

flag	asked Sep 27 2010 at 22:40 Stefani 1,073●3●9

	I imagine there are people for whom low carb doesn't work, I bet a high carb paleo would do great, if love to have some long discussions with some long term high carb paleo people :) – Stephen-Aegis Sep 28 2010 at 1:13
	What counts as high carb? – Eva Sep 28 2010 at 3:40
	200+g of starches? Not interested in high sugarfruit personally tho, others may be – Stephen-Aegis Sep 28 2010 at 12:09
	what kind of blood pressure probs? low or high? – Bread-Eating Beelzebub Sep 28 2010 at 12:29
	Low blood pressure, I think. He also experiences numbness in his legs, ONE swollen foot, periodic numbness on the right half of his body, and panic attacks. – Stefani Sep 28 2010 at 15:22

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Bonnie · Answer 1 · 2010-09-28 12:22:18Z UTC

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I think everything works differently depending on the person. Before I went paleo, my body worked wonderfully on the 2:1 carb to protein ratio many bodybuilders (the old school folk, if you will) use. That, of course, included oats and dairy (and more fruit than I take in these days). Now that I've eaten paleo for a year I have noticed changes, and not all good. My body fat percentage rests much higher than it did before, despite also having more lean muscle mass. Also, I am almost always hungry. My body's tolerance for "bad" foods is zero. So, thefew days I choose to eat poorly are hell. Sugar makes me noticeably swell up - and it takes longer than most to get re-regulated. I'm not going to argue that I haven't seen benefits as far as physical performance, but I'd say there are some downfalls.

answered Sep 28 2010 at 12:22

Bonnie
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i love this reply. I have never been a bodybuilder but i understand the point. Also, although i follow paleo all the way and dont have any personal issues with it, i do believe that if you follow paleo for a good long time that when you do eat sugar, alcohol, bread, etc that it hits you hard. The effects are greater i believe. It doesnt make me want to stop but i think it beseaches longterm commitment. – ben61820 Sep 28 2010 at 13:43

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I suspect this problem may be greater in those who don't cheat sorta regularly. The body, digestion, and gut flora adapt to what you eat regularly. I you don't eat sugar/grain for a long time, by the time you finally do, the body will probably not be ready for it. WHereas if you eat, say 3% unhealthy during the week, you are still slightly adapted to digest the unhealthy. For those who may find themselves not in a position to have many food choices, this could be a concern. – Eva Sep 28 2010 at 14:06

I read that and don't think they're mostly downfalls at all. Your body fat being a little bit higher is possibly healthier. Percentages we desire of body fat for aesthetics and health are not always equal. As far as being hungry, that's an issue of the macronutrient breakdown and calories you consume and can be fixed with some adjusted meal planning most likely. This is where a coach on your specific foods can help. Tolerance to "bad" foods decreasing is a sign of improved health & defense mechanisms that are no longer battling a constant influx of "bad" foods so the reaction feels stronger – Diane at Balanced Bites Sep 28 2010 at 17:53

surely you could obtain a 2:1 carb/protein ratio eating paleo. Always feeling hungry isn't good. – oliverh Mar 5 2011 at 11:40

Jamie · Answer 2 · 2010-09-27 23:00:29Z UTC

I think there are elements of the paleo diet that can be applicable to all. Such as: grassfed meats, lots of veggies, little to no sugar, etc. However, each person is so unique that it's hard to say that 1 particular way of eating will work for all. Especially if you get too detailed (No dairy for everyone, no legumes, even if properly prepared, etc). I do think that there will always be people who won't do well on a seemingly healthy way of eating. It's hard to blame the paleo diet, though, since we don't have food logs, blood test results, etc.

Kamal · Answer 3 · 2010-09-27 23:26:14Z UTC

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Not exactly anti-paleo, but related: I have not grown to love meat and shrug off bread/sugar. It may come with more time, but many testimonials hinted that this happens.

