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So I am very interested in this whole Paleo thing. I have been eating grain-free for a few weeks now and just started going sugar-free (sooooo hard) but i wont give up dairy for a while if ever...but anyways, basically what i am wondering that i can't find a straight answer for is that for all my life i have always heard its important to be careful with meat consumption because of cholesterol and high risk for heart disease...ya know, the whole bad rep that bacon and eggs and sausage have because they are always linked with heart attacks and very high cholesterol...I don't want to eat too much meat and get heart disease and clog my arteries with fat...so i was wondering why doesn't this happen with people on the paleo diet? is it the decrease of refined sugars that somehow makes meat less dangerous in this respect? or is it just that people who eat this way often counter much of their meat with good fibrous veggies? And also, does eating eating more foods like bacon eggs and sausage increase risk for heart disease or is that just because it is combined with a high sugar, high carb dietary lifestyle also???

Thank you so much, i hope that question wasn't too confusing...

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Don't worry. We see questions like this all the time. Almost all of the comments below are avenues you should look into. Your concerns will be alleviated. – Justin M. Jun 25 at 13:26

21 Answers

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http://www.sott.net/articles/show/242516-Heart-Surgeon-Speaks-Out-On-What-Really-Causes-Heart-Disease

above is a link to an article written by a well known cardiologist of 25 years, retracting the idea that heart disease is caused by fat and instead linking it inflammation in the body, which for most, grains are to blame.

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Yeah, inflammation. Another stalking horse. More conventional "challenge the system" stuff that doesn't fix CV problems. How does fretting about this reduce a person's waistline, lower their blood pressure or raise their HDL? WAY too much overthinking and discussion. on this issue. – thhq Jun 25 at 16:19
@Natty- Thanks for the link! I just got in an argument with my mother about Dr. Oz (he tells people to eat coconut oil, but to avoid high fat dairy- uh contradictory??) And she was arguing that somehow the saturated fat in coconut oil is less bad for you than the saturdated fat in milk and butter. I've emailed her the link you provided. – WayfinderAli Sep 2 at 22:40
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Go to Hulu and watch the movie Fat Head. It explains how the "Lipid Hypothesis" - the idea that heart disease is caused by saturated fat and cholesterol - is a total fraud. Or you can just Google Lipid Hypothesis and I'm sure you'll find some informative stuff.

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I thought Fat Head was created mainly to diss Supersize Me. The lipid hypothesis is a stalking horse. High blood lipids are still suspect, the question is more how they get oxidized and into plaque deposits. – thhq Jun 25 at 16:03
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A lot of Fat Head is about refuting Supersize Me, which is not really relevant. But a lot of the movie covers the history of the lipid hypothesis and the real mechanisms behind obesity, plaque deposits, etc. I personally learned a lot from some of the animations and commentary from doctors and scientists. In fact, there is a clip from the movie that I saw on YouTube that explains insulin's role in obesity and insulin resistance... seeing that clip motivated me to start eating paleo - I started the next day and never stopped. – AnarchyCaveman Jun 25 at 17:11
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Lies
All Diets are high fat diets

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Google:

  • Insufficient evidence of association is present for intake of … saturated or polyunsaturated fatty acids; total fat … meat, eggs and milk. Mente A, et al. A systematic review of the evidence supporting a causal link between dietary factors and coronary heart disease. Arch Intern Med. 2009 Apr 13;169(7):659-69.

  • There were no clear effects of dietary fat changes on total mortality or cardiovascular mortality. Hooper L, et al. Reduced or modified dietary fat for preventing cardiovascular disease. Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2011 Jul 6;(7):CD002137.

You will see we are in the midst of a paradigm shift in our thinking about fat. Best wishes to you!

