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As i understand not all calories are equal. There is a difference in eating 2000 calories of healthy meats and vegetables, vs eating 2000 calories of chocolate. With that being said, is it possible to consume 3000 plus calories a day in poultry, and various other meats and still have weight loss?

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It's all experiential. Try it for a month and find out. – thhq Apr 28 2012 at 13:23
I easily eat 2500 to 3000 Kcal a day. If I've really trained hard, like 3- 2hour sessions of training, I'll down like 4000kcal.. I really don't keep track though. Do what works for you and leaves you feeling the best. I'm not sure how people on here calculate their calories, or why. We are not bomb calorimeters we are complex biological machines. – josh Apr 28 2012 at 14:59

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Eating anything in excess will likely cause weight gain.

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I've been told I'm negative, so sorry, but how does this explain my weight gain last year on 1500 calories from bread, and me remaining lean on 3500 kcal right now? – Korion Apr 28 2012 at 13:02
I'm as sedentary now as I was then, btw, though I see more sun, eat WAY more nutrient-dense and go to sleep at a reasonable hour. – Korion Apr 28 2012 at 13:03
Yes true but exactly how much broccoli can you eat? – thhq Apr 28 2012 at 13:25
Not sure of your situation but eating more can possibly increase your metabolism – Acumen Athletics Apr 28 2012 at 15:27
@Korion, maybe it was the level of consumed nutrients allowing for more metabolic activities? sort of like going to the beach with a frisbee, beachball and pail as opposed to empty handed- you can do more? – sage_ Apr 28 2012 at 16:13
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I've yet to see a study that says you can eat more calories than your metabolism burns and you can lose weight, no matter what the food. Now there are numerous examples saying one macronutrient ratio produces greater amounts of weight loss than another when isocaloric (a constant level of calories). Albeit, it usually is quite small and often statistically insignificant in the time span of the study itself.

The advantage of a high-protein-low-carb diet is rather small, we're talking maybe 50-100 calories per day. It's certainly not 100s to 1000s of calories of advantage.

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I think the key to that is that low-carb decreases appetite so people following a low-carb diet typically consume less food. Coupled with any metabolic advantage that may come with changing macronutrient ratios is where people lose weight on low-carb... but the "eat all you want" mentality comes from, I think, the fact that most low-carbers don't WANT to eat all that much. – Eric Apr 28 2012 at 13:19
Very true, but just trying to compare apples to apples, not to oranges. :) – Matt Apr 28 2012 at 14:56
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Our body, like everything in the universe, follows the laws of thermodynamics. In order to lose weight you do have to consume less energy than you spend.

You can consume 3000 calories of the most healthy foods available, if you daily caloric expenditure is 2800 calories you will gain weight.

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Thank you! Too much energy taken in is simply stored. Doesn't matter if it's the happiest most grass fed cow around. – ben61820 Apr 28 2012 at 23:24
Yet there is a new 'health' movement that wants to deny this fundamental law of the universe. You have just reaffirmed my faith in humanity. – Mark Apr 29 2012 at 21:48
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I think it's the average of all the above.

  1. Calories in/calories out is true but irrelevant. Some people dispense with the extra calories they overheat by fidgiting and so don't gain. Some people can cut calories and be energetic, and therefore lose weight, whereas others will just become exhausted, sedentary, and therefore burn less and not lose weight. Gary Taubes sites examples of populations that eat under 2000 cal/day, work hard, and are obese (they live of bread and coffee). They're also completely exhausted the rest of the time. Food composition matters. Individual genetics matter.

  2. Food consumption matters. We all know that when somebody crash diets, they lose weight. True, it might be more muscle than fat in some cases, but often people look thin after a long crash diet. It's not sustainable, sure, but it demonstrates that calories matter.

I think the right way to think of it is that, for most people, cutting carbs and eating paleo triggers satiety with fewer calories than one would consume otherwise, and also that eating the same number of calories may still result in better weight control for a paleo, who will feel more energetic and so expend more calories than they otherwise would have. It's a combination.

Anicdotally, I occasionally do go on a month-long paleo "binge" where I overeat paleo foods. Sure I gain weight during those times. I don't gain as much as I used to, and merely getting my portion sizes back in line gets me back where I want to be, a gigantic change from my previous life. My health and weight are vastly improved, but at least for me I still have to keep an eye on whether I'm eating for hunger or for entertainment, because eating for entertainment, even with paleo, is not healthful for me.

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Of course it's possible if you're eating 3000 and burning say, 4500. The "all calories are not created equal" has more to do with how various foods affect you metabolically, and how they will thereby influence body composition.

FOr instance, 2 cups of broccoli (food A) has x number of calories but has virtually no insulin response to eating it and takes 2y calories to digest. A slice of light wheat toast (food B) has x calories too, but takes y calories to digest an ilicits a large insulin response. Therefore x calories from broccoli is the better option if you are trying to lose body fat when choosing between x number of calories from food A and x number of calories from food B.

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nutrient density is also a factor. – foreveryoung Apr 28 2012 at 12:36
I think it would be better if you used real example numbers... – YoungPaleoLover Apr 28 2012 at 12:52
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lol. probably but I was thinking if I said 2 cups of broccoli has 40 calories and a piece of light wheat toast has 40, someone would come on and tell me I'm wrong two cups of broccoli has 35 calories and a piece of light wheat toast has 45, etc. – foreveryoung Apr 28 2012 at 13:25
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Isocalorically, does insulin release really matter? I haven't seen any data saying it does, but I haven't searched for it either. – Matt Apr 28 2012 at 15:00
Forever, I pretty much say the same thing as you're saying to people all the time. However, I have less and less been mentioning the insulin thing. I suppose along Matt's line, I don't think the insulin release is even important if the calories are dialed in at maintenance or a calculated deficit. At least I mean that for otherwise healthy people, but maybe for everyone? – ben61820 Apr 28 2012 at 15:39
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I think comparing 2000 cals meat and veggies to 2000 cals chocolate is meaningless. I was going to say you couldn't survive on 2000 cals/day chocolate as it contains only trace protein, but milk chocolate is 17% protein according to FitDay! Still, to compare apples to apples, since a certain amount of protein is required for "maintenance" of cells as is a small amount of fats that are also components of lipoprotein particles and rarely incorporated into fat stores. These requirements are fairly constant if you've not changed activity/environment.

So, lets compare 2000 calories of intake in excess of those needs. Now I suppose we could compare whether those 2000 calories are from meat & veggies or chocolate (and for the sake of argument let's use conventional milk chocolate). Well, if one presumes the meat and veggie diet is 60% fat, 30% protein, 10% carb = 1791 using average Jequier thermogenic factors, while milk chocolate is 24% fat, 17% protein, 59% carb = 1812 effective calories. Pretty much a calorie is a calorie for this comparison, though the thermogenic factors may already be accounted for in the average calorie estimates.

Studies have shown that you absorb fewer calories from less processed foods, and that includes a whole steak vs. ground beef. Thus the types of foods are more important than the macro composition.

A milk chocolate diet! LOL Sounds good :D

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You know a heck of a lot more about this than I, Evelyn, but it's clear that my own experience backs up what you said. The more "whole" my foods are, it seems the longer I stay satisfied and (I assume) the harder my gut has to work to get the net calories. – Nance Apr 28 2012 at 15:31
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There is a great explanation of this in the Book the Smarter Science of Slim. It is not a Paleo book. However the Paleo aware will find it very Paleo friendly. Just remember that Soy is bad for you while reading the book. I also would not eat the amount of flax seed he is eating. Other than that it is very Paleo Friendly.

The perfect Health diet has some information on this as well.

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