Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

Question

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Tim Ferriss, of 4 hr work week fame, just launched his trailer for the 4 hr body. http://www.fourhourbody.com/

He's jumped on the paleo train after a stint as a vegetarian. Robb Wolf has written for his blog previously, but some of the concepts in his book are foreign to me. Tim is very aware of higher fat intake, grass-fed concepts and lights-out concepts,

How to prevent fat gain while bingeing
How to increase fat loss 300% with a few bags of ice
How to sleep 2 hours a day and feel fully rested
How to add 150lbs to your lifts in 6 mo.
How to gain 34lbs of muscle in 38 days on 4 hrs of gym time

I know I'm going to eventually have to buy the book to figure this stuff out, but I'm wondering if anyone would like to speculate, especially on the ice/fat-loss connection and the 2hr sleep part?

edited Dec 3 2010 at 16:11

gilliebean♦
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asked Dec 2 2010 at 14:37

frankifries
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I wish I could make some good money by taking people on a ride.. – Ivan Dec 13 2010 at 6:31

I call complete BS on the last one, you'd be lucky to put in 15lb in a YEAR working your ass off. – sarah-ann Dec 13 2010 at 19:07

sarah-ann: it's possible for young, healthy males to put on 30-40 lbs. of bodyweight in 6-8 months. Not all of it will be muscle, but 15-25 lbs. of it will be. And there are examples of hard-working individuals who have experienced bigger gains in shorter amounts of time, too. – JJ Dec 16 2010 at 16:37

@Sarah, I put on 20lbs of lean muscle and still visible abs in just 2-3 months, not working overly hard(31yrs old). – Stephen-Aegis Dec 25 2010 at 1:57

I did not use his method however.Mine was tubers after exhaustive workouts. I may "test" his method to see if I can pack some more on, his sounds alot like BBS repackaged tho. – Stephen-Aegis Dec 25 2010 at 2:01

JJ · Accepted Answer · 2010-12-14 20:14:33Z UTC

I'm all for remarkable claims. If you had told me 2 years ago that not eating wheat could literally cure certain seasonal allergies, I would have thought you were crazy.

That said, I think Ferriss is very good at what he does, which is marketing.

I'm sure he approaches his training intelligently, from what I've read on his blog. But, I doubt that many people are going to be able to replicate his results consistently.

(Except for the add 150 lbs. to your lifts part -- that should be possible for any novice [and most dedicated intermediates], depending on the lift. Also, as JakeA said, I'm guessing the 2-hour sleep thing is a polyphasic sleep cycle -- which can work in the short run but is very difficult to maintain in the long run.)

I would be pleasantly surprised to be proven wrong here.

In particular, his "34 lbs. of muscle" claim seems to me outrageous, overblown, and gimmicky. He implies on the blog that he went from 146 to 180 lbs.

First of all, he used to weigh around 187-190, and was pretty well muscled. It is much, much easier to re-gain muscle quickly than it is to gain muscle quickly. If you've been 190 previously, it's not that hard to re-gain weight up to ~180.

Second, he is no stranger to cutting weight for fights, seeing as how he once cut 28 lbs. in 18 hours (or claimed to, but I have no reason to doubt him on this one). So, is it possible that Tim dehydrated himself somewhat before his first weigh-in to seem even more puny than he was? I don't mean to make an explicit accusation here, but I wouldn't put it past Ferriss, who is an expert marketer. (If he explicitly denies using tactics of this sort, I'll be happy to retract my speculation.)

Note that I have fewer problems accepting his "on 4 hours of gym time" claim. If that worked for him, great. What really irks me is that he is marketing his book on the idea that he gained an outrageous amount of muscle in a short amount of time, and that anyone else could hope to replicate his results.

I haven't read the book and have no plans to, so take all that with a grain of salt. I don't mean to dismiss any of the information in the book, but I do mean to say that the marketing strikes me as both brilliant and sketchy.

EDIT: added phrase in brackets

EDIT 2: Dec. 13, 2010: I just read his sample chapter and am definitely interested in reading the book now, so I take back what I said about having no plans to read the book. Two main reasons for my interest:

It may turn up some useful lifehacks related to fitness/wellness. Ferriss has a knack for finding them.
It may turn up some interesting anecdotes about what kinds of achievements are possible in certain individuals, which I find inspiring and motivating. In some cases, those achievements will be attainable for me, too (to some extent).

I still have a problem with selling the book as "I gained 34 lbs. on 4 hours, and YOU CAN, TOO!" I stand by my claim that it is very unlikely that will be replicated unless you are regaining previously lost muscle (and possibly do some dehydration for the "before" measurement).

EDIT 3: Dec. 14. I just read Chris Masterjohn's review of the book and am further going to eat my words. I get the impression that the content of the book is going to be better than the gimmicky marketing. (E.g., the cover implies an extreme form of polyphasic sleep, but Ferriss actually recommends a more moderate approach in the book). I guess that's what I get for trying to comment on a book I haven't actually read.

