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Acupuncture, chiropractic, herbalism, homeopathy, etc.

I'd be interested to know what everyone thought of these various forms of treatment. I myself have had a lot of help from these forms, especially since both my acupuncturist and herbalist recommended the paleo diet.

Also, can a chiro really treat a hiatal hernia? My mom has one and I've been reading about it on the web, but I notice chiros tend to claim to be able to cure everything from digestive issues to world hungry.

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I don't utilize chiro's anymore, and for those that do and see positive results? Approve. Acupuncture I have appointments monthly. Approve. Homeopathy? Approve. Herbalism? Approve. – jesuisjuba - paleorepublic.com Jun 20 2012 at 1:28

16 Answers

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Permit me to get on my soapbox.

It's a huge pet peeve of mine that we compare alternative/complementary/holistic medicine to allopathic (Western) medicine. Western medicine treats the body as a machine. You manipulate the input (the drug) and hopefully you get the result you want with few side effects, or you treat the side effects with more drugs. When you're in an acute crisis (heart attack, got run over by a truck, and other immediate life threatening illnesses, Western medicine has the best technology to keep you alive. For chronic illness, it's not so great.

The holistic paradigm is very different. If someone is ill they might do a combination of diet changes, herbs, acupuncture, chiropractic, lifestyle changes, relaxation techniques, and other modalities TOGETHER. That's the point of holistic healing. You're looking for something deeper than some superficial imbalance that you're going to throw a drug at. You're looking for a number of shifts that you can make together to help someone heal.

When we come to a paleo diet to heal their illnesses I imagine that many of us also quit smoking, get more sleep, slow down, maybe focus more on our relationships. In other words, many of us are making a number of changes, holistically, to improve our lives. And, these holistic changes can take much longer to sink in than a drug that targets one symptom.

When Western medicine wants to poo poo alternative medicine, it's really easy. They pick one intervention (let's say herbs), they give test subjects a pitifully low dose of the herb, wait a short period of time, and report that nothing happens. They're using their paradigm to discredit a whole other paradigm. That's comparing apples to oranges.

So, when someone asks me if herbs work, or acupuncture, or chiropractic, my answer is always -- it depends. It depends on the skill of the practitioner, the power of their technology, and very much on what else the client is doing to heal themselves. So, it's not a simple question of whether something is quackery or not. It takes much more investigation to answer that question and everyone will have their own answer. But, there's no simple answer even with Western medicine either.

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" When you're in an acute crisis (heart attack, got run over by a truck, and other immediate life threatening illnesses), Western medicine has the best technology to keep you alive. For chronic illness, it's not so great." That's exactly what I've heard many times and there's definitely a whole lot of truth in that statement. I think one of the reasons the chronic treatments aren't as good as they could be is industry interests: there's a lot of money to be made of people who are chronically ill... – Ben Jun 8 2012 at 0:22
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+1 for imbalance that you're going to throw a drug at. It's one of the reasons why I'm no longer practicing pharmacy. – MiMintzer Jun 8 2012 at 0:25
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"When Western medicine wants to poo poo alternative medicine, it's really easy. They pick one intervention (let's say herbs), they give test subjects a pitifully low dose of the herb, wait a short period of time, and report that nothing happens. They're using their paradigm to discredit a whole other paradigm. That's comparing apples to oranges." Could you give an example of a clinical trial that does exactly that? It's not that I don't believe it (it sounds exactly as what I would expect), but I'd just like to see it with my own eyes. – Ben Jun 8 2012 at 0:33
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@Jamie Yes, if I would be possible for science to be (a) more open-minded and (b) somehow letting go of corporate interests, I believe we could see major breakthroughs being made. It would result in more people being actually cured and less people being scammed (because a lot of those who do feel conventional medicine doesn't offer a solution look for alternative treatment, but don't always know the difference between a genuine therapist and a scammer). – Ben Jun 8 2012 at 11:06
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@Jamie... I've been thinking about an organization that promotes science to cooperate with alternative medicine and vice versa, so that (a) people can benefit from both aspects and (b) the distinction between science and alternative medicine as we know it today could one day even disappear. Maybe I'm just utterly naive (I probably am :) ), but I do believe there's some potential in that idea anyway. – Ben Jun 8 2012 at 11:11
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Some of it is good, some of it is bad, some of it has really useful placebo effect which fits nicely into the "do no harm" injunction. It's hard to find good reliable research due to problems with funding, especially with drug companies providing so much of the funding out there.

