Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

Question

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Danny Roddy just finished his new book The Peat Whisperer and I for one am really curious to give it a read. I know many people on PH are skeptical about Peat's recommendations, but I find alternative viewpoints interesting, and am intrigued to find out more about where he is coming from. Anyone else?

edited Aug 7 at 13:26

asked Aug 6 at 14:42

j3wcy
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Probably not the best headline, given Betteridge's Law of Headlines en.wikipedia.org/wiki/… – Wisper Aug 7 at 0:03

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don't listen to wisper. who cares about betteridge. your original headline was better for paleohacks. much better. – Jack Kronk Aug 7 at 3:39

And now it's not a question, and should be closed like all the other threads which are not questions :P – Wisper Aug 7 at 9:06

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wisper.. let's think throught this a bit, shall we? First of all... it is indeed now a question. It wasn't when it changed based on Betteridge's Law, which states not to make headlines questions. Well.. this is Paleohacks, which needs the headlines to be questions. Also, this thread was headlined at the top of the site in the sand colored bar. It is my understanding that a thread only gets there if a MOD puts it there, and I believe it's Patrik, the guy who runs Paleohacks, meaning that he gave his stamp of approval on the thread. Is this enough? Or shall I continue... – Jack Kronk Aug 7 at 14:45

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I don't understand this Betteridge business. The wikipedia entry reduces it to "if it ends with a question mark, it can be answered with a 'no.'" But this clearly isn't true. How about, "What are your thoughts about Danny Roddy's new book?" Furthermore, since Betteridge refers to headlines for poorly substantiated articles, in that context, the question form seems perfectly appropriate here, where folks are asking questions they generally lack information on--to solicit that information. I call shenanigans on the Betteridge invocation. – Christopher Gagnon Aug 8 at 10:52

Korion · Answer 1 · 2012-08-06 20:22:09Z UTC

Bought the book and I'm not disappointed. I like Danny Roddy, so I thought he'd deserve some of my moneh :). It's a perfect book to carry around all the time just as a good reference.

I've mentioned Ray Peat in several very different communities for the past few weeks. PaleoHacks is by far the most kind community :), but usually I get 'oh Ray Peat is just a quack' response.

I understand it's hard to believe that sugar, heaps of salt, aspirin, coffee, orange juice and milk can be really good for you, but I think it'd be wise for anyone out there to remain open-minded. I've seen very conflicting anecdotes on this website regarding food tolerance (Dragonfly and other people mention they cured their intolerances to whole foods with vitamin D or similar treatments, some people can't tolerate SAD food anymore after starting paleo), and I think Ray Peat has some interesting viewpoints that can shed some light on these kind of questions. And he makes me laugh the way he answers questions. And his voice is silly.

Said this 2 months ago, I think, and it's still true : until now he's the only guy ever who has been right about everything for me. Everything he says confirms my anecdotes. Call it coincidence, I'm gonna keep reading his stuff and try out every damn thing he talks about :). Usually I tend to protect my diet as if it were my religion, so I might be biased :)

Soporificat · Answer 2 · 2012-08-06 14:57:36Z UTC

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Yeah, just got his update about the book, but I'm not willing to pay $47 for an 80 page book (!).

I have hypo issues, which is a big focus of Peat's, so I'm interested, but the diet strikes me as odd. I still don't know what to think about fructose (is it the solution to all my problems, a la Peat, or is it Satan, basically everybody else). Also, what is the obsession with OJ? And milk? I'm confused :(

Actually, given that milk/dairy is central to the diet, I can't do it anyway, since my body attacks itself when I eat casein. So, maybe it is all moot for me. But, the Peat protocol promises the fountain of youth, and I want to go to there!!!

answered Aug 6 at 14:57

Soporificat
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The obsession with milk and oj is due to their nutrient-density. If you drink 2 quarts of each you basically got almost every nutrient covered. And your iron intake will still be low. And the taste, of course :). – Korion Aug 6 at 15:12

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Well the reason he talks about milk seems obvious, there aren't any better sources of food available based on what Ray Peat says : low iron, high calcium, high nutrient density, easily digestible, low PUFAs, .... Orange juice is also a good one because it tastes good and with most other fruits/fruit juices you can easily find problems (eg. pectin, serotonin, tryptophan, ...). OJ is really high in magnesium, potassium, ... I lost my bias against sugar pretty quickly after experimenting with it. – Korion Aug 6 at 20:05