Eric · Answer 2 · 2010-12-13 05:03:47Z UTC

I've read the book, and although Tim buys into some of the ideas espoused by the likes of Taubes, Guyanet, Wolf, et al -- Tim is absolutely not paleo. Throughout the book he promotes beans, legumes, and whole grains as staples in his "slow carb" diet.

While I do have a decent amount of respect for Tim as a blogger, his first book didn't do anything for me and neither did this. Lots of half-baked ideas presented in an extremely scatterbrained way, fancied up with just the right language to make you think you're reading something that will give you an "edge." There are certainly some nuggets buried within and Tim has done a solid amount of research, but as a whole I wouldn't recommend the book to anyone.

Mike · Answer 3 · 2010-12-02 16:33:08Z UTC

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This Tim Ferris guy is a sensationalist. I wouldn't buy anything from him. He is clearly hypomanic.

answered Dec 2 2010 at 16:33

Mike
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Yea, Im seeing evidence of that as well. Whatever sells, I guess. – frankifries Dec 2 2010 at 16:37

Yes, the post on how to get from 140 to 190lbs in a few weeks was enough for me that his main motivation is making money. – maddy Dec 3 2010 at 1:56

JakeA · Answer 4 · 2010-12-02 15:29:47Z UTC

It is known that people can adjust to taking periodic naps throughout the day in order to have more time awake. I think that's what the 2 hour sleep part is about. Check out this wikipedia article on polyphasic sleep: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphasic_sleep#Scheduled_napping_to_achieve_more_time_awake

Nico · Answer 5 · 2010-12-15 00:12:56Z UTC

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I have no idea why this guy inspires so much vitriol. Listening to the Robb Wolf interview, and reading the Wired interview, he strikes me as a very smart guy who's doing real self-experimentation, and has learned some surprising things in the process. It doesn't strike me as outrageous that, with tinkering and careful self-monitoring, you could find small tweaks that have large effects.

Edit: I've purchased the ebook. I'll let you know what I think (if anyone cares).

edited Dec 15 2010 at 0:12

answered Dec 15 2010 at 0:03

Nico
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I think he comes off as arrogant on the web, but when I've heard him talk, he doesn't. I'm currently reading the book (Chris Masterjohn's review got me interested), and he comes off as a data freak and experimenter. I'm a data freak and experimenter myself, so I'm really enjoying the book. – Nicole Dec 15 2010 at 18:04

Could you write a quick review when you're done? I looked at it in the bookstore and to me it seemed to be a combo of Low Carb, Stronglifts, and a chunk of StevePavlina but with Tim's own take on each of these websites ideas. Most of his sleep, sex, time management tips have all been covered before by Steve Pavlina and the diet and weight lifting ideas have been covered on the Starting Strength Wiki and Stronglifts forum. Someone on Tim's own website tried to replicate his Colorado Experiment with very minimal success. Oh, I'd also add Lifehacker.org. It could be a great book, I don't know – Geoff Dec 15 2010 at 18:21

Bryan · Answer 6 · 2010-12-04 12:17:53Z UTC

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The end result is that the Paleo diet will get even more exposure, which is good for all of us in the end. More doctors who are paleo friendly, more sources of paleo-friendly foods. Maybe even some cities could have a paleo restaurant or two. Not to mention that we won't be thought of as crazies as this becomes more mainstream, and the people around us will be living longer with less health problems.

So, it's good that a marketing genius is going to popularize Paleo concepts. Let's hope he specifically mentions the term "Paleo" in the book though.

I like to think I helped influence his decision. I sent him some emails about how the diet cured my acne and now he's sending me a free copy of the new book.

answered Dec 4 2010 at 12:17

Bryan
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	NICE Bryan! I hope he does mention Paleo. – frankifries Dec 6 2010 at 14:25
	His eating plan really isn't paleo; it's very heavy on legumes. And then there's that anything-goes cheat day. I'd love to drop a few pounds quickly, but my health (therefore no legumes and trying very hard not to cheat!) is most important to me. I'm a bit concerned that Paleo or at least Robb Wolf will be associated with him because of the interview on the Paleo Solution, because it's really not a Paleo eating plan...most people won't take the time to figure out the difference, even though TF doesn't call his eating plan Paleo. You just know he's going to publish a Slow Carb diet book... – Suzanna Jan 18 2011 at 3:11
	He mentions being on a cyclic-ketogenic diet, and mentions the Paleo diet. Also, in a Nerdist Podcast interview he mentions upping meat and veggies to the Slow-Carb diet for those that don't want to do legumes. Sounds pretty Paleo to me. As rightly previously mentioned he is a marketing mastermind. So part of his of rationale for his Slow-Carb diet is more from a realistic approach. He understands people and knows many will have a hard time sticking to a strict Paleo diet; many people end up quitting. My guess for legumes is financial/variety reasons. Saturday cheat-days can go a long way. – henrydrn Apr 24 2011 at 4:00

Gone · Answer 7 · 2010-12-06 11:45:40Z UTC

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How to produce 15-minute female orgasms

Seriously? This selling point is so utterly, tragically pathetic I can't even find a word for it. On so many levels. Seriously.