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Hi Wowza. I remember you saying in a comment elsewhere that the Krauss meta-analyses had been pretty much destroyed and that the authors weren't even bothering to defend them anymore. I read the EU response and Scarborough et al and Krauss' reply, but I wondered if you could point me towards the rest of the debate? Thanks. – David Moss Jun 25 at 10:59
I wish there had been paradigm shifts in attitudes which would improve health: more activity and less overeating. Masterjohn, Fat Head et al are beating a dead horse, and are more or less a sideshow while very real problems go unresolved. – thhq Jun 25 at 16:07
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Also, here's a little clip from 'Fat Head' that addresses your concerns

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8WA5wcaHp4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

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Awesome clip! ... – CaveMan_Mike Jun 26 at 0:04
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The blood lipid most correlated with heart disease, and what they see in animal models of heart disease is something called small dense LDL.

Its a form of cholesterol, but a specific type. High carb diets and sugar increase small dense LDL. High fat diets decrease it, instead producing lots of safe light fluffy LDL.

There may be other factors, like stress, and general body inflammation(such as perhaps that from plant oils high in omega 6 and margerine), but a low fat, high carb diet because it raises triglycerides, lowers HDL and increases small dense LDL, it seems most likely it will increase heart disease.

http://chriskresser.com/i-have-high-cholesterol-and-i-dont-care

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U beat me to the kresser link! – CaveMan_Mike Jun 26 at 0:06
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If you like reading, buy the book "Ignore the Awkward: How the cholesterol myths are kept alive" by Uffe Ravnskov, or "The Cholesterol Delusion" by Ernest N. Curtis MD.

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Spend your time out walking. Then come home, get a cup of coffee and read Don Quixote or Ulysses. Time better spent. – thhq Jun 25 at 16:12
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^ Ulysses? - thats a crappy book. – Jamie Jun 26 at 4:05
And it's coverage of cholesterol was meager besides! – Anondson Jun 27 at 2:45
How many books have you read where the hero eats fried liver? – thhq Jul 3 at 10:23
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Ignore the Awkward is a good book.

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There's some concern about chlorine in drinking water causing heart disease. Also, it's known that a very high carb diet increases small dense LDL, which once oxidized, can lead to inflammation and heart disease. Also excess free calcium is known to cause issues.

It turns out that high fat foods, are high in saturated and mono-unsaturated fats, which are inert, and won't cause issues, while PUFAs, or trans-fats, once oxidized are problematic.

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There's some concern that sedentism and overeating cause heart disease, too. And also quite a bit of evidence....oh, forget it, this is much too conventional. Let's chase chlorides and lipid hypothesis down the e-trail for several hours instead.... – thhq Jun 25 at 16:14
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One theory is the lipid hypothesis which says that saturated fat is bad for you, and can be measured by the cholesterol in your blood. It is just a theory.

Another theory is that saturated fat in and of itself it not bad for you, in fact can be good for you by protecting your tissues and improving digestion and nutrition. The problem instead is inflammation, blood sugar, and the hormones that go along with them. This is also just a a theory.

We would all love to know the definitive answer for which is correct but we might not ever, since like most theories can't be definitively proven.

Given the number if people eating diets consistent with the lipid hypothesis who are extremely unhealthy, at a minimum one should think that there is something wrong with either the theory or how it is followed.

There are lots of people who abandoned that theory and adopted the second theory and made enormous improvements to their health.

To me, this all adds up to the second theory being worth a shot, and also the possibility that the first theory might be completely wrong.

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I eat 6 eggs every day. An usually some bacon or sausage. OMG, my heart just done 'SPLODED!!!

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Had three of these for dinner the other day. Heart feels fine :)

(I've even got the lab tests to prove it: HDL 74, TC 190, Trig. under 50, Glucose 88, BP 110/70)

alt text

(recipe here)

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TF, that food looks delicious!!! – Wcc Kamal Stabby fan Jul 2 at 13:26
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As to: "Of course high fat foods are the risk factors for heart disease as well as many others, eat healthy products, keep a balanced diet and everything will be fine!"

Here's a Balanced diet: a little bit of arsenic, a little bit of rat poison, a little bit of drain cleaner. There you go: balance!

