The crowd never seems to lighten up around here does it? Even Paleo Babby Jesus eats a corn tortilla every once in a while. (Or have we kicked him out of the club already?)

What the hell ever happened to the pareto principle? You know, doing 80% paleo and 20% other good stuff? Strict paleo can be a useful tool, but I personally have absolutely no interest in following a strict diet unless I absolutely have to.

You also are going to be WAY more effective IRL when interacting with other people if you refrain from calling foods "bad." I always just say "oh, I can't have any XYZ because it makes my stomach act up/allergies worse/etc." If they want to know more about your diet, they will ask you.

Strict paleo is restrictive. I think it tends to attract people who trend towards the extreme/ascetic, people who strive for optimal, or people who are for whatever reason unable to eat any other way (IBS, gut issues or whatever). Once the latter group begins to experience a healing of the gut or the former realizes that a few compromises don’t make that much of a difference, then it only seems natural that people would tend to experiment with other non-paleo foods.

The premise that humans as a whole have not evolved since the paleolithic and should therefore only eat a diet in keeping with that stage of evolution is not widely accepted even in paleo communities, or at least if shouldn’t be. To be honest we can only speculate about some of the specifics regarding diet. The fact that any populations of humans should be adapted to be able to utilize milk beyond childhood should tell us that powerful selective forces are at work in shaping our individual evolution. I personally think it is important to take our recent ancestor’s way of life into consideration when determining what is optimal for each of us and balancing that with what is reasonable for the long-term.

It isn’t as though we all have the infrastructure or the means available to support 100% paleo compliant lifestyle. We all make some compromises and I think you’ll find that to be true once you’re a little further on your own journey. You may even find the dogmatic assertions of “newbies” to be a bit much.

Personally I find that if I follow my daily fast and workout with a PWO whey protein shake and later a decent dinner at home then I’m better able control the amount deleterious foods (for me) that I take in. Whereas if I had to pack a steak or other clean protein source with me throughout the day or try to find another source, my lifts and body recomp would suffer considerably. So I drink a shake and then eat a proper meal at home. If it means I’m not strict paleo in your eyes well so what. But for the record I really don’t see many paleos who eat grains, fermented or not on a regular basis—dairy is another case but one that is understandable in my eyes as long as your still able to move towards your optimal.

I'm definitely less hardcore paleo than I used to be. Just have come to the conclusion that paleo is too restrictive for folks with functional healthy guts. I simply minimize the verboten paleo foods and find I do just fine. I think most folks without deranged metabolisms, immune and digestive systems would also do fine with such an implementation.

Interesting observation. I can't even picture myself touching dairy and the idea of "healthy grains" makes me giggle. 100%, strictly Paleo here. It isn't hard at all and I certainly don't dwell on what I don't eat.

I think there may be some bias in the way we all talk about our diets. I totally get when folks need to be strict for health reasons, but the rest of us are all at varying degrees of compliance/adherence.

Chris Kresser nailed it when he called it a "Paleo template". Meaning there are some boundaries and depending on your individual needs, resources, and desires, your diet will not look like the diet of the Paleo next to you. It's kind of silly to compare one version of Paleo to another.

As someone who writes about this stuff, I certainly don't talk as much about my off-plan food choices. Maybe we should more often, to give a more accurate portrait of what Paleo looks like in real life. It would be fun to see a week's worth of food diary from all the big wigs, like Sisson, Wolf, Whole9, NomNomPaleo, etc. I wonder how many off-plan choices we'd see and how often?

In a philosophical way, it's sad that it's not easier to eat this way, that we have to expend so much energy just trying to stay within Paleo parameters. I wish it were easier, for all of our sakes.

I think there's a greater percentage of people on PaleoHacks who are looking to solve some serious problems they're having than in the Paleo community as a whole. They are more likely to find the typical low carb paleo diet isn't the cure all it presents itself as.

I had some serious digestive thyroid and hormonal issues that Paleo did not solve at all. When I figured out that a great deal of Paleo approved food was giving me problems, I started questioning the wisdom against all grains, dairy and legumes. I don't want to not eat something that I have no problems with and that I enjoy a great deal just because its not "Paleo." And I'm not going to stuff myself with "Paleo" foods like coconut, kale and cauliflower when they make me want to curl up and die from the pain they cause. I don't see the logic in that.

