Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

Question

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I hate to ask another acne question, but I'm at the end of my rope! So I have what one would think is hormonal adult acne- I'm 24, have had moderate (to severe?) acne on my jawline and chin for...I can't even remember how long. About 9 months. I'm fairly certain that going Paleo 7 months ago worsened it.

I went off birth control about that same time, and got an IUD instead, but really my body ought to have adjusted by now, this is ridiculous. And I just went and got my hormones tested, and I'm apparently ship-shape.

Background: I have Hashimoto's, but its pretty under control- am on no medications, am quite closely adherent to the autoimmune version of Paleo- some fruit, very few nuts, some chocolate. No egg whites and almost no nightshades. Vitamin A and Omega-3 supplements make no difference, nor does vitamin D, B vitamins- a couple other things, supplement-wise, I've tried but have not found them effective after a couple of days and have quickly stopped, such as coconut oil, maca, evening primrose oil, jojoba oil, and liver support-thingies. My sleep and stress are fine, as is, surely, my Omega 3/6 ratio. Probiotics, even really good ones, and fermented foods have been tried.

I got nothin'. I presently take a multimineral with boron, vitamin D, vitamin C, and a probiotic. Sometimes K2. I just cannot imagine what's wrong with me! Thanks for any and all help!

UPDATE: So, my acne is almost entirely gone- I'm not tooootally sure why, but it seems to be for embarrassingly simple/mostly conventional reasons. I'm eating VLC, sleeping more than I ever have in my life (at least 8 hours on the reg), and washing my face more. I had been not washing it much in the name of Paleo/naturalism, and indeed could not tell that it had gotten any worse or better since I stopped washing it, but nonetheless since I started washing it twice a day its gotten significantly better.

I thought, maybe whatever was causing my acne healed itself, and now that I began washing my face again, it finally revealed the healing-ness. I still have a couple of imperfections, but nothing major.

edited Jul 16 at 5:10

asked Jun 10 2012 at 14:52

Celine
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When you say vitamin A did nothing, what kind of vitamin A are you talking about? How much carbs are you eating? – Korion Jun 10 2012 at 15:56

Does your IUD have hormones? – Crowlover Jun 10 2012 at 17:17

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If you're taking a Vit A supplement, make sure it's not beta carotene. And take a low dose for extended periods of time (months) as opposed to megadosing for a few weeks. Liver is a better source of Vit A than supplements. – Roth Jun 10 2012 at 17:38

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I don't have any answer for you -- just wanted to say that I'm sorry 7 months of strict paleo hasn't helped you. I haven't been strict paleo for that long yet but it has also totally failed to make a difference in my skin. I hope you find some relief soon. – Violet9 Jun 10 2012 at 17:44

By the way Celine things that really really really helped clear up the acne on my chin (only acne that didn't want to go away on paleo) are vitamin D, calcium and a higher sugar intake. Much higher. Studies show that fructose protects against vitamin D deficiency in rats : ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1221903 – Korion Jun 10 2012 at 20:59

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Roth · Answer 1 · 2012-06-10 15:12:22Z UTC

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All acne is hormonal.

IUDs can cause issues as well. It's going to take more than a few months to completely fix health issues that took YEARS to develop. Do you eat liver regularly? How much fat are you consuming? Have you taken a highly bioavailable form of zinc (picolinate or methionine-bound zinc?) Do you avoid dairy? Dairy has pretty much been shown to cause acne in many people - even "good" dairy.

answered Jun 10 2012 at 15:12

Roth
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Crowlover, you don't understand how hormones (or acne formation for that matter) work evidently. All acne is hormonal because it's the hormones that even allow the formation of acne. I've dealt with acne for years and I assure you, all acne is hormonal. And no, acne isn't an issue of "oxidative stress." That might be a contributing factor, but it's not the major contributing factor or even a significant one. – Roth Jun 10 2012 at 17:32

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1. All acne is hormonal. 2. All acne is genetic. 3. All acne is inflammatory in nature. 4. All acne indicates improper/rushed keratinization. If those 4 things don't apply to your "acne" you don't have acne - you have folliculitis or some other skin issue which can be worsened by "mechanical" means such as physical irritation from shaving or rubbing skin. – Roth Jun 10 2012 at 17:37

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I think it is too simplistic to say that all acne is hormonal. There is a hormonal component, sure, but it's much more complicated than that. – Violet9 Jun 10 2012 at 17:40

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Also it's somewhat meaningless to say that "all acne is genetic." I've known people who had beautiful perfect skin for a long time only to see it suddenly erupt in response to a change in lifestyle or even a period of emotional stress. Genes definitely predispose one to acne, but my guess is that acne could be induced in most people given the right conditions (stress, bad food, overly drying soap, comodogenic topicals, SIBO, etc.) – Violet9 Jun 10 2012 at 17:43

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Might be worth ordering in some zinc picolinate, in that case. – Celine Jun 10 2012 at 21:43

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Crowlover · Answer 2 · 2012-06-10 18:07:59Z UTC

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My acne greatly improved with diet and also when I started a high dose antoxidant therapy protocol for my Hashimotos. At the root of both of these issues (Hashi's and acne) is oxidative stress. What worked for me was a combination of antioxidants in what is considered by many-"high" doses including: Uquinol (NOW Foods, 200mg caps); R-Lipoic Acid (Geronova Research is the best for R-La); EGCG; Lycopene; and a combination of spices by Oregon Wild Harvest (Cloves, Cinnamon, Turmeric); and Astaxanthin.

