Speaking as another shrinking fatty, I think it's perfectly valid to heap scorn on the Surgeon General. We don't hate fat people, we hate the system that made them/us that way. Most of us have been badly harmed by the SAD, and the Surgeon General is part of the system that promotes it.

The fact that the SG is "chubby"/fat/obese and still giving the same old advice just adds some irony, and a little more evidence of how wrong she is, making it more fun to disparage her. And yes, Nikoley is a loudmouthed asshole (not that there's anything wrong with that). I think you'll find a lot of that amongst those of us willing to defy the conventional wisdom.

You know I wrote a whole new long answer detailing my entire life experience with weight but erased it. It really is a very crazy story. Seriously, you're going to think I'm making this sh*t up. I'm always hesitant to talk about it because it gets me very emotional but I've decided to write it again. This only deals with weight aspect of my life.

I'm 21, male, 5'9'', 180 lbs. When I was 5, I transitioned from a normal weight for my age and slowly became more overweight and obese. In elementary school, I was lying about my weight but it was obvious to the other kids I was a behemoth. Imagine being 180 lbs (my weight now!) in elementary school. It was not fast food or school lunches that did this to me, but binge eating at home. Eventually, I got over 200 lbs. I must have been 220 lbs at this first peak of my weight. I was 13 when I put myself on a strict low-fat diet, and 14 when I became a vegetarian and a vegan. I was losing weight and feeling happier with myself than ever. I later left my strict low-fat veganism behind and ate more nuts in my diet, peanut butter became part of my daily diet.

This happiness soon ended. Suddenly I was "too skinny". I started to hear people ask me in my face if I was anorexic or bulimic. The answer was always the truth, No. You know you really see how supportive people really are when you become "too skinny". All they want to do at that point is fatten you up. And that's exactly what they did to me.

Not only did my mom secretly lie to me about the anti-depressants I was taking actually being appetite stimulants (I wonder if any medical professionals were complicit in this, or encouraged it...hmm, I need to get some legal revenge) she began to shove junk food in my face yelling at me to eat it. I was forced to go to therapists where I was weighed and made to feel guilty for being myself!

After all this pressure, or maybe it was the appetite stimulant, or both, I jettisoned my health views, and fattened up like a prize pig. I was still very much an ethical vegan, so as long as the calories weren't from an animal, I didn't care. I soon became addicted to hummus , which I ate with copious amounts of pita bread. Then margarine became another addiction, which I added to everything. I could eat a whole tub of cashews in a sitting. This binge eating was all in addition to the copious amounts of food I was eating. I was also not exercising as I learned to concede to their demands that I not exercise, being so skinny and all. Really, I think of it as the old me being brutally murdered (in a mental sense) and then resurrected into a zombie state. I'm still in recovery from the physical and emotional damage that I did to my body, mind and my health. Sure, they started to say I was eating too much, but I had already been brainwashed. I wanted to eat like that, but I don't consider it's my fault. If someone pushes you off a cliff, and you keep falling, it's not your fault if you keep falling.

In the beginning, I did look healthy, less emaciated, less like Skeletor. That was only temporary as the weight climbed up. Within a couple years I had gone from 117 lbs (with a BMI of 17) to 285 lbs (with a BMI of 42). I had lost 100 lbs, and gained back 165. So much for the anti-anorexic witch-hunt crowd wanting me to become "healthy". Anorexia is a behavior not a number, and my experience as a falsely accused anorexic proves that.

It gets worse. I suffered simultaneously from malnutrition and overeating. My digestion was horrible. I vomited after eating more than once. I skipped school, because I was severely depressed, but also because I had developed incontinence and had difficulty keeping myself from having to go to the bathroom. I went from a A & B student to mostly F's and D's. I was skipping school so much, that I eventually just dropped out of high school. Seriously, becoming fat again ruined my life.

That went on for a few years until I was 20, January 2009, I put myself on a diet again, and I've lost 100 lbs, most of that lost on a vegan diet.

