Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

Question

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Just watched forks over knives and i'm sure a lot of the epidemiology set forth can be debated, but one piece of evidence stuck out: The stroke and heart attack data for Norway during ww2. Apparently the germans assimilated most or all of the livestock for their troops and left the people of Norway to cope without them. Meanwhile the stroke and heart attack rate went down dramatically during this period and rose again with the cessation of hostilities at the end of the war....

Anyone know what to make of this? It seems to be the closest that epidemiology can come to cause and effect...

flag	asked Aug 23 at 13:59 jackson 519●1●8

Epidemiology can only hint at cause and effect. – Dave S. Aug 23 at 14:33

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did you read what i said or did you just feel like repeating it? – jackson Aug 23 at 14:40

I interpreted what you said to mean that this came close to proving cause and effect. If that's not what you meant, then I retract my comment. – Dave S. Aug 23 at 14:58

Alex · Answer 1 · 2012-08-23 14:05:40Z UTC

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Denise Minger tackled that issue here:

http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/09/22/forks-over-knives-is-the-science-legit-a-review-and-critique/

answered Aug 23 at 14:05

Alex
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Yep. Sugar consumption down by 50%. Fish consumption up by 200%. Total calories down by 20%. So, it was definitely the reduction in meat that made them healthier. I tend to think the calorie restriction could be the most important factor, but maybe it was the fish. Or, all of the above. So long, and thanks for all the fish! – Dave S. Aug 23 at 14:39

Tee hee. Gotta love some Douglas Adams... – syrahna Aug 23 at 14:55

Agree with Dave S. Calorie restriction was probably the biggest factor. At least its a factor that without much dispute does increase longevity. – scottts Aug 23 at 17:42

Stabby · Answer 2 · 2012-08-24 03:47:50Z UTC

Denise hit it out the park.

This reminds me of The Spanish Paradox http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7754987

In Spain during the time meat, dairy, and overall saturated fat increased, cardiovascular disease decreased. It's well-documented. Does that mean that those don't contribute to cardiovascular disease? We can't say from this study because there were -confounding factors-

We wouldn't want to be cherry-picking dogmatists like Forks Over Knives.

Alec · Answer 3 · 2012-08-23 15:01:36Z UTC

About 10 years ago I actually wrote to an e-mail to Dr. Uffe Ravnskov, author of Cholesterol Myths, about that question.

He replied that sugar, cigarettes, and gasoline were also rationed. Every attempt to repeat that observation in a controlled study of the same duration as the war has failed.

John the Drunkard · Answer 4 · 2012-08-24 02:41:01Z UTC

I'm sure that strokes and heart disease were reduced in Auschwitz too.

Seriously, correlation is not causality. Alec points out that attempts at repetition have all failed. Maybe 5 years of tooth-gnashing rage toward a military occupation by a despotic power are the secret of better heart health.

I am only responding to the question as posted. I do not know the documentary, nor have I accessed background material. As reported, the Norway story is a classic anecdote. There is not enough information to make a trustworthy connection, even if one did exist.

I will look at Minger's notes and recommend that you do as well.

CICO Suave · Answer 5 · 2012-08-24 05:40:52Z UTC

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Sporks over EVERYTHING...

answered Aug 24 at 5:40

CICO Suave
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Forks over knives question

5 Answers