Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

Question

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It's time to change up my routine for "lifting heavy things." I'm getting bored with it and not seeing much in the way of gains anymore. I've seen Stronglifts 5x5 recommended here, so I am looking into it. I understand it involves alternating between these two workouts:

Squat
Bench
Barbell row

And:

Squat
Overhead press
Deadlift

A couple things don't make sense to me:

I understand that bench works triceps, and barbell row (or weighted pull up) works biceps, so isolation exercises aren't necessary for those muscles. But, what about calves and abdominals (for example). Which of the above exercises work them?
How is doing squats at every workout not overtraining? For those who follow this routine, do you find your quads really have time to fully recover between workouts?

edited Jun 8 at 19:08

tdgor
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asked Jun 8 at 18:22

Mike T
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Personally, I could only do this routine 2x per week. But that's me. The beauty of squats every time is that it makes your arms grow faster! Stay with me here. Working the big muscles means a much bigger GH release - which affects the arms big time. At least that has been my experience. – Dave S. Jun 8 at 18:41

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If you know of SL 5x5 then you should know of Starting Strength. I am assuming you got this workout from a forum focused on bodybuilding/strength training. The reason these programs are recommended for beginners is because they work. You need to lay a solid foundation of strength before you can specialize in other areas. This is around > 300# up to 400# squat which these programs will give an average male (limits of linear progression). You are not unique. Your body's physiology is no different than anyone else's. Stop questioning and start lifting. :) – Mark Jun 9 at 6:27

mrmagee · Accepted Answer · 2012-06-08 18:28:31Z UTC

It really depends on where you're starting from.

Primary movers for the bench is obviously your pecs, secondary is tricep. Primary for barbell row is your back, secondary is bicep.

The Stronglifts 5x5 is not primarily concerned with being a bodybuilding routine. It is a functional routine used for developing strength by focusing on big movements. If you're worried about increasing your calf size, you'll want to do isolation work on your calves. Ditto your abs, though it's been my experience that very few people actually need to do ab work (and squats are definitely a strongly "core" exercise for your abs/quads/hamstrings/back...basically everything in your body).

If you're doing 5x5, you aren't hitting your 1RM. 25 reps of a reasonable weight (such that it's tough, but not failure) won't lead to overtraining. Your legs will be sore for the first couple weeks, but you'll adapt. If you find your lifts getting worse, or experience other overtraining symptoms, then address it. I find that people generally worry about overtraining when it's generally unnecessary to do so.

Rob · Answer 2 · 2012-06-08 20:40:28Z UTC

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There are conflicting opinions on squats.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/squat-versus-leg-press-for-big-legs.html

http://www.thedreamlounge.net/barbell-squat-worst-exercise/

http://criticalmas.com/2012/06/lower-risk-alternatives-to-the-barbell-back-squat/

answered Jun 8 at 20:40

Rob
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	The 3rd like cites the 2nd as the source of his argument. The second link (Mr 'Dream'Johnson's) is laughably unscientific/flawed. He defends it this way: "The laws of logic dictate that I do not actually need to back up my claims — you have to back up yours (the assertion that a barbell squat is safe)"..."While I realize that you will...cite [a list of] studies and statistical research that support your positive claim, please try to grasp the idea that studies do not dictate reality." – Caveman Kyle Jun 8 at 20:53
	So basically he says that research and studies are invalid proof, and that without those, you cannot disprove him, ergo, he is right by default. – Caveman Kyle Jun 8 at 20:55
	A strength training program that does not include squats and deadlifts for a normal (read non-injured) human being is a joke. – Mark Jun 9 at 6:22

Chris · Answer 3 · 2012-06-08 19:27:05Z UTC

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On your second question: one thing I found that worked for both me and my husband regarding squats and sore quads was either 1) stalling on the weight. Instead of upping 5# every workout, aim for 5# every week, whether you're doing 2 workouts or 4 workouts each week. 2) reducing to 3x5 once you're getting up near previous maxes.

And regardless of the schedule that the program provides, never ever hesitate to take a couple days off if you need it. Work through the DOMs in the first few weeks, but don't be a moron.

answered Jun 8 at 19:27

Chris
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	I'll definitely try to not be a moron. I've heard before if a particular muscle is still sore from previous workout, you should delay working it again until the soreness goes away. Sounds like you're saying that's not correct? I.e., just work through the DOMs instead? – Mike T Jun 9 at 16:03
	As long as it's not acute pain and you're sure it is just soreness, go for it. If you wait until you're never sore to workout, either your workouts aren't worth it (aka you're not getting sore, not building muscle), or you'll hardly ever workout! That being said, always be aware of the chronic soreness or pain... that nagging "knee" thing or "shoulder" twinge might not be DOMs, it could be a sign of an actual problem that should be addressed. – Chris Jun 10 at 23:43

sam_acw · Answer 4 · 2012-06-08 18:48:18Z UTC

I'm in my second week. Remember the rows aren't just arms - it's back and legs for stability. It's the same with the press; it works your core muscles. If you're worried about recruiting your whole body try to read something by Pavel Tsatsoline about tension doing exercises. Even if you're following stronglifts I recommend the book "Starting Strength" by Mark Rippetoe. It's a little dense but it's got all the info you need to start barbell training.

Caveman Kyle · Answer 5 · 2012-06-08 18:38:37Z UTC

I did SL for a solid 6-7 months and set personal bests in every lift. While I believe I have been fitter before, I've never been that strong.

Every lift you do is compound, so there is no need for isolation work. You do not need to target your abs because the simple act of stabilizing yourself with weight above your head (OHP) or stabilizing the torso while bent over (rows) will take care of it for you. Also Deadlifts, Squats, and bench use massive amounts of core (when done correctly).

The quads are BIG muscle systems, and the 5lb increment is small enough that you will not over train. I was doubtful too, at first, but I went from 185lb squats to 275lbs and only stalled a couple of times at the end (and on those occasions I just squatted the previous weight and went up 5lbs on the next work out).

I stopped because I was having chronic shoulder pain issues (I now suspect my rotator cuff was too weak) and I was also starting to get a little knee pain. That and I just ran out of hours in the day to keep lifting (I was getting married, it was my last semester of college, and I was in the middle of a move). Remember that muscle grows faster than ligaments, and there is a difference between DOMs and injury.

Bill1102inf · Answer 6 · 2012-06-08 18:36:08Z UTC

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A guy that can hang 45lbs, or 100lbs for that matter off his waist and do pull ups/chin ups is going to have some serious biceps without ever doing a curl, ever.

answered Jun 8 at 18:36

Bill1102inf
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	Yes, agree. It's clear that separate exercises aren't necessary for biceps/triceps. I was asking more about about other muscles such as abdominals and calves. – Mike T Jun 9 at 16:02
	I prefer just to let go with one arm and do the pullup – RaiseFitness Jul 25 at 15:33

trjones · Answer 7 · 2012-06-08 18:27:01Z UTC

Pretty much any barbell exercise you do standing up will work the abdominals. If you do squats properly, they will work almost your entire body.

I just got the Starting Strength book, which is the basis of the StrongLifts program. I'd recommend getting it. It's an amazing reference for powerlifting that will answer just about any question you have on the subject.

Stronglifts 5x5 questions

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