Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

Question

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I'm interested in sourcing some (fairly significant) quantities of milk, and I'd obviously like it to be grass fed/pastured. (I don't much care if it's raw: I'm unconvinced of the health benefits and don't feel like eating the cost/storage difficulties.) I've found a number of places that claim cows get significantly amount of pasture, but also eat:

The cows' supplemental feed consists of alfalfa, corn, barley meal, mineral supplements and protein meal (the protein meal is sourced from flax, canola or sunflower when available; soy is only used when the other three are not available, and even then the soy is non-GMO and grown in the U.S.). The corn is grown on the farm, and overall, 75% of the feed is grown in Oregon!

http://kivagrocery.blogspot.com/2010/09/alpenrose-dairy-field-trip.html

Would you guys be willing to drink this? Any evidence what the fat breakdown on such milk would look like?

edited Oct 31 2010 at 18:34

Ed♦
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asked Oct 30 2010 at 0:52

ahh
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	Not to be too tough but one, one of the core components of this style of eating is avoiding dairy generally. Two, the only dairy that I would advise going in on at that would definitely be unpasteurized, from healthy cows of course. The pasteurization isn't helping the antithetical nature of this question I guess is what I'm saying. – ben61820 Oct 30 2010 at 1:41
	There are a ton of lacto-paleos Ben. Pasteurization isn't an ethical thing. It's a definite scientific health thing – Stephen-Aegis Oct 30 2010 at 10:37
	The above I wouldn't drink I you paid me. Soy, oils, grains... Junk! – Stephen-Aegis Oct 30 2010 at 10:45
	@stephen, i suppose its just most of my background being years of WAP. And that i view paleo eating as essentially the simplest, wisest way of eating that avoids all unhealthy things. In other words, most veg and meat and fat (assuming their properly raised of course, we're on the same page) aren't doing most of the damage that we all see in our population. In light of my view of paleo as the "un-poisonous way of eating" perhaps i hold pasteurized dairy to be among the first and most effective movements to make within the paleo scheme. But i acknowledge fully that many paleos dig on dairy. – ben61820 Oct 30 2010 at 13:56
	Ben said "anti-thetical," not anti-ethical.... – JJ Oct 31 2010 at 20:06

Shebeeste · Accepted Answer · 2010-10-30 03:26:57Z UTC

Assuming you've got some grand paleo idea for using this milk... I'm lacto paleo, but I don't drink milk. Never much liked it. And having been a vegan for a while, I know it's easy enough to sub something else for milk in most recipes, most of which aren't paleo anyway. I might be willing to try raw, unhomogenized cow's milk if it were sold in stores, but it's illegal here in Oregon unless bought directly from the farmer (raw goat milk is legal). However, if Alpenrose made half and half or heavy cream from the above milk, I would buy it. It's not like cream is a big part of my diet, it just goes in my (aiieeee!) coffee. I buy conventional cream from a local producer, vs. Organic Valley, which is only sortof local. If you made cheese out of this milk, I'd probably be willing to eat it. If it was good cheese! Mostly I eat goat cheese, grass-fed cow's milk cheese if it shows up at Grocery Outlet, and just a little cheap cheese and sometimes cheap cottage cheese. I'm loyal to a certain brand of natural but not grass-fed yogurt, but if they sourced their milk from here, I'd certainly applaud them. In some ways, for me, local trumps paleo-orthodoxy.

Are you in Oregon or is this just a random example? Alpenrose has a good reputation in Oregon. And I couldn't believe the url you posted. I used to shop at the store whose blog you linked to (still would, but I don't live there anymore--they have a great (oh horrors) imported cheese selection). Thanks for letting me know the old school 1960s healthfood store is keeping up with the times.

Andy Welch · Answer 2 · 2010-10-30 05:46:35Z UTC

Dairy = not paleo.

However, the general idea of paleo is to be more fit, more healthy, and using nutrition as a tool to get there. Stick with the basic ideas of animal proteins, nuts, seeds, a little fruit, and you will be fine... Milk just so happens to be an animal protein.

It's a way of eating guys, not a cult. If milk fits into your goals and needs, AND doesn't cause you harm, then by all means include it with an otherwise healthy diet. Guess what??? Paleo folks, the real ones, people who lived in paleolithic times DRANK MILK. It's what they fed their babies...human milk, not cows milk...but still milk.

So realistically, if you don't have health issues from including milk, it will do you no harm. Paleo + a little dairy is still better for you than the refined white flour, lots of grains, pasta, etc..that most consume daily.

Over the last 7, almost 8 years I've been eating this way. Long before paleo was cool. It's how I "cured" my diabetes and my multiple sclerosis. I no longer have to take MS drugs, don't use a wheelchair, don't even use canes any more...no, I lift heavy weights, run sprints, do the occasional triathlon, and do a very physical job that involves performing complicated rescue operations...WTC type stuff...at times. And yes, when I'm on a "bulking" diet to add a little more lean mass I include two shakes consisting of whey protein, milk, and a banana on lifting days. Still, in spite of this "poison", the overall paleo nature of my diet keeps me very healthy and fit, allowing me to stay lean and add muscle...keeping myself strong and ABLE TO WALK.

Stephen-Aegis · Answer 3 · 2010-10-30 10:44:31Z UTC

http://www.realmilk.com/

There you go. Explains the why grass fed, why raw is so important, and where to find it.

I would try to find A2 Cows if your going to drink milk. It's a less troublesome casein.

Hopefully you are doing this as one of the lucky 20% of us that are lactose tolerant as well as a non-leaky gut to further limit risk of damage via casein.

My personal opinion thru reading is that real milk is avoided and discouraged for most paleo because of those 2 reasons

Casein in leaky gut scenario

Adult Lactose Intolerance for most of the population of the planet... Not everyone has the mutation to keep drinking it.

Absolutely get it pastured,raw, and safer if you must drink it. :)

jem · Answer 4 · 2010-10-30 18:55:42Z UTC

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this sounds like regular milk to me. most dairy farms allow the cows some pasture time but the diet is mainly as you stated;grain. there's plenty of commercial milk that is hormone free. why not just get it at the grocery?

answered Oct 30 2010 at 18:55

jem
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Pastured milk - supplemental grain feed OK?

4 Answers