Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

Question

5

Just interested in your responses. I give a long facepalm and explain that calcium is abundant in green leafy vegetables, as well as some fruits/nuts, and I'd rather get my calcium without lactose, casein, and hormones in the mixture

Their latest response to that is "THERES NOT ENOUGH CALCIUM IN VEGETABLES U N33D DAAARY" "NOT ENUF." "YUR BONEZZZZ", so I just tell them we've only been consuming dairy for the past 10,000 years, and ask how we survived before that.

That doesn't work so well on the young earth creationists though.

flag	asked Jul 10 at 23:45 0L1V3R 51●1

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How much spinach do you want to eat...."Humans only absorb about five percent, or 12 out of 244 milligrams, of the calcium present in a cup of cooked spinach. On the other hand, about 100 of the 300 milligrams present in milk is absorbed." Parmesan cheese on the other hand has lots of calcium, and you only need a little bit. Cheese isn't a problem for many lactose intolerant people because the lactose is broken down in the process. Just a thought. – CJ Jul 11 at 0:13

I agree with CJ. Dairy is just a really convenient and efficient source of calcium among other nutrients/minerals. I personally don't have anything against dairy. it's still considered a whole food in my book. Unless you have MAJOR issues with it, i see no reason to avoid it. minor ones can usually be resolved over time as your body learns how to deal with it. As for the hormones issue - naturally occurring hormones are present in your meat/ poultry as well, no matter what your source is. – Sunshine Jul 11 at 0:33

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CJ-Spinach does have poorly absorbable calcium, but it's really more of the exception in regards to leafy greens. Kale, and to a lesser extent other leafy greens, stand right up there with milk in regards to calcium absorption: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2321572 – Mscott Jul 11 at 0:56

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Most fish is a good source of calcium. – BoneBrothFast Jul 11 at 2:23

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Kris, the only study your link cited that critically reviewed the effects of dairy on bone health had this to say: "Of 57 outcomes of the effects of dairy foods on bone health, 53% were not significant, 42% were favorable, and 5% were unfavorable. Of 21 stronger-evidence studies, 57% were not significant, 29% were favorable, and 14% were unfavorable". It appears that dairy isn't so much a terrible source of calcium, but that it just isn't a uniquely beneficial one. – Mscott Jul 11 at 2:33

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HuntingBears · Answer 1 · 2012-07-10 23:55:30Z UTC

9

You could cite this recent post from the New York Times

'Osteoporosis? You don’t need milk, or large amounts of calcium, for bone integrity. In fact, the rate of fractures is highest in milk-drinking countries, and it turns out that the keys to bone strength are lifelong exercise and vitamin D, which you can get from sunshine.'

'Sugar — in the form of lactose — contributes about 55 percent of skim milk’s calories, giving it ounce for ounce the same calorie load as soda.'

'This in a country where as many as 50 million people are lactose intolerant, including 90 percent of all Asian-Americans and 75 percent of all African-Americans, Mexican-Americans and Jews'

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/07/got-milk-you-dont-need-it/

answered Jul 10 at 23:55

HuntingBears
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C'mon, I'm no fan of skim milk, but comparing it calorically to soda is just disingenuous (and I suspect not even mathematically correct). – Mscott Jul 11 at 1:11

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Skim milk is a serious processed product. All those lovely vitamins we're talking about that dairy products contain? Yeah, they're largely fat soluble - so when you remove the fat, you remove the vitamins. In the case of skim milk, lab synthesized vitamins are then added back, to give the appearance of being healthy. If you're going to consume dairy, go for butter, cheese, cream, whole milk if you tolerate it, not processed junk. – raney Jul 11 at 1:45

Even whole grocery store milk is pretty processed (though I do drink the organic stuff myself when I can't afford $6/gallon for the raw). On a lot of the labels, you'll see that it contains "milk and skim milk" because they add the skim crud back into the regular stuff, not even counting the pasteurization and homogenization and all that. Go raw if you can! So many more nutrients, and live enzymes to help you break down that lactose. – Varelse Jul 11 at 18:40

JayJay · Answer 2 · 2012-07-10 23:52:49Z UTC

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I don't explain myself to anyone. Hell, if all I consumed was skittles and Jack Daniels I wouldn't be compelled to have to defend myself.....

