Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

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A study conducted found a correlation between the adaptation of a vegetarian diet and an elevated risk of mental illness (neuroticism, major depression, OCD, phobias, etc) in comparison to a matched non-vegetarian group which took socio-economic factors into account (so that it wasn't just elite, financially well-off vegetarians vs. trailer trash junk food eaters). One of the possible reasons listed for the high-rate of depression and social anxiety was how vegetarians negatively define themselves by what they don't eat (ie, meat).

What would they find if they polled the Paleo community?

Vegetarian diet and mental disorders: results from a representative community survey

flag	asked Jun 11 at 15:17 Nemesis 11.4k●1●9●40

Haven't looked at the study but wondering -- Were the vegetarians eating a healthy diet? Were they eating lots of junk? In other words, was the lack of animal protein and animal fats the problem or did they eat crap? – Sol Jun 11 at 17:03

The study offered a large checklist of foods by which they would select "Do not eat at all", "Eat monthly", "Eat weekly", "Eat daily", "Eat several times a day". So I'm assuming that they people conducting the study would have a good idea of what the participants ate on a regular basis. – Nemesis Jun 11 at 17:10

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Fine, how does "low-income junk food eaters" sound? – Nemesis Jun 11 at 17:35

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Also, as someone who WAS trailer trash from late-2000 to April 2004, I can tell you that people who live in trailer parks are not there because they think it's an awesome place to live. And their diets tend to be some of the worst ever. My trailer had no a/c, had holes in the floors from bathroom leaks, termites and roaches. My bike was stolen from my driveway in broad daylight. So having been there and done that I'm just calling it what it is (what you think is "offensive"). – Nemesis Jun 11 at 17:46

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From 1990 to 1999 my husband was a Marine and we ate a LOT of Hamburger Helper and tons of garbage food that they sell for cheap at the Commissary. I would call my younger self trailer trash though we didn't live in a trailer - it is what it is and we evolve, hopefully. I don't think he was trying to be rude or offensive imo – HeatherC Jun 11 at 19:33

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VandyGear03 · Answer 1 · 2012-06-11 16:58:40Z UTC

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My n=1 experience is that vegetarianism greatly contributed to 10 years of depression and anti-depressants. Once I began eating a Paleo diet, I was able to eliminate the drugs for the first time in my adult life. I wish I had known that I might be doing myself such a disservice by trying to eat "responsibly."

answered Jun 11 at 16:58

VandyGear03
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From what I've seen on PH and across the web, your experience is not uncommon. Perhaps by isolating themselves within their own community, via herd-think, vegetarians reinforce their neurotic tendencies and are guilted into sticking with the diet. – Nemesis Jun 11 at 17:22

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My experience is similar. I had no community to belong to as a vegetarian, nor did I form an identity around it. Lots of depression whenever my animal fat intake has been low, and it was the worst when I was eating a cleaner vegetarian diet than when I ate a junky one. I didn't know I was capable of such a rosy outlook on life until I started eating saturated animal fat abundantly. – Diane Jun 11 at 17:41

I don't know where that vegetarian community would have come from, but I lived in rural Illinois and South Texas...I didn't even know any other vegetarians. Meat just didn't seem like food anymore after almost 17 years, so it was really an effort to start eating meat again. – VandyGear03 Jun 11 at 18:54

Korion · Answer 2 · 2012-06-11 17:43:13Z UTC

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There's nothing wrong with vegetarianism, as long as you don't replace meat with tofu or make other silly choices. I'm practically vegetarian right now, apart from the occasional oysters and liver.

I think the problem here is the lack of fat-soluble vitamins.

answered Jun 11 at 17:43

Korion
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Hi, green dino :)How can you be a vegetarian if you eat dairy and gelatin? I thought you were RayPeatarian and his diet is not even close to vegetarian... I thought he was against eating vegetables unless it is a well-cooked potato. Actually, Korion, I would love to know what you eat - it is like a mystery to me... – VB Jun 11 at 20:05

Hi flower :P Dairy is vegetarian, VB, eggs too. Most of my calories just come from milk, orange juice, fruits, sugar, coffee, coconut oil, and the occasional liver and oysters (and gelatin if I make candy, I used to put gelatin in water but I got bored with it). If I find a tasty candy recipe I'll be eating gelatin like crazy again, but last time I made some it tasted like the candy my grandmother used to give me, pretty weird. – Korion Jun 11 at 20:18

Those flowers are called lilacs, BTW :) Does not look like you are eating much. I thought the word VEGETArian came from VEGETables and the only vegetable you eat is... fruit? You are a FRUITarina then. – VB Jun 11 at 20:23

Okay I don't know flower names, should've asked my mother :D, vegetarians just don't eat animals themselves, but they do eat animal products. I don't eat veggies yes, don't really cook anymore except for liver. – Korion Jun 11 at 20:55

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They are boiled and sometimes I buy expensive oysters from france that are raw, but the boiled ones taste better (and it's less work cuz there are out of the shells already). I did that recipe, but it tasted a bit weird. Maybe I need more sugar :), but I find sugar pretty boring. I eat watermelons, pawpaws, cherries and orange juice. Sometimes pineapple. – Korion Jun 12 at 8:32

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Roth · Answer 3 · 2012-06-11 17:39:42Z UTC

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Vegetarianism (and by extension veganism) has been linked time and time again with eating disorders such as Anorexia Nervosa/Bulimia/EDNOS.

