Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

Question

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I always had warm hands.

Started to eat a lot of vegetables for well over a year, cooked and raw. Lunch is three cups of chopped raw vegetables with olive oil (home made balsamic vinaigrette). Originally; carrot, red pepper, cucumber, cauliflower, radish, broccoli.

Started to notice cold hands, numb fingertips. Not severe, but definitely noticeable. Eat plenty of cruciferous vegetables otherwise, mainly cooked; steamed broccoli, roasted cauliflower, sautéed brussels sprouts. I like running low-cal veggies through the system, along with the meat.

Anyway, came across iodine deficiency. Started kelp tablets (Solgar 200 mcg) and dialed back the cruciferous vegetables, eat some seaweed. The new lunch tub is raw; carrots, red pepper, cucumber, jerusalem artichoke, celery, asparagus. Hands better but not normal.

Went back to lunch tub #1, with the raw crucifers for a week to see how it'd go (and to get a dose of glucosinolates to stave off all the nascent cancers I've accumulated from previous poor-living). Hands, fingertips especially, definitely worse.

Is this just an iodine thing? I am not going to get tested because I want no part of the thyroid merry-go-round unless absolutely necessary.

Will knock off all vegetables for lunch to see how that affects things. Wanted to see if I'm on point here, or if you have any other ideas.

Thanks

flag	asked Jun 6 at 14:21 Jim B 685●7

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This might not be your issue at all, but have you ever heard of Raynaud's phenomenon? It's not an "all the time thing" - it flares up quickly and goes away quickly. Basically, all of a sudden, your hands (fingertips specifically) get really cold, and can even get tingly/painful or numb. (Sometimes even turn whitish or blue, b/c the circulation gets cut off.) You're probably right to tinker with your food, though. It doesn't sound like you have Raynaud's, but I wanted to make you aware of it just in case. (You can Google it for more info.) – Amy B. Jun 6 at 14:29

Are you eating meat or fish along with your veg? Enough salt? – Karen Jun 6 at 14:54

I suspect you're right that it's related to the raw crucifer intake, just asked about the others to check on other things. – Karen Jun 6 at 14:56

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Raw veggies, intermittent fasting, low-carbing, ... can all put a certain amount of stress on a body. – Korion Jun 6 at 15:02

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Jim, you can get a thyroid panel and keep the results to yourself by using an online provider. – Sam Knox Jun 6 at 21:58

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j3wcy · Answer 1 · 2012-06-06 14:29:18Z UTC

I've read some people report treating this with magnesium, even though this didn't work for me. I've had similar symptoms for years and nothing really helped until I tried Peat. Still undecided on the other effects of that approach, but I am noticeably warmer; my hands and feet especially. Also I would be careful of supplementing iodine unless you are getting adequate selenium.

Matthius · Answer 2 · 2012-06-06 14:33:27Z UTC

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The following things cause me to develop cold hands and feet:

BMI less than 20.0
fasting for more than 12 hours
insufficient sleep (less than 7 hours)
intense stress
very low fat (sub-40g)
low carb (sub-100g)

And there's really no downside to getting your blood hormone levels tested. Just interpret the results in their proper context.

answered Jun 6 at 14:33

Matthius
3,098●2●17

	Should have mentioned, I lost over 50 lbs, but BMI = 22.1. Do IF every day (skip breakfast) and have had periods of VLC-LC, but probably not especially low for the last month. I will get tested if I can't get a handle on things. Thanks – Jim B Jun 6 at 14:39
	Sleep < 7 also. Thanks again. – Jim B Jun 6 at 14:44
	I agree with Matthius. It might be wise to have your adrenals tested, or at least informally monitored through testing body temperature, checking eye sensitivity, etc. Cortisol raised through stress (physical or emotional) will pull blood to your core as a survival mechanism. A simple allergy to a specific food, going too low on calories, not enough sleep, etc will all produce that response of adrenals. Doing an elimination diet of sorts to determine if it's a specific food may be beneficial if you truly believe it's a particular food or food group. – Elizabeth Jun 7 at 2:06