If I wasn't eating for health, I would still go straight to McDonalds and get a Big Mac meal with a hot-fudge sundae. Sure, I get less hungry than before. But when I get hungry, I would totally choose Doritos over pemmican if health had nothing to do with it. Almost thirty years of lapping up sugar and salt will do that to you, I guess :(

Not to mention that the paleo foods that I liked most before eating paleo (bacon, barbecued pulled pork, rotisserie chicken with crispy skin, almonds) have the highest amounts of omega 6! Damn you, level 2 paleo!

edited Sep 27 2010 at 23:26

answered Sep 27 2010 at 23:03

Kamal♦
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I never regard my whole roasted chicken to be unhealthy, or unpaleo or whatever, due to its omega 6 load. I know chicken fat does indeed have a good amount of 6 but if i eat no nuts, nut oils, or veg oils and grass fed meat almost all the time, should i rethink my weekly roasted chicken? – ben61820 Sep 28 2010 at 0:06

No, don't rethink it! It's just that almost everything I truly enjoy is high omega 6, so I had to make an effort to cut some of it out. Otherwise it would be roasted chicken for dinner, burrito bowl with avocado for lunch, almonds for a snack, etc. If you, too, were an omega 6 addict, it might be worth it to cut some out. – Kamal♦ Sep 28 2010 at 0:37

@Ben, no need to avoid it, it's just a matter of balance. e.g. assuming your o3:o6 is balanced beforehand from grassfed meat all week, then half a roast chicken a week would add around 10g omega6 to balance out, so you'd need to have one day eating salmon to balance it out to a 1:1 ratio. – David Moss Sep 28 2010 at 7:29

How long have you gone without, took about 6 months of no sugar or cheats to break my cravings, then took 2 "tests" to find out I really don't care for it anymore – Stephen-Aegis Sep 28 2010 at 12:11

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Kamal, my new favorite food is an extra rare prime rib thats been refrigerated overnight, then seared in coconut fat or tallow until crispy on the outside the next day. It got rid of my "crispy chicken skin" blues... and it ends up being the perfect "black and blue" steak. There's always an option for decadent foods even on so called "level two paleo"... POWERUP! – Joshua May 3 2011 at 1:22

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lxc · Answer 4 · 2012-04-20 20:54:07Z UTC

I tried a strict low carb paleo diet for about 2 months - no potatoes, no rice, very little fruit. Everything I read said I would go through an "adjustment" phase where I felt like crap, but then I'd come out the other side after a few weeks - but it never happened. I started to get weird mood swings very similar to blood sugar highs/lows, was really low energy, couldn't get through my workouts, and felt seriously hungry all the time. I figure if something makes you feel like shit for 2 months, it's probably because it makes you feel like shit - not because you're detoxing or need to be more regimented or whatever.

I still eat paleo, except that I eat as much rice, starchy tubers and fruit as I want, when I want, and I probably don't eat as much meat as some paleo eaters. I don't track calories or macronutrients, I don't take supplements, and I don't have "cheat days." I pretty much just eat the real food I feel like eating until I'm full. This is what works for me - I feel good, my health is good, my energy is good - I think that's the important thing. Not being "super paleo."

Everyone's body is different - eating real food is the main point. The rest is just tinkering to see what's going to work for you.

Jason · Answer 5 · 2010-09-28 00:20:25Z UTC

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I have one (of sorts)....my mom had some heart issues about a year ago, they found a partial blockage, and the doctor put her on a strict diet that allowed only fish and/or a few fish oil pills for fat, nothing else, no avacado, no coconut, no other meat options. Now, her blockage seems to be reversed, she can exercise at a higher intensity, her blood work numbers are great and she's lost weight. The doctor claimed that the diet was necessary because, genetically, her body converts all fats to cholesterol.

Faced with her mortality, she doesn't want to hear anything else because her current diet has worked. Certainly makes it difficult to argue with her....thoughts?

answered Sep 28 2010 at 0:20

Jason
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	Heh, just a high fish paleo diet then? Did the strict diet cut out fake fats/veggie oils, grains and sugars as well? A high seafood/fish diet could certainly be paleo! – Tim Rangitsch Sep 28 2010 at 1:37
	I guess she could do nothing but fish, fruit, and veggies. She better like fruit and veggies though, or it would get really old really fast! – Eva Sep 28 2010 at 3:43
	Genetically converting all fat to cholesterol doesn't sound likely, but having a genetic predisposition to now allowing circulating blood cholesterol to properly enter into cells IS a legitimate issue. The diet he put her on is a paleo diet, just not with added luxuries many of us enjoy like avocado or coconut. A paleo diet doesn't dictate what you must eat 100% of the time, but rather is a guide for what not to eat. If what she does works for her and she enjoys the diet/lifestyle, then don't change it. As long as she gets the nutrients she needs, she should be aok. – Diane at Balanced Bites Sep 28 2010 at 17:48
	Here's the thing I was talking about with the genetic predisposition: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/… – Diane at Balanced Bites Sep 28 2010 at 17:49
	@Diane - No, it's not a paleo diet at all. Grains, beans, etc. are not eliminated. Sorry, should have been clearer on that. @Tim - I don't think it's really a high fish diet either. It's really more of the classic low-fat MacDougal diet really, just add in a serving of fish here and there. – Jason Sep 29 2010 at 0:03