Many young men and women who develop eating disorders often start out as vegetarians and severely restrict their fat intake.

answered Jun 11 at 17:39

Roth
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Amen! And other things as well... – VB Jun 12 at 7:53

Ben · Answer 4 · 2012-06-11 21:34:30Z UTC

I have been vegetarian for about 5 years before I got majors health complaints, which eventually resulted in serious disease and I believe my diet to be the most important factor contributing to it. I believe that there are two main reasons why a purely vegetarian diet can be unhealthy:

Long-term starvation: lack of nutrients that are only or mostly found in animal products
High in carbohydrates, low in protein, low in fat: vegetarians usually eat high carbohydrate diets, with lots of grains/grainy products and very little protein and fat. The protein they eat often comes from products like seitan (almost pure gluten... poison!), fat is nearly always absent.

Is vegetarianism always bad? I don't think so. Is it hard to live healthily in the long-term on a vegetarian diet? Most definitely. The problem is most of the issues only occur after having been vegetarian for a very long time, while (a) the damage has already been done and (b) most people don't associate their complaints with the diet.

As for the mental illness, I believe it is known that high-carbohydrate diets can contribute to mental illnesses, and that low-carbohydrate diets can contribute to relieving symptoms associated with mental illness (that's the point of the GAPS-diet).

alligator · Answer 5 · 2012-09-06 14:40:44Z UTC

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Does that mean dairy consumption is correlated with higher incidence of mental illness? Shouldn't it, considering we're talking about vegetarians and not vegans?

answered Sep 6 at 14:40

alligator
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Becca · Answer 6 · 2012-09-08 02:11:58Z UTC

A while after becoming vegetarian my anxiety and depression increased. It's that that i didnt have it before but the diet made it worse, to the point where i became agoraphobic and it brought out other phobias as well. Once i went back to animal meat the symtoms decreased but did not totally go away. My opinion would be that if you are predisposed to mental illness a vegitarian diet can manifest symptoms. I think it's partially due to surgar highs and lows from eating a high carb diet and vitamin deficienties.

VB · Answer 7 · 2012-06-14 06:10:48Z UTC

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Thanks for sharing! Next time I see a vegetarian or a vegan, I know what NOT TO SAY.

answered Jun 14 at 6:10

VB
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the paleo elephant · Answer 8 · 2012-09-07 19:15:28Z UTC

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Interesting discussion. I do think it's possible to be healthy as a vegetarian if you do eggs and/or full-fat dairy. And run like hell from soy.

answered Sep 7 at 19:15

the paleo elephant
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I agree! There's just no good reason to eliminate eggs or from a vegetarian diet unless you have an allergy. If ethics are a concern, either raise your own hens or buy eggs from a known source who treats them well. – Nemesis Sep 7 at 22:43

Timothy · Answer 9 · 2012-06-11 21:23:28Z UTC

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Not surprising at all. I suspect there is a decent correlation between paleo dieting and mental illness as well.

answered Jun 11 at 21:23

Timothy
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Orthorexia at the least. – Nemesis Jun 11 at 21:26

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Did you seriously register for Paleohacks just to post that, Timothy? You sound like a bitter veggie. – Roth Jun 11 at 21:48

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Mental illness? Nah. Self-righteousness? You bet! :) – Matt Jun 11 at 22:52

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My mom told me never to argue about two things: religion and politics. Now I know a third one! – VB Jun 14 at 6:09

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Every mental health claim is a comparison with the "norm". Compared to normal people, who would eat concrete, or cardboard if it tasted nice, we are fixated. – Jamie Jun 14 at 8:12

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Veganvspaleo · Answer 10 · 2012-09-06 14:10:02Z UTC

I think this could be a case of someone playing with statistics. I find it very likely that people with mantle illness choose to follow vegetarian, vegan, or even paleo diets and that it is not that the illness is caused by the diet. People who have eating disorders or history of being OCD would be much more likely to choose a controlled diet than the general population. I think this is a case of someone using the statistics to say what they want them to say.

Bailey · Answer 11 · 2012-09-08 17:05:49Z UTC

I agree with the thought that the personality type of the vegetarian is probably very neurotic in the first place. Nothing wrong with that, as I am one of them. Also, they (we) tend to be somewhat sensitive types to the suffering of farm animals and the like. However, there are way too many studies espousing the phytochemical, antioxidants, etc in the vegetarian diet, so I think it is good, but only that animal fats and fat soluble vitamins are missing.

Dana · Answer 12 · 2012-10-22 05:23:12Z UTC

There is logic behind the study, but not like you would think. Typically, we are raised as omnivores. As such, we learn to eat a relatively balanced diet from our predecessors. Many vegans and vegetarians came to it after this initially established diet indoctrination. As with anything new, there's a learning curve. If you simply cut out animal products, you're bound to leave out important nutrients. If you do your homework, however, complete and healthy nutrition can be achieved on a vegan or vegetarian diet. After all, the animals you get your nutrients from originally got them for vegetation...

I have just recently become very aware that many "mental illnesses" are really no more than nutrient deficiencies. When addressed, no more "mental illness" exists.

The key in any healthy diet, which the paleo diet seems to have simply put in simply terms, is to get away from processed and genetically modified foods. We need real, whole food to thrive, whatever the diet.

Study: Vegetarianism correlated with higher incidence of mental illness

12 Answers