I am very curious about your Hashi's and that its "pretty under control". How do you know that? Do you get your Tpo tested often, or do you know by your symptoms? What is your Tpo level? I was able to get mine down from 345 into the "negative" range (<35) but diet alone didnt do it for me. Took a lot of supplements in addition to healing my leaky gut and cleaning up my diet.

Also, does sun help it? I personally would be in the sun a bit each day if possible and without sunscreen. Good luck to you.

edited Jun 10 2012 at 18:07

answered Jun 10 2012 at 17:16

Crowlover
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Ooooh, fellow Hashimoto's person! Its a pleasure! I'm not gonna lie, I only found out what oxidative stress is through Google just now. Interesting, I may have to check this out when I go to America next! You go to a naturopath? Sun doesn't seem to make a difference, very unfortunately. – Celine Jun 10 2012 at 21:46

I don't get my Tpo tested ever, so I perhaps don't know. But I did get my thyroid checked when I got my hormonal test done, and I am not yet hypothyroid. I don't have too many certain Hashimoto's symptoms, though- I'm slenderish- 5 "7" and 140, and am not so low-energy that working out every day is a major issue. I get cold, and who knows, maybe my memory would be much better if I didn't have Hashimoto's, but all in all, its aight. – Celine Jun 10 2012 at 21:51

So I have no idea what my Tpo is, obviously! – Celine Jun 10 2012 at 21:51

Celine why do you say that you have Hashimoto's? How do you know this if you have not had your Thyroid perioxidase (Tpo) antibodies checked? Yes my primary care practitioners are an ND and my PhD level nutritionist. I also have an MD, but don't need her much at at. And yes, oxidative stress plays a role in very single inflammatory process/disease including acne. CoQ10 in the form of Ubiquinol and R-La might help you.. in addition of course to a clean diet (which you are already doing) – Crowlover Jun 10 2012 at 23:17

Crowlover, I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's a year and a half or two ago, so I'm just assuming I haven't recovered. Its not really something that's cured, ever, it seems- just comes and goes. – Celine Jun 11 2012 at 7:10

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Clayton · Answer 3 · 2012-06-10 18:16:39Z UTC

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Do you consume any dairy? That was culprit for me. I struggled with acne since I was a teenager and it's recently gotten worse due to a lot of stress I'm under. Also look into the kind of make up you're wearing. Mine was making my face breakout so I switched to Bare Essentials which only sits on your skin, doesn't clog your pores. I saw major improvements in that. My face will break out when my N 3: N 6 is off (like consuming too many eggs, chicken, fruits or oils without eating enough grass fed meat to balance it out) and my face is notorious for breaking out when it's that time of the month. Keep your towels and pillow cases clean and keep your chin up. It did take a while for my face to see the kind of improvement it did.

answered Jun 10 2012 at 18:16

Clayton
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	I used to use BareEscentuals, until I found the Skin Deep® Cosmetics Database (Environmental Working Group) website.They rates toxicity and safety of all body products and cosmetics. www.ewg.org/skindeep It a fabulous website and especially for anyone with skin problems. I switched to Rejuva Minerals products. Great stuff. I like better than Bare Escentuals or Jane Iredale. – Crowlover Jun 10 2012 at 18:25
	is it any cheaper than Bare? LOL – Clayton Jun 10 2012 at 19:44
	well No and Yes! You use less since you don't have to do all that "swirling, tapping and buffing" lol – Crowlover Jun 10 2012 at 19:54
	Thanks Clayton! So, hold on, you notice that consuming a lot of oil makes you break out? My thought on the makeup is that if topical acne medication/oils, whatever, make no difference, it must be an internal thing rather than makeup or anything else. Am I wrong do you think? – Celine Jun 10 2012 at 21:54
	Negative with the dairy, God I only wish. – Celine Jun 10 2012 at 21:55

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Crowlover · Answer 4 · 2012-06-11 00:58:23Z UTC

This Question and answer from March might be helpful to you Celine!:

What Tests for acne, candida, and other issues? - PaleoHacks.com http://paleohacks.com/questions/106734/what-tests-for-acne-candida-and-other-issues#ixzz1xRS0bZfm Hello, i am a biochemist @ Fordham University in NYC and would like to respond to you're question.

