Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

Question

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I can eat several cups of coconut oil, almond butter, or sour cream (full fat) and not feel full. Same story with avocados and nuts. I don't feel satiated even after eating a big fatty steak. So I tend to overdo fat in my diet, and I think this is why I gained weight on Paleo.

I think my satiety signals respond better to the volume of food than the fat content. Smoothies work really work for satiety for me. Green smoothies (spinach, tomatoes and some berries) made with water fill me up really fast. Two cups of green smoothie with little fat makes me feel really full. Two cups of cheese/sour cream/almond butter will not have the same effect...

I know fat doesn't make you fat. But calories still count. I just think I consume excess calories from fat sources, because my body is not able to recognize the signals from fat for some reason.

Why don't I feel full on a high-fat diet? I eat plenty of protein (100-150g). Do you think I have abnormal gastrointestinal satiety signals? For your information, I am 23, female, 5 ft, 129lbs. I recently gained about 10-20 lbs on Paleo.

edited Jul 8 at 18:20

asked Jul 8 at 17:11

coffeesnob
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At your height I think you overeat protein too. 80 g a day should be ok for your size. Just a suggestion. – GurlzLuvSteak Jul 8 at 17:41

If I am overeating protein as well, then the question becomes why can't my body recognize when to stop eating after a decent amount of protein/fat? Is this normal? I respond well to the high volume of low fat/protein food. – coffeesnob Jul 8 at 18:22

same here coffee snob - like the others below, i would reccomend adding more carbs to the routine - it really keeps the calories and volume of the meal in line of what you want. – Sunshine Jul 8 at 19:30

Same here. Fat is usually liquid and I just don't care to get so many calories through a liquid. I get more enjoyment out of chewing my food. Starchy carb gives me more enjoyment. – ben61820 Jul 9 at 1:31

Me too. I need volume. My fat is generally 45-50%. I eat a lot of low carb veggies. Like a lot. What satiates me is a full belly so that's what I do. So no I don't think you are abnormal although I know you have a history of ED so that may be playing a part? I don't know. But although fat works for many there are plenty of us who eat a bit lower fat so we can eat more FOOD! – Shari Bambino Jul 9 at 3:10

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foreveryoung · Answer 1 · 2012-07-08 19:02:14Z UTC

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Insulin and leptin regulate appetite and satiety.

Fat does not illicit an insulin or leptin response, so it does a poor job of regulating appetite. Protein illicits an insulin response, but in the absence of carbohydrate, glucagon will be secreted from the pancreas to raise blood sugar. Starch boosts both leptin and insulin, so you'll have an easy time regulating your appetite when you eat natural (non hyper-palitable) meals with a balance of protein fat and carbs.

answered Jul 8 at 19:02

foreveryoung
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	Interesting! But what about the release of CCK stimulated protein/fat, and the decreased level of ghrelin on a high-fat diet? – coffeesnob Jul 9 at 14:29
	I have no idea. I was just confirming bias in that answer :) – foreveryoung Jul 9 at 14:58
	...if I have time later on I'll try to improve it. As of right now i do not know what CCK is and need to learn more about ghrelin. – foreveryoung Jul 9 at 15:00
	So does starch (high glucose) activate the satiety cascade better than fruit (high fructose)? – coffeesnob Jul 9 at 15:12
	Thanks! Yeah I am still getting over low-carb Taubesian dogma... haha – coffeesnob Jul 9 at 15:14

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JayJay · Answer 2 · 2012-07-08 17:12:58Z UTC

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Eat more protein. It's the king of satiation. And yes volume as part of the feedback mechanisms so use that to your advantage also.

answered Jul 8 at 17:12

JayJay
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Is more than 100-150 grams protein desireable? That's ballpark 25-30+% of calories, how many H-Gs are eating protein at that level? – Matt Jul 8 at 17:47

