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Looking at the broad spectrum of Paleo advocates, there is rarely ever clear consensus on how things should be done.

Some say sugar is a crucial dietary component; others think they are the root of all evil in this world.
Some emphasize the importance of vegetables; others say they don't matter. Etc.

So far, the consistencies I see are are "Seed oil is bad", "Gluten is not good", and "Eat some meat."

Thoughts?

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Thanks, we need some common ground around here today. – raney May 17 2012 at 22:23
I disagree that PUFAs are bad. Now oxidized PUFAs, yes. – Dan May 17 2012 at 22:45
I disagree that gluten is bad, just for some people. – Mscott May 17 2012 at 23:22
Yeah, you won't find Kurt Harris agreeing that gluten is bad. So scratch that one. – Karen P. May 18 2012 at 0:44
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"Now oxidized PUFAs..." - yet some people are fine grinding nuts into flour and baking it. Oxidized PUFAs galore. – Paleo2.0 May 18 2012 at 1:47
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24 Answers

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eat meat.

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I'd rephrase as "eat fat-soluble nutrients" - but they are (hopefully) one in the same. – raney May 18 2012 at 0:35
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Even this is disputed by some – HuntingBears May 18 2012 at 10:47
@raney - thats not rephrasing it. that is saying a totally different thing! – peter May 18 2012 at 11:00
Depends on what kind of meat! :P – Matt May 18 2012 at 13:10
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Bacon Rocks

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That Fruit Loops, Wheaties, and the like are not food. For no species, actually...

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+1 for making me giggle, although my son (and dog) would disagree! – MathGirl72 May 17 2012 at 22:54
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There's such a range of what's paleo...it's rather mind boggling. I think one of the most common grounds is "unprocessed". Stay as unprocessed in your food choices as you can. Of course then there is bacon...I think most agree on bacon :)

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Any cooked food is processed. Bone stock is definitely processed. A raw grain of wheat is unprocessed but probably no definitely my last choice of food, right before or next to paper and cotton balls. – ulcova May 18 2012 at 1:59
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Processed by us and processed by Big Food,Inc are distinctively different, however. I trust myself, mostly. – raney May 18 2012 at 2:12
only uncured bacon without nitrates... i actually can live without bacon... I prefer pork bellies... YUM – coffeesnob May 18 2012 at 2:35
Ooh yes, pork belly...one of our favorite cuts of meat. I'm hoping that when I say "unprocessed" that my meaning is clear. Paleo folks stay away from grains, I figured that was a given. – Karin May 18 2012 at 4:12
@raney: that's not what I meant. Defining paleo simply as eating "unprocessed" vs "processed" is incorrect, imo. – ulcova May 18 2012 at 4:12
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  1. No grains.

  2. No industrial seed oils.

  3. Pastured and/or grass finished when possible.

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For the first year, and then you start to question things... – raney May 17 2012 at 23:58
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^ If it takes you a whole year to start questioning things, you're easily satisfied. – Kasra May 18 2012 at 6:47
@raney, which of those do you question? – Dangph May 18 2012 at 12:44
PHD includes rice, a grain. – Matt May 18 2012 at 13:12
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I'm not so sure about the two things you came up with. I'm ok with PUFAs, at least in a somewhat decent O3:O6 ratio coming from whole foods not from refined processed oils. I'm actually ok with gluten right now, I think most people with healthy digestive systems should be able to consume it without issue.

It would be hard to get people to agree to absolutes. I think talking of minimizing exposure to problematic things probably could get widespread support amongst the different paleo brands; minimizing: refined oils, refined sugar, processed foods, legumes, grains, gluten, etc... Minimizing could mean reducing to zero, or it could be an occasional dose once in a while.

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Seed oils, gluten, sun and the necessity of animal products.

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I think that in addition to Gluten/PUFAs are bad, that most Paleo-ites will agree that it boils down to do your research but at the end of the day, you have to do what works for you and helps you achieve your specific goals-- health, energy, weight loss, etc.

There's almost never going to be a consensus on any topic related to diet (even within a group of people that have agreed that SAD is crap) -- because there's almost always contradictory evidence/studies/personal experience. One day, far in the future, we might know the exact diet that's optimal for each individual.. but until then, we have to digest (no pun intended) the data that we find and trust and apply it to our own lives, in the manner we find works best for us.