I am unable to understand what happens in the minds of people who write stuff like that.

And on top of that I am pretty sure Tim is not able to give me a female orgasm. Not to mention 15 minutes.

answered Dec 6 2010 at 11:45

Gone
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Maybe I'm just pathetic, but that strikes me as something worth striving for. – Nico Dec 14 2010 at 23:32

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@Nico: Each to his own. I find it very strange and disconnected to turn to a book for advice on something so individual, intimate and personal as sex. To me, that's as if I would ask you what my favourite color should be. – Gone Dec 15 2010 at 8:36

Felix- I mean, I understand that some people find that sort of thing to be too personal and intimate to talk about openly or publish a book about it. But I feel perfectly comfortable talking about it, and, dare I say, we might be a little happier if people were more willing to talk about it. But I certainly respect people's boundaries. I'm not quite sure why it's pathetic if others have other sets of bounderies, so long as they're not hurting anyone. – Nico Dec 15 2010 at 8:54

@Nico: I'm not talking about boundaries at all and neither about feeling comfortable talking about it. I think we're on the same page when it comes to that. The orgasm-claim might be smart from a marketing point of view. But it implies that people all have the same desires, feelings and priorities. Which simply is not true. How should Mr Ferriss, who I am sure is a nice and smart person, know better how to make a person "happier" than he/she him-/herself? And how would he know that a 15-minute-orgasm is even what someone is striving for? It is this distorted image of sexuality that saddens me. – Gone Dec 15 2010 at 10:24

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I know because of that chapter, I won't be able to give this to my parents or anything. Eeeewww. Don't want to think about that. – Bread-Eating Beelzebub Dec 16 2010 at 22:24

show 4 more comments

hemanvt · Answer 8 · 2010-12-15 19:34:12Z UTC

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Were any of you surprised that Robb or Andy didn't challenge him on some of his philosophies? They both are always slamming the all day scheduled binge and we all know his stance of legumes?

answered Dec 15 2010 at 19:34

hemanvt
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Yes. That was the softest interview ever. They lost some credibility with me then. Especially with the special offer at the end. I keep hoping that none of the people I recommend the Paleo Solution to chose that particular episode to listen to start with...I think it would be very confusing for someone new to Paleo eating. – Suzanna Jan 18 2011 at 3:26

stephthegeek · Answer 9 · 2010-12-15 21:51:32Z UTC

FYI he often attends the Quantified Self meetups in the SF Bay area and will be at the January meetup: http://quantifiedself.com/

He's kind of an extreme figure and an amazing marketer, but a very smart guy and I certainly think he's done a lot of good things for promoting the data-driven/self-experimentation movement. Like most brilliant but extreme figures, use him as an inspiration and intriguing source of information that often challenges you, but stick with what makes sense for you too!

hemanvt · Answer 10 · 2010-12-14 18:46:08Z UTC

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Has anyone listened to Robb Wolf's podcast this week? Tim is interviewed. Not sure I learned much, but he does state that he is mostly paleo except for an occassional legume and his cheat day.

answered Dec 14 2010 at 18:46

hemanvt
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	His weight loss diet has legumes as a main part though you could just do veg. Simple and would work since most diets are about appetite, insulin and sugar control. Also, I'm sure he's read this post with many smiles. Here's the diet: fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2007/04/06/… – sean Dec 14 2010 at 20:21
	His diet without the legumes is just a more heavily restricted version of Atkins with a cheat day once a week. I have to say that's pretty unappealing to me, though I don't know about the rest of y'all. – Nicole Dec 15 2010 at 18:05

dinis · Answer 11 · 2010-12-15 20:18:40Z UTC

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I attended the launch party for the book in NYC.. was good times.. crowded and crazy fun! Pic with Tim here.. http://bit.ly/hbKmlc

answered Dec 15 2010 at 20:18

dinis
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Robert Dawson · Answer 12 · 2010-12-25 00:26:19Z UTC

So having tried the 15 minute orgasm, as a man, I have found there to be quite a bit of sensation available to me throughout the experience that I had never encountered before. Really subtle electricity-type feelings in my chest and hands, for example that feel amazing. My partner is also extremely pleased with the chapter, as you might surmise... As far as the orgasm thing is concerned, the way I understand i being "in orgasm" means feeling sexual sensation in your body, suble or gross. The climax just sounds like part of the cycle. If you're curious about more, here's a link to a video I bought that fills in the blanks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVXkpvgMJPI

4 hour body--new Tim Ferriss book

12 Answers