Bread-Eating Beelzebub · Answer 6 · 2010-09-28 12:34:12Z UTC

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Related: Have any paleos gone veg?

Michelle, a type 1 diabetic who was featured in Cordain's newsletter once:

I'm back on insulin and I quit the paleo diet.My sugars started increasing to the 140s-150s in March and I went back on insulin. The diet really wasn't helping. However, I stayed on the paleo diet for a few days but I couldn't take it anymore and started having dairy, grains, and legumes again.

I totally understand. I don't think I could do paleo if I could NEVER EVER cheat or I might die.

answered Sep 28 2010 at 12:34

Bread-Eating Beelzebub
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Wow, but conversely, I don't think I would cheat if it meant I would die! – Tim Rangitsch Sep 28 2010 at 13:02

Seems like once the autoimmune attack on the beta cells gets going, it's hard to stop. Paleo might help slow it down and paleo very likely will make it easier to balance the injected insulin that you will have to take as a type 1, but it doesn't cure all maladies. – Eva Sep 28 2010 at 14:09

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I hate the term "cheat meal". It's not cheating! You're making a conscious decision to eat some foods you don't eat on a regular basis. Calling it cheating makes it like a moral judgement or something. – Nicole Sep 29 2010 at 22:06

Thanks Nicole, I think "guilt, shame, and blame" are totally vile concepts. I eat 2 squares of Lindt 85% dark chocolate every day and feel like I'm having a party. I don't feel like I'm cheating. It is just what I do and have never had greater success with a lifestyle than I am having with paleo. – Doris Dec 15 2010 at 14:47

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Type 1 diabetics must take insulin. They just cannot produce insulin, which is needed for protein and carb, and it will lead to excessive blood sugar if insulin is not added. So controlling with diet was never an option there. – Turnkey Apr 5 2011 at 4:22

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Aaron Curl · Answer 7 · 2010-09-28 14:12:34Z UTC

I have a friend who ate lowfat (he avoided it) paleo for 2 months lost a lot of weight and then couldn't sustain it. He wouldn't eat any fat and gained a lot of weight back. Now he doesn't believe in paleo. I tried to help him find what kind of paleo diet to eat but he wouldn't listen. It was probably more vegetarian than paleo, regardless, he wasn't willing to find what worked for him and now he will spread a bad word on paleo eating.

xjhues · Answer 8 · 2010-09-28 15:08:20Z UTC

The Blue Zoners don't eat strict paleo - veggie based diet, lots of nuts and legumes, soy products in Okinawa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Zone

http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_buettner_how_to_live_to_be_100.html

I'd say their lifestyle is paleo though - constant physical activity, lowish caloric intake, tight almost tribal community, have a purpose.

james · Answer 9 · 2011-04-05 02:38:31Z UTC

I've noticed that when I try to adapt to a strict paleo diet ( I've done this twice) without cheating I get wicked stomach aches, migraines, and food just moves through me. I've done a paleo challenge before where I cheated about 2 meals a week and loved it. My performance went through the roof but I got super skinny. I tried this again a few months back, this time without cheating and it sucked ass. I noticed that if I threw in some beans the stomach ache and migraine went away and I was all around happier.

Andy · Answer 10 · 2010-09-27 23:20:44Z UTC

Hey, I love my McDonalds. Not paleo at all but that is where I go once every two months for my "cheat meal". My GI system gladly cleanses it's self of this refined white flour and deep fried potato garbage the next day. I alternate McDonalds one month with a banana split the next. Both are worth a good cleansing. And yes, any self respecting caveman would have eaten the same thing if it was available. :)

However, in a hurry or on the go... fast food will serve just fine. Get whatever burger or chicken sandwich you want, get a side salad, toss the bun and skip the fries.

Anti-paleo testimonials?

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