@Matt, Everyone is different and this meant even our HG ancestors. Just because HG did something or didn't do something should not matter. It is the framework in which we place the ancestral habits where it begins to matter. An example is that Inuit had over 3/4ths of their diet coming from Protein, while the kitavans had a higher carb intake. Both did well. Pretty much what I'm saying is, find what works for you, not what worked for some dead folks :) – Klaud Jul 8 at 19:20

Just because the Inuit have a fairly high protein diet (30-40% calories from protein) does not mean that's normal. Nor are the PNG tribes with 95% carbohydrate normal. Most H-G diets seem to come in around 20% protein. That's the norm. Extremely high protein content only happens in extreme environments. – Matt Jul 8 at 20:14

Hmmm...I missed the part where she said she consumed that much already the first time around. I'd recommend doing some very specific tracking in that case. Her remarks about how much she consumes seem rather vague so it's hard to pinpoint anything. OP have you used a tracking program? If not I would try it for a time. You may be one of the rare people who actually have to count everything out if your satiety signals truly are nuked for the time being. – JayJay Jul 9 at 0:03

Yeah I have used a tracking program. Usually my daily intake of calories comes from 100-150g of protein, 70g-120g of carb and the rest from fat. Thank you! – coffeesnob Jul 9 at 2:11

Matt · Answer 3 · 2012-07-08 17:17:04Z UTC

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Remember: N=1 and YMMV. Not everybody responds to macros, micros, individual foods, etc in the same way. Some folks' satiety is driven by fiber, some by fat, others by protein. Figure out what works for you.

answered Jul 8 at 17:17

Matt
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tcita · Answer 4 · 2012-07-08 17:37:17Z UTC

I have this exact same experience. I'm 5'2", 125lbs and eat about 120 grams of protein each day. When I go lo carb though (below 50g) I overeat on fat because I just cannot get full. As a result, I end up gaining close to 10lbs every time I go lo-carb. I've found that adding in starchy vegetables, more fruit, and just general carbs (sometimes rice, but still only getting around 100g of carb a day) has really helped me to realize when I'm sated and cut my calories down.

Rebekah · Answer 5 · 2012-07-08 18:51:48Z UTC

hey again, friend :) this is why i think seeing a nutritionist might work for you like i said the other day... with a history of ED's, not only is your body messed up, but your mind is. it takes a long time after struggling with food issues to actually be able to hear your body when it speaks. you aren't broken forever, though!

for me, i know i cannot just ask myself when i am full... because that's a twisted game for me (almost always is emotional/used to judge my "success for the day" and often ends in overeating or a binge). it's much better to ask myself when i am truly hungry enough for a meal, and then eat according to my plan, not to ask if i am full while i am still eating. i am rarely "full," but am gettin better about hearing my body's signals of hunger.

getting into a meal plan for now could help you mentally relax and physically teach your body when to be hungry and when to just move on because you are emotional. when you have gone through phases of starvation and phases of overeating, it's hard to be objective on what you even are feeling anymore. we get so used to disconnecting and using/abusing our bodies that it's hard to listen when they talk. it isn't your body causing problems, but a brokenness in your heart (although proper nutrition helps!). sending you big hugs.

Karen P. · Answer 6 · 2012-07-09 00:46:48Z UTC

Richard over at Free The Animal ran a trial with potatoes for satiety: http://freetheanimal.com/2012/02/synthesis-low-carb-and-food-rewardpalatability-and-why-calories-count.html

My own experience bears this out too. When my hunger feels out of control, instead of getting all snacky-snacky, I make a smoothie with ice, coconut milk, almond butter, banana, and either some other fruit (peach, blueberry, blackberry) or a scoop of cocoa powder. Kills hunger every time.

I've also been making a breakfast of steamed sweet potatoes and plantains with butter and cinnamon. Two fried eggs if I need more.

So another vote for upping the carbs in measured doses. I can certainly go crazy with rice, so I have to be careful with that one.

Good luck to you!