I stopped being a vegan in March of this year. I'm still dealing with weight, body image issues to this day. During my weight loss last year I experienced many episodes of anorexia, bulimia, and binge eating. Even now when I am at a more modest weight, I've hit a plateau and I often think about starving myself. But the reason I haven't gone full blown anorexic is because I hate the pain of hunger too much, and I don't like the idea of being malnourished of essential vitamins and minerals.

If anyone here should learn anything from my story, it's that as someone who was both very fat and very thin, I know how stupid people can act to you. Granted, I felt much better even when people were giving me sh*t for being skinny. What didn't feel good was the pressure to eat junk food and over-eat, what didn't feel good was becoming fat. I would like it if I could do it all over again, and gain muscle instead of fat. I definitely felt worse being fat. I have my own idea of what being attractive is and I measure myself up to it. Fat people like I was hate themselves way more than anyone else hates them. Being thin isn't as bad, but I do think it is oppressive how people who are thin or become thin are treated. I don't think people should be treated like that for being any size.

Most of the pain in my life has come from me being fat. I did not accept myself. I do not consider the physical health issues of being overweight to be nearly as concerning as the mental and emotional damages one feels having to deal with the stigma of being one of the fat ones. Seeing attractive people wherever you go. Overeating becomes your routine, or your comfort in emotional hell. Can you imagine if on top of that, someone decides that they are being "good" by shaming fat people to thinness? The number one reason fat people do not want to exercise is because they are worried what people will think of them. It's not because they are lazy!

Seriously, instead of being all angry at fat people you need to have a heart. I support Health At Every Size movement. I personally do not agree that being fat should be encouraged, but I feel that it shouldn't be subject to massive scorn and bigotry either. I support people who have decided to value their own self-worth as a human being despite of being "too fat".

That's it, I bared my soul. I'm being 100% honest and truthful. I just feel so embarrassed getting it off my chest.

The following will win me no friends but "Health at Any/Every Size" is complete and utter BS.

In fact, it implicitly contradicts why one would bother to eat Paleo. Sorry.

That noted, I do NOT condone ad hominem attacks on people for being overweight.

When I see very fat people, I feel sorry for them. They have been fooled but the so called experts into living and eating in ways that destroys their metabolisms. Then when they get fat, the same 'experts' blame them for having lack of willpower. Then when they try to do anything about it, most of the experts tell them to do more of the same. Is it any wonder that so many people are fat!?!

Of course, once people are addicted to sugar and garbage, and their brains are half fried, it's even harder for them to see past the so called experts and realize the real problem. And everywhere, society constantly tempts them to go back to the societally accepted way. I recently met this one guy who said he did great eating a low carb diet and lost lots of weight easily, but then everyone told him it was 'the heart attack diet' and he was scared he would get sick if he continued eating that way. Most people in society are just not going to spend 500 hours reading research articles and then have the chutzpah to tell all the 'experts' to go suck an egg. Instead, they will listen to those who are supposed to know something intelligent. So when I see a fat woman up there spouting bull about health, I can't help but see her as another borg drone that got sucked into the system. She is doing what she was brainwashed to believe is correct.

I think those who feel hate and animosity towards fat people are just people who themselves carry a lot of hate and animosity inside them and are looking for an excuse to let it out and have fun at someone else's expense. There are people everywhere that are full of hate and animosity and that includes some in the paleo community. It doesn't mean that paleo people are like that. It only means that all kinds of people are involved with paleo, including some that are like that.

Thin does not equal healthy, first of all. Even if you were thin and eating the SAD before discovering paleo, you were just as ignorant (literally speaking, not as insult) as a fat person, and simply genetically lucky that your un-health didn't manifest as adiposity.

In a way, maybe SAD fat people are the lucky ones, since they at least have smack-you-in-the-face obvious evidence of un-health, with very motivating lifestyle benefits to be had by going paleo. The perpetually thin SAD'er can continue under the delusion that he is healthy since he doesn't gain weight, albeit chronically deluded about the source of his psoriasis, acne, cancer, parkinson's, etc.