Some people have a tendency to buy any alternative therapy on faith. A lot of times that isn't a problem (see placebo effect), but when people with really serious illness neglect to seek professional help because they are pursuing alt therapy on their own or from a less than ethical practitioner, that can be deadly.

That isn't to say to just by what the first doctor you see tells you. There's a huge amount of BS out there. It means to do the work. Get a second or third diagnosis from the best docs in the field that you can find.

Do the research, on both the conventional and alternative therapies. Make sure that the research is reliable. Sometimes the science will support the conventional, sometimes alternate therapies. If you consider diet an alt therapy, it and lifestyle changes are the best for diabetes type 2, prediabetes etc IMO. A lot of times an alt therapy will be extremely useful in conjunction with conventional.

Just don't buy into something on faith. Go with the science.

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Definitely agree with it, although I've got one little 'remark'. "Just don't buy into something on faith. Go with the science." is definitely something I would advocate too, but as the answer above already indicated, science can't always be trusted and it's quite hard for the regular person who didn't have any 'scientific' training, so to speak, to find out for himself whether a therapy is legit or not. – Ben Jun 8 2012 at 11:14
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Ben, that's true. I see a lot of that as a major problem in the education system (particularly US ed). We live in a world where changes occur constantly and rapidly, where information comes in as a deluge, where tv advertisements are incredibly effective persuastion. Yet most people have no idea how to sift out the garbage because our schools do not teach critical thinking and research skills. – Karen Jun 8 2012 at 15:57
At the very least people need to be skeptical. As I've heard frequently, it's good to keep and open mind, but not so open that your bran falls out. – Karen Jun 8 2012 at 15:59
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Herbs/herbalism work because herbs are FOOD - they are true compounds with significant chemical power to alter our body chemistry in a (hopefully) positive way.

Homeopathy is bull and until someone comes out with a study showing homeopathy has ANY effect, nobody should waste their money on overpriced water.*

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As far as chiropracty, acupuncture, and herbalism I say it depends on how they're used and what they're used to treat. I think they can help in some cases, do nothing, or hurt in others. It depends on context, but I don't rule them out and I appreciate discussion of their merits.

Except for homeopathy. That stuff is wierd. I don't buy it at all.

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+1 for homeopathy cartoon. So true. – Karen Jun 8 2012 at 0:03
+1 For Keanu Reeves response. – Rigton Jun 8 2012 at 1:37
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Homeopathy worked wonders for me, many times. Yes, I know it is magic. But so what? If magic is unreal, I guess falling in love is unreal and justice is unreal. – bachcole Jun 20 2012 at 2:16
You say potato, I say potahto. You say magic, I say a placebo effect that increases endorphins and it's benefit is likely via that mechanism. – Mscott Jun 20 2012 at 2:54
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I used to think that all those naturopaths, herbal doctors and acupuncturist were nothing but people who took advantage of poor innocent "naive" patients. I thought they were there to take your money and sell you a bunch of voodoo medicine.

Till I got so sick that all "traditional" medicine could not figure out what was wrong with me. A friend of mine kept telling me about a herbal doctor that really helped her, but even then, feeling like I was dying, I was reluctant to see him - I thought - if a normal doctor does not know what is wrong with me - how in the world some herbal doctor would know?

I was wrong. Very very wrong. As soon as I started taking herbal medicine, I got much better within a matter of days. And, even though I am not fully recovered yet, I cannot function without my herbal medicine. Literally, my life was saved because of some Chinese herbs with names that are difficult to pronounce.

I have also heard many interesting experiences from people who went for acupuncture. From everything I heard, it really helps.

So, I wish all those insurance companies would cover certified Chinese herbal doctors and holistic nutritionists because THEY REALLY HELP.

If nothing else works, go alternative. I swear by it.

