Hi, My question concerns the relationship between muscle glycogen liver glycogen and ketosis.
Particularly, I am wondering if there is a way to have full or nearly full muscle glycogen levels while having low liver glycogen levels.
The reason I ask is because liver glycogen levels determine ketosis; you must deplete liver glycogen only to enter ketosis rather than that of both muscle and liver.
This seems possible since natural starch i.e. glucose preferentially restores muscle glycogen over liver glycogen while natural sugar i.e. fructose repletes liver glycogen.
Specifically, I am wondering if there is a way to manipulate dietary carbohydrate by way of using glucose without fructose in order to establish a state of ketosis (depleted liver glycogen) and maintain a decent amount of muscle glycogen (50-75%).
All comments and discussions welcome!
p.s. I need to be in ketosis to function in school without which I have energy crashes all the time ketosis keeps my energy levels steady and soaring mentally and aerobically but i want to lift weights and look good with a low carb (some peri workout carbs) diet my body equals that of the genetically gifted mesomorph but with a SAD I am merely a skewed endomorph. about 60g (sweet potato) post workout and I have effortless muscle building and fat loss. yes weight loss equals muscle and fat loss almost ubiquitously but people have to start calling it fat loss and weight gain good weight gain is muscle gain so you shouldn't even necessarily be losing weight for a good body composition.
Targeted ketogenic diet. Have ~100g of carbs from starches around workouts, which should help preferentially fill in glycogen levels.
Ketosis has more to do with how long it has been since you've had carbohydrates. Muscle glycogen content has more to do with your activity:carb ratio.
And unfortunately you are not gaining muscle effortlessly while losing fat on a keto diet. You are probably making strength gains, which are neural, but not related to net muscle protein accretion. If you are an overfat beginner, you may make some true muscle gains while losing fat, but they will be minimal and certainly not effortless. If you are not very fat, or not a beginner, simultaneous muscle gain and fat loss is not possible.
If your goal is getting stronger/more muscular, you really should give up a ketogenic diet. If your goal is losing fat, keto is fine.
It's an interesting idea. Dietary glucose, although it goes preferentially to muscle glycogen, also goes into liver glycogen. The pathway is not fully understood but liver glycogen does get replenished after eating starch. So you might slightly promote ketosis by eating starches rather than fructose-bearing sugars, but only slightly.
However, you can also force the liver to export ketones by flooding it with short- and medium-chain fatty acids. This will happen regardless of liver glycogen levels.
So I think some combination of eating starches (ie white potatoes rather than sweet potatoes) and coconut milk would be a good strategy to try.
Strictly speaking, the workouts themselves will send glycogenic precursors (lactate/alanine) to the liver, which along with the post-workout starch, will replete liver glycogen to some extent.
I think a sedentary person should be able to remain in ketosis with a fairly substantial amount of starch. Anecdotally, I've observed that on non-workout days where I eat a lot of sweet potatoes throughout the day I am more prone to hypoglycemia a while after eating and my body temperature is lower than on days where I eat sweet potatoes & apples. Glucose by itself is used peripherally and does a very poor job of repleting liver glycogen.
On the other hand, the sedentary in ketosis would be sending alanine to the liver due to muscle breakdown resulting from cortisol-induced glucose scavenging.
So to answer your question, I have no idea.
I don't see a scenario where this works out. The liver's glucose supply is there to keep vital systems alive- like the brain. The muscle glycogen is there mainly for the local muscle tissue (at least that's my impression). So the body's survival system will select for depleting muscle glycogen and keeping the emergency supply in the liver. The body will make sugar out of protein rather than let the liver supply get too depleted.
Look, you sound like you are doing pretty good right now. You are over thinking everything! Liver glycogen stores don't effect ketosis. Fooling around with glucose supplementation probably will. Spike your insulin high enough, and you shut down ketone production. Can I possibly yell louder over the internet? It sounds like you are already doing a good job; don't screw it up chasing some mirage!
Its preposterous to think that it is impossible to lose fat AND gain muscle at the same time. PREPOSTEROUS!!!! Its ALSO preposterous to think that you need massive amounts of protein AND/OR excess calories to gain muscle.
Neither makes any sense whatsoever, no matter how much they sound right or the protein/supplement companies want you to believe.
1 LB of muscle is 454 Grams. About 90 grams and even less is protein, the rest is primarily WATER, Glucose and fat. Notice WATER is mostly what muscle is comprised of. How many calories/carbs/protein/or fat does WATER contain? I thought so.
All your body needs to do is lay down 90 whopping grams of muscle protein and SHIZAM you have 454grams (1 Pound) of new muscle (like magiK)
Lets not even begin to talk about hyper hydrating, carb loading, creatine loading, Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy ALL of which will cause a gain in LBM completely without dietary protein, heck, some of them completely without any action whatsoever, and most of which will cause increased LBM even in a calorie deficit state!!!!
And yes, of course you can be in ketosis AND have any % of muscle glycogen, heck, you can even be at 101+% of normal muscle glycogen AND be 'in' ketosis. Ketosis is in full swing once liver glycogen is empty. Stop eating carbs and depending on how much sugar the rest of your body is burning your liver will empty out pretty quick <24hrs and you will most certainly in ketosis.
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