Additionally, while everyone is ultimately responsible for his own choices, SAD fatties are legitimately victims (as are thin people) of a governmental-agricultural-scientific hegemony that is constantly giving them terrible and contradictory advice and then blaming them when it doesn't work. Fatties deserve sympathy, kindness, help, education, and encouragement.

Disclosure: I am a fatty (but shrinking).

I know of exactly 0 healthy and maintaining obese status(read:visceral fat)humans. It's not natural. Skinny doesn't = healthy, but overweight and holding is definitely not. Doesn't mean we should deride them, merely help educate.

Crappy attitudes And opinions are human flaws. Don't lump all of us in a basket because of the negative statements made by a minority. That's severe prejudice and Just as bad.

Maybe I missed something but I don't think anything she said in that video Richard posted has anything to do with diet and nutrition. She was talking about healthcare reform.

In the video you posted on your blog she said "eat nutritious foods, exercise regularly, and have fun doing it". I think that is a good message.

She may be overweight but everyone in America is not thin. If fat people can't talk about nutrition because they are fat then that's a terrible attitude. Some fat people are trying to lose weight and be healthy and lost weight, but they're still overweight but they still have wisdom to share.

What about the super skinny gamer nerd that plays World of Warcraft, never gets any sunlight, and subsists on a diet of Mountain Dew and Cheetos. Being skinny only means you are skinny. Plenty of skinny people keel over and die and get sick.

"Do as I say, not as I do" does NOT fly for a government anointed health authority. She needs to walk the walk AND talk the talk.

I think that allowing people who are very overweight to believe that "everyone in my family is 'big'" (so it's genetic) is really harmful.

I'm concerned that fat "acceptance" is just going to result in people never finding out what really is a healthy lifestyle. Because the conventional wisdom doesn't work for weight loss, they might never look beyond that and instead just figure that's the way they are.

Carrying 10-15% over your ideal weight is no big deal. Some studies show those people have very favorable health outcomes, and I think that a lot of unhealthy obsession can go into getting off that last bit of weight anyway. Saying that people who are more than 25% over their ideal weight are just as healthy as those folks? I really don't think so.

Wow. I read the post and all the comments, and Richard Nikoley is a f***g idiot. Didn't he used to be quite chubby himself?

And as far as I can tell, he is just good at aggregating other people's paleo ideas and being a decent writer. Now it appears that he feels his transformation has given him the liberty to be a mean-spirited jerk. Well, most paleo bloggers seem like nice guys/girls: Mark Sisson, Stephan Guyenet, etc...

Also...her job is not Obesity Doctor General. To tag her as a hypocritical role model is not quite logical. I used to work at an obesity clinic, and some very knowledgeable people with great positive influence, who happened to have trouble controlling their appetites, attended sessions there. Your looks do not dictate everything.

Few things:

1. Free The Animal is known for being pretty rugged in his commentary. I love reading his site, but I take it for what its worth. He doesn't hide it. If you listen to interviews with him, or just read him regularly you'll see that he admits that he is cursey, loud, opinionated, etc. I got no prob with it, in fact I think its just about the only paleo-related blog that carries that vibe. I am constantly happy to find that most paleo blogs are very happy, supportive types.
2. Skinny does not ipso facto equal healthy. Def not. Look at most chocolate-devouring, sugar-addicted vegans.
3. Overweight, while not necessarily preventing one from being healthy, is not ideal. As long as we have a government that is going to try and tell us how to lead a healthy life, overweight should not be sold as merely another bodyshape. The ideal, if there is going to be one, should probably be a slim one. Slim is the way, all other things being equal, we all start out as humans and is most likely the body shape that will allow the healthiest life to be lived.
4. The following may come off a bit arrogant but sometimes I would like to scream to the bulk of the US population, “cmon people, have some pride!” I mean, look at old photos from pretty much anytime: civil war pics, WWI pics, WWII pics, even pics of your parents in the 60s perhaps – we looked good! Now look around you. What a shame. Nonstop comparison is prolly not the healthiest thing to do psychologically but it can fuel you in the right direction. I have traveled the globe and just feel that it is plainly obvious the difference between most of us here in the US and most of the people around the world: SIZE. Using that comparison just a little bit as fuel for the fire, and holding ourselves to a higher standard can have benefits, too. Walk tall, walk proud. This doesnt mean be a dick, just means be happy and confident in who you are and what you are showing to the world.