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You want to read the "Diet Delusion" by Garry Taubes (called "Good Calories Bad Calories" in America). It explains where the lipid hypothesis came from (fat and saturated fat = heart disease) and why this conclusion is incorrect. He's a very intelligent science journalist and it is a very detailed account of the science (but it is relativly simplified for an intelligent layman so don't be too intimidated).

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Hi Ducky,

Here are some answers to your question. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/high-fat-diet-healthy-safe/

Don't stress about paleo perfection, just try to improve your diet one step at a time as best you can by eating whole, real foods and avoiding processed foods as much as possible.

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Here's a great semi-technical article explaining the alternative hypothesis that has the most evidence to support it in my view http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Does-Cholesterol-Cause-Heart-Disease-Myth.html

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I am a follower of paleo nutrition. It will be interesting to see longitudinal studies of other fellow paleo adherents . Hopefully we are right, lol!

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Since I get lots of blood work done because of my diabetes, since going Paleo about 3 years ago, my numbers have been outstanding- so much that my doctor warned me that I might not be labeled diabetic if my numbers get much better. Thank God for all the Fat I eat and the tests don't lie. BTW- if I'm declared not to be diabetic- I lose test strips, my small amount of metformin and blood tests aren't covered. And I would not of course be cured, and pay thru the azz for this compamny coverage.

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No matter how many times I was told the science behind this, I struggled to change a lifetime of being told bacon, eggs and sausages will kill me slowly and painfully. It wasn't until I realised that I had also been told to eat 6 servings of grains a day that I realised 'the man' might have got the whole thing quite wrong. If you feel great by removing grains, then my recommendation would be to trust your experience so far and just try it.

If you are really nervous, then keep up regular checks with your doctor. My doctor is actually 100% behind me going Paleo and is amazed with the improvements in my blood results over the last few months. I was previously a very ill person and am now fighting fit, the picture of health!

I'm not suggesting to go in blind, Paleo has been likened to a cult too many times for my liking given the amount of research backing it up. But for me, it was as radical as suggesting that jumping off a cliff wouldn't hurt, so at some point I had to just try it.

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hello newbie... There are lots of books and lots of information out there, they might be a good place to start.

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Be nice, we were all newbies once, and since you're only here for two months, you're not exactly a non-newbie either. – raydawg Jun 25 at 10:53
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Newer yes, but I also read a lot of about going Paleo and Primal before I showed up. – Crabbycakes Jun 25 at 17:40
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This is one of the very rare answers I actually voted down. I think you were unnecessarily rude and dismissive of the poster. Why bother commenting with something snarky like this? Maybe, as a newbie, you haven't read the FAQ, where it explicitly says "be nice." – Christopher Gagnon Jun 26 at 1:50
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And snarky wasn't what i was trying to be... I asked a fairly decent, nicer question recently and the first response I got was "FYI- this thread has been done before." Its just the internet, don't take it so seriously. All I was suggesting was open a book and start reading. – Crabbycakes Jun 26 at 17:25
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I read the question you asked, and the response you mentioned was not the same as this. You weren't dismissed as a "newbie," and more importantly, that person actually answered the question you posted. Next time consider being nicer, and maybe offering the OP some useful links or resources. Or be rude and get voted down, it's your choice. By all means don't take it too seriously, it's just the internet, and we all know that nothing bad happens when people turn to the internet for information, particularly where health is concerned. – Christopher Gagnon Jun 27 at 12:46
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Of course high fat foods are the risk factors for heart disease as well as many others, eat healthy products, keep a balanced diet and everything will be fine!

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No they're not. Please do some research before posting. – invisible ink Jun 25 at 10:50
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What's a balanced diet? – David Moss Jun 25 at 10:58
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Whenever I eat I put my food on a scale. Half goes on one side, half on the other. I have to eat carefully, but it keeps my diet balanced. – Justin M. Jun 25 at 13:05

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