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I believe that everyone agrees to disagree as long as what works for you is what makes you happy and healthy!

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The community most definitely does not agree to disagree! :P – Matt May 18 2012 at 13:14
We are disageeable most days. Even right is wrong if you think about it for a while. – thhq May 20 2012 at 0:14
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I think we all agree that "food" invented since industrialization and especially since recent technological innovations isn't, for the most part, fit for human consumption. I'm talking about highly processed foods, like Fruit Loops and Wheaties (as ulcova mentioned).

As for the rest? I've seen a lot of argument about how toxic gluten is lately. Many of us eat dairy products. Many of us allow some grain in our diets (white rice, occasional corn, etc). Some of us eat "traditionally prepared" legumes. There's a lot of variation :)

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This is why I think Paleo and Weston Price principles go so well together. – coffeesnob May 18 2012 at 2:44
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Eat real food that this planet gave us.

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Vague. Are peanuts food? Is uranium food? – Kasra May 18 2012 at 6:49
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The planet doesn't give a crap about us. It is completely indifferent. Nothing wants to be eaten. Except for fruit. Animals don't want to be eaten. Plants don't want to be eaten. Only fruits want to be eaten. They want us to spread their seeds. (But even then many fruits are toxic to humans.) If we only ate what the planet gives us, we would be fruitarians. But fruitarians tend get sick and brain damaged, so that is not such a good plan. – Dangph May 18 2012 at 13:17
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We all agree that Paleo Hacks is AWESOME

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We are complicated creatures.

We walk toward our graves, each step closer to our demise.

We know that we know nothing beyond the things that we can sense through our fingers, eyes, ears, heart, mind, tongue, nose.

We feel love. We can't explain it.

We structure our lives around the experience and avoidance of pain.

We come to "paleo," whatever that means, because we are broken, wanting, needing answers, looking for harmony. And our search finds us rejecting the labels and ingredients that we've made ourselves in favor of the taste and depth of the natural world.

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very poetic and thoughtful! – Lady_Arwen May 18 2012 at 17:57
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Industrial seed oils are bad. I think that is what separates "ancestral" from some other whole-food approaches.

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I think we all agree that:

  • Dietary saturated fat and cholesterol are not dangerous
  • Dietary fiber is not necessary for healthy digestion/elimination
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We all probably spend too much time altogether thinking about food and what we eat. Speaking of too much time on food, I should get to bed...

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Health is intimately tied in to every other facet of life. I can think of no better topic to discuss. – Kasra May 18 2012 at 8:42
Yeah, because as a regular poster I'm clearly against discussion based around it. I was joking that we spend a lot of time thinking and talking about it that we probably could be doing better things sometimes, like sleeping, moving, or actually eating! – JeJ May 18 2012 at 15:44
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Does everyone agree on coconut oil?

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I don't like the taste of anything coconutty and I can't stomach the fruit very well either, gives me slight discomfort. Since it is a food that originates only in South East Asia and thus nowhere in my ancestry (Europe, straight up from Africa with a short stop in the Middle East) I would be the first generation in my complete ancestry to bring it in my system. Nowadays they grow coconut all over the world, but not for that long. My grandmother maybe was the first to ever see one at a specialty grocery for big money. Don't remember my parents wver eating one. Same with bananas... – ulcova May 18 2012 at 14:20
Kiwis for example I remember first seeing as a teenager, imported from New Zealand or Australia, can't remember. Nowadays a common item at the grocer's in Europe or USA. I am allergic to them, make my mouth itch and swell, no surprise here. – ulcova May 18 2012 at 14:22
No, coconut oil is like intestinal lubricant for me and I have heard that sentiment on here as well. Eastern Europeans were not meant to eat coconuts! – Laina May 18 2012 at 14:53
My husband has an army survival guide and it says to be careful eating a lot of coconut if stuck on a tropical island because it contains oil that causes diarrhea. I had no idea until I was eating coconut and he pointed it out to me. – kathleen May 18 2012 at 17:09
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I agree that we all will never be able to agree - which is itself paleo ;)

Paleo is about freedom not restriction.