I think that it really depends on the Paleo person. Basically, I see obesity as being caused by our horrendously unnatural diets and lifestyles, and see the obese, of which I used to be one, as victims of a dysfunctional food culture rather than as weakwilled or [insert epithet here].

We're really only beginning to get a grasp on how unhealthy modern life is, and with so few people being aware of this fact, and most of the rest tuned into the conventional wisdom or Oprah and Dr. Oz, I really can't see the point in abusing fat people; you might as well blame pre-Copernicus Europeans for thinking that the Earth was flat, or people in the 1950's for not realizing that tobacco was bad for you.

I have definitely been disheartened by the derisive, pretty much mean name-calling I've encountered at times in the context of the online paleo community - of those who are not perfectly lean - i.e. "fatties", etc. Even if someone looks overweight, they could be eating paleo, and slowly losing weight - that is, on their own paleo path toward health, fitness, and leanness.

Those in that state of flux - or those who are overweight but curious to learn more about the paleo way of eating - could easily be discouraged from continuing with paleo and feel alienated because of these words.

No, I don't think the paleo community is running on fatism. Nikoley might be, however. His post and his responses to comments were openly, nakedly hostile. In my experience, most paleos really resent the CW (and the harm it has caused) and really want to educate people in order to help them help themselves. And that attitude is inherently compassionate.

That kind of compassion is a virtue. But sometimes people elevate a virtue to a vice. Too often compassion becomes dogmatic, and denigration replaces persuasion. You see this in politics all the time, i.e. "if you disagree with me you just don't get it, you're a [insert pejorative here]." This is polarizing, and virtually eliminates any chance of having a real meeting-of-the-minds conversation.

But at the same time we have to recognize that excessive body fat is simply not a marker of good health. Obesity, diabetes, cancer are running rampant in our society. These "Diseases of Civilization" have reached epidemic proportions and our health authorities and all of their fellow travelers seem powerless to help us. They have recommended diet after diet, and bad food after bad food, all to no avail. In fact, they've made everything worse. And after utterly failing to get to the bottom of all this, now they simply give up and tell us that excess body fat is ok? There are many people struggling to lose weight out there, in fact it's quite common. I was one of them. Let's not give up on them by enabling the very people who have (probably unwittingly and in good faith) made it all worse. And let's not confuse common with normal.

I think Richard Nikoley has a habit of venting anger about issues by attacking individuals. It's a way for him to illustrate his point.

In this example he's pointing out that a person in supposed authority over a countries health is not healthy herself and is endorsing something he believes to be wrong (healthy at any size or whatever it's called).

I have to agree with him on both points

The problem is that in the English speaking countries (US, Canada, UK, Australia etc.) being fat is the new norm. The SG says it herself 2/3rds of adults are overweight or obese and 1 in 3 children. That's insane. I think you've been living in the US for too long because that woman is not chubby she is fat.

I'm the last person to be lecturing others on how to live a healthy life-style but I can quite clearly see how a paradigm is growing in the English speaking countries where being fat is seen as normal. See things like the 'Dove Campaign' about 'real' women.

I don't think it's ok to make fun of people, or deliberately try to hurt them. But on the other hand it's not ok to sweep a problem under the carpet with this 'healthy at every size' and fat = chubby and obese = fat 'new-speak'.

War = Peace, Fat = Healthy

My beef with the Surgeon General is that she represents the pinnacle of the conventional wisdom of the health and nutrition community. They will continue to "study" the role of fat and insulin in the diet, but carbs will always be a significant part of those diets. Why don't they do a large, controlled Lo/Zero carb study? What are they afraid of?