YoungPaleoLover · Answer 7 · 2012-07-09 00:28:20Z UTC

I had this same problem and I finally figured it out: when upping one macronutrient, you need to watch the others-- you can't eat the same amount of carbs and protein you were previously eating. ON that note, what I now do is restrict my protein intake, but make sure I am getting plenty of carbs (sweet potatoes mostly-- it seems like you may not eat many carbs and this can really agitate hunger). Every time I eat carbs I pair it with fat! NO EXCEPTION. In addition, I limit my fat intake to no more than 90 grams a day. But, I'm petite and it still comes out to 60% of my diet as: 2 tbsp coconut oil, 1.5 EVOO, natural fat from fish or meat, a few nuts, and maybe an avocado that day. You also need to watch what fats you are consuming. I go heavy on the saturated and make sure my omega-3 intake is solid, but keep the o-6s low. MUFAs are just an addition to my diet like, "Hey let's put some EVOO in this salad...or top a salad with avocado." (Saturated and MUFAs are the only macronutrients NOT toxic in excess)

Klaud · Answer 8 · 2012-07-08 17:17:57Z UTC

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Eat more protein. Oh wait, someone said that already. :)

answered Jul 8 at 17:17

Klaud
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Also, try adding in some carbs, I know it sounds crazy, but if you don't feel full eat more sweet potato or some white rice once in a while. – Klaud Jul 8 at 17:18

I agree...I was recently going Very low carb. Added a sweet potato & white rice post workout. I'm seeing impressive gains & I'm never sore anymore. – Andrew Jul 8 at 17:25

Interesting. I have shunned carbs because of the insulin response to high-carb food. Do you know why increasing carbs helps with satiety? That is the opposite of what I've read so far. – coffeesnob Jul 8 at 18:24

Carbohydrates take longer to break down I believe. I've heard the "eat more carbs for dinner" suggestion from Robb Wolf for someone who was waking in the middle of the night due to extreme hunger. Give it a shot and let us know how it works :) – Klaud Jul 8 at 19:16

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insulin is a hormone that also triggers the "satiety" cascade signals in the body. Insulin isn't evil. Insulin is released anytime you eat, no matter what it is. – Sunshine Jul 8 at 19:32

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Crowlover · Answer 9 · 2012-07-08 17:22:05Z UTC

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I agree about upping the protein so its closer to the 150gr that you mention. With that, lower your fat a bit.

I'm curious - is this really just a Paleo diet thing? Did you have better/accurate feelings or signals of satiety before?

answered Jul 8 at 17:22

Crowlover
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	I do have a history of ED. But I am wondering why my body responds well to low fat/protein, high-volume food but not so well to high fat/protein food. Is there an underlying reason for this in terms of hormonal regulation, etc.? – coffeesnob Jul 8 at 18:26
	I think foreveryoung may have this answer above. I would add, in response to your comment here that if low/fat protein, high-volume food works for YOU then why not just eat those. I think its wrong for us to go by what "should" work vrs what "does" in reality, actually work! You have gained 20 lbs on Paleo so clearly something is not working for you... don't feel bad about that, just do what works! – Crowlover Jul 8 at 20:25
	Yeah... now my menu is looking more and more pescatarian... – coffeesnob Jul 9 at 15:10
	that's not necessarily bad for now, as long as it isn't chosen in bondage from fears. if you just love it and feel good, do it! – Rebekah Jul 9 at 19:23

Chinaeskimo · Answer 10 · 2012-07-09 01:08:54Z UTC

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Hi! Maybe your system is still off kilter, maybe not. I don't think you have been eating normally long enough to really know. I know that when you are recovering from an eating disorder, your body craves all sorts of weird things and goes through of changes.

I am glad you are hanging in there :-)

answered Jul 9 at 1:08

Chinaeskimo
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	Thank you!!!!!! – coffeesnob Jul 9 at 15:10
	word. going from restriction to binge eating to paleo to high fat... hang in there! your body doesn't know what's happening! – Rebekah Jul 9 at 19:24

Fat does not fill me up.

10 Answers