Still, I only have 1-2 servings of grains a day - rice or masa. And I do make some gluten free oat bars once in a while that are lightly sweetened with maple syrup. 80% of my diet is still Paleo and I do think Paleo is the right approach: eating animals is the most important thing, and the closer you are to the earth with your food, the better. We really do need to shift the focus in nutrition away from grains in the US. I also greatly appreciate the skepticism over popular medical advice - stay out of the sun! eat less meat! pills cure everything!, etc.

I've never been quite paleo to begin with. I find the research fascinating and the discussions more intellectual than anything I ever found on other boards.

I strive for full paleo ( no dairy, grains, potatoes, sugar, vegetable oils, legumes) whenever possible. I have been striving for full-paleo, since 2010. As a recovering alcoholic, and as someone who struggles with extreme anxiety, fatigue, and malnutrition from gluten-intolerance, I find that when I am fully "paleo-in the strict-whole30-sense", I feel tons better- almost like a new person.

I do like to eat sweet potatoes, at least once a week, to get a bit of starchy sweetness, but when I get lax and start thinking a few nights of corn chips and cheese aren't going to hurt me (every week), I can see the cumulative ill-effects on my waist-line, and general well-being.

I love cooking healthy food: meat, veggies, and the very occasional fruit dessert. Eating out is still fun, but it's expensive, and I am disappointed when I pay to eat out and can make the dish 100X better at home. We tend to have a lot of dinner parties at my place, instead.

I have been trying to think of food more as fuel and nutrition, rather than entertainment. By doing a few weeks of eating strictly unseasoned meat and heavy green veg stew, I realized that I often eat more for flavor than actual hunger.

I don't hate food, I love it! But, I think my mental priorities have changed: my every day food is about nourishing my weak body, so that I can grow stronger and accomplish more. Party food for me is for special occasions, where anything gluten-free goes, but I still can't really enjoy it as much. The co-workers pity me, because I can't eat cake. They blink, uncomprehendingly, when I say it REALLY doesn't bother me- I just don't want it.

A LONG, SUNNY, WALK IN THE WOODS= 20 SLICES OF CAKE TO ME.

I'm not paleo anymore, because I don't believe it is optimal and it is not sustainable for me as a student. Too much work cooking stuff, and if I fast I get issues.

I've shifted towards primal. I do have a few corn tortillas maybe once a month, but otherwise, it's paleo + dairy.

With the exception of corn, I'm grain-free.

Or the occasional haggis (oats), that I eat maybe twice a year.

Having started with Michael-Pollan style 'real foods', gone through WAPF and into primal/paleo I still swing between completely no-grain and a tiny bit of sourdough bread, mostly as a vehicle for delicious grass-fed butter. Sometimes I think I should be stricter but I've tested negative for celiac, have no autoimmune issues, and though my gut is wobbly on occasion, going gluten free didn't seem to make any difference. But I'd never go back to lots of starch/grains, even prepared WAPF-style - my rosacea has cleared up, my weight dropped a little (I wasn't overweight to begin with) and stabilised with no hunger issues. All in all I'm happy being mostly paleo, with an odd bit of sourdough and other 'stretches' including daily dark chocolate and a glass of wine with dinner and a small amount of dairy. For me it's a more workable, long-term strategy than trying to be stricter and stricter all the time, not great for me as I have a history of eating disorders. This way I feel I am eating well but enjoying food still without becoming too obsessive.

I don't think its too restrictive, its just a starting point. No one (in my opinion) believes paleo is the end all be all diet for every human on the planet. I certainly do not. People are different and different things work for them. Some people thrive on dairy others do not. Some people thrive on low carb others feel like they are dying on it. Some people can't eat fruit without binging others have no issues with it.

Everyone is different and that is why self experimentation (n=1) is part of Paleo. Paleo is a starting point for those who need it but it is not a set of unbreakable laws nor is it perfect.

I'm totally grain, legume, and dairy free with rare treats of gluten-free cookies made with tapioca and rice flours, dark chocolate, tamari, and alcohol (in small doses). I don't drink coffee, but a few times a week I'll have tea or kombucha.

I am not low-carb: I have about 100-150 g carbs per day, in the form of root veggies and fruit, depending on the season. In fact, I try to eat as seasonally as possible, except I regularly eat bananas for convenience.

