Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

Question

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I found myself puzzled by the majority of responses in a recent question on controlling anxiety and have to ask:

How is it "paleo" to be prescribing magnesium and other supplementation to address anxiety?

[Incidentally there is only pre-clinical (animal research) evidence to date to support that magnesium is better than placebo.]

In my view, if indeed there is a (correctly diagnosed) nutritional deficiency then the "paleo" method should ideally be to address with a whole food and/or activity prior to resorting to supplementation.

For example, a vit D deficiency can be addressed by eating salmon (whole food) and/or exposure to sun (activity).

edited Nov 15 at 11:34

asked Aug 3 at 2:39

meta

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Its pretty hard to get water with magnesium in it, which is how paleo folks would have gotten most of theres. Of course some of the expensive european mineral waters cut the mustard mag wise, but its not like food sourced magnesium will do the job every time. Didnt for me, I ate plenty of food sourced magnesium. Still I get your point for most stuff, like basic vitamins. The body is supposed to run pretty well on its own, given the right inputs. Some people supplement like mad things. – Jamie Aug 3 at 4:45

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its as if many people on this site forget that the world we live in is not the same as it was during Paleolithic times! This is the 21st century remember and the world is very toxic. – Crowlover Aug 3 at 6:29

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Call it un-paleo, but when you have scary, disabling panic attacks to the point where you're sure you'll be driven to insanity, it's much easier to swallow a few capsules than to meticulously plan out your meals--and it's kind of hard to get enough sunshine when you can't even bring yourself to leave your house. – Mick Jagger Aug 3 at 8:30

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.. Also, I'm pretty sure supplements are a LOT more paleo than benzodiazepines, MAOIs and SSRIs. – Mick Jagger Aug 3 at 8:33

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@ Crowlover: i'm not on a paleo diet - at least i dont think i am by some of the standards discussed here. what i am on is based on an understanding of ancestral diet and activity and an attempt to apply them rationally in a modern world – meta Aug 3 at 11:03

show 8 more comments

Dragonfly · Answer 1 · 2012-08-03 03:17:47Z UTC

"Paleo" recommendations will only get you so far, when many of us are living in a very different environments/latitudes from the one in which our ancestors evolved.

Sufficient Magnesium is challenging to get from food/water sources because of environmental depletion/phytic acid inhibiting absorption, hence the supplement recommendation.

My n=1 evidence is that 150-250 mg of supplemental Magnesium before bed gives me a really good night's sleep. It's also needed as a co-factor for D3.

Supplementing D3 got rid of my SAD symptoms when I was living in the Pac NW, where it is near impossible to get enough D3 from sun exposure due to latitude. My fair husband was also tested as very deficient, despite lots of shirt-off hiking year-round. More info at www.vitamindcouncil.org

And FYI, some of us are too old, dark-complected or vain(!) to make enough D3 from sun exposure. I live in Santa Fe, NM at 7,000 feet and eat salmon twice a week, sun in a bikini for 1/2 hour a day between 10-2 (all I can do with the heat.) I stopped supplementing at the end of April and I just tested 40 ng/ml lower than when I was supplementing.

A at Grain Free Diet · Answer 2 · 2012-08-03 03:30:40Z UTC

Well, there are other factors involved. What if you live in a house where no one except you eats fish, and even you who does eat fish gets nauseous at the smell of cooking salmon. And, you can't afford to spend money on two dinners. And on top of that, the place you live in only gets some sun around 3 months out of the year, and the rest of the year it's solid gray cloud cover. So no matter how much you would love to bask in the sun, you can't. It's just not there.

In that case, it's more efficient to supplement with vitamin d. Is supplementing with vitamin d paleo? Probably not, but it helps immensely.

If I lived somewhere else where there was sun, would I supplement with vitamin d? No. It's situational.

While yes, whole foods for everything would be great, we all have our own personal challenges to deal with. And, for some, that involves the use of supplementation to get us over that hill. I think the end goal here is health, and if some choose to use supplementation to hit that goal post, I don't see any problem with it.

BaconHealsChic · Answer 3 · 2012-10-23 14:09:25Z UTC

I'm really only here to find what "works." I'm not trying to join a cult with rules and demogoguery.

I think most people would agree food source is the desired resource and if it's more helpful to that person's individual circumstances then supplementation is the alternative.

This is not a HUGE issue in my opinion.

thhq · Answer 4 · 2012-08-04 01:57:05Z UTC

Today I dodged three cars. The rush. Outside, warm and sunny, heart beating. Later on still alive some fish and more coffee.

That's paleo for me. It's not recreating Grok. It's just life in motion. It's interesting that I also treated a vitamin D deficiency without taking a supplement.

But then that was never the point.

terre rouge · Answer 5 · 2012-08-03 03:18:48Z UTC

This may just be the hacker in me talking (and I think we're in the right place for that), but paleo, primal, what-have you is a great library to borrow from, and the general guidelines have benefited me immensely, but if there are additional things I can do to tweak (and there are, and I do), or more efficient ways to get the benefits of paleo without having to accept it all part-and-parcel, I'll do that to. If bioavailability isn't compromised by the supplements in question, why not do it that way?

tl;dr; Is it paleo? Who cares? This is paleohacks, not paleostrictadherence .

score 2 · Answer 6 · 2012-10-23 14:01:09Z UTC

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I would have expected at least some attempt at more creative problem solving strategies other than prescribing supplements - many of which have no effect other than to enrich urine.

The comment, "So, for acute radiation exposure, like Three Mile Island or Chernobyl, your recommendation would be what? Eat more liver?" missed the point entirely but was particularly telling as it was - surprisingly - representative of the consensus.

edited Oct 23 at 14:01

answered Aug 4 at 1:33

meta

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I'd guess you are both taking the extreme side in those comments. Should we treat radiation sickness with liver? No. But should we prescribe supplements as a first line of defense? No. How about something reasonable like, "Maybe your Vitamin Blah is a little low. Try boosting your Vitamin Blah intake with such-n-such foods, and if that doesn't provide relief then try a supplement" is more along the lines of what most PHers are going for. – Varelse Aug 4 at 1:43

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I suppose you could spin this in a paleo way...obsessions like these are like primitive belief in the power of magic, or the modern findings on placebo effects. Paleo pundits such as Sisson and Kruse have almost shamanistic power over their little flocks. There's the shame of ostracism for those that won't believe in the fish oil, or bacon and egg buffets, or magnesium, or whatever. Tribal wars break out...downvotes result... – thhq Aug 4 at 23:46

Michael · Answer 7 · 2012-11-15 12:24:26Z UTC

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Like others have said wregarding your other threads Harry, can you please let it go and let a thread run a 'natural course'? If you want exposure for your questions, viewpoints, genefuel business or whatever there has to be a better-spirited way than constantly bumping your posts with non-edits. Seriously.

answered Nov 15 at 12:24

Michael
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Are you my personal self-appointed sheriff, Michael? Seriously. – meta Nov 15 at 12:43

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nope, just expressing my opinion on this. Note that I've actually answered your question. Care to answer mine? What is you rationale behind constant edits? – Michael Nov 15 at 13:08

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A quest for knowledge. – meta Nov 15 at 14:23

But is it paleo ?

7 Answers