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"If nothing else works, go alternative." +1 – Warren D Jun 8 2012 at 14:45
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Sometimes a lot of pain is necessary to open a mind. +1 – bachcole Jun 20 2012 at 2:17
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Homeopathy always irked me for some reason. I feel it's like when hipster kids started wearing thick-black rimmed glasses and ruined the Buddy Holly look for everybody. Basically, there's quacks in every profession. I've had a dozen urologists say, "All your tests are normal...here! Try this drug!" I don't doubt the power of the placebo effect, BUT I don't think herbalism by a true herbalist nor acupuncture is placebo per say. I know some people pretty damn resistant to the placebo effect, and that stuff works for them. I think some times certain things work better than others, and I also think that holistic healing takes a lot longer (whether it be from diet, supplements, herbs, whatever) than modern medicine. Now, if I get shot, I'm going to the friggin' hospital. If I want a diagnosis, I'll see the doctor. If I want the possibility of a cure, I'm going to look anywhere I can.

And as far as Quackwatch goes...Stephen Barrett has more stink on him than my ZC shit does. There's a lot more reputable people questioning him than the other way around. Plus, I've read far too many articles where he'll quote a study with three people taking an herb, and it works for one and not the other two and he says, "With a 66% failure rate, and clearly one placebo. Chamomile cannot be considered of any benefit."

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"Stephen Barrett has more stink on him than my ZC shit does." LMAO! – Amy B. Jun 8 2012 at 17:53
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But then there is this to consider

http://www.gaia-health.com/articles251/000277-quackbusters-are-busted.shtml

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We don't need Quackbusters anymore. The Internet will allow us to figure out who is the phony and who isn't. – bachcole Jun 20 2012 at 2:21
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I see a chiropractor twice a week and an acupuncturist every two weeks. They have helped far more than Western medicine. Sinus infections are treated with herbs and saline rinses; allergies are treated with herbs. Hubby is allergic to fish and shellfish, so we do keep an Epi-pen and Benedryl on hand just in case.

Western medicine has its place in critical situations, but for chronic issues, I prefer to go the natural route. You do have to be careful. There are quacks in every field, in both "alternative" and Western medicine. Research every bit of information and get a second opinion when something seems off.

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Yay for keeping the epi-pen and benedryl on hand! My BF's mom thought she got rid of his allergies with herbs when he was younger- after three trips to emerg with untreated anaphylaxis, I think they were pretty much ready to take him away from her. Always be ready with emergency supplies! Benedryl, epi-pen, charcoal, and gravol can save you from a lot of situations. – JeJ Jun 8 2012 at 16:58
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The good thing about chiropractors is (1) they can think outside of the box, unlike most MDs, (2) they don't and can't (thank God) prescribe drugs, (3) they know anatomy and physiology, and (4) they understand that the body heals itself, unlike MDs who fancy that they are gods and do all of the healing. Other than that, which is actually a very good place to start from, there is nothing magical about chiropractors. If a chiropractor has done his homework or if the problem resides in the back, a chiropractor can be of great help.

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It is very difficult, if not impossible, to answer your question completely, since the term 'alternative medicine' is so broad. It encompasses a huge number of disciplines (each with its own variations and combinations) and there even more practitioners from all kinds of backgrounds, some of whom know what they're talking about and genuinely trying to help you, others just looking to scam you.

I can give no general answer to this. Food-based healing (diet, herbs, supplements) definitely can work in a great number of circumstances if the therapist knows what he or she is talking about. Homeopathy seems to be utter B.S. to me (using the substances that make you ill in reduced form to treat that illness) and I know little credible people who promote it. Acupuncture seems to work because of a placebo effect (at least that's what I've heard, based on a recent clinical trial), but it's hard to draw strict conclusions based on that (was the therapist well-trained, was it possible for a clinical trial, which is based on western thought, to draw conclusions from a eastern practice,...?).

So, I would advise you to research both the discipline and the therapist before going to them. That's the only general advice I can give you: research, research, research, and be skeptical.

EDIT: be skeptical, not only about alternative medicine, but also about conventional medicine. There are industry interests involved in many cases, which means some clinical trials are also biased. What I've written above about alternative medicine may seem more negative than my actual position on the matter.

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I think most of it is bunk, particularly homeopathy. That one does a lot of damage, especially by those thinking they can innoculate their children with homeopathic remedies.