Irene · Answer 3 · 2012-06-06 14:36:59Z UTC

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try a lot of spices (curcumin, ginger, tumeric etc) add lots of spices to a vegetable curry dish, these are suppose to be brilliant for cold hands, cold feet, hope this helps

answered Jun 6 at 14:36

Irene
389●3●7

Interesting, will try it out. – Jim B Jun 6 at 14:45

wudshapr · Answer 4 · 2012-06-06 14:45:05Z UTC

This is a long shot, but if just the thumb, pointer, middle, and just the "thumb side" of the ring finger are experiencing this, it most certainly is your median nerve being constricted inside your carpal tunnel. You can ascertain it with the specifics of the areas affected as mentioned. This is better known as carpal tunnel syndrome. This stems from repetitive movement, using certain tools with vibration over time, and sometimes genetic. Just an idea, as I am dealing with it currently.

Crowlover · Answer 5 · 2012-06-06 15:26:51Z UTC

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What comes to mind for me with what you describe is that you might have low thyroid. The very first sign that my thyroid is low is cold hands as you described. That is what is noticeable first, when its lower a lot of other things happen. Are your feet also cold? You are eating a lot of cruciferous veggies, you have or think you have low iodine and both these can cause or go along with low thyroid.

What is the "Thyroid Merry-Go-Round" you refer to? I'm sure nobody with hypo-thyroid wanted to have it.

answered Jun 6 at 15:26

Crowlover
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Sorry, poorly stated - I do think it might be diet-related low thyroid from consuming too many cruciferous vegetables (caused by me, in other words), and don't want to go on record with tests, thereby giving my primary care physician ammunition to medicate me. That's provided I can correct it with diet modification. I'll get checked out otherwise. Just wanted to see what people think about crucifer consumption - low thyroid, whether it's actually plausible. Thanks – Jim B Jun 6 at 15:38

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OK thanks. From what I have been advised cruc. veggies can make an already existing thyroid problem worse, but the cannot cause a perfectly healthy thyroid to go rouge. I can tell you that if I were in your place I would want to know what my Tpo Antibodies were! Might want to run a full thyroid panel & from there decide how to treat the issue. Good luck. – Crowlover Jun 6 at 16:39

Lady_Arwen · Answer 6 · 2012-06-06 20:12:17Z UTC

Read 2 books:

Why Do I Still Have Thyroid Symptoms? When My Lab Tests Are Normal: A Revolutionary Breakthrough In Understanding Hashimoto's Disease and Hypothyroidism by Dr. Datis Kharrazian, DHSc, DC, MS, MNeuroSci, FAACP, DACBN, DABCN, DIBAK, CNS - chiropractic doctor

AND

Iodine: Why you need it, Why you can't live without it by Dr. David Brownstein, MD

For more Paleo Diet hacks: Are people curing hypothyroid??? - PaleoHacks.com http://paleohacks.com/questions/106904/are-people-curing-hypothyroid#ixzz1wsKV6BzQ

I have to believe iodine and selenium is fairly important especially if consuming goitrogens and fermented vegetables. My husband and I were consuming about 1-2 pounds of COOKED goitrogenic vegetables per day with no supplemental iodine or selenium. We were using sea salt which doesn't have much iodine. We started to develop symptoms like fatigue, feeling cold, cold hands etc. These symptoms happened in both low carb and higher carb contexts, although higher carbohydrate may mask thyroid symptoms - this was mentioned multiple times at Paleo FX in Austin.

Within days of slow adding kelp supplementation (building from 150 mcg to currently 600 mcg over a month) and 150-200 mcg of selenium daily we notice a big difference in energy and not feeling cold. We have also limited our goitrogens by eliminating fermented vegetables since we do fine with raw dairy for probiotics.

We thought cooking and eating lots of saturated fat would take care of the goitrogens, but apparently that wasn't enough for us. So I compiled this list to help those trying to limit goitrogens or have had a similar experience.