--Hidden deep within Casanova's 16 volumes of memoirs is a short but powerful story. A girl of a well established family of the court needed help clearing her cystic acne. Casanova offers her incredibly clairvoyant advice which I have transposed into a simple acronym to help folks remember--BAD.

B-burdock root

A-vitamin A

D- vitamin D and no Dairy

(there is more to the answer)

Lyndsie · Answer 5 · 2012-06-11 01:26:29Z UTC

My copper IUD triggered acne in me when I had never had it before. I fought it out for over two years, and then just couldn't take it anymore and had it removed. (other reasons on top of the acne. It added 4 extra days to my period, I had cramps when I had never had them before, etc. etc.)

Dairy now causes my occasional breakout when I do indulge in something that contains it, but otherwise i'm pretty blemish free. I am currently on hormonal BC, but I am getting my tubes tied this coming friday, so we will see how being off the BC affects my skin.

kris · Answer 6 · 2012-06-11 02:04:02Z UTC

Hi Celine- I have struggled with mild acne for years now- it is the kind where it isn't out of control but there is never a time that I don't have a zit on my face and they all leave red marks that last for ages.

I tried EVERYTHING I could think of aside from prescriptions-And I FINALLY found a routine that has literally transformed my skin- I wash my face twice a day using Clarisonic's Refreshing Gel Cleanser and use the Mia Face Brush http://www.clarisonic.com/?gclid=COXN48aKxbACFQ5rhwodmxlvng After cleansing I use Bare Escentuals Glow Pads and Mychelle pumpkin renew cream. My skin literally glows now and I haven't broken out in two months straight, not once, for the first time in years!

This would be an expensive routine to get started, but all I know is I've tried every face mask, every cleanser, every zit cream (organic and chemical), supplements, total body cleanses, no-sugar, gluten-free, dairy-free (paleo) with pretty much NO changes in my skin. Everyone is different but the Clarisonic Mia along with the purifying face wash has completely changed my skin. I look in the mirror and don't recognize myself! So it may work for you...Also, I think taking fish oil, turmeric, EPO, probiotics, and ginger are always helpful since they are anti-inflammatory and nourish the skin, I still take those all daily.

Seppo · Answer 7 · 2012-06-11 06:22:05Z UTC

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It can take quite a while for a body to readjust after BC pills. I've read accounts for it taking more than a year.

All acne is hormonal to a degree. Acne-prone skin is far more sensitive to androgen hormones. Even in what's considered normal levels they cause excess sebum production, skin cell growth and overactivation of the immune system in the skin. Excessive sebum is prone to oxidation that then triggers the acne formation process.

So far there's nothing we can do to 'cure' the genetic component of acne. But you can mititgate the damage with topical 5-alpha reductase inhibitors. Green tea happens to be one. Google can tell you also others.

Diet has nothing to do to that component of acne. While diet helps in reducing hormones and systemic inflammation it's not enough for some people. They need to treat acne topically also.

What are you doing topically?

In your case Hajimoto's can make it harder to get clear. It's possible it inflammation and depleted antioxidant reserves. Have you had your inflammation levels checked?

answered Jun 11 2012 at 6:22

Seppo
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Seppo, thanks so much, this is informative- I've never had my inflammation levels checked, how do I do that? I'm doing pretty much all I can to be anti-inflammatory, though, so I don't know what more I could do in any case! Green tea applied topically doesn't seem to do much, but my Google of topical 5-alpha reductase inhibitors is not productive for some reason. Topically, I use tea tree oil to remove makeup and wash, and apply some Clinique pigment-evening serum, and a Proactiv product generally. – Celine Jun 11 2012 at 7:05

Oh, and I have taken, antioxidant-wise, turmeric supplements and milkthistle before, but both to no great effect. Does that mean my issue is NOT oxidation, or is that an idiotic conclusion? – Celine Jun 11 2012 at 7:14

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You should talk to a doctor or some other health practitioner about getting inflammation levels checked. To my knowledge you can check for inflammatory markers, such as C reactive proteins (CRP) and cytokines, but you can get much better info from a doctor. To be continued... – Seppo Jun 11 2012 at 7:39

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As to other 5-alpha reductase inhibitors, saw palmetto, gamma linoleic acid (such as in evening primrose oil) and zinc are some examples. Regardless of the details, acne comes down to inflammation in the skin. This inflammation can be external (such as sunlight, air pollution, or using too harsh chemicals on your face) or internal (such as from gut problems, autoimmune diseases, eating foods you are allergic, etc).... – Seppo Jun 11 2012 at 7:40

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Good to hear that. 3 Days back I got my hands on a review paper on oxidative damage as a cause and antioxidants as treatment options for acne. Thought the studies are still preliminary, the results are very promising. I wrote a detailed post about the topic here: acneeinstein.com/inflammation-antioxidants-acne Maybe that helps you also. – Seppo Jun 14 2012 at 4:19

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Is hormonally-patterned acne always hormonal?

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