I'm only this strict because that's what my body needs. I hope some day to add back fermented or fresh dairy, but that's not in the cards for now. I tried adding back rice and corn at one point, and I can tolerate a bit of rice and certified gluten-free and nixtamalized corn (shared mills lead to too much cross-contamination for me), but I don't feel good when I eat them, so I only eat them very rarely.

I like that many of the people in this community use the strict guidelines as a starting point, and then experiment and expand as fits their individual needs. It keeps things sane.

I guess I would put myself on the stricter end of the Paleo spectrum.

A majority of my calories come from meat or seafood. Then fats (coconut oil, butter, olive oil). Then veggies (including starchy veggies). Then nuts a few times a week. Sometimes I'll eat dairy because I know I tolerate it. Very rarely do I eat fruits; although, it being almost summertime, I'm tempted to buy some mangoes.

I hardly cheat. I only go out to eat at restaurants two or three times a month and even then I will stick to the most Paleo-friendly entrees available. I do frequent bars and will enjoy a glass of vodka tonic or a shot of tequila or two (or three).

I am considering adding back white rice into my diet partly because I'm Asian and rice is always there. Taunting me.

I'm VLC at less than 25 grams a day. I do have heavy cream in my coffee, but no other dairy. I don't eat legumes or wheat. I see myself staying as VLC as I am until I lose some weight. Then I intend to add some yams. Make of it what you will. I think of myself as 80/20 since I tend to follow the primal branch of the family.

I flip flop. It is mostly due to social factors. I enjoy the diet but not the isolation that comes with sticking with it strictly.

Im paleo plus I.F 6days a week. Monday I eat whatever I want.

No grains, no legumes, no casein. In the summer time I get tempted to do smoothies with whey protein because I don't want to heat up the house, and butter is great, but casein seems to be the big bad thing in milk. I have no interest in wheat. I still like rice, but I've only had it occasionally. People laugh when I tell them rice is like a drug to me. I think I'm still pretty strict. I'm happy to go to a social event and just not eat. Probably drives some people nuts, but I don't see much up side on conformity.

It seems that there's less and less Paleo people around.

I challenge the premise of the question. I don't think enough data is available to support this assertion, since the only relevant data (here on PH, anyway) I can think of are the posts to PH, which represent only a self-selected group of people and not necessarily a representative sample of eaters in the community.

I could just as easily claim there are seems to be more and more paleo people around, since more people know about it.

Paleo nazis would not be happy with me. Even though I eat lots of protein and I'm not afraid of fat, I eat high carb, including legumes and some sprouted grains. And I don't stress about sugar too much.

I'm a foodie first. And I'm european. Food is part of my culture and very important to me. Going to a restaurant is a social event where my friends and I enjoy good food and wine and talk and laugh until it's almost midnight.

So, yes, I'm not strictly so-called "paleo". I was for a while and it was very useful for figuring out to what kind of foods I react. But I really appreciate stress-free evenings and artisan foods. I couldn't live without those aspects in my life. There is no fast food, no crap food, no processed foods though. Foods like sweetbread, foie gras and veal tongue: oh yes please. But they might come with a piece of sourdough bread. You better cover your eyes!

Are there really all that many people on here recommending WAPF-grains? It seems to me more that the few odd questions stand out, and that a lot of WAPF eaters end up paleo and/or have a sense of camaraderie with the paleo folks.

I consider my diet mostly paleo. I do eat aged cheddar though, and use coconut oil and butter for cooking, and small amounts of glucose for sweetner. I certainly dont eat any grains, only seeds I have are occasional nuts, and my starch/carb intake is probably lower than an actual hunter gatherer (for my own health reasons).

So not entirely paleo, but I doubt many people were ever strictly 100% paleo. Even if they were, in the pop sense, its unlikely there nutritional intake was all that comparable to paleo eaters. And I am not trying to eat for some "asthetic" of being natural, I am trying to eat optimal foods for my body, which happen to be largely grounded in evolution..

To see what I mean - check this article out:

http://www.answers.com/topic/stone-age-nutrition-the-original-human-diet

What I try and emulate most about paleo eating is minimal anti-nutrient foods such as no grains, low sugar fruits and other aspects of wild nutrition, rather than merely imitating the food groups in the broad simple sense.

A good example is farmed beef. Farmed beef, grass-fed or not, is high in saturated fat, low in other fats compared to wild animals. Wild land animals have about 1/3 sat fat, 1/3 mono, 1/3 poly. Its a nice even spread...