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Freedom's just another word for burgers on the grill. Flower children makin' bacon. Er...mind's in the gutter today... – thhq May 19 2012 at 23:20
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Generally good: but with individual variation

1) grass-fed pastured animal foods

2) wild seafood

3) local, non-sprayed (with pesticides) produce

4) fermented/cultured vegetables and fermented pastured grass-fed dairy (if tolerated)

5) bone broths from pastured animals and wild seafood

Generally poorer quality (less nutrient dense foods) frowned upon except perhaps rice, green beans, and green peas:

1) grains - esp. gluten

2) legumes

3) industrial seed oils

4) peanuts

5) dried fruit, fruit juices, pasteurized products

6) beer or any fermented beverage made with gluten

varies on individual:

1) dairy (esp. raw grass-fed) - depends on casein/lactose sensitivity

2) coconut (ex. coconut milk, oil, butter, etc.)

3) tree nuts (ex: nut butters or nut milks like almond milk or almond butter)

4) nightshades (eggplant, sweet and hot peppers, potatoes, and tomatoes)

5) caffeine - tea, coffee, dark chocolate etc.

6) wine, NorCal margaritas, etc.

7) starches - yams, sweet potatoes, plantains, tubers, yucca, tapioca, etc.

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I think I see a lot of consistencies in the paleo ideas of what foods are good and which aren't, and it seems that with many versions of what paleo is, they can be divided into weight-loss paleo and paleo with safe starches included.

There are the items which you're first told to avoid, then told is okay or okay if your body doesn't have a bad reaction to it. But if one avoids the always-avoid-this advice and the this-is-always-okay advice, I think there is a lot of consistency. I don't think I have ever heard anyone in the paleosphere advocate any of the following:

  • gluten is an essential nutrient
  • consume unlimited amounts of omega-6 fatty acids
  • refined carbohydrates are good for you

So if you say that cutting grains and foods based on refined carbohydrates/processed foods and adjust you omega-6/omega-3 fatty acid balance, and in stead substitute meats/eggs, vegetables(/fruits), then you probably would be doing a bad thing.

Something I believe is more unique to the paleo idea has to do with the ideas behind it. It can seem like conventional wisdom is based on the idea of paleolithic human life as one with insufficient food supply, and agriculture and civilisation as progress, also nutrition-wise. In a paleo way of thinking, a food item having been part of a stone age diet is a selling point. In the newspaper I have seen articles on paleo in here in Denmark, the stone age way of eating* is judged by use of todays conventional wisdom (sat. fat is bad, fibers are good...). I would think that people with an inclination towards paleo, would turn it upside down and rather assess the modern nutritional advice by ideas of pre-agriculture diets (using principles of biological evolution) and of hunter-gatherer diets.

*I'm not writing paleo diet, since I'm not sure now which paleo version the article talked about.

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There is no such thing as too much fat in your diet or in your life. I made a hat out of lard and I wear it to work.

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I think there can, in fact, be too much fat in a man's life. However, short of habitually drinking oil, I do agree that it's pretty hard to go overboard on paleo-ish foods. – Kasra May 19 2012 at 0:11
^ Lol diregard that, I didn't notice the most important part of your answer. Lard hat > serious business. – Kasra May 19 2012 at 0:12
I used to have a lard ass. – thhq May 19 2012 at 23:13
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Offal is definitely not waste material.

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Yup, and gelatin too. – Kasra May 19 2012 at 23:13
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Meat. Everyone agrees on this, and it sets paleo apart as a high protein diet.

Motion. Hunt and gather behavior is a metabolic effect quite different from Neolithic sedentism.

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Everything in Moderation

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No thank you. You can keep your industrial seed oils, GMO grains, and HFCS and artificial food colorings. I don't even want that garbage in moderation. – invisible ink May 19 2012 at 2:54
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@invisible: "Moderation" is context-dependent. By definition, moderation implies a proper amount. It may just happen that a moderate dose of seed oil is far lower than what is commonly assumed. – Kasra May 19 2012 at 3:15
You shouldn't abandon the paradigm of "everything in moderation." You should simply modify your interpretation of "moderation" as you accrue information. – Kasra May 19 2012 at 3:18
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Nope. Everything in moderation is the excuse used by the average person to eat a donut or have any type of food no matter how bad for you. Everything is the key word here - all paleos do not agree to try a bit of everything. – RS May 19 2012 at 8:40
I can't decide which is worse. Moderation or eating low reward foods. – thhq May 19 2012 at 23:12

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