I think diet is very important, and drinking teas certainly won't hurt, but thinking you can dilute something out of existence, and that the "memory" of it remains and does anything is flat out quackery, and the practitioners are charlatans or dupes.

http://www.quackwatch.com/

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It's hard to take anything on that site seriously when the "experts" aren't and use the court system to make money. – MathGirl72 Jun 8 2012 at 1:33
What? The advisors to the site have to have expertise quackwatch.com/09Advisors/advbd.html and how else should they settle disputes and fraud except in a court of law? – Crowbar Jun 8 2012 at 4:11
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Do a Google search on the quacks that make up quackbusters. Using their own site to justify they are "experts" is as good as pseudoscience. – MathGirl72 Jun 11 2012 at 0:43
Perhaps we should start with you giving more specific complaints, and what you are considering to be an expert? Who qualifies to debunk alternative medicine? – Crowbar Jun 11 2012 at 1:28
Start with the link Holly posted. – MathGirl72 Jun 12 2012 at 2:43
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I can speak personally to having a chiro make my sliding hiatal hernia go away. He specializes in it. I had an endoscope which diagnosed my hiatal hernia (I had symptoms of nausea after eating anything) and mild gastritis (which the GI said alone wasn't enough for the nausea) but I started seeing a chiro shortly thereafter after looking up those who specialize in hiatal hernia/soft tissue manipulation, and I began to feel better immediately. 6 months later I had an endoscopy and a GI/small bowel series (the barium swallow) and both showed that I no longer had a hiatal hernia. I also lost a lot of weight in this time, this could have only helped.

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I've been doing acupuncture once a week for 4 months for anxiety and acne. It has done absolutely nothing.

I have also tried countless natural remedies for anxiety and acne. None of them have helped even the slightest bit.

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I know coconut oil can work against acné... Just saying :) – Ben Jun 7 2012 at 23:45
You cannot try countless natural remedies without seeing a certified licensed herbal doctor. Self-medicating will do more harm than good. – VB Jun 8 2012 at 8:17
They were under the direction of two different naturopathic doctors. Are herbalists different? – Shawn Jun 9 2012 at 14:28
Have you not been helped by upping your fat and especially coconut oil input and lowering your carb input? And is not this alternative healing, for I guarantee that mainstream doctors would tell you to not do this. – bachcole Jun 20 2012 at 2:24
coconut oil made my acne significantly worse, in fact the worst it has ever been in my life was when I was consuming 3 tbsp a day for a month. Lowering carbs, and more specifically refined sugar, does help a LOT. – Shawn Jun 20 2012 at 10:54
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there is an aphorism for modern medicine stating it's statistical, especially with the Benefit-to-risk ratio.

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Like any healing system, you have got to think for yourself. Complementary (complementing the body's own healing powers) healing has been very valuable for me and my family.

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Has it been backed up by scientific data? Are the finding significant? Does it avoid the word "energy" at all costs in any sense other than food? No?

Then it's trash.

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Sorry, I was the one who gave you -1. I can live because of that alternative medicine. I don't care if it has been backed up by scientific data or not. It works. It works for many many people. 5,000 years of Chinese medicine cannot be wrong. If you ever get very sick (God forbid) let me know - I will give you a name of a very good herbal doctor who will save your life – VB Jun 8 2012 at 8:15
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"5,000 years of Chinese medicine cannot be wrong" This flat out isn't true. There's no reason that something has to be valid just because it has progressed through time. I'm not going to say that no part of it works. In 5000 years, you are bound to find some combination of chemicals from plant extracts that have actual medicinal effects, but I wouldn't bet my life on it. I'd love to know what you're taking and for what ailment. I'd be curious to know if there has been any study done on its effects, and how much of that effect is compared to established placebo effects. – Cast Iron Brick Jun 8 2012 at 14:12
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Cast Iron Brick - Where do you think most drugs come from? – Sol Jun 8 2012 at 15:21
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"5000 years of Chinese medicine cannot be wrong." I believe in herbalism, but that statement is incorrect. What about religions? Most religions have several-thousand-year track records. – BoneBrothFast Jun 8 2012 at 15:23
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@Cast Iron Brick - I WOULD BET MY LIFE on my herbal medicine. In fact, I already did. I have wasted many months of my life not going to a herbal doctor, thinking "how good can he be". You can read my story under one of my question - about my herbal experience. Too many ailments to list :) – VB Jun 8 2012 at 16:41
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