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Peat just chosen different demons to fight: iron, total PUFAs, etc... – Matt Aug 6 at 22:19

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Lots of things are good in a certain context – Michael Aug 7 at 1:59

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BBF, yeah, I got trolled, good job. I was being intentionally silly to illustrate my point, but ironically, you don't notice the silliness in your original comment. Why remove a food that other people are allergic to if you personally aren't allergic? Why remove two nutritionally-dense food groups when the name of the game is nutrient density? Are you aware that you could get all your nutritional needs by consuming only dairy and fruit? (I'm not advocating eating only dairy/fruit.) Come on dude, you're being dishonest. – dante Aug 10 at 5:04

show 13 more comments

daz · Answer 3 · 2012-08-07 05:31:29Z UTC

Always curious to hear what Danny has to say, esp with regards to Peat.
I am very open to Peat (and Roddy). Jaminet got me looking at carbs more closely & Roddy (channelling Peat) has got me looking at sugars more closely.

The pulse rate subject is another item that seems to be at odds with CW, I need to look in to that one a bit further;
Peat says "Healthy and intelligent groups of people have been found to have an average resting pulse rate of 85/minute, while less healthy groups average close to 70/minute."

So from what i can tell Peat (and Danny) view a chronic resting pulse of 70/minute to be low and unhealthy.

Whereas i would have said that 'most people' would see a pulse of 70/minute quite normal and maybe even high for a resting pulse. Would love to hear some comments on the topic.

Jules K · Answer 4 · 2012-08-07 16:14:26Z UTC

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Ehhhh, I couldn't bring myself to spend that much on a book unless it's for school and I have to. I'm curious, but not wildly so.

answered Aug 7 at 16:14

Jules K
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	Fair enough Jules. As an aside, big up for Southern MD; I went to undergrad down that way. – j3wcy Aug 7 at 17:24
	Nice! St. Mary's I presume? – Jules K Aug 8 at 12:39
	Indeed, although I spent most of my time at the Green Door. – j3wcy Aug 8 at 13:43
	I used to go there about 4 times a week! That was about 7 years ago; they've done some renovations in there a couple years ago but it's retained its rustic charm. – Jules K Sep 11 at 19:47

Colin · Answer 5 · 2012-08-06 15:53:34Z UTC

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Ya I'm interested in this point of view as well and I've taken a couple things from that camp into my own diet like not eating too much fiber and relaxing a little bit if I do have some sugar every now and then.

I still don't get it though, from what I understand the adrenal glands regulate thyroid when they're functioning properly, so shouldn't we focus on getting plenty of micro nutrients, heal the adrenals and then let the body function how it's suppose to on it's own? Rather than eating lots of sugar and other unusual food stuffs.

Plus is it really that healthy to have a high metabolic rate without the biochemistry/nutrients to sustain it? Have you listened to any of Dr. Peat's lectures, not to disrespect the man but he does have a pretty raspy voice which is a symptom of hyperthyroid.

That said though I'm interested in thriving as long as I can in my life and Dr Peat's been studying biology his whole life and seems like a good guy so I think I would be wise to try and understand his point of view.

answered Aug 6 at 15:53

Colin
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"heal the adrenals" how does one do that? The whole point of Ray Peat is raising metabolism. He sees disease as a lack of biological energy. So to live longer, you have to live more (= higher metabolism). It's more complicated than this, but it explains why Ray Peat is such a big fan of caffeine, sugar, coconut oil, milk, ... since they all increase metabolism. It wouldn't be wise to have a high metabolism when you have deficiencies, hence the recommendation to eat liver and shellfish regularly. – Korion Aug 6 at 20:08

And Dr. Peat is hyperthyroid, probably. He (and Lita Lee too) has mentioned that hyperthyroidism seems to increase longevity. I remember that Lita Lee even wrote that it is fine to be hyperthyroid. – Korion Aug 6 at 20:08