Non-Goitrogenic Produce

Avocado - improves thyroid function

Banana, Plaintain

Berries (except strawberries), Cherries, Citrus (lemon, lime, grapefruit, orange, etc.), Melons

Apricots, Dragonfruit, Starfruit, Grapes, Guava, Kiwi, Lychee, Mango, Apple, Pineapple, Pomegranate

Nightshades - Peppers (sweet/bell and hot), Eggplant, Tomatoes, Potatoes

Squashes - Cabeza, Zuccinni, Yellow, Butternut, Pumpkin, Bittermelon (Corolla) technically fruit

Peas, Green Beans, Carrots

Okra

Asparagas, Artichoke

Lettuce, Celery, Cucumber

Herbs - Oregano, Basil, Thyme, Parsley, Cilantro, Parsley

Mushrooms

Onions, Leeks, garlic, shallots, chives

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goitrogen Goitrogens are substances that suppress the thyroid gland by interfering with iodine uptake, which can, as a result, cause an enlargement of the thyroid, i.e., a goitre.

Fermented Vegetables in brine (salt water) NOT vinegar have high Goitrogens since the bacteria convert more to that form as in Sauerkraut, Kimchi, Pickle, etc. Certain raw foods (cooking inactivates some of the goitrogens, except in the cases of soy and millet) have been identified as goitrogenic. These goitrogenic foods include:

Cassava (Tapioca), Sweet Potatoes, Rutabagas, Radishes (inc. Daikon), Turnips

Soybeans (and soybean products such as tofu, soybean oil, soy flour, soy lecithin) (High)

Pine nuts, Peanuts, Flaxseeds, Lima Beans

Millet (High)

Strawberries, Pears, Peaches (low)

Bamboo shoots

Spinach

Vegetables in the genus Brassica (cruciferous)

Bok choy, Choy sum, Mizuna Tatsoi,

Broccoli, Broccolini, Broccoflower, Kai-lan (Chinese broccoli), Rapini, Cauliflower

Brussels sprouts, Cabbage, Chinese cabbage

Canola (Rapeseed), Yu Choy,

Collard greens, Mustard Greens, Kale

Horseradish

Kohlrabi

Mustard (low)

Despite being generally a stimulant, caffeine (examples: coffee, tea, cola, chocolate) acts on thyroid function as a suppressant. Indeed some studies on rats suggest that excess caffeine in conjunction with a lack of iodine may promote the formation of thyroid cancers. Masterjohn recommends no more then 5 servings of goitrogens/week and Kresser no more then 3-6 servings/week for anyone with thyroid issues.

Paul Jaminet, Chris Masterjohn, and Chris Kresser have written well on this.

http://www.westonaprice.org/basics/bearers-of-the-cross

Fermentation makes soy goitrogens worse! http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2010/10/fermentation-does-not-neutrailize.html

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ppccontent/PPCGoitrogen.pdf

For more Paleo Diet hacks: Have you had a possible iodine and/or selenium deficiency (or symptoms of it) on an ancestral diet even with cooking goitrogens? - PaleoHacks.com http://paleohacks.com/questions/111727/have-you-had-a-possible-iodine-and-or-selenium-deficiency-or-symptoms-of-it-on#ixzz1tZqqlDIu

For more Paleo Diet hacks: Hypothyroidism? - PaleoHacks.com http://paleohacks.com/questions/82040/hypothyroidism#ixzz1wsL1qMzy

Ryan · Answer 7 · 2012-06-07 02:31:28Z UTC

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Check out dannyroddy.com or raypeat.com

Do some research through either of those two websites, helped me quite a bit with the exact same problem.

answered Jun 7 at 2:31

Ryan
11●1

neeters · Answer 8 · 2012-11-05 02:37:36Z UTC

don't know how old you are but i'm wondering if you have low progesterone? adding a small amount of natural progesterone cream may be enough to warm you up and boost your thyroid. HOWEVER< if you have estrogen dominance, this can give you hypo thyroid symptoms, like freezing cold hands, and general fatigue, but your thyroid bloodwork will be normal. that's because the estrogen blocks the thyroid hormone from entering the cells...I know as I suffer from this for a year. its getting better now that I found a doctor to prescribe bio identical progesterone, taking Calcium D glucarate to eliminate extra estrogen, and addressing reactive hypoglycemia with Metformin...so far so good!

Hack my Cold Hands

8 Answers