Imitating that profile, and the profile of fruit when I eat it (low sugar, higher anti-oxidants and vitamins), and if I ever eat starchy carbs, not that I have been, that too (lower starch root veges versus potatoes etc) - so that my diet is roughly nutrionally like paleo eating.

Particularly when it comes to fats. Fats are supposed to make up a majority of our caloric intake, but if that fat has little resemblance to out anscestors fats then we are missing the boat. Merely adding rendered animal fats, butter, coconut oil etc, isnt going to end up with a similar profile unless we are using wild game animal fats...

Merely eating modern whole foods, as if it was wild whole foods doesnt really end up with anything like the same nutritional profile, not just in terms of how farm animals are fed and omega balances, but also vitamin intake, sugar levels, and sat/mono/poly proportions. Not to mention modern stuff like seperated fats and oils...

Id eat 100% game and wild caught fish, wild picked berries, nuts, sprouts, greens and roots, roasted over a fire, but thats not really viable or practical for me! (plus I dont live next to a wild forest)... so I try and balance my fat proportions instead and other aspects instead. Its a balancing act for sure, given the differences.

From what ive been reading on research on what we ate during that era, wild foods versus modern foods, emulating the exact balance of macro and micro nutrients is alot trickier than merely eating more meat and less carbs and avoiding table sugar and processed foods....Mostly because 95% of modern veg, fruit and farmed meat are all nutrionally different from their wild counterparts. Short of still eating 100% wild caught foods, its difficult emulating those balances

(see article linked above for the sort of details I am refering to)

my 2c...

TLDR - is merely eating roughly similar foods, but modernised whole foods rather than wild caught or found food really paleo anyway? It should not be about an asthetic IMO, being paleo, or being some kind of romantic food idealist, but rather getting a similar macro and micro nutrient intake and not eating foods which we have less time to adapt too (like grains)..

I'm still 100% paleo, yes occasionally I cheat, but not much, and its usually, dark chocolate, raw honey, and fruit...

I eat Paleo about 90% of the time. I do have a little heavy cream in my coffee and a daily packet of Sweet N Low seems to be something I can't quite give up. I do not eat grains, cheese, potatoes, rice, etc.

I was WAPF before I was paleo, and there's no way I'll ever go back to eating that much starch, because starch is the one thing I need to avoid. So, I eat fruit, veggies, meat, and dairy (cream, butter, yogurt, and limited amounts of cheese.)

I find it very easy to include the right things and eat good meals at home and work. I kind of suck at omitting the wrong things, mainly because my willpower to say no is remarkably low. To be at a cocktail reception and ignore the little finger foods they bring by, not a skill I have learned as of this point in life.

Staying pretty strictly Whole30 style Paleo is the only way I can avoid severe migraines and insomnia. I experimented with many different diets before figuring this out including WAPF. Maybe once a month I'll have some corn tortillas or rice noodle. The corn tortillas don't bother me if it stays at once a month, more than that and ouch! The rice noodles bother me after only one meal but sometimes I just gotta have proper Pho. Made the mistake of having coconut milk ice-cream a while back. The closest I've been to a migraine since I switched my diet almost a year ago. Terrifying.

I'm GAPSing right now, since regular paleo (which, admittedly, I was somewhat lax about) hadn't helped my acne (though the other benefits were great!) I haven't added beans, so I'm actually still pretty close to a sort of starch-free paleo framework, with "cheats" (treats? for my own sanity, I try not to think of them as cheats) that include, you know, the nut-flour-based honey-sweetened baked goods I have a weakness for and, thankfully, are expensive and time consuming so I don't have them too often.

Previously, I was mostly paleo but would have gluten-free replacements occasionally, because cake/cookies are still delicious to me and never let me down, damn it. The GF snacks are obviously out now, though. Post-GAPS I'll probably continue focusing on paleo/primal type foods, or maybe something WAPF-ish (if I can do a couple vegetarian meals every week and save money that way, great. Meat is my favorite forever, but it's expensive) for the majority of what I eat, but since I want to travel I'm kind of hoping that, while I'll still avoid it when possible, occasional gluten will no longer send me spiraling through a mind fog and into a depression. Beforehand I was convinced gluten was probably horrible for everyone, but GAPS kind of gave me the mindset that a healing diet should improve tolerance of foods, not keep it the same and definitely not create more avoidance. A little flexibility within a whole-foods framework doesn't hurt in the social department.