I think as the top public health official, she is deserving of a lot of ire directed her way. Maybe some of the personal invective goes over the top, but I think we are all frustrated that the scientific evidence is so plain, and the Paleo hypothesis is clear, so why isn't it being legitimately tested? We see people we care about living overweight, but malnourished, lives, yet we feel like charlatans when we try to talk about an alternative, because we speak against the weight of government, the medical community, the media, etc.

I wholeheartedly agree that as a community we have to strive to not be so quick to judge the overweight or obese they may in fact be working on their problem. But I don't believe with the "the healthy at any size" movement that you mention I believe that their is a healthy size and body fat percentage for people and it is unhealthy to be obese or "over-fat". Those people that fall into those unhealthy Body Fat % categories should do what they can to get down to a healthy weight and once they reach that weight they should maintain a healthy lifestyle (diet and exercise). The paleo community as a health oriented community is bound to have criticisms of people who are show the obvious signs of bad health such as obesity. I believe the issue at hand is making our criticism more constructive and less destructive. Being skinny does not = health, but being obese is an indicator of bad health.

It makes sense to me that there would be fatism in the paleo community, considering that so many of us made the journey back to normal weight and good health. Personally, I was never huge, but 30 pounds of subcutaneous fat hanging off an otherwise skinny body was not pretty. When I'd lay on my side in bed, my stomach would sort of flow out onto the mattress. My wife told me right to my face that I looked disgusting, and she was absolutely right. I understand where Richard Nikoley is coming from, but I have mixed feelings about that blog entry. On the one hand, I completely agree with him. On the other hand, I think he's needlessly cruel.

"your choices are half chance, so are everybody else’s"

From the song 'Everybody's free (to wear sunscreen)' (lyrics) by Baz Luhrmann

I guess we, in the paleo community, all at one moment stumbled upon the paleo principle, weather it was by a friend, by actively searching the net, or by 'inventing' the paleo principles yourself.

And since an evolutionary view of the human organism is such a strong one, we probalby all had similar feelings when we know someone with health and/or weight problems: 'if only he/she would adapt a paleo lifestyle...'. Maybe even stronger feelings, maybe even wanting to preach about ancestral health.

And indeed, sometimes it is depressing to see many health professionals (who have a duty to know) in bad shape and overweight. And it certainly makes me anger knowing that sometimes people give ill advice because of commercial interests.

But you can only hold people responsible for their actions, if they are aware of the responsibility and are educated about them. And that's where we got lucky. We stumbled upon the paleo principles.

So I think we should not point to the obese. We should raise awareness. And lead by example. And hope that we can reach a certain tipping point. Bottom up r-evolution.

Beyond the bad information pushed by the FDA Food Pyramid, there is a socio-economic element to weight. Poor Americans are likely to fat Americans because the cheapest foods are full of subsidized corn and sugar. Lets not forget this: personal problems, when widespread, become public issues.

So what. Richard is a jerk. He is also correct. Some of us take pleasure in the misfortune of others.

Re the SG, remember who's really in charge of all things having to do with official government positions on nutrition: ADM, Con-Agra, Monsanto, et al collectively called "Big Ag." That they receive enormous subsidies to produce their junk commodity crops yet still wield this kind of power will always be baffling to me.

I think that one point, that Yoannah is trying to make is their is a difference between: -Being healthy whatever your current size is -Any size can be healthy

For me, the idea of being healthy whatever your current size is acceptance. That is the first part of change. Once there is acceptance, then true, lasting change can occur. Accepting where you are starting from is not the same as saying that is the ideal and healthy size.

I think a slogan that we all can get behind is: "Be healthier." No matter what your lifestyle is right now, there are ways that all of us can be healthier.

And let's keep in mind that having a healthy body is not only the food we put in our mouth or how we exercise our body but the toxins we expose ourselves to.

Let us lead by example (not through lecturing or demeaning others) and just *emphasized text*be healthier*emphasized text*.