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@Korion-Ya he could be right, it just goes against everything I've learned so far you know. I just can't accept(yet) that sugar & coffee are really beneficial to the body. Maybe if what I'm doing know doesn't work out then I'll give it a shot. As far as healing the adrenals well that's a little complicated too. A nutritional balancing program, loads of rest, high quality fats & oils, detox protocols and responsible exercise. It can take a while though so Peat's diet is definitely more convenient. cheers! – Colin Aug 6 at 21:14

Do you think Peat is hyperthyroid as in, out of normal range on labs with clinical presnetation of symptoms? Or just on the high side of the euthyroid range, like subclinical? I ask because in my youth I was hyperthyroid (likely from autoimmune disease), and it was NOT a place I ever want to go back to. Bulging eyeballs, bone-thin, almost manic energy but weakness, etc. But my anti-thyroid treatment was too aggressive and I have been hypothyroid for most of my adult life. A little hyper sure sounds awfully appealing, but I can't seem to tolerate it when it's induced by meds like Armour. – Christopher Gagnon Aug 8 at 11:07

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Hey Christopher, definitely sub clinical he looks pretty healthy for someone in his seventies. Don't let my opinion sway you one way or the other I've become skeptical of new diets after trying a few things that haven't worked out very well. – Colin Aug 9 at 3:12

Nicole · Answer 6 · 2012-08-07 16:24:20Z UTC

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I'm very interested in the book, but not for $47. I just can't justify that right now.

It's already been said above - adding another vote for that.

answered Aug 7 at 16:24

Nicole
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I would've bought it for $10. – Anon Aug 7 at 19:18

Jake · Answer 7 · 2012-08-07 03:04:39Z UTC

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Don't trust anyone who uses smart art to visually illustrate every minor cause and effect in your body.

answered Aug 7 at 3:04

Jake
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Huh? What do you mean by that haha? – Korion Aug 7 at 9:00

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He's saying he doesn't trust Danny because he does that, which I think is not a great reason, as I personally like the diagrams, as they help me visualize and understand. – j3wcy Aug 7 at 13:29

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Oh I thought he was talking about Ray Peat and his paintings of naked women. – Korion Aug 7 at 17:57

Bill1102inf · Answer 8 · 2012-08-08 02:40:18Z UTC

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I wont judge anyone because they sin differently than I do, nor will I judge them because they eat differently AS LONG AS they do not polute the internet with abject BS.

With regards to weight loss, its almost all about calories in vs calories out. ALWAYS.

I have people losing weight while eating cheeseburgers and drinking beers, and some of these people are under 10% bf, in fact, its easier to lose weight when under 10% bf BY DRINKING BEER!

They do not eat Paleo because they don't want to. Can you lose weight by drinking a lot of milk and fructose? It depends, but you most certainly will not if you eat actual food with it in any quantity that will satiate you. Period.

answered Aug 8 at 2:40

Bill1102inf
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PS, if 'Whats for breakfast' is a chapter, its ALL BS !!!! – Bill1102inf Aug 8 at 2:41

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I have a hard time figuring out if you're just saying this to piss us off or if you really mean it. Either you haven't read a single thing written by Danny Roddy/Ray Peat, or you are just a bro having fun on the interwebs. Either way, I gained weight on a 1500kcal diet in november 2010, didn't gain any weight on 3000kcal in summer 2011. My father mentioned that his cousin could do anything she wanted, she would even gain weight when drinking water (she had a thyroid disease). – Korion Aug 8 at 7:41

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I suspect the truth in Bill1102inf's assertion is this: if you ate 3000kcal and did not gain weight, then you must have gotten rid of that fuel somehow We really only have three pathways to do that: fat storage, metabolism, or excretion. The problem with this argument is that it is a truism that doesn't provide much help. It's like saying "under the right conditions, the sun will rise." It's incontestably true, you cannot invalidate it, but it provides very little useful or practical information. In other words, it is rhetoric. Rhetoric is perhaps not the best tool here. – Christopher Gagnon Aug 8 at 11:33

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@Korion - It's not even worth getting pissed off. He obviously either hasn't read anything written by either or can't understand it. We've gotten in the calories in calories out argument on other threads; total waste of time. @ CG - Well said sir. – j3wcy Aug 8 at 13:50

Pointless post as the book focuses on health. I've never had weight problems whatever diet I ate. – Paul Aug 8 at 16:00

Anyone else wildly curious about Danny Roddy’s new book “The Peat Whisperer”?

8 Answers