If someone is truly interested I guess thats a different story.

answered Jul 10 at 23:52

JayJay
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"Hell, if all I consumed was skittles and Jack Daniels I wouldn't be compelled to have to defend myself.." How true! People automatically think that anyone outside of the box is "wrong". – bachcole Jul 11 at 0:29

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I think I tried that diet for a while, except it was beer and skittles (never was much of a whiskey drinker). It was the Skïttlebrau diet. – trjones Jul 11 at 2:47

Very nice............. – Bill1102inf Jul 11 at 20:15

hotlava · Answer 3 · 2012-07-11 02:38:30Z UTC

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There are plenty of healthy strong-boned animals out there who never drink milk in adulthood and never, ever from another species. Like, um.. all of them.

answered Jul 11 at 2:38

hotlava
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	+1 for giving the exact response I was going to give. – Andrea Jul 11 at 16:51
	I also added that response to a conversation I was having with my mother. +1! – SCUBABry Jul 11 at 23:59
	Nice response Hot Lava! – Eric Jul 17 at 6:39

SCUBABry · Answer 4 · 2012-07-11 01:00:12Z UTC

I recently got this question from my family members (extended ones) and I responded with a question. What makes dairy good for you? Their answer is always, vitamin D and other important nutrients. Then I ask them, well, where does the milk get those from? The answer is always, well the milk has been fortified with them. then my final question is always...OK, so if milk is so good for you then why do they need to add stuff to it? Leaves em stumped every time.

Aglaee the Paleo RD · Answer 5 · 2012-07-11 11:41:08Z UTC

I explain that dairy is not necessarily good for everyone (insulinogenic properties + hormones + lactose + casein).

I explain that many people have strong bones without dairy.

I explain that there are other sources of calcium besides dairy.

I explain that you don't need as much calcium if your diet is lower in toxins and antinutrients.

I explain that there is more to bone health than dairy (vitamin D, vitamin K2, magnesium, weight-bearing exercises.

The book Vitamin K2 and the calcium paradox is great!

KA24 · Answer 6 · 2012-07-10 23:54:17Z UTC

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Ask them to "define dairy."

Some might mention milk. Others might say butter. Undoubtedly someone mentions eggs. I'll usually just chuckle and walk away. Eggs...

answered Jul 10 at 23:54

KA24
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Eugenia · Answer 7 · 2012-07-11 00:10:25Z UTC

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I personally do need dairy, otherwise my teeth complain. But not any type of dairy. It must be only from goat/sheep/buffalo (more compatible casein to that of normal cows), and it must be fermented (goat kefir is godsend for health).

answered Jul 11 at 0:10

Eugenia
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RaiseFitness · Answer 8 · 2012-07-11 01:21:37Z UTC

Getting rid of grains with phytic acid will help your calcium levels more than anything. Some are more tolerant to dairy than others. I use pastured organic hormone free heavy cream in my coffee and for desserts, but I have no problem with it. I also do aged cheeses.

UncleLongHair · Answer 9 · 2012-07-11 11:07:20Z UTC

Who is telling you? A doctor, or some random schmoe on the street?

One view is that digesting milk as an adult is a relatively recent evolutionary adaptation (within the last few thousand years) and many people / cultures don't have it. Milk does not factor into many Asian diets for example. You can get all of the nutrients you need from other sources.

The whole thing about milk being the "perfect food" is just a product of big agra marketing.

DePaw · Answer 10 · 2012-07-11 12:51:58Z UTC

Also vitamin K2 is very important, it's found in grass-fed animal fats and dairy (like kerrygold butter), pastured egg yolks. Weston Price called it 'Activator X'.

K2 can five fold increase calcium absorption, and also helps the calcium get into the teeth and bones (which means you'll only need to eat 200mg calcium, not the RDA of >1000mg! for a start).

Supplementing vitamin D without K2 can lead to calcification of the arteries causing heart attacks.

The article really explains the science of K2 and why it's so vital: http://www.westonaprice.org/fat-soluble-activators/x-factor-is-vitamin-k2

Also this book is incredible: http://www.amazon.com/Vitamin-K2-Calcium-Paradox-Little-Known/dp/1118065727

My mother has bone issues and I gave her supplemental K2 as MK-7, thorne brand, and she is doing very well taking 1mg (1 drop) per day.

GurlzLuvSteak · Answer 11 · 2012-07-11 14:46:28Z UTC

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I agree with them. Grass-fed butter is essential and delicious. Yum.

answered Jul 11 at 14:46

GurlzLuvSteak
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Yep...I agree. I do need dairy. Because it is delicious and I love it and I do not seem to have any ill effects from it. But I only consume grass-fed raw dairy...no one needs commercial dairy. – Andrea Jul 11 at 16:52

Alex · Answer 12 · 2012-07-11 14:08:30Z UTC

Just as Grok would say "Milk, what milk? Me no drink milk!" He didn't need milk and niether do alot of other cultures around the world today. You can find a decent amount of calcuim in some cooked kale (about 94mg per cup), which is where I like to get some of my calcium from. As far as Vitamin D goes, I like to drink a nice glass of daily sunshine everyday, so I feel I'm good there. Not a super educated response, I know, but enough to keep me convinced!

HRHMom · Answer 13 · 2012-07-11 14:40:37Z UTC

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I found an almond-coconut blend milk that i put in my smoothies. it's higher in calcium than standard milk.

answered Jul 11 at 14:40

HRHMom
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How do you respond when told “you need dairy”?

13 Answers